Cheesegrater28

One idea that might actually fix the hole is to say that somehow Richtofen just loses his power after Die Rise. The game never really shows anything to suggest this but there are some things that back this up. Like how Tranzit is the only map that kind of explains why the zombies try to stop you even though you might be helping Richtofen. Tranzit is the only map where the zombies wear those collars. Even on Town, Depot, and Farm the zombies don't wear the collars so why are they specifically in Tranzit? This could be to explain how the zombies still try to stop you after you start to help Richtofen. Maxis, who has control over some electrical things like on Moon and the radios in Tranzit, might have found a way to control the zombies with those collars. Thats why they attack you no matter which side you choose. But the rest of the maps after Tranzit don't have the collars. So maybe something happens which causes Richtofen to lose control of he zombies and the ability to teleport the new crew. One explanation could be that maybe the old crew did something. A great feature for this in the next game would be to give us a remake of Moon as an extra map with the game kind of like what Nuketown was. But start it out with a cutscene or intro showing time passing by for the old 4 after the Moon rockets launch. The time between Nuketown and Die Rise. Then play the redone version of the map, but now have an EE that results in the old 4 with Sam in Richtofen's body. The EE would involve the group somehow setting the self destruct on Griffin Station and escaping back to Earth through the teleporter. The explosion of the MPD leaves Richtofen in the Aether but takes away some of his power and control, which is why he can't teleport them around again wand why Maxis doesn't need a way to control the zombies around the world. And instead of the old group going right back to Earth, they get trapped in the Aether as well as the station explodes the Moon teleporter, trapping them in the Origins map. Kind of like a phone cord getting cut on one end. Then after the Origins EE they reach Argatha and the story continues from whatever the final cutscene was supposed to be showing. And Maybe after all that they finally end up coming through the Area 51 teleporter, right next to Tranzit and disable the tower there, robbing whoever is in charge of their power. Maybe.....But Probably not.

The Die Rise loading cutscene shows them teleporting from the Western US to China in the purple light. The game never really does a good job of explaining what happened. Its made to look like Richtofen somehow had the power to do so, but then later we are shown walking the length of Africa to get to the Rift. Just another hole in the story I guess.

Nuketown happens before Tranzit because we see the eyes turn blue that map and the rockets that destroy the world impact after you die. Thats why the sun is still shining through on Nuketown, but on Tranzit it looks like its night time even though the sun is out. Not sure why they would have went to Ascension or Der Reise. Is there anything that made you specifically think they went there? there's nothing saying you're wrong since anything is possible, but just curious what made you think they went to those two spots.

I think the reptile boss round would be awesome in a larger area map. The quick change in atmosphere like the old dog rounds and then big lizard/hunter like mutants jumping around. Would make sticking with your team key during those rounds. One idea for a boss I always thought would be cool would be something that has the kid game "Red Light Green Light" effect. Like at a random round a big boss gets dropped in called Medusa or something. It most likely wouldn't move and only swat you if you go near it, but you want to kill it quickly. It warns you in some way, like taking a deep breath, and then yells for around 4 seconds. During those seconds you need to stand still. If you move just a couple of feet during that scream you are then frozen in place for 6 seconds. You can spin and shoot but can't move in any direction. The scream would effect the whole map no matter where the boss appears and if you kill it, you get a max ammo. Maybe the boss drops in at random intervals around 8 rounds and appears after a few moments into the round to make it hard to set up for.

I too would like to see more powerful bosses. Not on all maps but some just to mix it up. And you can always include an option in custom games to not have them. I would like to see a strong section opening type boss, kind of like the one from Extinction, and an end of the EE style boss. A section boss would have worked nice on a map set up like Tranzit. Instead of having free roam on that map right away, defeating a boss starting from the second location on would have been a good way to slowly open up the map. Something that gets stronger with each stop but is either really slow or immobile. Once its defeated, the path to next stop opens. And to keep it from becoming extremely repetitive, when played in story mode, once you unlock a new section it saves just like the Nav Table, so once you beat the boss you don't have to again in that same spot, as long as you host or the player hosting has it done. But this would be a good way to add to the learning curve when a new map comes out. It might take a group 10 more extra games just to get to the power for the first time on the map. And you could always add the boss in custom mode or just help others beat it if you feel like fighting it again. And an EE style boss could be used on its own map or even the same map as the section boss. Finishing all the steps to the EE will allow the player to have a final showdown with the maps main boss. Something like this would have worked well on Origins. Once you finish the EE, the crazy place completely opens up giving you a large play area. Then the final boss would show up there and the team would be stuck in that one spot till they were dead or the boss was. Defeating the boss would give the players weapon or perk rewards just like other EEs and open up an option to end the map whenever they want to, like Origins. I know some people aren't fans of the map ending EEs, but I like the idea of allowing players an option to work for to end the game instead of everyone dying or just getting bored and quitting. And there could be a special achievement for "Killing the Boss on Round 40+" which would take a really good team some time to do. Imagine having to wait till the higher rounds to finish the last steps of an EE and then fight a boss while fending off level 40 zombies. That's an achievement very few could get.

