Tom852

Hi. I'm studying the zombie spawn behavior for a long time now, and let's do some theory. Spawn points activate, when you are in a certain radius. And zombies will always distribute uniformely random to all activated spawn points. A Spawn Point can let a felt unlimited amount of zombies spawn at the same time. Just think of the overlapping zombies that spawn at the same time&spot off the ground. I'm still claiming that and don't have proof, but it looks correct. That's actually all you need to now. But what is now important for speed? Imho, two things: 1) Small circles are faster! Also small circles in big areas work. Because once a zombie reached you, with a small circle, he will be so super fast inside that compact mass (=train) of zombies, that is proper to shoot with whatever. On the other hand, a big circle means, that the zombie needs to spend 10 seconds to reach the zombie train. He might even turn around at some point, because he is heading straight to you and there is an obstacle in his way. Hard to illustrate, but in the small circle, the zomb runs straight to you and will be just ready to be killed. In the big circle, the zombie will do like a curve, leading to a longer path that the zombie walks, so to a longer time, until the zombie is ready. 2) Minimize the longest 'Circle Spot' - 'Spawn Point' distance That's the key for speed. Slow Example: PHD Area in Ascension activates also the spawn point close the turret there. This zombie needs, let's say 10 seconds till he is at you. Slow Example: Moon, Dome. For some reason, freaky far spawn points get activated. Have you noticed that you often wait at the end of the round, till the last zombie reaches you? I'm pretty sure it's cause he spawns whereever. When I circle in coop at Tunnel 11, I often see zombies running towards Dome/Mule Kick. That kinda proves me, that Dome/Mule Kick activates these (far) spawn points in Power / Tunnels / maybe even receiving area. Making especially the dome (Mule Kick not so much), to the slowest area i've ever seen. 2-3min till you have a max train (notice the kills, often you get only 20 when you think you get 24, cause 4 zombies are somewhere out of accaptable range) Fast Example: Hmm, e.g. Tunnel 11 Moon. I think no other spawn points outside the tunnel are active. Max train within few seconds. Slow and fast example: Ever played Round 1 in NDU, and compared it to Round 1 in another map? Here is the illustration: So that is my point of view, and I'm still investigating it a bit. This just got actual in the NML thread, and all the Round 100 Races and stuff, so I thought I write it here. I hope you can give your inputs here.

Hi. I'm studying the zombie spawn behavior for a long time now, and let's do some theory. Spawn points activate, when you are in a certain radius. And zombies will always distribute uniformely random to all activated spawn points. A Spawn Point can let a felt unlimited amount of zombies spawn at the same time. Just think of the overlapping zombies that spawn at the same time&spot off the ground. I'm still claiming that and don't have proof, but it looks correct. That's actually all you need to now. But what is now important for speed? Imho, two things: 1) Small circles are faster! Also small circles in big areas work. Because once a zombie reached you, with a small circle, he will be so super fast inside that compact mass (=train) of zombies, that is proper to shoot with whatever. On the other hand, a big circle means, that the zombie needs to spend 10 seconds to reach the zombie train. He might even turn around at some point, because he is heading straight to you and there is an obstacle in his way. Hard to illustrate, but in the small circle, the zomb runs straight to you and will be just ready to be killed. In the big circle, the zombie will do like a curve, leading to a longer path that the zombie walks, so to a longer time, until the zombie is ready. 2) Minimize the longest 'Circle Spot' - 'Spawn Point' distance That's the key for speed. Slow Example: PHD Area in Ascension activates also the spawn point close the turret there. This zombie needs, let's say 10 seconds till he is at you. Slow Example: Moon, Dome. For some reason, freaky far spawn points get activated. Have you noticed that you often wait at the end of the round, till the last zombie reaches you? I'm pretty sure it's cause he spawns whereever. When I circle in coop at Tunnel 11, I often see zombies running towards Dome/Mule Kick. That kinda proves me, that Dome/Mule Kick activates these (far) spawn points in Power / Tunnels / maybe even receiving area. Making especially the dome (Mule Kick not so much), to the slowest area i've ever seen. 2-3min till you have a max train (notice the kills, often you get only 20 when you think you get 24, cause 4 zombies are somewhere out of accaptable range) Fast Example: Hmm, e.g. Tunnel 11 Moon. I think no other spawn points outside the tunnel are active. Max train within few seconds. Slow and fast example: Ever played Round 1 in NDU, and compared it to Round 1 in another map? Here is the illustration: So that is my point of view, and I'm still investigating it a bit. This just got actual in the NML thread, and all the Round 100 Races and stuff, so I thought I write it here. I hope you can give your inputs here.

