aegisknight
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you left Dead Ops out of your ranking system, but I have some thoughts on its difficulty. It is simultaneously the easiest and one of the hardest maps in the game. The first ten rounds are excessively simple; I know for a fact that you can get through round 1 without even touching the controller. From there its a pretty simple "point and shoot" game, very simple to grasp. But as it goes on, the learning curve gets ever steeper, which doesn't really happen with any of the other maps, with perhaps the exception of Nacht der Untoten. New rounds radically change the layout of where you are playing, so you can't adopt one strategy and stick to it for extended periods of time. The lifes system penalizes the entire team for individual failures, making it much more difficult for one player to "clutch" a round with teammates who go down. The whole thing is a mess, but it only gets there by creeping up on you.
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I hear many people complain about how the Thief is the most annoying "boss" character, almost universally reviled. Well, I'm here to tell you to worry not and love the man! Think about it: the round is a pure break. You don't have to do anything, just sacrifice one gun. And you get a max ammo for your efforts! Sure, in the past this would be annoying because you'd lose one of your super awesome box weapons that you can't just go out and get again, but with the addition of Mule Kick on every map, this is no longer a concern. Now, pick up mule kick and keep your two kick-ass weapons, then fill the last slot with a wall weapon. Pack a punch it even, its all good! Then when the thief comes, just run around the War Room flipping the switches for pack a punch, let the thief take your 3rd wall weapon, then politely ignore him. He will run around in circles in the basement while you calmly pick up your wall weapon again, pack a punch it if you're feeling so inclined, then grab your max ammo. Nobody to kill, no damage done, everybody's happy! Its a free round that you can't die in unless you kill yourself, a welcome breather not found anywhere else except Dead Ops. Love the thief! He is your friend!
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A treatise on the first 10 rounds
aegisknight replied to aegisknight's topic in General Zombies Discussion
well I didn't even think that needed mentioning -
A treatise on the first 10 rounds
aegisknight replied to aegisknight's topic in General Zombies Discussion
then I suppose the differences would depend on teammates. Ascension is a weird map to consider because its so easy, maintaining the distance and getting the kills with slashes on either weapon is abnormally simple. -
A treatise on the first 10 rounds
aegisknight replied to aegisknight's topic in General Zombies Discussion
The money spent on ammo adds up to the gun you buy to replace the M-14, not the sickle. The sickle is bought with the extra points you get from using it through round 15. True, you can go down more often, but thats what juggernog is for. I have gone down maybe twice in about 150 games due to slashing with 'nog, which are odds I'm pretty happy with. And you're right, there is more to it than math. The main component I've noticed between myself and my teammates when I get the knife or sickle is that my kill rate goes up to almost twice theirs once I buy it, simply because I can kill more faster. I usually get around 1/3 of the kills between rounds 7 and 16 during a 4 player game just because I can run around and knife everything I see much faster than anyone can shoot carefully to maximize points. Now, with all that said, I am revising my statements both in light of what you are saying and with what I've experienced in all my games. Buying the M-14 route is more effective on Ascension and Moon, all other maps I personally do buy the MP40 or AK-74u. However, I do continue to purchase the special knives on all maps, except Der Reise. I believe I was thinking mainly of my Ascension behaviors when writing the guide, so that puts the main section, and Ascension footnote, in need of some revision. -
A treatise on the first 10 rounds
aegisknight replied to aegisknight's topic in General Zombies Discussion
You can stack a couple in the legs, but not as many and not as easily. And it takes more time. the 3 in the third is again wasting ammo and therefore points. You elevate your chance of a perk drop yes, but it is just as likely a nuke or double points as max ammo. Even if it is max ammo, the points gained from your method isn't especially manageable in the long term, especially if you're choosing to move quickly. If you are playing with randoms, its impossible. -
A treatise on the first 10 rounds
aegisknight replied to aegisknight's topic in General Zombies Discussion
The only map where I have had a power problem that early is FIVE, which is a bit different for a number of reasons. You might have to buy a gun over that, but like I said, it pays for itself almost immediately. Lets try the math again. The M-14 costs 500 less than an SMG, so a 500 point benefit right off the bat. While with the SMG you can use your described method for 2 or 3 rounds after round 8, it is not sustainable in the mid-term (through round 15 or so). So for 2 or 3 rounds you will be getting a net bonus of points, but afterwards you just can't continue to shoot bullets equal to rounds into each zombie, then knife. At round 10 you're looking at 10 shots per zombie, plus a knife, which costs not only time (several more seconds than a simple knife, plus reload times), but ammo as well. At round 10 you're looking at 10 shots per zombie; at best you're going to get 20 kills in this fashion before you need to buy ammo again. So you're dropping 500 points every 20 kills or less, adding up fast. Then consider that time wise, you cannot be knifing every zombie you shoot, with a net loss of at least 1/3 of zombies to bullets fired rather than knives. By round 15, a player good at the knife-shot combo will