Shooter

I hope the Type 25 comes back.

Ah, I see! Hm. You might actually technically fall in an extreme version of multi-dimensionalism. Thats how the time loop works kinda maybe. The universe would end when the loop restarts. I personally don't think the universe can be created and destroyed like that. Does anyone remember the morse code from Tranzit? One of the messages was "Energy can only be transformed". It was referencing Einstein's theory: 'Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another.'. The same applies to the universe (which is just a big ball of energy really). Universes, like energy, cannot be created or destroyed, but only transformed.

It's totally possible. You never know where Treyarch will go with BO3. But thus far in our story, everything can be explained without parallel universes. Plus they are never mentioned throughout the story. I just don't think we go to a parallel universe every time we go back in time. When we die and go back in time to repeat the events, we still go back to our universe, it's just not the present. We are in another dimension of time, which is what Aether is. Same universe, different dimension.

Multidimensional. Without question. From Maxis' Diary: "I fear that time is running out. Though my understanding of the ethereal realm remains limited, I am convinced that the manipulation of the energy fields within all matter is vital to uncovering the dimensional gateway itself. It is my sincerest hope that somewhere in the realm beyond, my beloved Samantha still lives. I can only pray that Edward's insatiable lust for power does not prove catastrophic." The only supporting evidence for multiple universes is the second Richtofen in the Giant trailer. And I have a feeling Treyarch will explain it without resorting to "it's a parallel universe". But who knows maybe they'll take the easy way out. Let's hope not.

Welcome to the forum DarkZero! We're happy to have you here with all the other freakbag slayers. If you're looking for teammates, try making a post in our Teammate Finder section. http://www.callofdutyzombies.com/index.php?/forum/7-teammate-finder/ I'd also recommend sending a message to people who recently made a thread in TF looking for teammates. You might have some luck getting a group together. Also, we currently have a new site in the works that will help Zombies players across the globe connect and find teammates to do everything from completing Easter eggs, going for high rounds, or just to have fun slaying zombies. It's called CoDZ.LFG and it's coming soon, so be sure to check back on that as BO3 gets closer. Enjoy your stay, and if you have any questions don't hesitate to ask!

Eh I thought it was pretty cool they did this. Given the fact that BO3 comes out a week after Halloween, and that Fright Fest brings in crowds to Six Flags, I'm not surprised they did this. Plus the proximity of the park to their SoCal studio like Infest mentioned. Don't really think it's financially worth it as far marketing strategy goes, but it's not my money to waste so who am I to make a fuss. The only thing that really makes me mad is I don't live close enough to go ride roller coasters with Infest and Boom

Welcome back man! I'm glad you decided to sign back up! For some reason I do feel like I recognize your old name. Good to have you back! It's about to get busy around here...and I can't wait!

Honestly the most plausible place would be CotD, because of Maxis' lack of presence there. "Under his nose" is just referring to the fact he was using one of Group 935's bases without Maxis' knowledge, even though Maxis was suppose to be in charge of Group 935. Which is exactly why Richtofen used CotD, because Maxis never went there. You have to think about the massive amount of equipment they were teleporting to Griffin Station over the years. It would of been nearly impossible for Richtofen to pull that off from Der Riese. Richtofen spent a lot his time at CotD, not just testing on the O3 (which we know from CotD radios), but also sending things to Griffin Station. Meanwhile, Maxis was at Der Riese and Kino attempting to control the undead and supposedly mass producing the DG2. It's between Der Riese and CotD, as they are the only two Group 935 bases with known MTDs. And given that Richtofen spent most of his time at CotD, and that Maxis spent most of his time at Der Riese, CotD is the logical choice in my opinion.

Actually the location of "Eagle's Nest" has never been completely confirmed. However, it is unlikely that it was Der Riese. In one of Moon's radios, we hear Richtofen say that they've "toiled for years here(Griffin Station) and at Eagle's Nest to build up fortifications. They did this behind Maxis' back. And given Maxis was in charge at Der Riese, I doubt they could of built up fortifications without Maxis finding out. Which leaves 3 options: SNN, Shangri La, and CotD. All three were 935 bases. SNN is very unlikely. It could have been Shangri La, but the wonder weapon on that map was built by Maxis which suggests he was there at some point. The only logical choice in my opinion is CotD. And considering how much time Richtofen and his test subjects spent there during that time period, it would make sense.