I started to feel really uncomfortable when I don't have this save-my-ass gun beyond 20. But for me it's just the M&S, cause it's the most convenient to get and you avoid all this box thing. For no-phd-maps, I Just wanna mention, there are also a bit unconventional alternatives to the crossbow or to the wonder gun, to save box hits. I think of upgraded Spas, HS10, Python and similar. They work as good as a Wunderwaffe DG 2 to save your ass in lower rounds. Let's say until about 25 or 30. They have a fast rate of fire and a huge damage. Just what you need. Clipsize and reload time are secondary to kill 1-2 zombies in front of you. I sometimes think I should pay more attention on these in maps like Kino or Riese.

Thats how the game is. I just had recently a game, 4ppl Kino, everybody split up. I was in the Speed Reload room and got no more than 2 zombs at a time. I enjoyed it so much. Finally no need to run all the time. As long as I have about 20k, I don't care if my mate has 200k or if I have half the kills than the other. As said, it's a team game, so doesn't matter how many kills each one has. What we did in the high round COTD game was, we just switched the roles (in general the running locations) from time to time. So it equalizes again. You also need to see, that other players might not be too well skilled, and maybe they are super happy that they do not get too many zombies! In my opinion, it is definitely fair in general. Except that SMG Round extend thing. There is no need to super-maximize the points in Round 10+ imho.

That's indeed probably the worst problem of kiting. I have found myself in that situation too (e.g. Shangri La). You just now, you die, when you shoot, as long as a zombie spawns every 5 seconds. It depends 100% on the area, if you can shoot while they still spawn or not. So the key is to find an area, that has such a wide spot, that you can still react, even if you get a zomb in your back while you shoot. Or an area, where you have a huge overview, and where you can see, if you have a few seconds to shoot or if somebody is coming. There are many of these out there. Another solution could be that all players shoot at the same time, so all players get a period, where no zombies will spawn, just like in solo. The whole team waits till all zombs are on the map, then all shoot (safely), then repeat. But who would do that much effort of comm's Another nice solution is to use strong guns, maybe inf damage guns. Less time of shooting, whole train gone fast, 1 2 additional spawners can be killed too if necessary... gives just a bit more control in the end. As well we also have Double Tap here for that point (!!) Even in Shangri La Super Small areas, you can shoot at least 1 sec, even if its unsafe. With DT it might be worth it.

Perk 1: Juggernog Perk 2: Quick Revive (solo) / Speed Reload (co-op) Perk 3: Stamin Up Perk 4: Mule Kick Weapon 1: Max Wave Gun Weapon 2: The Fractalizer Weapon 3: Wunderwaffe DG3 JZ Knife: Sickle Lethal Grenade: Semtex Tactical Grenade: Gersh Device Lethal Equipment: Bouncing Bettys Tactical Equipment: Hacker

My major problem is the lack of concentration by time, the tiredness and I just rely on routine. Absolutely fatal. Got often killed in absolute easy situations, cause I do not take the zombies serious anymore. It is not to underestimate.

I like videos ;)

