MegaAfroMan

Due to the timespan between WaW and Ghosts, it is not fair in any way to compare Nacht to Point of Contact. TranZit is actually a very good comparison, because as far as zombie maps go, this one was probably one of the most unique (possibly right behind Mob of the Dead). The only thing TranZit had gained for it from BO and WaW was basic concepts that could have been thought up on day one (most of them were, or were added by verruckt). We had new characters, a mostly new story (you would not have suffered greatly in understanding the New 4's story if you hadn't played BO or WaW), and many new elements (buildables, transportation, bank, weapons locker. So if you want to compare launch maps for each of these modes, compare TranZit and Point of Contact. Not Nacht.

Personally, I think it is more fair to compare PoC to TranZit, due to IWs ability to infer a certain interest base from the sucess of Treyarch's secondary gamemode, and due to technological advancements since World at War. At least for the sake of comparing base gameplay features. There is more in common than just CoD though. They both are Sci-fi style survival games inserted as a secondary gamemode in a CoD title. IW has tried a survival gamemode before and it didn't work as well as zombies, so now they are going a little more detailed with an actual story and a sci fi element. there are some major gameplay differences, but ideologically, they are very similar. Fight this strange threat until you complete your goal (which is death in most zombies maps, but it is still a goal to survive mind you.) So value wise, yes they are comparable, gameplaywise, it really doesn't make as much sense as extinction focuses on objectives much more than zombies did. However we should NOT use zombies as a grading standard for extinction, as that is just unfair at this time.

I'm personally holding off on evaluating Extinction until the DLC all drops. Although, I do think the base game should have included at least two "chapters". I don't think it is a safe play by IW to only give a taste and hope it is enough to convince people to buy the dlc. When I do evaluate the gamemode, I'll probably do so from two seperate viewpoints. The first being as a bonus mode in a game that I was getting regardless. And the second being from the view of buying Ghosts and all DLC solely for extinction. Is the gamemode worth $110 or so after all the DLC is out? We'll see. Until then, people do need to remember that this isn't zombies. However, people can and possibly should compare the two. If you only play cod for zombies, extinction is without a doubt the latest in IW's attempt to capitalize off of the sucess that Treyarch has had with their secondary gamemode. It is a fair thing to compare value, ie, is zombies worth it over extinction. It is not fair to treat point of contact as if it is supposed to be another zombies map though.

I've never been bored with kiting. Ask MMX. I keep it fresh, even when I'm the last surviving member in a grief match. ;)

Robots are possible, but I feel like it'll be something static. Something that either doesn't move, or is at least always on the map somewhere. Granted I have no idea is basing what to look for next, off of what was already found will even work. Ice staff costs 0 points Lightning costs 500 for the tank rides. Ice gives zombie blood always Lightning gives a random power up so what would wind and fire do and need?

I KNEW IT I KNEW IT I KNEW IT I KNEW IT! I knew Treyarch wouldn't make one staff so unbalanced by making it the only staff with an in game side challenge! Wind and fire hunt go! That zepplin in the sky, or even just the planes has always struck me as suspicious... just as well, look for debris, or non-flaming wagons. Something to burn.

Although I'm not the greatest at zombies (nothing past 50 here ) I'd have to contradict Zen, my highest rounds are on Black Ops 1. I've been to the mid 40s on Moon, Der Riese, Shi No, Kino, Ascension, CotD. I've only been to the 30s on the Bo2 maps except Die Rise. I feel like before they added in mainly the tombstone persistant upgrade, Tranzit (maybe die rise in that limbo time between the nerfing of the sliquifier and that awful exploit roon, and the creation of thee tombstone upgrade) was actually a lot harder, as if you went down, you'd have to make it back to all of your perks without screwing up. In most other maps this is maybe a few minutes lapping around the map once or twice. In TranZit it's a 10 minute ordeal with creatures jumping on your head every 7 seconds. Die rise also threw in those elevators making judging exactly where your perks are to be left to chance. Buried is easy. No doubt. I swear that the layout of Mob makes it harder than other mpas, but it has the first (and only) infinite damage trap in BO2, so I understand how that might help a little. Origins is in my opinion the perfect map for people who can barely scratch 50. You're given so much to do, and it lets you feel much more accomplished about making it to round 30 or 40 as you've had to go through all these little objectives and challenges on your way there. To people who can hit 70+ this might feel like a boring waste of time, just slowing down your set up for the inevitiable 60 or 70 rounds you'll be playing, but to us low rounders (or at least me and the people I know, as origins is the most played map on MY friends list) it is exciting as we don't expect to get far in the first place, so having our game be filled with objectives gives us something to aim for for accomplisment rather than round 187 to actually be in the top 10 on the leaderboards(or whatever the record is...).