Oddly enough, there is no concrete evidence of what order Der Riese and SNN occur. With all the other maps, we know the order based on character quotes from each map. But pretty much all signs point to SNN occuring first. The biggest argument for SNN being before Der Riese is the comic book page seen in the loading screen of Kino Der Toten. According to the page the order was clearly NDU, Verrukt, SNN, Der Riese. But the comic book images can be subjective for some people. We also need to remember what we're seeing in the Giant trailer is not what happened in the original timeline. If we started fighting the undead and traveling through time right after Richtofen betrayed Maxis, I doubt Richtofen would have had the opportunity to contact Griffin Station. Edward Richtofen: (Static) “How did she end up there? No matter, I know what must be done. In the meantime see if you can find Dr. Maxis, perhaps he can talk some sense into her.” Dr. Groph: “Did you not deal with him already?” Edward Richtofen: “Yes, but if the child ended up here, then Maxis must be somewhere too. Find him.” Dr. Groph: “How do you propose-” Edward Richtofen: “Dr Groph I cannot do everything for you. I leave this in your capable hands. There is much to be done.” Dr. Groph: “Yes, Doctor.” Edward Richtofen: “Oh and Groph?” Dr. Groph: “Yes?” Edward Richtofen: "I'd keep an eye out for an evil looking dog while you're at it.” (Static) And as the other guys have stated, what most likely occured is Richtofen and the O3 traveled to SNN and then back to Der Riese at some point. The way I see it, shortly after the two were betrayed, the Americans and Russians closed in on Der Riese. We know based off of the "WMD" intel from Black Ops that a "massacre" occurred at Der Riese which led to a standoff with American troops. To avoid capture, Richtofen took the O3 to SNN. They eventually return to Der Riese to use the MTD, but when they arrive they are attacked by zombies once more. In an effort to survive, the O4 jump into the MTD with the Wunderwaffe and go forward in time to Kino. As far as where the O4 were when Richtofen originally betrayed Sam and Maxis, it's not clear. The last known location of his test subjects was Eagle's Nest (aka CotD). Whether Richtofen took them to Der Riese or kept them at CotD or SNN was never clear. But based on the Giant trailer, it would seem he took them to Der Riese. Sorry for being all over the place with this post. WAW and BO discussion just gets me going.

I wholeheartedly agree about Origins happening twice. I've always stated Origins happened in two different ways (just like MotD). We have an original timeline (O4 don't meet, Maxis' brain gets transplanted into a new body, etc), and we have us going back to our original timeline after our deaths, to change the events and change the original timeline (just like MotD). Some other things I don't necessarily agree with, but it's a pretty interesting theory for sure. Allow me to poke and prod at some things if you don't mind. Not trying to shut down your theory, just trying to bring up points people might contend with. One thing to point out is that the loop(cycle) doesn't start until our characters die. If the O4 were repeating loops since the original Origins, then that means they would of died in the original Origins. This is totally possible, as we don't have quotes that contradict it. I personally think they never met originally, and didn't start dying and repeating cycles until Der Riese. It's my belief that during the original Origins, Maxis goes crazy after hearing a little girl (he's not aware it's his daughter since she hasn't been born yet). Richtofen notices and transplants Maxis' brain to another body. The two escape Site 64 (and thus Samantha's voice)before the Allies arrive, and so the O4 never meet. This leads to the events as we know it (Der Riese- Moon). After the O4 die on Moon, they repeat that cycle until something changes. Then in the BO2 Origins, something changes. This time the cycle changes and is broke . The O4 do meet, Richtofen is interrupted in the middle of the surgery and Maxis' brain is put in a jar, and we end up freeing Samantha. Also, I don't think Richtofen has ever truly been "good" in any of our maps. In Origins he didn't want to help Samantha and only wanted the staffs for himself. In Der Riese-Moon he was a psycho, and Tranzit-Buried he was an even bigger physcho. Just some stuff to think about. It's awesome being able to talk to someone else about this. Brings me back to the days with guys like Tac, Mac, and Mix. Miss those guys.

