InfestLithium

Warning: If you have not done the Easter Egg for Origins or do not want to know the ending just yet, avoid this thread as much as you can. We have finally uncovered the beginning to the ending, and the finale of what we have begun. The final cutscene - much to many people's dismay - revealed a little too much of a horrific condition that the Zombies we've come to understand and live through is all but a child's game...or is it? I'm here, friendos, to show us how wrong we've been to turn the other cheek. Let's begin with understanding the paradox of Origins. The Paradoxical Circumstance In the winter of 1918, two German scientists by the names of Doctor Ludvig Maxis and Doctor Edward Richtofen brought their research and team - Group 935 - to mine in an ancient cavern somewhere in Northen France. Their result after months of research resulted in an Ancient Evil awakening as the element 115 was uncovered. Soon, their work led to their own destruction. Allied forced reared, with plans to capture the leading scientists. What they soon discovered was a battlefield full of giant patrolling robots, German/Ancient zombies, and a bloody Richtofen that had recently performed a lobotomy on what was Doctor Ludvig Maxis. The unlikely group of soldiers teamed up to fight off the hordes while listening to the ominous voice of a young girl calling herself Samantha. With their help, the Allies and the German freed her from Agartha and lived happily ever after. Well guess what? It did happen. But at the same time, it never truly occurred. How could this be you say? Simple - it's a paradox. Maxis says this quote right as you release him into the light. We'll go into more discussion about that event, but let's focus on what he just said. The four 'heroes' just freed Samantha from what she called Agartha. The paradox Maxis speaks of is something more than just the cutscene. For the moment, ignore the cutscene. Here is the pure definition of a paradox. par·a·dox noun \ˈper-ə-ˌdäks, ˈpa-rə-\ Definition of PARADOX 1: a tenet contrary to received opinion 2 a : a statement that is seemingly contradictory or opposed to common sense and yet is perhaps true b : a self-contradictory statement that at first seems true c : an argument that apparently derives self-contradictory conclusions by valid deduction from acceptable premises 3: one (as a person, situation, or action) having seemingly contradictory qualities or phases In other words, a paradox happens when there is some form of opposite that juxtaposes the original idea. It is against what what originally supposed to function as. The paradox we see in Origins is not the cutscene; it's not Zombies being a child's game or Samantha playing with a boy named Eddie (who we would probably jump to conclusion saying it's Edward Richtofen). The paradox is Samantha. Samantha: The Paradox of Time and Space Can't wrap your head around it yet? Allow me to elaborate a bit more. The paradox IS Samantha in Origins, but it goes a bit deeper than that. We know that when we play Origins, Samantha tells us she is trapped and attempted to reach her father for help on escaping. Alas, he succumbed to the illness from 115 and was soon "removed" from himself entirely. The best way I can explain what occurs afterwards is through a little table. Do you see what happened? Pre-Easter Egg, Origins was true to some extent. Samantha inserting herself into a timeline she did not even exist in greatly displaced the era, thus creating what is known as a time distortion. This concept is very much similar - if not, exact - to what element 115 is capable of. The abilities and magnitude of 115 through the distortion unbalanced everything in time. The best way to explain the wonders of 115-time/space relationships is in MMX's thread here: viewtopic.php?f=155&t=35943 115 has the unnatural ability to pluck objects and references from certain timelines and insert them into areas where they may not really belong. If they truly should not belong somewhere, you will end up with something like this: The perk machines in Mob of the Dead are distorted because they do not belong there. Not on a larger spectrum, imagine how much more destruction this might cause...hint hint, it's what Origins is and is not. The