I think the difference here, is MMX is referring to people who start the game with intent to do as high as they possibly can. Where as others are thinking he is referring to people who just start a survival game for the fun of it. However MMX you are still somewhat incorrect. The world isn't absolute like that. I could intend for a world record and set aside 3 days straight to play. If by some miracle my console never overheats and I finally reach that record round only breaking occasionally for sleep, food, and the ocassional stretch, and I'm still going strong and I have work the next day am I not allowed to end the game by your standards? No one can KNOW how long a record game will take, and as such no one can accurately plan for the amount of time needed. I'll play until I need to go. I've already broken the record and played for days, by some stroke of luck, or an underestimation of my personal skills I used up all of the ample time I set for myself. I will end the game, and you have absolutley no right to tell me that I am wrong in doing so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyqS-XPuWA0 Here at 1:06 Through the conversion process it opens portals that bring forth objects of indeterminate origins, through space and time. It's much more likely it isn't a coincidence, and there doesn't have to be a gran reason why they got there. The fact is that they got there. And No, I was not. I didn't make any statement relating the blood tying to Pack-a-Punch or the Box. You tried to make me seem dumb by saying When I posed absolutely nothing of the sort! Just because I mentioned that 115 pulls things through space and time, doesn't mean I'm suggesting that weapons from PaP will turn into blood. That is just absurd and a shameless tactic called Reductio ad Absurdum. Please just go. Clearly you aren't going to actually listen to anything either of us will have to say on this subject. Or proof me wrong. Tell me why it cannot happen, without ignoring what I had just pointed out. And do it without the attitude. I also see you decided not to respond to my comment on your sliquifier research. In all fairness that is something that really cannot be argued either for or against as there is no proof for a set of chemicals without 115 to be able to produce such effects, just as there is no proof for there to be 115 involved at all. Both are just theories. I subscribe to 115 involvement, but there is no definitive proof I know of to make either of us right or wrong there.

Incorrect. The quote doesn't specify the box or the PaP. It simply states that 115 has the ability to pull things through space and time. At least the quote I am referencing. It also isn't a coincidence that the written characters on the 2 vials perfectly match the IDs of two of the mobsters. I didn't ever say it would affect the pack-a-punch or pop up in the box. Don't try to twist my words into something ridiculous.

What about the numerous origins quotes? That's why he doesn't want to bother with you. You ignored the actual points I posted in response to yours.

I honestly think (aside from the difficulty of receiving all of the required items from the box) that Moon's is by far the easiest.

I suppose that is fair enough. No you don't need the fists. Which would explain a large part of our differences on how long the upgrade process takes. I do agree that it isn't compelling to do the EE in every game, or even at all. But personally I never did for any other map either. Moon was the one anomaly, and I personally think the opposite, in that Moon was TOO easy, and spoiled us TOO much. Sure it was rough and tedious to do Shang, and kind of rough to do CotD, but after doing it once, you were set for the remainder of your days. Moon's EE on a good day can be done in a few rounds, and in maybe 15 minutes. It is really easy. Then it takes a lot of the challenge out of the game, as you never have to reperk, and you have all of the perks. We're spoiled by it. Buried had an even more extreme ending (Ricky gave us a 4th slot and a perma firesale I believe) but you could only do it under very specific circumstances. Everyone had to have all of the 3 EEs for the N4 maps done and all done for the same "master". After pushing the button, you'd need to do them all over again, to do it again. So very very very tedious. Origins might take longer and be weaker than we'd like, but it doesn't take as long as prepping the button for Buried. I can agree to disagree on whether the map motivates you to play it. That is your opinion. I'm just sorry to hear that you don't love the things in this map as much as I do, because I'd be very happy if we had BO3 maps built off of an Origins template (like how all BO1 maps were built roughly off of Der Riese). It's sad to realize that some people would be miserable with that outcome, because I wouldn't want that.

The first one, I assume those chemicals would not have such a powerful and sudden effect. They could be additional ingredients in whatever the goo substance is, but for it to have such a drastic effect, I'd say it is safe to assume 115 is involved. The last one, read MMX's cycle theory. Or, just listen in Origins... they mention several times that 115 pulls things from other times and spaces. Those blood vials are obviously in there, as they were shown in the trailer and are on Richtofen's character model. It is too much to be a coincidence that both numbers/letters correspond to the prisoner ID's of two of our MotD Characters. Anyhow, MMX this thread is great. I enjoyed reading it through. It has a very nice presentation, and a science-like feel to it ( as much as you can get when detailing a fictitious super substance). Thanks for making this!