have killed less than 5% accidentally with bullets, 95 with successful slashes. Your loss rate goes up to about half. Between rounds 7 and 15 in a 4 player game there will be a total of 826 zombies spawned. It can be assumed that you will get 1/4 of them, or 207 (although I have always had more than my fair share when using the knife, since you simply go through each zombie faster, moving onto the next at a higher rate). If we look at the rate of loss, you have 100 zombies giving sub-optimal points, about 2/3 points per those zombies. My method gives about 10 at 2/3. At an average of 150 points per zombie at max, I've got about 30k compared to your 25k. Your argument about points is hurt more by the fact that you're going to have to buy ammo 3 or 4 times, costing between 1500 and 2k for the same amount of time. So while you will have to switch out the M14 at some point, its a wash because you already had to spend twice the value of your gun on ammo for it, with no increase in points. Even if you get some max ammos, you're going to have to be spending on ammo at least twice, since your method just gobbles up a massive ton of ammo. -
A treatise on the first 10 rounds
aegisknight replied to aegisknight's topic in General Zombies Discussion
Buying the M14 is on the assumption that you're out of pistol ammo. Since you can use the x shots plus knife option, it pays for itself in about 10 kills. Purchasing the submachine gun costs 500 points more than the M14 with no tangible benefit in terms of point gain using your described method. By the time you would want to pick up an SMG using the maximum points route, you should already have purchased the sickle or bowie knife. I don't cover past round 10, but using the "special" knife, you can use any SMG (or box weapon if you decide to skip the SMG entirely, as I often do) with your described weapon through round 16 or so, netting an additional 5-6k over neglecting it. I outlined the flaws of this approach earlier in my guide. Your 8 shots to the leg cannot be "stacked" by shooting as many zombies at once as you can with fewer shots to the chest, by round 3 you would likely be out of ammo anyway. Check "The Math" section at the bottom of my explanations of rounds 1, 2, and 3 to see the exact rationale for avoiding your described method. While it does yield more points in round 1, it runs into the same problems in rounds 2 and 3 as the described "old" method. I'll have to try out your Atlantis suggestions, but those seem more of an approach for rounds 15-20 than 1-10. I'm also making a couple revisions to the guide regarding the map differences. -
While true, if you're good at running the AK-74u room this is twice as fast as the other methods after round 40. I have consistently been able to build up a full train, run them through the trap, then build up an entirely new train and run it through the same trap within 30 seconds. The route to run is pretty dicey, though. You can do the same thing with the other trap by running a little circle at the bottom of the ramp and running back through in time, but I have much less practice with it (and it seems inherently more dangerous for some reason)
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The first ten rounds of any map in zombies go basically the same, no matter how many people you are playing with. This is why its so boring; the game doesn't even really get going until round 11 or so. They are also the rounds that most players have the least problem with, a guide on the subject seems almost passe. This is not a strategy to survive. Nobody here needs that. This is an attempt to help my fellow players to thrive, to demonstrate they are a cut above the rest before the horses even leave the gate. These are not a set of rules, but a set of suggestions I have developed over my years of playing. Feel free to add your input, disregard points as you see fit, and personalize to your individual flair. These rounds are so ho-hum that lord knows they need as much style as they can get. With that in mind, lets begin. The current "gold standard" I have seen suggested over and over is to fire exactly 6 shots into a zombie at round 1, then knife him as he comes through the window to collect his tasty, tasty powerup. At round 2, 8 shots and a knife. Repeat for round 3. Hold up some windows, knife, collect some power-ups, eventually open a door, grab an SMG, and proceed to power. And that is all well and good, but you won't end up spectacularly rich, and it is rather dull. So how can we maximize our points-per-zombie beyond this strategy? Round One Forget 6 shots to the chest and knife. You are throwing points away. While it is rather pathetic, the m1911 does have piercing power. Line up 2 zombies before considering the trigger. To line up zombies, it requires an understanding of window mechanics. Kino der Toten has diverse windows, so I will use this as an example. Lining up is easy near the street window and under the stairs, where each zombie has a long path to walk before approaching, not so with the dark window or the top of the stairs. So with every window, there are 3 spots for zombies to walk up. These three don't line up, so for round 1 just let them build up at the window, then let them walk in, fire 4 shots into the closest when they are lined up, and knife him. If you get 3 zombies in a row, and fire very close, the single bullet will hit all three, netting you 30 points where you would normally have only gotten 10. After 4 shots, knife the first zombie and fire 2 into the second (assuming there is one behind him). Then knife him and the third. If you don't get a lineup, don't fire. Then repair exactly 4 barriers before the round is over (most applicable if you're in 4 player). So with math, you have 4 shots x 30 points (120), 2 shots x 20 points (40), and 3 stabs at 130 points (390). 550 points from 3 zombies, with 34 shots left. Using the 6 shot method, you have 18 shots at 10 points each (180) and three stabs (390), netting 570 points. 