I remember after Origins came out I debated with myself for weeks if the O4 met in the original Origins, died, and began their loop then, or if they didn't meet in the original Origins and started their loops at SNN/Der Riese. Is that what you're saying? That the O4 originally did meet up in Origins and died, and they started their loop then? Haha it's so damn hard to put into words when describing the cycle. It's definitely still up for debate, but ultimately I believe the O4 never met in Origins in the original timeline. If the O4 met and died in the original Origins, I don't know who would have been in the controller seat to restart their cycle. Sam and Maxis weren't in the controller seat yet so it couldn't of been them. Plus wouldn't they just be stuck at Site 64 repeating that night if they died in the original Origins? Or maybe I just misunderstood your post lol. Like I said it's hard to describe all of this in a simple way. Also one cool thing to mention. When you play Origins on Solo, you can hear quotes from each character on what they would say if the O4 never met. For example, when playing solo with Tank, he says "Field report. Confirming arrival at site identified in our intel. No sign of the target nor the other agents believed to be on intercept course. Dempsey out." Anywho, thanks for the input! It's always great getting responses like this. I could talk about this stuff for days lol.

DISCLAIMER: This thread goes into detail. If you want to get an overview of the points I'm making, just scroll down to the bottom where it says "Conclusions". Though I would definitely recommend you read through the entire post to truly understand it.Today I'm going to discuss one of the less understood, but most important concepts in Zombies: the different realms, or worlds, within Zombies. I will also discuss the effect that time has on each of these realms. The three realms I'm referring to are the physical, Aether, and Agartha realms.To understand the story behind Zombies, it's crucial you understand how each of these realms works and how they interact with each other in terms of time. Once these concept is understood, the story itself will make a lot more sense.I've based this information off of years of research. I've followed the Zombies story closely for over 4 years now, and anyone that's around CoDz for awhile knows I know my stuff. If you have any questions for me please don't hesitate to ask, I'll do my best to give you an answer.Let's get to it. The Three RealmsLet's start with an overview. We have 3 realms within Zombies:Physical Realm - This is the physical world. It is reality. We can touch, hear, feel, smell, and taste. In this realm we occupy a physical body and are bound by the constraints of time and space.Aether Realm - This is the spiritual world. We are limited to sights and sounds only, but we can view and interact with the physical world as we please. In this realm we are a soul/spirit and have no physical attributes. We are not bound by time, but are bound by space. The best way to think about Aether is that it is like Earth's atmosphere, surrounding us at all times.Agartha Realm - This is a combination of both the spiritual and physical world. Time does not exist within Agartha. Very little is known about this realm.Those are the three realms we're dealing with in our story. Now let's get into specifics...Ethereal EnergyYou may have heard me mention this word before, but if not pay attention because it is a very important concept that needs to be understood.Ethereal Energy is the energy found within all things on Earth, living or dead. Ethereal energy is abundant in the physical realm.Ethereal energy from the physical realm is what powers the Aether realm. The Controller uses this energy to gain power in Aether, the more energy the stronger the controller becomes. We've known since Black Ops (based on character quotes ) that when we kill a zombie, it only makes the controller within Aether stronger. And that is because there is a transference of Ethereal energy from the deceased corpse to the Controller.115 is a highly concentrated source of Ethereal energy. When someone gets near 115, they are infected with this concentrated energy, and the controller within Aether takes notice. An example of this is when the Ascension scientists begin working with Element 115 and attract Samantha.With Element 115 on Earth, Ethereal energy is abundant. And thus the controller within Aether becomes very powerful. That very well may be the reason Maxis bombed Earth, in an attempt to destroy the remaining 115 and break Richtofen's connection with the Ethereal energy. We know they had a 115 source in Nevada, and that's where one of the missiles hit so it would be reasonable to believe that was his goal. After the remaining 115 is destroyed Richtofen tried to find another way to harness the energy, which ended up being the towers.Now that we've covered energy, let's talk about the other part of the equation: time.The Fourth DimensionTime plays a crucial role in our story as well. But time is not the same across all realms.The physical realm is bound by time. We can not move backwards in time in the physical realm, as time is linear. We can only move forward in time by means of the MTD.Time is much different in Aether. In fact, you could say time is non-existent in Aether. A spirit in Aether, if powerful enough, can view any moment from the past to present day. But while the controller in Aether has the ability to go back to any point in time, they do not have the ability to change the past themselves. They can only bring spirits back to a point in time and hope that the physical realm changes itself.Which brings us to the cycle.Viewing Images from the Past"Viewing Images from the Past" is a pretty accurate metaphor for how the Zombies cycle works. As we just discussed, the controller in Aether has the ability to send spirits back in time to a previous memory and have them relive it. If they relive it and change things drastically, then history is changed. And that is how our characters can continue to die and be reborn again while progressing through the story.It goes like this: We fight and die in the physical realm, we go to Aether, the controller brings us back to a point in time to repeat the events until they are changed. Once they are changed, the cycle is broken and history is rewritten from that point. The characters in the game often mention a feeling of déja vu because of this repeating cycle.For example, the O4 are fighting at Der Riese in the beginning of our story. They end up dying, and Samantha brings them back to the point when they first arrived at Der Riese. After enough attempts, they finally survive Der Riese and escape through the MTD. When they arrive at Kino they eventually die again, and Samantha brings them back to the point when they first arrived at Kino. They continue this cycle until they survive and get to Ascension, and so on and so on. This small cycle is depicted in the opening cutscene for Die Rise as well.That's how every map has worked. SNN-Moon Samantha brings us back, Tranzit-Buried Richtofen brings us back, and Maxis brings us back on Origins.But keep in mind the controller can't actually bring people back to any point in the past, it can only bring souls back to a point in their own past to have them change their own history and thus change history for everyone.Alternate Dimension...Sort OfI've seen the question a thousand times: Is Origins in another dimension/reality/timeline? But the answer is blurry. It just depends on how you look at it.We learned in MotD that when our characters die and repeat the cycle, that time moves on without them. So where exactly are we when we're repeating the cycle?A good answer would be Aether, but even that isn't completely accurate, as Aether is not a physical realm. The best answer would be it is a previous memory we're reliving, that eventually becomes reality once the memory is altered drastically enough. But that doesn't tell you exactly where the map is occurring, so I'll just leave it up to you to decide.Conclusions• When a character dies, their soul travels to Aether. The controller in Aether brings their souls back to a point in time before their death to repeat the event.• The O4 have been dying and repeating cycles since Der Riese.• The controller in Aether allows us to repeat the cycle, by bringing us back to a previous point in time before we died.• The controller in Aether is powered by Ethereal energy found on Earth• 115 is a concentrated source of Ethereal energy.• Origins is us going back to a point in our own past and repeating it.