Riot Shield, good point. What e.g. would freak me out is a video about: How to use it When does it break? Does it even break? How to avoid 100% damage when having it out? What is to keep in mind? Where best to use it, when to use it best? What is a picked up shield worth? [squad] What happens if the picked up shield is broken? Still worth it or not at all? I'd rather be interested in tipps like these than in map guides. Other question I'd have is: Normal vs Nade Turret? (Turret killing the own squad?) What is better and where and when? Chopper: In Arkaden, Wave 25+, chopper goes more aggressive, just died yesterday while hitting the equipment box... And thought I'm experienced with choppers. How to deal with them 100% safely in any situation? IMHO a cool guide tells you a) First, a general strategy. Just: 'What do you do?' And you do this in all maps. Then more map based, where do you make use of this general strategy in each map? c) And then, the quicktips. d) advanced knowledge (e.g. that the barret is not anymore what it was in MW2 against juggers or whatever) Sorry if it sounds like me telling you what you should do... Just do what you like! I hope I could give you some inspiration. You might know, I did those circling guides for zombies, and all the time I invested in those was crazy. Then I did eventually the general guide and thought like: 'Actually I could have saved all the map based guides. All important to know is in the general guide...' That is why I'm still thinking, it would be a better idea, to a general guide with map based minor screeners. But of course, it's up to you. Just saying, I do the same shit in every map on zombies, once Rezurrection came out, it took me about 60min to find out every single area based speciality about Moon, everything else...was just clear, because the Kiting itself didn't get different. So my conclusion to start a nice guide project with my experience is: General guides are the key. They - are faster realized - are as good as map based guides - need a ton more experience than just starting off with a map based thing [to know what is best in Underground is easy, to know, why it is best, and to tell that the people out there, needs many experience on all maps] Sorry if this post got long, I just don't want you to make the same mistake as I did. I spent tons of hours to do my guides, and thought "now its enough". But then the next map is still undone, and you just need to do it for yourself, cause you don't want to have this feeling of uncompleteness in your mind... And then you get yourself into something that takes just too much time, and you regret it, although you are proud of it. Just if you go to Round 100 in any zombie map. You are proud of it, but in the end you think, you could have used the time way better.... So that is actually my point. I'm not skilled and talented enough to start of a guide project, although I might upload some Survival videos with tipps or so, but, do me the favour and think well about how to realize it, and how you do not need to do 50 hours of research to do a proper 10min guide. Tom finished :o

When I'm bored, which happens from time to time, I tried to kill my teammate(s) hundreds of time, to suicide afterwards, to end the game. Especially mean since if this happens in Round 30, each additional Round might be a higher score in the leaderboard for the randoms. Especially when they tell you "just one more round, its my new highscore".

Here is my calculation. It is imho rather a bit too slow than too fast, cause I assumed pretty long time needed to get new thunder guns midround and so on, respectively loosing few minutes each round with traps. Respected monkey rounds in there, it bases on the amount of waves, and the ammo of the full thunder+zeus. IT fits surprisingly well my own times and what superhands said. In my old guess, 20h10min for 100, i had added 5*30min for parts that go super wrong. I left that out here. Rd // Total Time(h) 1 0.01 2 0.03 3 0.04 4 0.06 5 0.09 6 0.11 7 0.14 8 0.16 9 0.19 10 0.35 11 0.38 12 0.40 13 0.43 14 0.45 15 0.47 16 0.49 17 0.53 18 0.57 19 0.60 20 0.62 21 0.65 22 0.69 23 0.73 24 0.78 25 0.79 26 0.84 27 0.89 28 0.94 29 1.00 30 1.02 31 1.09 32 1.16 33 1.24 34 1.32 35 1.34 36 1.42 37 1.51 38 1.60 39 1.70 40 1.71 41 1.82 42 1.93 43 2.03 44 2.15 45 2.17 46 2.29 47 2.42 48 2.55 49 2.68 50 2.72 51 2.89 52 3.06 53 3.25 54 3.43 55 3.48 56 3.67 57 3.87 58 4.08 59 4.29 60 4.33 61 4.55 62 4.77 63 5.01 64 5.24 65 5.29 66 5.58 67 5.89 68 6.20 69 6.52 70 6.61 71 6.95 72 7.28 73 7.63 74 7.97 75 8.07 76 8.43 77 8.80 78 9.17 79 9.55 80 9.65 81 10.04 82 10.45 83 10.86 84 11.28 85 11.38 86 11.81 87 12.26 88 12.70 89 13.16 90 13.26 91 13.73 92 14.21 93 14.71 94 15.20 95 15.30 96 15.82 97 16.34 98 16.87 99 17.42 100 17.51 101 18.07 102 18.64 103 19.21 104 19.80 105 19.89 106 20.59 107 21.28 108 21.98 109 22.70 110 22.79 111 23.54 112 24.28 113 25.03 114 25.80 115 25.89 116 26.69 117 27.48 118 28.28 119 29.10 120 29.19 121 30.04 122 30.89 123 31.74 124 32.61 125 32.71 126 33.60 127 34.50 128 35.42 129 36.35 130 36.44 131 37.40 132 38.36 133 39.34 134 40.34 135 40.43 136 41.44 137 42.45 138 43.48 139 44.52 140 44.62 141 45.69 142 46.76 143 47.86 144 48.96 145 49.06 146 50.19 147 51.33 148 52.48 149 53.66 150 53.76 151 54.96 152 56.34 153 57.74 154 59.15 155 59.24 156 60.68 157 62.12 158 63.58 159 65.05 160 65.40 161 66.66 162 68.18 163 69.71 164 71.26 165 71.35 166 72.92 167 74.52 168 76.13 169 77.75 170 77.84 171 79.49 172 81.16 173 82.84 174 84.54 175 84.64 176 86.37 177 88.11 178 89.87 179 91.64 180 91.74 181 93.55 182 95.37 183 97.20 184 99.06 185 99.16 186 101.04 187 103.11 188 105.20 189 107.30 190 107.40 191 109.54 192 111.69 193 113.86 194 116.05 195 116.14 196 118.37 197 120.61 198 122.87 199 125.14 200 125.24