I would just hope that by the time Zombies does come out, with the next gen hardware and extra year to work on it, they might find a way to improve the game and defend against cheating. People would always find a way, but one can hope. But if you awarded something like that as an achievement with the reward, then you could penalize someone who gets caught cheating or glitching and take that reward away, even if it wasn't during that 20 game span. Would give people in public lobbies something to worry about since other teammates might report them.

KD shouldn't have any reflection of someone's rank. Obviously really good players are going to have good KD. But making people think KD matters is what makes people quit out when the game gets too hard or once they go down once. And it also makes people not want to risk picking someone up because they might take a down and hurt their precious kd. Good players don't need to worry about these things, but we all know that most people playing aren't the good players. So public lobby games are filled with these kinds of players. And making it round based also takes away from some aspects of game play. Like doing challenges or EE hunting. My avg round is probably under 10 because most of my games were probably spent trying to find more to Tranzit and testing things out, which using the bank meant most of those games maybe lasted to round 7. I'm not a top rank player and didn't really care for rank, but those who do will not want to try those things if its going to hurt their overall rank. Thats why I think including some kind of average round over last 10-20 game period rank should be added. The people who quit games because of being worried about their KD will now stay in games longer, since rank is so important to them, and the EE and challenge people can always do their own things, and then for fun, try to earn the top rank for a 20 game period. Maybe even include a feature where if you unlock the top rank, like average round 45 over 20 games without cheating, you can lock that rank in. I'm not saying make this sort of rank the main thing, but maybe have a feature of the emblem or rank indicate this. Like the shield behind your skull would change based on this, or if it was a banner system, the color of the border. Whatever the next rank/emblem system is I think including a small indicator like this would make for better public lobby games. And I love that last line. Making WW kills separate from regular kills would be a good way to kind of punish those greedy kids that yell out "I call the Sliquifier" or "I need the Bludergat or I quit." Really good players will have a ton of WW kills because you need them to get to higher rounds, but I don't see the really good players caring too much since they would still have a ton of regular kills, and maybe this would challenge them a little to hold out on regular weapons as long as possible for fun. But the people who can't make it past round 15 without a WW will be noticeable.

He's actually the worst source of info because he is a proven liar. But unlike regular liars, what makes him so bad is that he does of an inside source that gives him some real info. But that info gets completely watered down with his own theories and stories and cries for attention. So for every 10 things he says, 1 of those things is somewhat true. So just like Wiki where anyone can post anything, Benn's info should always be regarded as false.

Not sure why, but something very appealing and hypnotizing about the design ideas. Love it. Perhaps we can combine it with this design to make a mega site. webdesignIdeas.com

Definitely the VR11. I'm in there with some pressure, and when I 'm done, you're not the same as before... You're changed. Brodie "That is the cheesiest response to an honest question I've ever heard."

Its a really good post. I'm just not sure what to make of the comic pages. As you perfectly show, the major things like holes in pages and images of the next page rarely match. The pages Die Rise and Buried were the specific ones that made me give up trying to make sense of the comic. We had to wait two DLCs to theorize about the ripped corner image on Die Rise, and then when Buried came out, the image was obviously changed. And it wasn't a major change that transformed the image, which makes you wonder why even bother changing it in the first place. Maybe the change is intentional as a clue of something else, like alternate universes or time travel or something, but if that is the case, then why bother analysing anything in the game. Thats the same thing to me as it all being in two kids heads making it up and changing it as they go. So to me, it just seems like the comic pages are made without the detail we think goes into them. As you show, most of the pages look like they start from the same page design and the artist just makes their own changes as they go, without a preplanned goal. Thats why the rips are the same on a lot of them. Laziness. Which is a shame because we all, or at least myself, keep thinking Treyarch are geniuses and everything is intentional. This seems to be another case, as BO2 had a few of these cases, where the zombie storyline isn't as deep and clever as we think it to be. I hope I'm wrong, and frequently am, so maybe there is more to it then I can understand. But as I said above, I saw very little reason for the changes in some of the pages other than just laziness. Different artists doing different pages and not haveing a clever goal in mind.