What's up dude! We're happy to have such a longtime fan aboard the Zombie train! Another Solo player like myself eh? Well I would definitely recommend getting a team together on here when BO3 drops. We're also working on an app that will help you find players on your skill level so keep an eye out for that come Zombie season. Welcome to CoDZ!

They're not in a different timeline per say. The best way to describe it is us going back to a point in our original timeline, and changing the events to rewrite a new history. Whether you think we create a new timeline when we go back, or we rewrite our original timeline from that point on is your call to make. Though I will say in game evidence has shown we can indeed rewrite history. Some people are under the impression that the controller in Aether is capable of creating new timelines or realities, but it's simply not true. The Controller in Aether can only manipulate time, specifically the past and present. The controller is only able to go back to specific times in the past, and influence the events within it so that reality can be changed by the people living in it. If they do enough to change the past, the cycle of original events is broken, and a new history is written. If they don't do enough to change the past, the cycle of original events will continue. That's how all of our maps have worked. We play, we die, we go to Aether, we are brought back to a point in time to repeat the events until they are changed. The controller can't actually bring people back to any point in the past, it can only bring souls back to a point in their own past to have them change their own history and thus change history for everyone. That is what's happening with Origins. After Maxis gained control in Buried, he went back to a point in the original timeline, and tried to save Samantha. In the process, we changed the original events for the O4 so that the cycle is broken and history is rewritten. The question becomes how much of Origins occured the first time, and how much was changed when we go back in Origins. Again this is left up to your discretion, but I personally believe a lot of Origins occurred in the original timeline. There is a lot of in-game evidence to support this. Now onto the Maxis situation. We know in our original timeline that Maxis had Samantha in the 1930's, so there's no way his brain was removed in 1918. My assumption is that his brain was removed in the original timeline as well, but Richtofen completed the brain transplant and Maxis got a new body before having Samantha. In Origins, the O4 interrupt Richtofen's surgery, and Maxis is instead put in a drone. This created a paradox, which Maxis addresses at the end of Origins and supposedly has a plan to resolve. Even if there isn't proof Maxis' brain was removed in the original timeline, we know that the Maxis we see in Origins couldn't of had Samantha. He was at least 70 in Origins, which would make him around 100 years old during the birth of Samantha. And since we know the Controller can't create it's own reality but can only revisit and influence the past, we know this Maxis wasn't just made up but existed originally. Sorry for such a long post, but a complex question requires a complex answer.