20 point boost is nice, but at the cost of 18 shots compared to 6. Even using the "old" strategy from here on out, you're at a loss of 120 points. Round 2 Shorter description for this one, so much easier. Just do the same as round 1, but with 8 shots followed by 4 shots, then knifing. The Math: You will get 4 or 5 zombies on average, so 8 shots x 30 points (240) + 3 sets of 4 shots at 20 points (3 x 4 x 20 = 240) and 4 stabs for 130 (520) is 1000 points. 4 zombies at 8 shots each with the other method yields 320, plus 4 stabs (520) is 840, combined for both rounds is 1550 (a 450 point boost for just 1 additional zombie), compared with just 1360 for the other method. Comparing bullets, my method has now consumed 26, while the other method has consumed 54. Since you only get 40 to start, its actual yield is even lower, while my method still has 14 rounds left to use as you see fit. Point totals: 500 + 1550 = 2050. Not bad to finish off round 2. Round 3 You see the method of the madness for the math involved and its advantages, so at round 3 things change. Assuming a max ammo, nuke, or insta-kill was dropped in a previous round, you can continue using the pistol to rack up point advantages over your peers (with good luck, I was once able to have juggernog and the bowie knife by the end of round 4 by carefully using every shot, and very lucky powerup drops), or you can make your first move. The safest option is to cooperate with a financially disadvantaged teammate to buy two doors (he gets the first, which is cheaper, you the second, because you're a nice guy) and picking up a mid-ranged SMG. If you go this route, simply aim for the head and skip to Round 5. The higher point yield comes from the second option, which is picking up the M14. One shot from the M14 works out to roughly 5 pistol shots when fired from the same range we have been discussing. So basically pick this up, and use it the same as you would a pistol. You will be skipping the SMG entirely, or else this is a waste. At round 3, fire 2 shots into the chest with a line-up, then slash. One additional shot for the next, then 2, then 1, down the row, followed by slashes. It is with this method that your point total will start to significantly soar above the previous method, and random players will wonder how the hell you have double their points so quickly. Round 4 M14 only: Now its 3 shots, followed by 2, then 3 again, with slashes on each. More points, more fun. If you're still in the spawn room, now is when you should consider moving to the next area or two. Rounds 5-8 At round 5, it is 4 shots with the M-14 followed by a slash for maximum points. However, trying to line up may jeopardize your survival, so I would no longer recommend it to intermediate players, and experts don't really need the point buffer. If you do feel the need to line up, you may as well go for headshots. During these rounds your objective is to turn on the power as soon as possible. There is no advantage, on ANY map, to not doing so. Gas crawlers may be annoying, but it takes more hits to down you than a runner, and they're slower to boot. For rounds 5-8, there are again 2 paths, one for safety and one for point buffers. Safety: turn on the power and buy juggernog immediately. Aim for head shots with whichever gun you happen to have chosen for maximum points, the M14 still has the advantage of being fairly good with this, and ammo conservation. The SMG is good for staying alive in either case during these early rounds. Points: Pick up the Bowie Knife or Sickle, go to town. Not only does it yield much more points per kill than any gun through round 10 (paying for itself if purchased at the beginning of round 8 or before), it is useful in removing crawlers through the 20's, and dealing with dogs/monkeys their first few spawns. For added effect, fire a few rounds of whatever gun you are holding into the zombie before slashing for a few more points. The bowie is useful in this fashion through round 15, just a few shots into a zombie and a slash yields serious dividends. Rounds 7-9 Aim for the head with your SMG, or slash with your stabber. Two acceptable paths for these rounds: 1. Using your points to buy doors approaching PaP, or 2. Using your points to buy perks I personally prefer perks, but if you're a Mustang and Sally player you'll want to Pack a Punch those bad boys as soon as possible. Excellent for long term survival, having them in your hands makes life much easier all around. Round 10 If you chose the max points route, now you will want to pick up some sort of SMG so you can fire one or two shots before stabbing. Continue picking up perks and opening doors to your destinations chosen during round 7/9. Note on the Box: Don't hit it. Just don't. There is no reason to bother with it until after round 10, doing so just means you're wasting time you could have been using laying the ground work for a great game to pick up a weapon that is either a waste of very precious points, or seriously over-powered for the resistance you will be facing this early. There is no advantage to hitting the box this early. Map Variances Things change depending on maps, so here we go. Nacht Der Untoten This guide is useless to you, good luck. Verruckt The M-14 route is not effective. I have not tested this seriously with either of the semi automatic rifles available, do so at your own risk. However, the powerful MP-40 and Thompson are easier accessed, so the safety route is preferred. Organize with your teammates to decide who is turning on the power, do not waste the other party's points unless you are opening to get to a perk you wish to acquire right away. Hitting the box is acceptable after acquiring juggernog, since the difficulty is much higher than other maps. Shi no Numa Ditto with the M-14 problem as Verruckt, open either door to acquire the Thompson right away (whichever way you chose is not important). Finding juggernog is a priority, so attempt to coordinate door openings to find it as soon as possible. Comm Room and Fishing Hut survival requires some skill but not too much, so hit the box at your own risk after acquiring