I'm 100% for a Zombie Treyarch game. They could even keep the same exact formula they have now for every CoD game. Only difference would be they did a zombie campaign instead of another regular save the world from another cheesy terrorist/army leader. I personally didn't enjoy BO2s campaign all that much. Not a fan of the future setting and family tie in. And I hated Ghosts campaign, which again tried using the family soap opera aspect to add emotion to the story. I didn't need Woods to be my brother to care about his character, or Sgt. Roebuck to be my dad to respect him. The family thing was just a cheap way to add more depth to the stories. Just shows the non creative ways Activision is coming up with to try and add new things to the campaigns so they aren't the same thing over and over. instead of making them more like a show on ABC, I'd rather they go in a new direction entirely. A full campaign made around the zombies storyline would be awesome. Don't recycle the old story but build on it. Make the campaign about new survivors and how they are battling through the world right before and after Moon. Its the same timeline as BO2s zombie story line, but a new group that has to fight zombies, groups like the Flesh, maybe other secret military groups like 935 still being around, and other creatures like denizens, Nova crawlers, and new things. And run the campaign mostly like every other CoD one. A linear story line through interesting maps, fighting mostly humans with the other things mixed in. Then have mini game moments just like other CoD games. Sniping moments, where you need to cover survivors fleeing zombies, holding position moments where you set up traps and hold off waves while someone opens a door, vehicle moments where you drive through a battle zone with people shooting and creatures jumping on the car, and so on. We all know the same old action moments in each game. Adding zombies and maybe throwing in some boss battles would make these moments feel new. Maybe adding small moments on a couple of maps where you need to survive 15 rounds in an area before advancing on the map. And then keep MP but now you get to use the interesting designs of the campaign maps. Ones with a darker horror apocalyptic settings instead of the same old helipad, factory, or train and ship yard settings. Maybe even add a couple of new game modes where zombies also appear on the map just to add something new, so campers can't get too comfortable. Or even add grief mode to these maps. Then keep zombie mode the same way its been, with a couple of maps on release. Maybe unlock 1 or 2 from the campaign. And base this mode around the WaW group or BO2 characters, with their own EEs and story line that could be linear or a continuation of the campaign's story. And you could also add the mini games from the campaign to Zombie mode, kind of like the MW2 coop games. Let players do sniping challenges or races with a friend, like MW2, and maybe even add leaderboards to these modes. The only downside to a game like this, is the zombie theme of the game not appealing to as many people. But if you keep the MP mode in it, they would still buy it. People don't buy CoD games any more for just the story, which you could rent and beat in a day. But the zombie campaign would allow more for some new life in the CoD campains, and give the zombie mode the attention it deserves, since its not 1/3 of a team working on a side mode. Its the campaign and zombie maps being created together with the main focus on both. That way, Wonder Weapons, Perks, and new things get the full work and attention they deserve.

Yes. I'd love this. Allow us to create characters so we can individualize ourselves a little. But it should only be for custom games. Custom games could still count toward leaderboards as long as they are on original settings, but custom characters would allow players the option to not listen to the same quotes over and over, and add some individualism to each player. This would be good for Youtubers or people who just like messing in theater mode. And would be fun for seeing what your friends characters look like. But the best part about a feature like this is making special custom parts unlockable via challenges and achievements. Hypothetically If it was in BO2, then maybe things like doing MotDs EE unlocks an inmate jumpsuit for your custom character. Finding the highest spot to jump to your death in Die Rise could give you a pilot helmet, getting 1000 kills with the starting room guns PaPed in one game gives you a 90s Starter Jacket, doing the doors without catching on fire achievement on Tranzit unlocks a firefighter uniform, getting 1,000,000 career kills gives you a John McClain style bloody beater. Dumb things like these that make players keep trying things to just unlock all the hidden clothes.