Welcome to CoDz! I'm glad you finally decided to join up after being obsessed with the game for so long. We're definitely passionate about Zombies around here, so you should feel right at home. You joined at the right time too because it's about to start getting very busy as BO3 quickly approaches. But I digress, enjoy your stay and if you have any questions or ideas don't hesitate to speak up, everyone around here is super friendly.

Damn, Xbox One sold out already... Looks like they still got PS4 available though. Of course.

I've made an initial donation to help with the costs. I'll prob make another one later as the deadline approaches. I have no doubt we'll reach our goal before the deadline, but if we're getting close just let us know and we'll make sure it's met. I have high hopes for this application. I know there's certainly a demand for it, especially as we start inching towards BO3's release. Also, maybe we could hold Zombies related contests or tournaments for members of CoDz.LFG to encourage people to sign up for the site. Just throwing around ideas. Anyone that visits this site daily and looks at the new content can tell you that this is a good idea. Everyday there's always a bunch of threads from members looking for players for the EE or High Rounds. Just look at the New Content page and you can see it for yourself. We just need to find a way to market this to players so that they're aware something so awesome exists.

True. But it's like I said, Vril is merely referenced in Zombies, the story doesn't revolve around it. Vril is more a reference to a type of universal energy, and not the Vril-Ya themselves. In WAW the energy was referred to as 115 energy/power, in BO it was called Vril, and BO2 it was called Ethereal energy. Do you see what I'm getting at? Sure, you could assume that since Richtofen called it a Vril Machine and we get the Vril Generator, that the Vril-Ya must be involved in our story. But it's just an assumption, a theory. I made the same assumption 3 years ago after doing my analysis on Shangri-La's and Moon's audio files. I was sure the Vril-Ya would be involved in the story. But BO2 came and went, and nothing came of the Vril-Ya. The focus turned to Ethereal energy and the cycle. And again I'll stress that this doesn't mean the Vril-Ya won't be involved in future maps. But for now, it's just a theory. Not fact. And I'm not trying to discredit anyone who has a theory about the Vril-Ya being apart of the story. Hell, I used to be one of them. But it's been years since we've had any sort of reference to Vril, and it just seems silly to me that people still talk so much about it.

To back up what Nightmare is saying, the Vril-Ya have never been mentioned in Zombies. Not once. There isn't a single quote regarding the Vril-Ya, not even in the huge library of unused quotes from WAW, BO and BO2. Trust me, I've listened to every single one multiple times. Vril, the energy itself, isn't even directly referenced in Zombies. The only references to Vril are the Vril Generator (Golden Rod) and the V-R11 from Call of the Dead. Yes, Samantha was trapped in Agartha, but Agartha and the Vril-Ya are two different thigs. Energy has always been apart of Zombies. In WAW it was all about 115, in BO it was all about Aether's energy and Vril, in BO2 it was all about "Ethereal energy". It's just how the game's story has progressed. I think Vril is just another source of energy that's referred to in the story, and nothing more. Now there's nothing that says Treyarch can't make the Vril-Ya fit into their story in BO3. The devs love to use the fan's ideas in future maps, so we could see them make the Vril-Ya apart of the story in the future. But as of right now, based on the evidence we have, the Vril-Ya serve no role in our story. Also, just to clarify, I think Jami San was referring to The Vril Society and comparing them to the Vril-Ya. The Vril Society was a real group, the Vril-Ya were a fictional group. Sorry for the rant. I don't like short answers.