juggernog. Der Reise Same M-14 problem, plus an additional door to reach an acceptable submachine gun compared to the previous maps. Team cooperation is necessary, but the acquisition of juggernog is simpler than some other maps, so that kind of evens out. Getting the Bowie Knife is less rewarding than Black Ops maps, but still worth it if your team agrees opening the back door early is acceptable. Kino Der Toten Simplest, all recommendations apply. Best approached from MP-40 room. From the MP-40 room to purchase the Bowie Knife is precisely 5500 points, 5000 even for juggernog. Plan accordingly. FIVE M-14 is highly recommended for survival in addition to points in the fairly early rounds. Don't be fooled by the 6 entrance points; zombies will only actually attempt to breach 4 of them until a door is opened (this remains true through round 5 at least, I have never had a coherent enough team to test beyond) so covering windows is simple. After going down the first elevator, you are again presented with a catwalk with exactly 4 windows, plus 2 wall SMG's to choose from (always choose the MP5k). It is not a bad idea to stay here with good teammates through round 8 or 9, then cooperating to turn on the power and retrieve juggernog before assuming your other strategies. Dead Ops Arcade Get juggernog as soon as possible, knifing at any round is a bit tricky here. Try to aim for the head. Ascension The usefulness of the M-14 is increased due to spaciousness. Since even random teammates will be willing to try to get to the box early, the extra price to get to the sickle generally still pays off. Either way, do not open the Juggernog door from the spawn room, since this destroys two very popular train spots. Another important factor in this map is that acquiring perks early is a recipe of just losing them to monkeys, or at the very least losing the free perk early on (sacrificing a minimum of 1.5k points). Hitting the box early is possible but not really necessary either; the best bet is to just build a point bumper until round 15 or so, then leave a crawler, pick up perks, and spam the box to take on the monkeys to defend your new gains (for the early rounds, you can get away with covering some perks with claymores). Call of the Dead The usefulness of the M-14 is diminished, so hurrying towards the MP-40 is a better bet. From there, either turn on the power and get juggernog right away, or (if your teammates don't mind the door) open the bottom of the lighthouse and get the Sickle. Despite the distance needed to run, the doors are inexpensive. Shangri-La Too chaotic for the M-14 method, I recommend whole-heartedly the AK-74u, then picking up the bowie knife straight away. The Bowie Knife's use as a survival mechanism in the early rounds seems to have gone up signification in addition to its point bonus. I would say it is just as safe as Juggernog, so picking it up is a no-brainer, even before your muscle juice. Moon Knife like Jack the Ripper on No Man's Land (assume the American zombies are Victorian-era London prostitutes), then dash to the teleporter. Leave the spawn room immediately and buy the M-14, utilizing the described method completely en lieu of the pistol (which you probably discharged in NML anyway). Sharing windows never works well, so just grab real estate in the great out-doors. Rush to the Bowie Knife as quickly as possible, hack doors open to get back to NML and grab your nog. Requires annoying amounts of group patience and participation. If Juggernog is there when you spawn, DO NOT try to get it. Your teammates will just get mad at you, and the game will be over before it begins. Instead just teleport twice as soon as possible, giving as much caution as possible. The advantage is that you don't need to wait for everyone to have 2500 to make the first teleportation, and everyone is more likely to have the required points the next time you want to go for it. You're in better position if Speed Cola is present, since you can just get there straight away. In no map is it more important to DO NOT HIT THE BOX early. Atlantis Utilize the methods described above, replacing M-14 with MG34. Keep in mind that the Trident is in the dark corner behind the Neptune statue, not really very close to Jugg so you have to choose wisely. However, it is very effective against the Spawn of Chultlu every 5 rounds, and splitting up the teams to go both ways doesn't really hurt you too much thanks to the pneumatic tubes
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The first ten rounds of any map in zombies go basically the same, no matter how many people you are playing with. This is why its so boring; the game doesn't even really get going until round 11 or so. They are also the rounds that most players have the least problem with, a guide on the subject seems almost passe. This is not a strategy to survive. Nobody here needs that. This is an attempt to help my fellow players to thrive, to demonstrate they are a cut above the rest before the horses even leave the gate. These are not a set of rules, but a set of suggestions I have developed over my years of playing. Feel free to add your input, disregard points as you see fit, and personalize to your individual flair. These rounds are so ho-hum that lord knows they need as much style as they can get. With that in mind, lets begin. The current "gold standard" I have seen suggested over and over is to fire exactly 6 shots into a zombie at round 1, then knife him as he comes through the window to collect his tasty, tasty powerup. At round 2, 8 shots and a knife. Repeat for round 3. Hold up some windows, knife, collect some power-ups, eventually open a door, grab an SMG, and proceed to power. And that is all well and good, but you won't end up spectacularly rich, and it is rather dull. So how can we maximize our points-per-zombie beyond this strategy? Round One Forget 6 shots to the chest and knife. You are throwing points away. While it is rather pathetic, the m1911 does have piercing power. Line up 2 zombies before considering the trigger. To