MegaAfroMan

I'm asking simply because I bet you could build and upgrade the lightning staff quicker than ice for a speed run to 50.

do you think for 50, you could sub out Ice for Lightning? Or is there too much of a power difference?

I think the **** spam is triggering more of itself. a little while ago I had reported a telescope ad spam bot that had posted in my thread mentioning astronomy. We're being watched by an army of spam bots, all waiting for the right keywords.

Chopper, that is using primarily the Ice staff correct? what else do you do in your set up?

Or of course our friend Maxis in drone form...

I agree with most, but I still question the stastical averaging between the charged shots, as they all seem to apply damage with different ranges. Missing with the fire (which will create your lava puddles upon contact), is different than missing with the lightning (which will still arc out to zombies in it's range as it floats by). Yes there are decimals, but I was right, I did say there would be a higher degree of inaccuracy by just extrapolating from a smaller test.

Would that method be viable though? You'd have to ensure that every shot was used to it's max potential. I suppose though, it'd essentially just be collecting enough data to phase out most error. I mean, you could (probably with a higher degree of inaccuracy) figure out the same thing by doing that method, with only one clip's worth of shots and then multiplying your aquired kills by the number of available clips. Has the upperbounds for Wind and Ice even been found yet? Because if one staff's charged shot had infinite damage, it would throw off things.

Other than the buildables I think the one thing the maps had in common, was that they really didnt have things in common. Each map did have some very unique trait to it that seperated it and playing styles of it from the other maps. Also, the idea of stat tracking was rather nice, even if the end result with the ranks wasn't as favorably viewed.

Exactly MMX. It's not tough to chart most of the "regular" weapons with some time and patience. However "unusual" weapons, like the staves, and explosives, I'm having a tough time assigning values to as well. Perhaps you and I should see if we can't work out a method.

Haha Jay. Thanks. I'm glad I'm someone's favorite. I always tried to keep things professional.

Y'know, I'd like to see someone chart out the comparison between ammo count (and number of charged shots per clip) and killing power. I always hear that Wind and Ice are by far the most powerful, I haven't been high enough to see where lightning and fire start to drop off, but if it so happened that lightning was half as strong as wind, but with twice the ammo, it'd make a lot of sense to me in the end for balancing purposes. Anywho, with the staves, for a typical game and not a high round game, I prefer the lightning because it is the only staff without any element of randomness. Lightning pieces can be obtained with 3 tank trips (or 2 if you have staminup) and you can plan to spend the exact same amount of cash doing so each time. You can repeat the exact process 100 times and not see a change. The switches all spawn in and need to end up in the same directions, so as I said, you can do that ahead of time, and you can repeat that 100 times without fail. The chords are alos the same everytime. Wind on the other hand, requires you and the robots to cooperate. Some games this can work out for you perfectly, other games you'll either keep ending up at the wrong foot, or you'll wait 20 minutes for the right one. If you're really determined and patient, you can repeat the round you get the staff on, but never the length of time it takes you to get all the parts. Add in how long it takes to run around and do the smokestacks (I know it isn't awful, but it still is something) and you've got an inconvenient staff. Fire is less random, but still a pain. You can NEVER get it before round 8. The plane seems to spawn in around that time as well, but I've seen it as early as 4 and as late as 11. Just as well, having to spend a second time getting kills in the crazy place also introduces an additional hassle. It may be minor, but it still has a level of unpredictability. Finally, the puzzle is different each time. In my opinion it only takes a few seconds to translate, so it isn't terrible, but it is still one more inconvenience. Ice is terribly random. In a good game you can have all the parts before round 4, other times you may not have a single part until round 10. Very impossible to repat. You cannot proceduralize the process. It requires a varied chart of "what if". Just as well, I'd also claim that it's puzzle is the most difficult to complete. It requires a double translation, which may become second nature for some if you do it a lot, but in raw complexity it leads the pack. It's final challenge, is semi inconvenient as well, as it requires you run all over the map, and have a bullet based weapon. Unless it has changed, Boomhilda does not shatter the tombstones. This annoys me greatly. So, when I'm playing a casual game, and I don't have to worry about their power capping out, I personally think lightning reigns supreme. It is the easiest to obtain, to upgrade, and has the most ammo. Also, how does the ice, wind, and fire charge shot react when you do not fire at the ground? I've never checked, but I know lightning still works quite effectively as it slowly moves forward zapping anything near by. You can even move with it, if you'd like the mobile cover. that is my detailed thoughts purely for the idea of a casual game. I suppose a pro high round game, I would need more info on, as waiting another 40 minutes and 2 rounds for a much more powerful staff, would not be a problem.