Hello folks, my name is Shooter. Some of you may remember me, as I've been a member of CoDz for over 4 years now. Anyone that knows me, knows my thing is the storyline behind zombies. I've always been fascinated by the mystery behind it, and throughout the years I've researched alot of cool and interesting things. So today I'm going to recap what has happened to the storyline over the course of Zombies up until the present day. This thread is actually a continuation of a theory I posted on the forums nearly a year and a half ago following the release of Origins. After viewing The Giant trailer and seeing the confusion by many, I decided to make this thread. Here is a link to the old thread: http://www.callofdutyzombies.com/index.php?/topic/158805-origins-and-the-zombies-timeline-explained/Let's start with the timeline.Note: Keep in mind dates and events are subjective and the timeline is constantly being adjusted. 1908 Tunguska meteor strikes Siberia. 115 first discovered at the impact site. Germany, among other countries, begin to study the new element under a new organization called Group 935. 1915-17 115 study continues. Maxis updates the periodic table with the new element with the atomic weight of 115, and names it Divinium. 1918-30 Origin occurs. Maxis' body begins to be affected by the 115 radiation and he starts to hear voices of a little girl . Richtofen notices and eventually does brain surgery and removes and preserves Maxis' brain. O3 do not reach Richtofen in time and he escapes with Maxis' brain before Site 64 is captured. Another surgery is performed and Maxis takes control of a new body. Samantha born. The full extent of what really happened the first time, and what was changed during Origins is unclear. 1945 Der Riese opens, tests begin again with 115 by Group 935. 1945-46 Niko, Takeo, and Tank captured by Group 935 and sent to Richtofen. Richtofen sends Sam and Maxis through teleporter. Sam goes to Moon and enters MPD. Takes control of zombies. Maxis goes to Shangri La or another unknown location. DR, SNN, Kino 1963 Ascension 2012 - ???? CotD. Richtofen obtains Vril Generator. Shangri La. Richtofen obtains Focusing Stone. Richtofen has what he needs to get Samantha out of the pyramid. Moon Richtofen swaps spots with Sam, takes control of zombies. Tank, Takeo,and Nikolai die on Moon, sent to Aether. Sam dies on Moon in Richtofen's body. Sent to Agartha after death. Earth is bombed and nearly destroyed as last measure by Maxis. Richtofen loses connection with Earth. 2012 - ???? Survivors begin to emerge. Maxis contacts survivors through electrical devices. Survivors who begin to eat dead meat infected w/ 115 begin to hear Richtofen. Samuel, Russ, Misty, and Marlton meet each other at Green Run. N4 help build towers for Richtofen or Maxis. If Richtofen is helped, he receives more ethereal energy that will eventually allow him to enter human bodies on Earth as he pleases. If Maxis is helped, he begins to build a global polarization device that will allow him to harness the ethereal energy on Earth instead of Richtofen. 2012 - ???? Great Leap Forward N4 help build Richtofen/Maxis towers, each giving Maxis or Richtofen more power. 2012 - ???? Buried N4 finish building polarization device for Maxis/Power Tower for Richtofen If Richtofen is completed: Richtofen gains complete control, uses Earth as he pleases, takes Samuel's body. Maxis is stuck in Aether for enternity. Earth is screwed. If Maxis is completed: Maxis kicks Richtofen out of the controller seat, uses power of Aether to go back in time to 1918 to change history and find gateway to Agartha at Site 64. Richtofen's soul removed from Aether and placed in zombie. N4 die. 1918 - Purgatory (Aether) Origins Maxis goes back in time within Aether and influences the past. With Maxis now in charge of the Aether, 115 experiments are a success on the battlefield and the gateway to Agartha is discovered. O4 enter their old bodies This time the O3 meet in 1918 and try to find Richtofen. Samantha contacts the O3 and Richtofen through the gateway and help them open it. Origins 4 reach the "Crazy Place" and open the gateway to Agartha and free Samantha. Maxis is reunited with his daughter in Aether. As a new history is created by breaking the cycle of events, a paradox arises. If history is rewritten in order to stop Richtofen from doing the same thing, Samantha would not be born. He creates a plan to ensure that the same events still occur so Samantha can be born, but that Richtofen is ultimately stopped. New 1945 - Der Riese The Giant New O3 arrive at Der Riese and attempt to stop New Richtofen from going on with his plans. As they are getting ready to capture their target, the MTD at Der Riese begins to light up. New Richtofen lets unknown matter through. Origins Richtofen appears from Aether and kills New Richtofen. The CycleIf you want to understand The Giant and the timeline in Zombies, you must understand the cycle that occurs in the game. There was an original series of events in reality (SNN - Moon), and when the O3 died, they begin to repeat a cycle. While the O3 are in Aether repeating this cycle, Richtofen and Maxis fight for power in reality with help from the N4. Maxis is attempting to free his daughter and break the cycle and change history, while Richtofen is fighting to keep history the same and use the Earth as he pleases. If Maxis is helped, we go back to the point to 1918 and break the cycle of original events.Let's take a look back at Mob of the Dead, where this idea of a cycle in Zombies is really thrown in our faces.When we first start the map, the four mobsters are in their cells while Ferguson is patrolling the cell block. The Weasel tricks Ferguson into entering his cell, and after he does Al kills Ferguson. Then the prison is altered to a Hellish new form, zombies start storming the prison, and the four must fight for their lives and build a plane to escape the island. However, while progressing through the Easter Egg on MotD, we learn from Ferguson that what we see in the beginning cut scene did not actually happen. We learn that the plane was never built, Al was murdered that night on New Years Eve 1934, and Ferguson lived a long life and worked at the prison until 1942. So which one was reality?The story told by Ferguson during the Easter Egg is reality. The plane was never built and Al died on the roof. The map we play in is us repeating the cycle of events that night in a state of "Purgatory" (aka Aether), ultimately dying in the end and continuously repeating the cycle. So what is the point of doing the Easter Egg if they're just going to end up dead in reality? It is because we are CHANGING the reality of what happened that night when we break the cycle. Through the events of the Easter Egg, we repeat what happened that night