table directly shows what happened before freeing Samantha, and what happened after freeing Samantha. But how is this possible? Look back at Maxis' quote. "...the paradox must be resolved" is not implying that the very simple act of freeing Samantha is the paradox. Rather, Samantha intervening in a timeline she is not meant to be in is the cause. Releasing her from Agartha only told revealed to us that there was indeed a paradox within Origins. Now this is where things get tricky. How do we know that Origins is false prior to the Easter Egg and that Samantha is the reason behind this problem? The key is her. The why to the question is the Crazy Place, a.k.a. Agartha. The Realm of Agartha - The Crazy Place Ahhh, the magical land of Agartha. The perfect hotspot for Zombie discussions and one of the most-desired locations to fight off zombies in. Apparently, our dear little Samantha is trapped somewhere in there and asks our four heroes to free her. But it seems that even prior to her, a certain German had a much similar route to take. Richtofen knew very well about the research going into the study of Agartha. This, of course, was due to Ludvig Maxis' work as he himself was following the steps which Samantha told him. To further prove this fairly-odd paradox of Samantha's intrusion in Origins, even Maxis does not recollect knowing her existence. You might be asking the computer screen "what do these quotes have to do with the Crazy Place being a part of Agartha"? Allow me to explain a bit further into this. The Crazy Place is a realm that does not follow the same essence of our Earthly dimensions. It can travel through space and time. It is not linear in our timeline as a result. This ancient realm is accessed by using a gramophone to play what Samantha calls "songs of the ancients" which actually levitates stones nearby to open a portal to the realm. While there are four portals known to exists, they all lead to the same realm with different "entrances". In it, four pillars stand - one for fire, one for lightning, one for wind, and one for frost. They aren't perfect elemental attributes for Earth (where it's just water, fire, earth, and air); however, they are the correct attributes for the Crazy Place. It's also important to note that the only zombies that spawn here are carnivorous (kudos to MMX for pointing that out) Ancient Agarthans. Note the Black Sun symbols on their faces and chestplates. The Black Sun symbol - mistaken for a black swastika - is common to many of us hardcore slayers. A short excerpt from Rissole's Nazis, Vril, Thule, Die Glocke, Illuminati and More contains most of the information regarding the relations of the Black Sun to said ancient groups. "The symbol common to the Vril Society, the Thule Society and the Nazi Movement was the black swastika. The swastika is a sun symbol. The black swastika represents the Black Sun. The Sufis believe in a fourth dimension, a "Hidden World" (Rumi Mathnavi, quoted in Idries Shah: The Sufis, New York 1964). This common belief was one of the reasons for the early contacts established by Thule Society members with Sufi and Dervish organisations in Turkey in the early decades of the 20th century. The Thule/Vril Society held that the Hidden World actually exists and is populated by highly advanced beings of Aryan origin. It was the Nazi goal to cooperate with these beings, obtain from them occult knowledge and create a race of supermen of Aryan stock to exterminate all inferior races and take over the world. This Hidden World is illuminated by a pallid Black Sun which gives off energetic radiations in the form of VRIL. Whoever possesses VRIL controls the world. The Nazis believed that VRIL could be harnessed for the purposes of greatly enhancing the human race physically and mentally, and could also be used in the manufacture of advanced weaponry." While we're no longer dealing with the Nazis or Illuminati in this era, what we can take from this is that Vril has been around longer than we think as well as those who are capable of utilizing the energy. All of these advances races - whether extraterrestrial or not - are considered Agarthans. Here is a short excerpt from a website explaining the told legends of the Old Race. http://www.tokenrock.com/explain-Agartha-195.html