Reaper is from Germany and has a bit of difficulty when translating his words in English. Ah, fair enough. I stand by my statement as this is a primarily English forum, simply for ease of communication and allowing him to get the answers he wants. But, at least I can respect a language barrier, as opposed to people that speak English, but can only write in "internetz". Sorry for the criticism. If you use a translator program, then I'm sorry it doesn't quite come out perfectly. :P

Wow... he is one of the few YouTubers I actually have heard of too... small world.

I've only run outside Farm with the door closed once. It was insane. Very hectic. Too much for me though. I swear round 30 blew by in just a few minutes. It was a long time ago, back before the Jet Gun was nerfed even further than it already is. It is quite the trade off. DT2, fridge, claymores, and whatever the part may be, for I think, one of the fastest spawning areas in TranZit. The bus royally screws up that area though.

Running the front of farm with farm open or closed? spacially I'd almost agree, although I'd say crazy place is still safer as they don't spawn where you can reach. Speed wise, the crazy place is nice, but the front of farm with farm closed is crazy. Much faster. Or so I think I remember it being.

I have a fondness for the lightning staff, with it's high ammo count, and in my opnion, the easiest puzzles and obtainable pieces. Every game without fail, you can get the lightning staff parts at whatever time you desire, limited only by door prices and the tank price. The switches can be triggered as you first progress to each area to maximize efficiency, leaving the entire upgrading process to playing 3 chords, setting the dials, shooting the orb, and collecting souls. The electric trap like charged shot is quite effective in my opinion, as long as you aim at the ground, or a solid wall. I haven't passed the mid 40s, and I hadn't seen any upper bounds in it's power by then, so for 90% of my games it is sufficiently powerful. The icing on the cake, is most randoms never seem to call dibs on the lightning staff. I always hear Ice or wind, and then ocassionally fire. So I never have to compete with others over it.

I think that'd be an awesome touch. Just have the elemental detailer be the stave slots in the crazy place. Plop your gun in, fill it with souls, and get an elemental version. Kind of goes with the now removed elemental flopping ability.

your structure and writing here definitely could use some improvement, my friend. I think I barely understand what you're talking about. If you aren't complaining about how seemingly difficult it can be to pull the raygun mk 2 from the box in maps other than buried, then I am lost. if so, you do still get the weapon. Sure it is rare, but it is also extremely powerful. It is the most powerful weapon in the mysterybox, with the exception of the sliquifier. Even the blundergat (un modded and not Pack-a-punched) is weaker than the regular mk 2. Heck, on tranzit, I'd argue that it is the strongest weapon (as the Jet Gun is an equipment), along with on Green Run survival maps, and nuketown. Be patient, and work on improving your writing.

I just can't play split screen. it screws me up terribly. I don't know why, but something about having noises and images that aren't directly related to my character, still coming on my TV really messes me up. But other than it not recording leaderboard stats (I guess I don't know if you can start a public match with just you and a split screener, but in BO1, you couldn't do a private match with all local players), Split-screen would be the best of both worlds I suppose. The safety net of another player, instant and simple communication, no lag, the smaller spawns of 2 players rather than 4, and of course, the pause button.