to actually rewrite history. We went back to the night of Al's death, and instead changed what happens so that history itself plays out differently. Instead of Al dying on the roof and Ferguson living, Al lives and Ferguson dies that night. The original reality has now been rewritten, and time will continue as is. MotD was a smaller version of what's happened with the Zombies timeline as a whole.Rewriting history or a new timeline?Whether alternate/parallel timelines exist in the Zombies story, or we're rewriting history, is just dependent on how you view the state of "Purgatory" that the O4 and MotD crew were stuck in. It's a science fiction story we're talking about here, so Treyarch can go any way they want with it.MotD and Origins are the only two maps (aside from Shangri La) where we travel back in time to a previous event, and redo the event to cause a new outcome (breaking the cycle of old events). Were we in another dimension (Aether)? Were we rewriting history when we changed these events? Did we create a parallel universe when the cycle was broken? Who knows for sure.Alternate universes are totally plausible, but it doesn't appear to be going on here, in my opinion. If you think back to the Giant trailer, we hear Dempsey say "only a fool would dare to change history", which suggests that one and only one history exists and to try to drastically change history could have serious consequences.I don't believe we have multiple universes but are instead working with a dynamic timeline, where anything done in the past will rewrite history and have repercussions on the future. This is the same type of timeline seen in the movie Back to the Future, which we all know is referenced many times throughout Zombies.The problem with a dynamic timeline like the one we're dealing with, is that it creates a paradox and an infinite loop of events. The paradox here is that if we change the events of the original 1918, all events after that could be changed, which means no teleportation, no Samantha and Maxis getting stuck in the MPD, and no need to go back in time to begin with.Still don't think we can rewrite history in Zombies? The Paradox"The paradox must be resolved!" - Said by Maxis after Samantha is released from Agartha.One of the best arguments against the parallel universe theory is the presence of a paradox at the end of Origins. Paradoxes like this do not exist with parallel universes. If you are born on one timeline, you do not have to be born on the next because you already exist.The same applies to Samantha. If a new timeline is created in a parallel universe after Origins, Samantha would not have to be born in this new universe because she was already born in the first universe. A paradox would not exist, but it does in our story.So why two Richtofens?This is where things get complicated. The biggest contradiction to the dynamic timeline theory is the presence of two Richtofens in the Giant trailer. The logical explanation for two Richtofens is parallel universes. It just makes the most sense. The Richtofen from the new universe opens the MTD and lets Richtofen from the first universe in. Yet previous evidence supports the dynamic timeline theory, and not the parallel universe theory. Unless they have something very unexpected up their sleeves, Treyarch is going to be contradicting themselves as far as the timeline goes.What extent of Origins occurred the first time, and what was affected by Maxis presence the second time around?This is the big question. Some people seem to be under the impression that Origins never actually happened the first time, but I strongly disagree.If you recall the data servant from Der Riese, there was an entry that listed the locations where Element 115 was found. The first location listed is Tunguska, a meteor that struck the Earth in 1908, ten years before the events of Origins. We also have no clear indicator of when Group 935 was officially formed or when 115 was first researched. It wouldn't be foolish to assume that Group 935 was formed shortly after Tunguska in order to study the element.Also on that Data Servant entry, we learned that the Americans had located a source of 115 in the Nevada Desert at Area 51. What we didn't know was how they were able to retrieve the element; Until Origins. In the starting room of Origins, a picture can be seen on the wall. The 115 Extraction Drill was originally designed by the Germans, but the blueprints were stolen by the Americans and used to extract the 115 from Nevada. We can see this machine in the Nuketown Zombies loading screen.I also believe the radios from Origins indicate that these events originally occurred in 1918. Most specifically, the following radio:Ludvig Maxis: The child's voice calls to me more frequently than ever. At first she spoke only of her imprisonment in a mythical realm known as "Agartha". Now she claims to be my daughter, even though I know no such child exists! (sigh) I fear my sanity may be slipping away from me.According to Maxis, when they were originally at Site 64 he began to hear the voices of a girl who claims to be his daughter, yet she hasn't been born yet. It's safe to assume that if this radio was from the original 1918, then the other radios would be to.Notable Observations from the Giant Trailer• Richtofen may not know Takeo, Tank, and Nikolai."Do you know who I am?" - Richtofen, after being confronted by the O3.That one line from the trailer gives us quite a bit of information. The line suggests that Richtofen does not know the O3, as he assumes the O3 does not know who he is as well.We know that at this point in the original timeline, Richtofen had already been experimenting on Niko, Tak, and Tank (based on radios from CotD). It's possible that Richtofen could have found new test subjects to conduct the experiments on, and it would not have significantly changed history.But it's also possible that the brainwashing from the 115 experiments being conducted at the time explains this line, but something interesting to think about nonetheless.• The MTD is not activated by Richtofen at Der RieseIn the Giant trailer we see Richtofen send Maxis and Sam through the MDT, and the O3 appear. As Zombies start to approach, the MTD begins to power again as Takeo and Richtofen look on in disbelief. The MTD seems to be activated on it's own.Richtofen then sneaks over to the control panel while the O3 are distracted with the zombies, and lets the unknown subject through. So what is the Giant? To summarize, "The Giant" map is the first step after breaking the cycle of original events in Origins, as we begin to rewrite history. In order to avoid the Samantha Agartha paradox, up until the point where Sam and Maxis are betrayed by Richtofen. Everything goes as planned until the Richtofen at Der Riese opens the MTD.