It doesn't need to be said that the Agarthans could not take others as part of their own. When we look at one of these ancient zombies, can you tell that they are pretty humanoid for the most part? These kinds of zombies only spawn when either in the Crazy Place or activating 115 conversion generators. To better understand the relationship between the realm and the real world, let's take a look at some radio logs. Now if that doesn't satisfy you to believe that these ancient zombies can pop out virtually anywhere, let's look at another radio log: The keyword here is "portals". You will see a glowing, white hole in the ground where the ancient zombies jump in from. If you go into the Crazy Place, however, they jump down from the ceilings/megaliths rather than portals. Therefore, these zombies that "pop out" on Earth are actually jumping through portals from the Crazy Place. To assume that the ancient zombies are actually ancient Agarthan zombies and that they "originate" from the Crazy Place, we can fairly assume that the Crazy Place is at least a component/subsidiary of Agartha. We've learned many instances in Origins now, and how things are interceding one another. But I can tell that you're not satisfied yet. Now what if I told you something that would ultimately solve the paradox? This is now the time for Maxis to join us. The Light From Above This is it. Literally, this is the answer to the paradox. A light? Some clouds? A sky? No no no, think a bit harder. Once you free Samantha from Agartha (in our little eyes, a different level higher than the Crazy Place), the sky has opened up. Here, it gets a bit tricky. How can the same sky that comes from the outside we were at when above ground suddenly appear overhead in a realm that is supposedly deep within the Earth? The answer is actually more simple than you think. This is the gateway to Agartha. Pick up that jaw off the ground! I need to show some proof before I can make such a ludicrous claim, correct? The Crazy Place is a different realm of time and space. We can travel to and from it without disturbing it...or so we though. The only way to open this gateway is by placing down the ancient staffs (well, replicas really) and releasing the energy from within the Agarthan zombies. I theorize that the energy released from them is actually the same energy we run unto several times through the story of Zombies - Vril. With the power of the staffs and essence of Vril, Agartha is opened up before our very eyes. This is where we release the Maxis Drone into the air. We may have released Samantha, but now he must go to her. But how does going into the depths of Agartha mean anything if we freed her from that realm? What many of us missed is that Maxis never said anything else about Agartha. Rather, he said "I must go to her now". The only way he can do that is if the paradox is solved. So that leads us to the final conclusion: what happens as Maxis enters the gateway, and how exactly does he solve it? Believe what you can out of what I am going to say. The gateway to Agartha...is the teleporter. Keep in mind that before you can actually end Origins, you must access the teleporter in the middle of the Crazy Place. This teleporter can fully travel through time and space regardless of where the next set point is going to be. That new point was Origins. Did you see what happened? You just became conflicted with the paradox. Samantha's intervention in the Origins we know greatly disturbed the space-time continuum in Zombies, causing everything in that point in history to shift and awaken the Ancient Evil. Once we released Samantha from her dimensional prison, we then used the gateway to Agartha to go into a time where Samantha was not present - that time being the true Origins. Look back at the table a good number of scrolls ago. The Origins we are now present in post-Easter Egg is what actually happened in history. That means there weren't any zombies or giant robots or ancient evils or body-less Maxis or anything. It was just a research operation that discovered element 115 for the first time in recorded Zombie history. We re-wrote the past that was altered from the original. That, my dear friendos, is the solution to the paradox.