Technically you're both right and wrong. Yes the walls will fall even if you don't build a staff. It doesn't matter if you build the staves, what matters is whether you remove any of the crystals. If you don't remove ANY crystals, the walls never fall. I just played a run with that yesterday because I didn't know about it and wanted to give it a test. Touch any crystal, and the walls start to appear and move, only going away if you complete the entire EE. Agreed though. It doesn't get you past fifty very easily. I'd recommend as heard, boomhilda, ray gun (mk 2 is best) and STG. I think the spawns are actually a decent speed. I was clocking them around 20 seconds at round 20. I think. I'd have to go back and review the footage. However without the staves, round 40 slows to a crawl, and after 50 you're probably having constant ammo troubles. Overall though, if you haven't hit a 50 on Origins, it is a good place to make an attempt.

I must have stacked up too many downs, as I've gotten into the mid thirties on TranZit, MotD, and Buried, and 44 on Die Rise, and I am still a skull. Glad you finally got a dagger though. I'm going to have to try the crazy place for running. To do so, you need to not take any staff crystals, yes?

One thing that most people don't quite realize, is that copyrights, are not very effective. They don't protect against almost anything. Trademarks, and such, those are much stronger. I think... I looked 'em all up one day and did some researching, but that was awhile ago. Apparently I have an automatic copy right on even this post! Anything. It's just difficult to prove things you don't have legally notorized. There would be nothing stopping IW from using a round based survival game, unless Treyarch had some damn crafty lawyers. Hell, even a zombie survival game could probably be tip toed around.

Not an easy task, but I believe if you complete the EE (which can be done solo) and Do NOT enter the portal, the walls permanently stay up top and it becomes the biggest best training place in all history.

It isn't non sequitar, because of course the two maps are similar. The point is, ALL the maps are similar. You have been given many reasons why these two particular maps are no more similar than any other maps. If you believe "that the zombies team isn't even trying anymore", based on the similarities between Origins and MotD, the why didn't you hold this belief two years ago with Ascension? Because clearly they weren't trying there. Der Riese and Ascension are extremely similar maps. At least as similar as MotD and Origins. So either, they weren't trying at all after World at War was finished, or they are trying now. You cannot logically ignore one, and preach the other when looking at those two pairs of maps. To make a point on that which map am I talking about? You spawn in a room with 4 barriers and two potential exits, each going down slightly different paths until converging at the power location. Speaking of power, we have to get there. But be careful! once every 5 or so rounds, a different type of enemy will come and wreak havoc, but if we survive we'll get a max ammo! So after the power, a few other objectives might include unlocking the packapunch by using 3 different stranports around the map to go back to spawn. If you're lucky, by this time you'll have gotten the always insta kill WW out of the box, so you can upgrade it. I'm so glad I'm Nikolai, I love hearing about his drunken misdeeds. The Zombies team did the exact same thing twice. Sadly, I actually think there are fewer nit picky details here, than in yours. Because yes you get a weapon for killing zombies, but a melee and a tactical are two etirely different things. Yes there is a strong boss, and a shutdown boss, but they aren't combined into one guy anymore. The panzer is similar to a mech brutus, but the agarthans that shut down the generators only share the region lock effect with him. To claim that they are the same, or even similar based off of this, would be like saying the Jumping Jacks and George are they same, because both can give you a perk bottle drop. As I said, either, the zombies team never was trying, or they are still trying now. If you decide that they never were trying, then why do you play the games, and come here exactly?