line up zombies, it requires an understanding of window mechanics. Kino der Toten has diverse windows, so I will use this as an example. Lining up is easy near the street window and under the stairs, where each zombie has a long path to walk before approaching, not so with the dark window or the top of the stairs. So with every window, there are 3 spots for zombies to walk up. These three don't line up, so for round 1 just let them build up at the window, then let them walk in, fire 4 shots into the closest when they are lined up, and knife him. If you get 3 zombies in a row, and fire very close, the single bullet will hit all three, netting you 30 points where you would normally have only gotten 10. After 4 shots, knife the first zombie and fire 2 into the second (assuming there is one behind him). Then knife him and the third. If you don't get a lineup, don't fire. Then repair exactly 4 barriers before the round is over (most applicable if you're in 4 player). So with math, you have 4 shots x 30 points (120), 2 shots x 20 points (40), and 3 stabs at 130 points (390). 550 points from 3 zombies, with 34 shots left. Using the 6 shot method, you have 18 shots at 10 points each (180) and three stabs (390), netting 570 points. 20 point boost is nice, but at the cost of 18 shots compared to 6. Even using the "old" strategy from here on out, you're at a loss of 120 points. Round 2 Shorter description for this one, so much easier. Just do the same as round 1, but with 8 shots followed by 4 shots, then knifing. The Math: You will get 4 or 5 zombies on average, so 8 shots x 30 points (240) + 3 sets of 4 shots at 20 points (3 x 4 x 20 = 240) and 4 stabs for 130 (520) is 1000 points. 4 zombies at 8 shots each with the other method yields 320, plus 4 stabs (520) is 840, combined for both rounds is 1550 (a 450 point boost for just 1 additional zombie), compared with just 1360 for the other method. Comparing bullets, my method has now consumed 26, while the other method has consumed 54. Since you only get 40 to start, its actual yield is even lower, while my method still has 14 rounds left to use as you see fit. Point totals: 500 + 1550 = 2050. Not bad to finish off round 2. Round 3 You see the method of the madness for the math involved and its advantages, so at round 3 things change. Assuming a max ammo, nuke, or insta-kill was dropped in a previous round, you can continue using the pistol to rack up point advantages over your peers (with good luck, I was once able to have juggernog and the bowie knife by the end of round 4 by carefully using every shot, and very lucky powerup drops), or you can make your first move. The safest option is to cooperate with a financially disadvantaged teammate to buy two doors (he gets the first, which is cheaper, you the second, because you're a nice guy) and picking up a mid-ranged SMG. If you go this route, simply aim for the head and skip to Round 5. The higher point yield comes from the second option, which is picking up the M14. One shot from the M14 works out to roughly 5 pistol shots when fired from the same range we have been discussing. So basically pick this up, and use it the same as you would a pistol. You will be skipping the SMG entirely, or else this is a waste. At round 3, fire 2 shots into the chest with a line-up, then slash. One additional shot for the next, then 2, then 1, down the row, followed by slashes. It is with this method that your point total will start to significantly soar above the previous method, and random players will wonder how the hell you have double their points so quickly. Round 4 M14 only: Now its 3 shots, followed by 2, then 3 again, with slashes on each. More points, more fun. If you're still in the spawn room, now is when you should consider moving to the next area or two. Rounds 5-8 At round 5, it is 4 shots with the M-14 followed by a slash for maximum points. However, trying to line up may jeopardize your survival, so I would no longer recommend it to intermediate players, and experts don't really need the point buffer. If you do feel the need to line up, you may as well go for headshots. During these rounds your objective is to turn on the power as soon as possible. There is no advantage, on ANY map, to not doing so. Gas crawlers may be annoying, but it takes more hits to down you than a runner, and they're slower to boot. For rounds 5-8, there are again 2 paths, one for safety and one for point buffers. Safety: turn on the power and buy juggernog immediately. Aim for head shots with whichever gun you happen to have chosen for maximum points, the M14 still has the advantage of being fairly good with this, and ammo conservation. The SMG is good for staying alive in either case during these early rounds. Points: Pick up the Bowie Knife or Sickle, go to town. Not only does it yield much more points per kill than any gun through round 10 (paying for itself if purchased at the beginning of round 8 or before), it is useful in removing crawlers through the 20's, and dealing with dogs/monkeys their first few spawns. For added effect, fire a few rounds of whatever gun you are holding into the zombie before slashing for a few more points. The bowie is useful in this fashion through round 15, just a few shots into a zombie and a slash yields serious dividends. Rounds 7-9 Aim for the head with your SMG, or slash with your stabber. Two acceptable paths for these rounds: 1. Using your points to buy doors approaching PaP, or 2. Using your points to buy perks I personally prefer perks, but if you're a Mustang and Sally player you'll want to Pack a Punch those bad boys as soon as possible. Excellent for long term survival, having them in your hands makes life much easier all around. Round 10 If you chose the max points route, now you will want to pick up some sort of SMG so you can fire one or two shots before stabbing. Continue picking up perks and opening doors to your destinations chosen during round 7/9. Note on the Box: Don't hit it. Just don't. There is no reason to bother with it until after round 10, doing so just means