I will definitely try this when possible. Getting set up by Round 10? I'm lucky if I can get the Bracers by Round 15. Kudos to such a good guide, friendo!

It might be an unlucky dig; everyone has come up with Golden Shovels and Golden Helmets in different dig amounts.

Heyo friendo, welcome to the community! You'll find tons of awesome slayers that are great at communication, so don't you worry about that. Enjoy your stay, and slay on! :)

Funny how we all jumped he gun saying that he body was Maxis and ye we still were shocked to realize that it was Maxis. To be honest though, I'm not sure what the point of re-stating it is for. If you're trying to emphasize that he's been body-less all along, then it's kinda jumping too far without backtracking a bit. Do we know his figure during Der Riese? We just know that from the possibly factual beginning to the certain end, he was not in a human body.

Good observation! Maxis does do a good deal of his research in Kino, so it's definitely an interesting connection there. I would understand that the Faust posters and such would be placed before Origins' cutscene, as well as a few additional placements (bed near door versus in back, extra shelves/toys). Could it be that the room - when teleporting in Kino der Toten - is destroyed after the sirens? Perhaps even immediately if you consider the possibilities.

Two words: better internet. If you're still trying to work through dial-up connections in the Stone Age, you may want to test your connection speeds. http://www.speedtest.net/ This is actually a really handy tool for determining how well your internet is treating you. The problem I have sometimes is playing with a host who essentially has crap connection so the rest of us are fluttering around with 2-3 bars. If you are having hardware issues like freezing and such, invest in a cooler for your console or clear unnecessary data that might be building up.

If you can determine where prior to Kino der Toten, perhaps then it can fully be a cycle. A siren blares, the kids must go into the basement, and then what?

Well if you posted a link to your video/proof, that'd be swell as well. ;)

Haha, oh man looking back on this is a great deal of teammwork even for a minor encryption. Talk about Origins, huh?

Nightmare on Moon. I have a dirty little habit of getting my testosterone level a little too high during that song.

I don't ever think Treyarch would release all the weapons ever in one map just for giggles. The closest you'll have to a very wide arsenal is Origins.

Welcome back to the community, friendo! I feel your stress about the whole clan situation. There are some clans that do it for the fun, but others work you to the bone as if it's an actual job with no pay. That's the life of FPS gamers I suppose. Glad to see you back; hope you continue enjoying your stay!

Treyarch went after grabbing a larger audience with innovative concepts for each mode. Think about it. Tranzit introduced a new way of mobilizing across the map with little to no worry and gave us the ability to store our points and guns for later fun. Did I mention that we actually have buildables now? Die Rise brought a totally different landscape that we're not used to seeing - vertical structures. It forces us to watch our every move while staying close to our teammates. Elevators are the new way of moving through the map and really test our patience levels. Mob of the Dead gave us the horror vibe we've so longed for since the days of Verruckt. Take into consideration the Afterlife mode with the plane and smaller Easter Eggs for better weapons. Buried tested the waters with an innovative AI that is a huge benefit for us. They shifted away from training areas and brought back the good ol' camp fests that we haven't truly seen since Der Riese. A new powerful weapon and challenge (mansion) makes it even more entertaining to survive. Origins hit all the right spots. New bosses, new terrain, new weapons, new mobile objects, new obstacles, new everything. I wouldn't consider any less of a Black Ops II finale. Whether the Campaign or Zombies team made certain maps, they are all worthy of it. I think the main problem the Zombies team has is using the same perspective to make maps similar to ones we keep paying homage to because we're so stuck in the past instead of the future. The Campaign Team, however, lends their hand in producing maps [there is no evidence they solely create a map since they have to do things through the Zombies squad anyways]. I like to see it this way: the Zombies Team are the storywriters, and the Campaign Team are the artists. Both captivate us in different ways. Now if they did half-and-half on a map, it would definitely benefit Treyarch in the long run.

I attempted to dive out of a giant's way thinking I could make it. Needless to say, I totally missed the open area and got totally crushed.

How do the zombies have inner fears when they are already the undead? What more would they have to lose considering that they never truly die? Although I must say that your idea could be exactly how the controllers taunt the characters who can hear them.

I prefer not to use mics when not needed. I know to some that defeats the purpose of playing Co-op Zombies, but I honestly get tired of someone screaming "revive me bro i haz staff" or somebody wanting to do the Easter Egg for the 400th time. You can play a great game yet still have good communication without mics. Leave a crawler for 5 minutes - if no one bothers to kill it, that usually tells you the team isn't ready just yet. Also, bear in mind some people use those God-awful Kinects.

It can be done both, since you can play alone in Custom Games as well.