I'm sorry Mocking, but you are using examples that are sketchier than the one's you're claiming don't work. I really can't take you seriously. Yes there are similarities, no not anywhere near enough to claim origins is MotD 2.0. I firmly would say there are no more similarities between Origins and MotD, than there are between Most BO1 Maps, and Der Riese. Quite frankly, until BO2, all the zombie maps had nearly the exact same mechanics. -Super WW available in Box -Super Tacticals in Box (2 for all maps after Ascension) -Some form alternate zombie (hellounds, Theif, Monkeys, or, george, astro, napalm) -A few traps (Most, but not all) -A few transports (teleporters, landers, ziplines, minecarts, launch pads) - the O4 Perks + Mule kick, then adding IN ORDER, Stamin-up, PHD, and Deadshot. (Ascension as the exception without Double tap) -A pack a punch (All though it varied between the maps as a whole, several maps individually are very similar: Kino is similar to FIVE, it is a room teleported to, where you have about 30 zombie free seconds. Der Riese and Ascension are practically identical. Activate the 3 transports to unlock the pack-a-punch for the remainder of the game, Shangri-La and moon are similar, as they require all players to stand in a designated spot, to go to the pack-a-punch, where they are still in some danger.) -Practically the same wall weapons. Other than losing the MP40 in some maps, I'm pretty positive BO1 maps all basically have smg's, one burst rifle, one assult rifle, olympia, stakeout, and M14. -A power switch. (Shangri-La having 2 right next to each other I believe, without any actual difference.) BO1 really only changes the unique zombie slightly, replaces the WW (sometimes), replaces a tactical (Some times), and gives a different map layout. Moon, was the only one to truly add new features with NML as a seperate game mode, and the hacker/excavators as an additional objective. BO2, kept most of this, sure, but each map has had more radical changes than what happened for any BO1 map (Besides Moon) Tranzit was MASSIVE. The Bus is unique. Completely. No equivalent exists in zombies. The tank is close, but not close enough. Die Rise, more droping than previous maps. The elavators introduced a form of uncontrolable short term travel and moving perks. No equivalent exists. MotD. Plenty. New method of downing. Completely unique tactical. Convertable weapon. Secret Meele weapon.new method of powering perks, and a few door ways. Buried, Flying WW. Time bomb. These are unique in arguable ways. Are they more unique than previous WWs? I'd say so. They affect the way you play and move about the map to a large degree. Also, chalk outline positioning is big here. The idot, is really just an AI version of Hacker, so I don't count him, gut he does add some features hacker didnt have. This map however gave up the move mobility. There arent any other maps where jumping is so useful. In BO1, I don't recall ANYWHERE Jumping could get you, that walking couldnt get you in practically the same amount of time. In TranZit, there was maybe 1 required jump. Die rise had some, but they were more drops. Except for the cross map flings with trample steam. MotD didnt have any that I can think of. Origins, unique transporter. The tank is a hybrid between the lander/minecart, and the bus. semi-equivalents do exist. 4 WW, all upgradable through a non-PaP means is completely unique. In fact a weapon upgraded without pap is unique. The Acid Gat is aconverted form of the blundergat, because you can still have the sweeper as the PaP bluder. The Sweeper and the Vitrolic are completely different beasts. They are Not at all similar. Origins also has a rather 7nique buildable system for the staffs with the records and the phonograph, but it is similar to building the sliquifier I suppose. The Generators are unique. The crazy place is unique. We haven't had a dimension with 4 different entraces and exists before. It's like a teleporter that wyou chose the exit point for. The Maxis Drone is unique. The melee is unusual, as I do believe it can strike mulitple zombies, but that is minor. The method of obtaining the Melle is unusual. The Challenges are unusual and unique. The robots, are completely unique. we haven't ever had recurring map hazards, let alone ones that you can climb inside for a brief break from attack. Digging is unique. Wunderfizz is semi-unique. box weapons being wall guns with attachments is unique. This list isn't including that each map had more than one unique non Wonder weapon, and often different wall weapons as well. (Die Rise and buried had the most similar weapon-set with only the Pyton v Remmington Army I believe as unique) I willi admit Origins is the least unique, but it is still many time more unique than all BO1 maps prior to moon. Origins is basically the culmination of everything they think they did right, plus a few added features they thought we'd like too. And they did a damn good job of it. it's layout is near perfect. A little bit of everything is available. it is fun, it has many objectives, yet it can be very tough. It isn't a cakewalk to get to fifty, and it certainly isn't easy to get to 100. It has the best of everything (or so I believe). Quite frankly, I just don't think you're willing to open your eyes and let go of this one (percieved) point of complaint. I don't think any argument could sway you, and as such, I really don't think it is fair for you to engage others on the topic.