That, and simply getting the Wonder Weapon(s) and "Pack a Punching" them is a huge chunk of a the Side Quest. By the time you're set up for a long game, you pretty much have most of the Easter Egg done. THIS IS NOT TRUE. IT IS AN EXTREME OVER-EXAGGERATION. You'd know this if you read the input Chopper, and myself, and many others gave. I'm pretty sure even Zen conceded that although he still thinks it is too much work, it isn't close to half or most of the EE.

Firstly, this isn't even a response to the part you had quoted. He was saying you can kill zombies while upgrading. You then said, yeah but it's boring because I either have to not get awesome stuff, or get awesome stuff after doing tedious work. Also, Moon required 2 people to do. Origins requires 1. Although it is many times easier with 2. And, Moon required you to have done Shang (Unbelievably tedious) and CotD (kind of tedious) before. Origins has no pre-requisites. If you want to compare Moon to a map, it has to be Buried. It isn't fair to compare the EE of Moon with the EE of Origins. Anywho, As I pointed out, you are SEVERELY overestimating the time it takes to build and upgrade the staves. In a 4 player game, yes you'll upgrade all the staves, but unless you play with terrible teammates, you personally will only do one. This shouldn't take you more than maybe 5 minutes to assemble and upgrade doing extra things you wouldn't normally do. With most staves and ideal conditions, I'd say even less. Lightning you should be able to do mid round, with no time wasted or spent just doing tedious tasks. Fire is similar. Ice and wind require a little more work in my opinion, but again, if it's taking you 10+ minutes with a crawler, you are doing it wrong. It is that simple. Even with all 4 staves upgraded, you are nowhere near done with the EE. Hell, even with all 4 staves, and the tactical and melee, you aren't even quite halfway done yet. The EE rewards are given as you go, with the final 2 being Upgraded fists, and the Not-So-Crazy place. (Yes you can have the not-so-crazy place by sacrificing the staves, the point is the combination is the reward) This reward isn't as epic as moon, or buried. But it is a lot better than CotD, Tranzit, Die Rise, and Ascension. At least in my opinion, and it isn't half as tedious as Shangri-La's EE or Buried EE. Moon trumps it, but that is one map, not all 18 other maps. As people have said already, this map is only tedious if you make it tedious. There is no reason you can't build and upgrade the staves quickly and mid round, without having to do more than maybe one extra lap around the map than usual.

For what staff do you need the thunderfists? Upgrading the thunderfists is an EE reward, not a gameplay mechanic. It isn't necessary. We only have one other map with an upgradeable melee, so it isn't something we typically get either.

I don't see why everyone makes it out to be such a big deal to upgrade one staff. That is nowhere near half the easter egg. As Samantha describes the steps, that is 1/4 of the first step. It takes different times depending on the staffs, but after getting the staff parts (I do think wind and sometimes Ice are a little too tedious, but not game breaking) if you know what you're doing, it shouldn't take more than 30 seconds to do whichever crazy place puzzle (except fire), and only 3 or so minutes to do the above ground puzzle (except fire in which the above ground puzzle should only take you 30 or so seconds.) Then it just somes down to doing the easy stuff in the excavation site, and killing a little in the crazy place. You can upgrade the lightning staff in no time. I'll clock myself next time, but I swear I can do the first puzzle in maybe 15-20 seconds, and the switches I can do while going around the map in the first place to turn on generators. The stqves really aren't a hassle if you only do one, or maybe two. Even at that point, 2 staves is still only half of the first step in the easter egg. Not even close to the remaining tasks, which I'll list here for effect. After upgrading 2 staves (which I'll say you did generously. I normally only upgrade one for solo runs) you still need to: Upgrade 2 more staffs. That doubles what you've already done. If the EE was done here, THEN I'd say you do half by upgrading one or two staves. Then you need to get the melee. not a huge task. You might do this regardless. Then you need to get the tactical. Kinda rough. A few players may insist this is necessary for a normal game, but I swear it isn't. Then you need to place each staff in each pedastal. This is a pain, as 3 of the spots are inside the robots. This is like gathering the wind staff all over again. Not required unless you are doing an EE game. Then you need to throw a beacon on a certain spot while pressing a button inside a robot's head. also a pain. Does nothing for you unless you want to do the EE. Release Maxis and fight 6 Panzers (4?) Does nothing for you unkess you do the EE. Get zombie blood to shoot down a plane, and get it again to kill a unique zombie. Also sounds a little rough, right? Well you dont need to do this either unless you're playing for the EE. Then you need to punch zombies in the excavation site to get your super fists. Not rough unless you wait really long. Not neede unless you're doing the EE. Then you need to kill zombies in the crazy place untill the portal opens. Release Maxis. Now you're done. The super fists and Not-so-crazy place are EE rewards, no different than how 8 permanent perks are the Moon and Shang rewards. Only the first few steps could be considered "forced" but really they aren't. I don't think you need the melee, even though it isn't that hard to get. And you really don't need the tacticals. Upgrading one or two staves is the only step I'd agree would be in eavh players best interests, and as you can see from the listing above, that is barely 1/8th of the EE. Not even close to 1/2.