You own Zombies maps but haven't played them!?! How is that even possible?! Haha JK, welcome to the site Brad. I'm only on Xbox, but you should be able to find some PC players on here. Feel free to ask anyone if you have questions, we're a friendly bunch...except Infest.

Again I will just reiterate that it's your opinion DeathBringerZed. I'm not here to debate on whether or not the story in BO2 was poorly or well executed. That discussion is best suited for another thread specifically devoted to it. We're only going off topic with this one. This thread was meant to explain what the purpose of the spires were, and that's what I did. I also tried to make it clear that the events in BO2 were not pointless, which they weren't. Those are facts. If you want to voice your concerns or complaints about how Treyarch executed the zombies story, then create a new thread for that and we'll discuss it there.

You seem to be contradicting yourself here Tattoo. You say the story in BO2 was simple and pointless and you could summarize it in one sentence, yet earlier in this post you asked what the spires were used for. Seems to me you set unrealistically high expectations for BO2, and when it didn't meet your expectations you criticized it. The Buried ending for Richtofen WAS pointless, it just meant he was back to the same point he was at the end of Moon, in full control. But Maxis' ending is what lead to Origins, and Origins leads to our new map, The Giant. The story in BO2 was far from pointless. We wouldn't have The Giant if the events of BO2 never took place.