Ha. I was watching Groundhog Day the other week and in my own head was thinking about how he has to finish his steps to the EE to reach the next day. Catch the kid, fix the tire, play the piano, and so on to break his cycle. Of course those thoughts had to stay in my head since the people around me would think I'm insane. Stupid normies. But MotD is made to seem like it takes place in 1933, but the EE shows time has progressed with them stuck in their place. Stanley Ferguson's recording is after he retires in 1942 (I think he says) so its somewhere after that point on the timeline. There are also some quotes suggesting that Al was in the map first alone before the others were executed. That and his journal are why he seems to have a better idea of what's going on in the map. So he died at the end of 1933, went to the place MotD is in, time progressed a couple of weeks and the others were executed and sent to the same place as him in 1934. Then the EE suggests the world keeps going at least up to the recording Stanley makes post retiring in 1942. So MotD could be anywhere from 1942 and on. Could be 2025. Here is a link to the timeline I was thinking, but this is a theory heavy timeline. http://www.callofdutyzombies.com/forum/index.php/topic/159113-another-long-theory-about-the-zombie-timeline/ One of the the best sources for map dates is Tac's Time and Location thread. He lists specific in game evidence for why each map takes place at specific times, like why Kino takes place after Ascension and Five. http://www.callofdutyzombies.com/forum/index.php/topic/139203-time-location-of-zombies-maps-update-origins/

There are so many things I like about MotD. I enjoyed the characters, the setting, the atmosphere, and the weapons of the map. Electric Cherry was the first good new perk outside of Double Tap 2.0. I liked that we only had a couple of wall weapons to choose from and they were scattered in more than one spot. The new skin for PaP weapons fit the map. The side EE weapons were cool and took more time than normal for people to fully discover. And it sucked that the story didn't clearly tie in with the rest of Zombies, but it was an interesting story on its own. And doing the EE progressed the story, which most of the BO2 EEs didn't do. The EE combined with the hidden coded notes and the characters dialogue, added a lot of depth for players to find. I guess the biggest thing that we could take away from the map was the idea of life after death in the game world (other than zombies) since we are told by the EE that the inmates have been dead for some time. But whether or not the story ties in clearly, it was a good one for that map. I would love the map if it wasn't for two main reasons. Having to do all those steps over and over each game just to unlock PaP, and then having to recollect each part again to reuse PaP was waaayyy too tedious. It was really fun to figure out the first couple of play throughs but it quickly felt like an annoying chore. Then you have the layout of the map which feels alot more linear and stretched then any other map. I feel like I'm running up and down the lightouse over and over each game. I always compare this map to CotD because the two maps had similar areas physically (even though MotD is larger), but CotD made it a lot easier to get around. Opening the map took time and cost money, but as you opened new sections, shortcuts would open that made for a faster travel. MotD really only had the gondola shortcut that you had to pay for and wait on. For these two reasons, the map feels like a hassle to play. I enjoy it once in a while, but never liked playing it back to back, and its probably my least favorite map to play. Which for me was a shame because I did like a lot of things about the map.

Thanks guys. Tex: I considered doing a video because it probably would make the theory easier to understand. Visuals always say more than I can. But to be honest, there's so many aspects of the theory that I'm up and down on. I'm sure that even during the time it would take me to make the video, I'd probably switch opinions here and there. And then when I was done it, I'd still want to change something, small or big. Even Mockings point about the Nacht plane crash is something I haven't considered that has got me thinking. So I'm not sold on this theory completely yet. It poorly explains a lot of things like the Pre Origins letters. I like to rationalize that maybe Sam led them from there Afterlife places into this one since she knew it was a doorway out, but then why would they all be in the year 1918 in different places. Lots of things to debate. Its just the best one that I can come up with using the info from the game and shaping it into a direction I'd prefer the game to go. The reason I like this timeline is because everything still matters and it gives the story a place to move forward. I fell like Kids playing with toys, multi universes, time paradoxs, and some of the other theories, make a lot of the story, old and new, not matter anymore. So I'm sticking with trying to make it all count.