In a standard game, you really shouldn't feel forced to do more than upgrade one or maybe two staves. That isn't the whole easter egg. That's barely any of it. Everyone I talk to over LIVE loves Origins. I think it combines the best aspects of BO maps, and BO2 Maps, and I love the idea of these alternate objectives, even if they need to be repeated. I can't see how MotD would be more liked than Origins in this respect... If you want to pack-a-punch on Origins you have to power all 6 generators (which you'd want to do anyways as you get paid for it, and you need it to buy perks), and keep them powered (which you'd want to do anyways as you can get Max Ammos from the creatures that attack the generators). On MotD you have to run all over the map (multiple times if you arwn't playing solo) to gather plane pieces or fuel. Seems like a much larger hassle. On MotD and Origins you need to go through some steps to get the melee, and I'd argue MotD's is more out of the way, Origins is just killing zombies with whatever weapon you want in four easy to survive in areas. MotD and Origins both have tacticals to obtain, but I personally think Origins aren't worth the effort. However it only requires melee killing is 2 areas, MotD requires general killing in 3 areas. Not the greatest side quest, but in MotD the reward is worth it. In Origins, you don't need to bother. Upgrading the Staves in Origins can be seen as a simple type of Pack-a-punch. At it's very worst, upgrading a staff in origins, can't be more of a hassle than getting 4 randoms to activate the PaP to upgrade the JGB in Shangri-La, can it? If you want to postulate that you need to do the EE to have a decent place to run (Crazy Place without walls) then you're wrongly feeling entitled to a ridiculously easy running place. Think of the crazy place as the mud room in Shangri-La as it's normal form. That's what we are given. You can enhance it by doing the EE, but you don't need to. It isn't shoved down your throat.

Yes and no. But mostly only in a good way. Other than the storyline getting looped back on it's self (many people still disagree about what exactly happened and this isn't the place to discuss that.) I think we're seeing a mixture of old and new elements. As pointed out, MotD and Origins had a more BO/WaW feel to them, because they had little hidden objectives, and they had the classic pathway system where you had to buy your way through the map. TranZit, Die Rise, and Buried, were actually more distinct than the others with several buildables, access to most of the map on round one, persistant upgrades, bank, weapon locker. That being said, larger fundamental changed seem to occur in MotD with the afterlife system. I think, in it's simplest, the more purchasable doors, the better the map seems. You get more of a sense of progress and exploration when you have to build up points to progress, than when it simply requires 5 minutes of running and jumping through the "long way around". This is not an absolute, it is a generalization. There are many, many other factors that contributre towards the quality of the map, but I feel that this quality is often overlooked. I hope that we move away from the classic zombies in features, as I like new things, moreso than just one new perk (while keeping all the old perks) and one new WW. I like the new buildables and objectives and enemies and whatnot. However I hope they fall back on requiring many door purchases to move forward in a map, and leave the bank out.

I do believe you are right, however I believe it is commonly considered around here, that Dead Ops is not cannon to the rest of the zombies universe.

Most people here are refering to the charged shot of the Upgraded staves. If you aren't getting instakill wind shots with a charged ultimate wind staff, then you need to adjust your aim. It creates a tornado, shoot at the ground.

So, now they're altering the word **** please report this topic, post ****, with exclamation points, ones, and the lowercase L.

that is where my uncertainty lies. Whether the lightning could kill as quickly as the ice in 30-50.

upgrading for ice takes time too. You have to run about the map, and do the puzzle. I suppose if you were really good at those tasks, you could do it fast, but I still think lightning would be faster, unless you were extremely lucky/skilled with aquiring the ice pieces and doing the challenges.