To those who want to learn the fire torch step but aren't exactly wanting a guide to tell them: The code that is used is actually Ternary code. This system is nothing more than a decimal code that uses the numbers 0,1, and 2 to encrypt a particular number. The sets are always as follows: An open dot equals 0. A singly solid dot equals 1. A double solid dot equals 2. So let's say I have this image: How I'd do it is by splitting up the left and right side. On the left, I have a double solid set. I go to my numbers guide and find out that it equals 2. On the right, I have one solid dot. That set then equals 1. A little bit of brainpower and we now have the ternary code of that sequence: 21. The list of ternary numbers (based off dots) and their decimal counterparts (numbers the torches have on them) can be found on this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ternary_numeral_system Happy hunting, friendos! :)

You have to go outside the Tank Station in the mud pathway, where the tank would usually cool down at.

Back when Black Ops was still in fashion, I was fiddling around with a buddy on Kino der Toten when I activated the teleporter while he was coming through the aisle way. He went down due to zombies, yet I already hit the teleporter. Right as it started to ready my teleportation, I managed to whip out my Krauss Refibrillator and take a single shot at him. I didn't realize I got revived him until I got up in the projection room. Haven't gotten a shot like that since. :P

This map had proven to be a love/hate relationship. Great map and concept with tons of ideas, but the problem is no longer bad ideas more so than it is overwhelming yourself. Once you start playing this map frequently, you begin getting the basics out of the way and focus on what you deem necessary to survive. While it may not be much help to you, here's what I try to do in order to prevent most of what you stated (which are all very valid points friendo): [*:13f1px74]Agarthan Zombies are horrible when it comes to keeping them away from generators. The good thing though is that they usually will not attack you when they destroy the generators. I always keep a couple Claymores near every Generator that I feel is absolutely vital for survival so they can be taken down much quicker. [*:13f1px74]Knowing what you need and do not need is essential, especially for certain weapons/buildables. For instance, I don't really need a Maxis Drone in Solo so I can scratch that off my list. I typically wield the Staff of Wind wherever I go and perhaps the Staff of Fire if I really feel like having it. Each giant takes about 3 minutes to get through and grab their part. Since I have to do all the running around, I try to find out what foot it is as soon as possible. Otherwise, it only takes about 15 minutes max to finish the wild goose chase. [*:13f1px74]I can agree with you wholly about the Lightning Strike Monkey Bombs. It's honestly not worth it if you don't want to do the Easter Egg; it's still a pain in the ass. [*:13f1px74]It beats have a four-player Easter Egg. They could have easily done something along the lines of Moon, where half of it could be done on Solo and the rest in Co-op. Just imagine how that'd go. [*:13f1px74]The Staffs aren't meant to be overpowered. When upgraded, their charged shots deal enough damage to take down Panzer Soldats. Even the Staff of Ice upgraded can wipe the floor pretty easily. Also bear in mind that we're given a larger arsenal than before to give us the ulterior edge. I think Treyarch's goal was to implement a map that didn't rely on one Wonderweapon to blaze through the high rounds. Well played, Treyarch. [*:13f1px74]The Golden Helmet is only good for those "oh shi-" moments. Even with it obtained, I still avoid running underneath the robots like it's a plague. By the time you evne recover or switch out a horde-clearing weapon, you're pretty much covered head to toe in zombies.

I like everything. People kept complaining about not having new obstacles, then they complained for having instances that made the game too easy. So now we have things that make the game challenging and not impossible with a larger arsenal and inventory yet people insist on still complaining. The only thing that bothers me is the spawn glitches, but that's it. I absolutely love this map.

The ability to choose this song is awesome. Even if you activate Shepherd of Fire in Origins, I'd still rather pick Archangel.

As plausible at that seems at this point, it's difficult to state it as a fact. There are many theories as to how this works out. To say none of them existed at all is kinda tossing the table over a bit too hard. For all we know, it could be a huge metaphor. It could be telling us the events in Origins didn't happen yet gives us a factual backstory of how things worked out in Zombies. It could even be Origins never truly happening yet everything else did. I admit that part of me just wants to say that Zombies is nothing but an imaginary story that we were given access to actually live out, and those events may come to life in the future of the cutscene. But there is a ridiculously large piece of the puzzle that's still not being explained here.