you're wasting time you could have been using laying the ground work for a great game to pick up a weapon that is either a waste of very precious points, or seriously over-powered for the resistance you will be facing this early. There is no advantage to hitting the box this early. Map Variances Things change depending on maps, so here we go. Nacht Der Untoten This guide is useless to you, good luck. Verruckt The M-14 route is not effective. I have not tested this seriously with either of the semi automatic rifles available, do so at your own risk. However, the powerful MP-40 and Thompson are easier accessed, so the safety route is preferred. Organize with your teammates to decide who is turning on the power, do not waste the other party's points unless you are opening to get to a perk you wish to acquire right away. Hitting the box is acceptable after acquiring juggernog, since the difficulty is much higher than other maps. Shi no Numa Ditto with the M-14 problem as Verruckt, open either door to acquire the Thompson right away (whichever way you chose is not important). Finding juggernog is a priority, so attempt to coordinate door openings to find it as soon as possible. Comm Room and Fishing Hut survival requires some skill but not too much, so hit the box at your own risk after acquiring juggernog. Der Reise Same M-14 problem, plus an additional door to reach an acceptable submachine gun compared to the previous maps. Team cooperation is necessary, but the acquisition of juggernog is simpler than some other maps, so that kind of evens out. Getting the Bowie Knife is less rewarding than Black Ops maps, but still worth it if your team agrees opening the back door early is acceptable. Kino Der Toten Simplest, all recommendations apply. Best approached from MP-40 room. From the MP-40 room to purchase the Bowie Knife is precisely 5500 points, 5000 even for juggernog. Plan accordingly. FIVE M-14 is highly recommended for survival in addition to points in the fairly early rounds. Don't be fooled by the 6 entrance points; zombies will only actually attempt to breach 4 of them until a door is opened (this remains true through round 5 at least, I have never had a coherent enough team to test beyond) so covering windows is simple. After going down the first elevator, you are again presented with a catwalk with exactly 4 windows, plus 2 wall SMG's to choose from (always choose the MP5k). It is not a bad idea to stay here with good teammates through round 8 or 9, then cooperating to turn on the power and retrieve juggernog before assuming your other strategies. Dead Ops Arcade Get juggernog as soon as possible, knifing at any round is a bit tricky here. Try to aim for the head. Ascension The usefulness of the M-14 is increased due to spaciousness. Since even random teammates will be willing to try to get to the box early, the extra price to get to the sickle generally still pays off. Either way, do not open the Juggernog door from the spawn room, since this destroys two very popular train spots. Another important factor in this map is that acquiring perks early is a recipe of just losing them to monkeys, or at the very least losing the free perk early on (sacrificing a minimum of 1.5k points). Hitting the box early is possible but not really necessary either; the best bet is to just build a point bumper until round 15 or so, then leave a crawler, pick up perks, and spam the box to take on the monkeys to defend your new gains (for the early rounds, you can get away with covering some perks with claymores). Call of the Dead The usefulness of the M-14 is diminished, so hurrying towards the MP-40 is a better bet. From there, either turn on the power and get juggernog right away, or (if your teammates don't mind the door) open the bottom of the lighthouse and get the Sickle. Despite the distance needed to run, the doors are inexpensive. Shangri-La Too chaotic for the M-14 method, I recommend whole-heartedly the AK-74u, then picking up the bowie knife straight away. The Bowie Knife's use as a survival mechanism in the early rounds seems to have gone up signification in addition to its point bonus. I would say it is just as safe as Juggernog, so picking it up is a no-brainer, even before your muscle juice. Moon Knife like Jack the Ripper on No Man's Land (assume the American zombies are Victorian-era London prostitutes), then dash to the teleporter. Leave the spawn room immediately and buy the M-14, utilizing the described method completely en lieu of the pistol (which you probably discharged in NML anyway). Sharing windows never works well, so just grab real estate in the great out-doors. Rush to the Bowie Knife as quickly as possible, hack doors open to get back to NML and grab your nog. Requires annoying amounts of group patience and participation. If Juggernog is there when you spawn, DO NOT try to get it. Your teammates will just get mad at you, and the game will be over before it begins. Instead just teleport twice as soon as possible, giving as much caution as possible. The advantage is that you don't need to wait for everyone to have 2500 to make the first teleportation, and everyone is more likely to have the required points the next time you want to go for it. You're in better position if Speed Cola is present, since you can just get there straight away. In no map is it more important to DO NOT HIT THE BOX early. Atlantis Utilize the methods described above, replacing M-14 with MG34. Keep in mind that the Trident is in the dark corner behind the Neptune statue, not really very close to Jugg so you have to choose wisely. However, it is very effective against the Spawn of Chultlu every 5 rounds, and splitting up the teams to go both ways doesn't really hurt you too much thanks to the pneumatic tubes
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Debate and Discussion - Solo vs Co-op
aegisknight replied to Chopper's topic in General Zombies Discussion