I think his point about Electric Cherry is because its the only perk machine thats supposed to be in MotD. All the rest are flickering and phasing in and out, but Electric Cherry is just there. And it seems like a perk made in the "Hell" or where ever MotD takes place. I don't think there's any way a warden from a prison was making perk machines when it took brilliant scientists 10+ years later to make them. But I do think that the thing controlling the zombies of that map is the same thing that made EC. Thats why its the only perk thats supposed to be on the map. Thats why its only 5 cents and why you have Mictlantecuhtli's head in it and why its the same colors as the Mictlantecuhtli gum on the Nuketown loading screen. I think thats the connection he means when he links it to Origins. The perks could just be there for gameplay elements, but they do usually have a story behind them and why they are there. So EC could be on Origins as a sign its another afterlife type map. Thats one theory I agree with since the maps have a lot more than that in common. Or it could just be there and all those things are in common simply because the same development team worked on those two maps. Who knows.

One big problem with Origins being the end, as in it happens after Buried, is that it would mean we are ignoring one of the endings of Buried. Maxis is going to enter Agartha and let the Earth be destroyed and Richtofen is some how going to save the Earth but use it as his own play thing. So if Origins is the end, then its seems most likely Maxis' ending. So why make us choose two sides and then pick one ending? There are theories for that like Richtofen's ending, or Maxis', resets the cycle and so on, but its still an empty vague story line then for that side. So the setting and point of Origins seems like it should be the start of the story. But out of all the theories for where Origins fits, thats the hardest one for me to understand. How do you take the original 4, set them in WWI, have them fight zombies of German, American, and maybe Russian and Japanese soldiers, and templar zombies, along with Giant robots and armored suits Group 935 made. Then have none of that emerge in the old story line. Group 935 seemed like an independent team of scientists in the old radios. One that Maxis joined with the germans later on to make funds for their work. And even if that can be explained, then how does Group 935 go from this power house of technology in 1918, like building the staffs, armored suits, perks, and Giant Robots, and then 20+ years later, struggling to build weapons like the ray gun and WW and just beginning to look at zombies from the teleporters, as if they don't recall them before. Then there are the obvious weird things like Maxis is dead, Sam is talking to them even though she doesn't exist yet, the Old 4 somehow needing their memories wiped after this, and then the ending with Sam and Eddie as two kids the same age in a room thats set at least after WWII because of the helicopter poster and other small details. One can make a theory for all these things, so its not that its impossible. It being the beginning is just the hardest ending to explain I think. The fact that Sam and Eddie are all of a sudden American is the one big twist that makes me think its all in two kids head's, because there is little other reasoning for the sudden change. But I still refuse to except that kind of ending where nothing mattered.

I agree with mocking. The major downside of BO2s emblem system is that its a ladder system. When the gamemode is all about coop, you shouldn't label players as better or worse then each other. As a result, people were bad mouthing knives, shotguns were called glitchers, people with skulls were told they suck. It immediately causes friction between a team of randoms. And the worst part about a ladder system is that people will do anything to get the top spot. So people will glitch to maximize kills and rounds. Or others will quit once they go down once because they don't want to risk getting downed again without their perks or because its just gotten too hard for them. So now the ranking system is affecting how random games are played, for the worse. I like the idea of an emblem system that shows a players style. make the skull reflect how someone plays. If someone has a lot more revives then others with similar stats, then give them a medic type skull. Someone gets a lot of head shots more then other players, give them a sniper skull. Make a list of about 10 skulls that reflect some ones stats where those stats are stronger. Then make another skull for people who are just starting out so people know they are beginners. And then add two more skulls, one for people caught glitching, and the other for people who either lag out or quit early in a good portion of their last 20 games. Then make the shield in the background a reflection of average rounds for last 20 games. 1-10 would be one shield, 11-17 another, 18-25, 26 - 35, and 36+. And you can have penalty shields like the skulls as well. Then allow players to customize the two objects around the head. Objects that are earned by achievements and challenges. Instead of two shotguns, we could place things we unlock. Get 1000 headshots with the STG then you unlock that gun for your emblem. Do an EE for a map, and you might unlock something for that, like the golden rod. So someone's emblem could be a sniper skull with the 26-35 shield with a bottle of Double Tap on the left side, and a golden SVU (for 10,000 headshots with that gun) on the right side. An emblem like that is fun while still giving us info about a player. Match that with the ability to check someone's stats and leaderboards like BO1, and you should have a good idea of who you are playing with. As far as the in game rewards go, I wouldn't mind seeing those things incorporated in story modes of a map or custom games. But as others said, there needs to be a straight up version of survival for each map. No rewards, no banks, and no perma perks. Straight old school survival where you start with nothing.