oh ok. 20 hours and 10 minutes! But get a new thunder at the end of every single round in 65+ we don't wanna use the slow traps.

uhm, what means "RTR"

32 solo on Mission 42 co-op on Underground

Nice work. I'm just waiting for the video I hardly ever play Kino, so I cannot imagine it too well The most important things for speed runs are imho to circle at a spot, where the zombies spawn quickly. This will pretty much lead in small circles. The trick is to find a spot and technic, that is also safe. So I really like to see the vid I especially like your thunder gun ammo thoughts. Me myself likes to have the option to pap it, in case it gets empty. So I try to keep the downgraded thunder as long as I can, using already traps even in e.g. 32, when i know, that next will be a free ammo round. But after I read your guide, I guess there is no point in doing so. I like speed runs in Ascension better, just cause of the extra 3 full-wave-with-drop-option-insta-killers (also known as gersh device).

Nothing of course. I just think, you need to play each map a ton of times, test a lot of spots and paths, getting some XP in solo and co-op, until you can do a super awesome guide. I was thinking myself if this could be a task for me, but I just had to say... Na, too much effort. Especially since I don't like many maps too much. My second thought was then, that you will anyway follow the same basic strategy in each map tier. At least I play like that. So if I would start off with this project, I would think well about how to realize the guides. Talking about each map separately, or just saying "in Waves 12-14, camp at the following spots" and then show a little screener of the Tier maps. Maybe it gets too general then, but as said, difficult to say what is the best solution. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle

Maybe we need to define noob and newbie and whatever else is similar ;)

-->Stamin Up You know something will be coming, so you can prepare for it (pick out wondergun or crossbow, just watch what is coming, throw a gersh if necessary, whatever fits the situation) Define a medic, best the one with the thunder-like wonder gun, because he goes thru any incoming zombie train. I see no problem in separated trains. But back to the question, "how do you play", i just like this. Long answer: see signature (4.5 hours ) Short answer: I kill the zombies.

Thanks a lot. I'm just asking myself, what kind of videos I could do... ;)

If this is really true, all the other (mostly debunked) theories to get more drops in other maps get actually a new meaning.

I recently startet MW3 Multiplayer and got called often a noob, since I WAS a noob. People that call me so, forgot they once played for the first time too without knowing the maps. So I pretty much ignore by thinking "as long as you don't give me advice and just calling me a noob, he is actually to true noob". Of course we should halb the newcomers, but I also think we do it already. For example we have the Master's Zombie Guide, or for me personally if a meet a nice guy that just is new to the game, I send him to my youtube channel, explain him ingame what he should and can do and what is rather not so good. (Always trying not to get into the teacher's role, I hate this )

I'm afraid they already spend more attraction on BO2 then fixing glitches and errors in BO1 But hope dies last.

I think there also won't be Youtube Stars, because the mode is too unpopular imho, but let's see what happens. Map based guides are too expensive I'm afraid. But general guides are a good idea.

Hmm.. crazy.. I have no problems that would not be normal. OF course I get a 200ms delay when my US mate is host, of course it has few normal lags sometimes. But not that crazy as you tell.

Your guide is just awesome, have some [brains] What I am thinking about for a long time with the first nade is: How can you make a guaranteed 10, better 15+ crawlers and armless, which are a one hit with the knife (130 instead of 50, just worth it). Best moment would be in Round 3 imho, but how not to kill them with the nade for sure? It's kinda weird to get a perfect nade placement. Anyway if I get like 5-8 crawlers to knife, I can reach about 3800-4000 points. But what if 15+ would be crawlers... Pap at the beginning of round 4.... Just an idea ;)