solo is incredibly boring, but also easier, depending on your skill level. For beginners, solo is easier because you have your choice of guns, fewer zombies, and more points to yourself. For intermediate players, co-op is easier because you can work together and revive each other, sharing the burden. For expert players, solo is easiest because you can do whatever you want and at your own pace. You can pause, take a meal, and come back when you feel like it (over the summer I played a 6 hour solo match, with a pause in the middle where I just switched the TV to my PS3 and played final fantasy for an hour or so) -
yea I know, its all very complex. Lots of people have developed a lot of theories that mesh into others, but its always nice to get credit where credit is due
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I've considered it, and I've written a couple theories and guides, but they generally fall flat. I will try one out, but I think this one pretty much covers everything, just some unnecessary reiteration. But I'll have something posted later tonight. I had hoped reputation wasn't so important in strategy considerations, but I suppose it is how it is
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if you can't tell, its the kind of thing I love doing. If you want to farm out some of that, I'd be happy to. Yes, beginners need step by step, which is why I think you should centralize the basics for every map in one section, then explain the variances in each map's section
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yes and no, I read it a while ago but I didn't work through all the individual guides yet on this one. There's always multiple ways to approach a map, so I don't follow the approach to begin with The reason I brought it up is because I think it would belong in the first section (the OP) rather than tucked away in one map's guide. Ideally there would be 3 or 4 "tactical" sections at the start which apply to all maps. The OP is a good example, perhaps arranged a bit differently. We'd have the sections on perks, then certain guns for certain occasions, then "tips and tricks", then kiting techniques. At the start of the map guides section, we'd have basically a "master plan" for the first 10 rounds (since its much the same with minor variation across all), the ranking of map difficulty, then map guides that only outline specifics for each map. I think that would make the whole guide more digestible? The content is undeniably top-notch, just a whole lot of it to work through.
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there's a slight tidbit I'd like to add about early rounds (generally 1-4) and window activity. At any window at any time, no more than 3 zombies will tear down boards. This does NOT mean more won't spawn behind those three, only that 3 will approach closely. No more than two will stick their hands out to strike at any given time. Conveniently, you also board up windows exactly 3x the rate that zombies can tear them down (so long as you have Speed Cola, I think. Never tried without it, and I'm pretty sure that speeds up rebuilding). Since they do sometimes put their hands through to strike, you'll have to back off for a second, but hands attacking you means hands not pulling down boards, so it balances out. This means that if you are working a camping strategy where one or more windows are involved, so long as you stand at the window holding the rebuild button (x, square, or whatever PC uses), the zombies will never get in. Accordingly, any zombies you have behind your window will not be coming in from the other directions, so your camping buddies will have fewer to worry about. This means that so long as you aren't too worried about building up kills or points, you can hold a spot indefinitely, allowing in only as many zombies as you feel fit to kill at any given time by killing one at the window while constantly boarding. Out of ammo? Just knife. Going to get ammo even from a very close wall gun takes too much time, unless you have a solid rotation pattern with a partner. I find this applicable mostly on two camping strategies I've encountered in Der Reise where one window is involved, but I don't really care for camping myself so I don't know where else to apply this. Now, in regards to the first few rounds and point accumulation, I have played with a great many people who use the exact strategy outlined in this guide, and I have had a much higher points per zombie ratio than they in every game for the past several months. The key is not the aforementioned theory of "6 shots round 1, 8 round 2, and knife", although that is a great starting point. What is key to remember is that the m1911 does have piercing power, although not much. At any range it will go through 1 zombie and hit a second, at very close range it can go through 2 to hit 3. So the key to success is lining up the zombies in such a way that you can fire the appropriate number of rounds into their chest or limbs while hitting the zombie behind it, without killing either, and finishing both off with knives. For rounds 1-3, it is applicable at any window on any map by simply allowing the first to walk in slightly, and the next behind him. As I said before, there are 3 spots at a window front for a zombie to be attacking; if two are approaching the window from a short run-up (the dark window in the Kino spawn, for example), it will not be possible to line them up without letting them in. There is no downside to letting them either at these rounds, you'll just get more powerups. In solo a nuke early may mean you miss out on points, but it adds up to 1600 amongst four players, or 3200 if you happen to have a double points when it strikes (fairly common in early rounds). If only one zombie is coming, or a second is lining up but there is a terrible teammate stealing kills, don't waste bullets, just cut him down with the knife. With the initial 40 shots, you can get 400 points through your pistol or 1000 with proper aim, more with timely double points powerups. If you get a max ammo, it still isn't points lost, because you'll be making double your teammate's with the next batch as well. There is no loss really.