Wanted to post and work on my theory about the timeline of zombies. I’ve mentioned different parts of it a few times on here, so sorry for repeating myself, but wanted to put it all in one spot. Mostly so I can try to organize it outside of my own head, and so I can get feedback on things that might be right, and more importantly, the things that are off and wrong. I’m known to overlook things and have brain farts. But it’s something I’ve been obsessed about ever since Origins, needing a way to make everything fit a little better in the story and still have the old story matter. I’ll probably add things to this, but right now I mostly wanted to touch on my main theory about how the Aether and Argatha are the keys to keeping everything relevant. So right now, my ever changing timeline spans three dimensions and looks like this: The loops of the timeline show how some people are reliving moments over and over, but that time continues for everyone else. So time doesn’t repeat and even places don’t really reset. Just the characters and events they are placed in. I’ll explain toward the bottom but right now it might help to think of it like the déjà vu “I’m driving” scene from Nightmare on Elm Street 4. Two people are stuck in a loop while Time is still moving forward for poor Debbie. (Video might be too graphic for some) “The Aether is Mine” One of the most important questions of CoD Zombies is, Exactly what is the Aether? The game’s story touches on it in several instances and we can relate the real world theories of the Aether to the game, but what do we know exactly about it from the game? The biggest two things we know about the Aether are that the MPD somehow grants control over the Aether, and that we’ve been in the Aether when we teleport. We know the second thing because of Der Riese. Written on the wall relatively close to each of the transporters are the words “Return through Aether”. This might have a deeper meaning like Der Riese is somewhere other than our own world or dimension, and we need to return to our world through the Aether, but if we ignore that deeper meaning and focus on the direct reference of it, we can understand the Aether a little better. If we use the teleporters, we will return to the starting room, presumably by traveling through the Aether. So every time we travel through the teleporters, we are briefly moved through this blue spiral place. A place where images pop up. Images of physical things like zombies, hell hounds, Richtofen, and so on. And also images of non physical things. We see the messages of “Help” “Ascend from the Darkness” and we even see images of a periodic table. It’s as if we are traveling through someone’s mind rather than a physical place. We got to experience more of these images on Kino, but more importantly, Kino also briefly took us to physical rooms while we teleported. Two of these rooms being Sam’s room. A regular version and a darker version. Her regular room came with the original 4 as action figures being played with. As if in her mind, this has all been a game to her, hence the points, drops, and other helpful things she gives us while her main goal is still to kill us. Then the darker room with the smashed windows, red glow, and pile of teddy bears laying on the ground with a giant red eyed Teddy Bear standing over it. On Moon, Sam tells us that she isn’t alone in the MPD and something worse is in there with her. So is this giant Teddy bear a symbol of what’s in the MPD with her? Maybe. But the main thing we can take away (or at least I do) from these rooms is that, much like the images we see while teleporting, they probably aren’t real. Even the dentist/torture room and Pentagon room. They are places that are like dreams in Samantha’s head. We step into her little dream about her playing with us, and then we step into her nightmare of how she is with some “evil” being. The other two rooms could be her visions of the actual places she’s seen. Who knows what she has been up to between Der Riese and Kino. We know the Pentagon was involved in making teleporters also, so maybe they got her attention, or the thing in the MPDs. Now if those rooms are just projections of Sams mind within the Aether, then something else important about them is the film reels that we pull out. Film Reels that show Maxis’ experiments. But the films contain messages in them, like the numbers 935. Again, this could be because these aren’t really Maxis’ videos, but Sam’s vision of them. She possibly saw these slide shows and conjured these reels in her head, which the Old 4 pulled out. That’s why the slides are weird, like the 935 logo turning into an eyeball. They contain real info mixed with Sam’s increasingly distorted memory of it. But the key thing is that objects can be pulled out of the Aether by anyone and made real. Then the other major thing we know about the Aether is that the MPD controls it. From within there, Sam can manifest multiple monstrous versions of her dog Fluffy to kill us, even though the thing in the MPD sent one back already with Richtofen’s help. And either Sam, or the other being in the MPD, can manifest the drops for us to pick up. We also know that Sam controls the zombies, but apparently not completely. This is proven when Richtofen enters the MPD. Even when he is in there, he doesn’t have complete control, which is why he needs the new four to build his towers. Now why all this talk of the Aether and things long known about it. Because it’s my theory, and many others, that