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its a word I can never remember how to spell. Its a great guide, especially the first section. I see the other sections as basically starting points to build from for intermediate players. There are safe tactics I use on each map that I know yield more points or are slightly quicker, and advanced strategies that work well without getting trapped in lock-step. Always more work to do, but I think I'd lend more weight if I were to push up my co-op records
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I agree with all of that, which is why I suggested that the uses of the monkies and devices in the guide be amended to reflect that. Panic device, yes. Go-to for revival in most cases? No. Training can be easy with multiple players, but this makes several assumptions: 1. everyone stops killing for a long while. If you just got revived and need jug, you are foolish to do it during a spawn. If a bomb kills several zombies, they will spawn in front of you while moving. The longer you wait to get jug, the higher chance one player will go down. The more times a player goes down, the more times others need to alter strategies and take risks to get them up. So everyone needs to stop killing until a full spawn is achieved during the revival process, even if the person getting jug has a group behind them it won't be a problem unless there are more spawning in front of them while trying to move. So it boils down to that everyone has a higher chance of survival depending on how few zombies are killed during the revive, so if it can be done without an attractive device, its better for everyone. (as a side note, I know players who actively avoid Carpenter powerups after round 35 just to make sure the spawns are smooth rather than buildups at one window for this same reason) 2. The people reading and using this guide are already experts and kiting, herding, and survival. This may seem like a weird assumption, but keep in mind that the people finding the guide most useful are those who are still developing all these strategies. They will also be the ones who have the hardest time surviving for any significant time sans jug. I find for intermediate players who will have the most usefulness in this guide, suggesting to use the monkies or devices as a primary revival mechanism is ineffective. I'd say that using those to revive is a very polar strategy; used by rookies who absolutely need them and real pros who know how to manipulate the zombie flows fluidly. For the intermediate, I think they should be used with the most caution. I wasn't commenting on the perk, I was saying that the hip fire spread is decreased, not increased. The area where the bullets will fire randomly is a smaller window, not bigger. Its just a typo I was pointing out.
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lots and lots of things in this guide, but one thing I noticed and would like to mention: There is a very important difference between the Gerchk Device and the Monkey Bombs, and both of their application with revives in regards to the later rounds. The key difference between the two is that the monkies do damage, while the Device outright kills all the zombies it catches. Their usefulness also varies greatly depending on the number of players in your group, as well as the map you are attempting. Lets say you are at round 20 on Nacht der Untoten, and a teammate goes down. The only logical thing to do, assuming that you have them, is to throw a monkey and revive your fallen comrade. You both have a slight chance to escape whatever problem you had, and all is right in the world. It should not matter if it is 2 people or 4. Now lets extrapolate this to round 20 with 2 people on Shi no Numa. One person is running in the Comm Room, the other in the Fishing Hut. Our fishing buddy goes down, the Comm Runner goes to revive him and throws a monkey inside the main area to get the zombies off him during the process, and once again the pair fire happily into the group of survivors. So lets think about 3 players on Ascension, this time they are at round 36. One person is running at Flopper, one at the swamp lander, and one at the Pack a Punch. All three have the Device, but one of the three goes down. Lets say it is the swamp runner. Now, the problem is that at round 36, almost as soon as you kill a zombie, another will have already spawned nearby. So is it wise to throw a Device while running to save your teammate, or is it better to simply grow a gap and revive on the fly? For Ascension, I would argue that having the two remaining teammates simply collect the group which killed the third, then (without killing anyone) have one person revive the first, while the third keeps the group occupied, is the best solution. This will give the fallen friend a chance to recover perks and regain composure before killing the mass, rather than scrambling to regain juggernog. This same situation applies to every map after a certain round, however it is less applicable with monkey bombs (since at higher rounds it will not actually kill those it attracts, making the path forward safe), but extra important to consider if the "medic" has a Krause or Quick Revive. In the cases where those two options are viable (which in all strong teams should be pretty much always), it is almost never a better idea to use an attractive weapon, when the alternative is simply grouping up all the spawned zombies and just reviving the teammate on the fly. This will allow the reviver to simply kite the zombies together while the newly revived teammate runs about grabbing his perks or consolidating his or her position, especially if the reviver is skilled with various train techniques. also, your deadshot description says this: should be decreased and the parenthesis was never closed
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his name is "merchant" and his avatar is the merchant from RE4.
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I appreciate the RE4 references
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The Four Guardians ***GROUP REQUEST THREAD***
aegisknight replied to carbonfibah's topic in Site News
meh. I survived over 20 minutes in NML. Saving up the points for pack-a-punch to get the MS while you can still kill enemies with it is a pain, but its so easy to loop that it doesn't make it much of a difference -
world at war was better to argue that you don't want more of basically the same is blasphemy for anyone who has ever played a call of duty
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Playing with randoms; COTD vs. Moon
aegisknight replied to Superhands's topic in General Zombies Discussion
Well I speak some french and Spanish so that isn't a problem, but it still sucks to have to translate between teammates
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