Mob of the Dead and Origins might take place in the Aether, or at least an alternate afterlife dimension. We know that the MotD characters died in 1933-34, but it is unclear what happened to the old group after Moon. Maybe they died or maybe they teleported into the Aether and got stuck. Who knows. But Origins shares a lot of things in common with MotD. Could be because the same development team made those maps but I think there is more to the similarities than that. And the main reason why I think they happen in the Aether is because just like Sam’s red bedroom, both of these maps seem more like someone’s nightmare rather than a reality. And the previous person we knew in the game who was stuck in a “horrible place” was Gersch, who was sent to another dimension by his own device. “Fetch me their souls.” Now lets talk about death in the game. One thing we know for sure about death is that it’s not the end in the zombies world. Maxis is shot in the head and then ends up in the computer system on Moon decades later. The MotD crew died in 1933-34, but are somehow reliving a loop over and over past Ferguson retiring in 1942. Afterlife mode, Tombstone, and Who’s who are all things that affect a character after they die. So what does it all mean? Well for one thing, the soul in the game is a real thing. Players have outside the body experiences on MotD and Die Rise. And there are ghosts on Buried. But two things important about the soul in the game are that they can be used as a physical form of energy, as the MPD is powered by them, and that the soul retains someone’s identity. Richtofen and Samantha simply switch bodies. And later, Richtofen either ends up in Stu’s body with him, or in the bodies of zombies. So souls, whether they are animal or human, exist in the CoD world. “A Gateway to Argatha.” Now let’s talk about Argatha. Its referenced a few times in the a story, but it’s never really given any detail. Maxis wants to go there, Sam is trapped there, we need to release the souls of the ancients to get there. A lot of non descriptive details. But one detail we are given about Argatha in the game, was that Shangri La was supposed to be a gateway to there. So after Die Rise and MotD came out and we had the loop cycles introduced to us as real things, this made me think of Brock and Gary since they were the first characters we knew of that were stuck in a loop. Even after we help them reach the end of their journey, they restart back at the beginning of them finding Shangri La. And we never talk to them unless it’s during the eclipse. So this paired with the BO2 loops made me rethink that map. What if Shangri La is a gateway to Argatha? What if when we activate the eclipse, we aren’t going back in time, but rather entering Argatha like we are supposed to? I know the achievement mentions time travel, but that could just be because Richtofen explains it in the game as them time traveling. That’s how he perceives things. Doesn’t mean he knows what’s going on. So what if this dark sunless place with a giant meteor frozen in place is Argatha? I can’t really say what Argatha is or who lives there, but it seems to be a place not unlike the Aether. Brock and Gary entered this place and are now stuck reliving a loop over and over till they do the right steps, much like the Weasel did, who was aided by someone to get out. Now what’s the significance of this being Argatha? Well firstly, it shows that Argatha isn’t a magical place inside the Earth, but rather a dimension linked to Earths that is always under an eclipse. If you entered it and saw the sun was blocked, you might think you are in a magical place inside the Earth where the light can’t get to you. A Black Sun. "Schwarze Sonne" as it was written on Der Riese. We also see the symbol for Black Sun on the Shangri La loading screen with the eclipse. So what if the loading screen isn’t showing Shangri La being destroyed. What if it is showing Shangri La being created. Richtofen ends up in the jungle after he was teleported to Moon. Something was taking control over him and needed him to help it. So what if it took him to Shangri La and helped him enter the gateway to Argatha. Then it showed him its power within the Aether and created this place for him. Not unlike how something created the prison for the MotD inmates after they died. Shangri La might have been there already, but this power transformed it for Richtofen within Argatha, and then pulled it back out into our world with him. That’s how his name ended up on the pyramid and why Brock could tell something was wrong about it. And that power is what Richtofen is talking about when he returns to Dr Schuster and why he needs to get into the MPD. The power to not only control the dead, but shape the world as he wants to. Then in Origins, we again see the Black Sun symbol on the “Argathian Knights”. The glowing knights that look human, but on closer inspection, can be seen that they are something else. They are guarding things and trying to stop us. They attack the generators on purpose to slow us down. They are not like mindless zombies that are trying to eat us, but something with a plan. And we also know that they aren’t from the same place where Origins takes place. Even when we go to the crazy place, they teleport in from somewhere else. So what if these creatures are Argathian Knights, or at least from there, and they are trying to stop us from entering Argatha, as Sam wants us to do. This then explains where the final cutscene takes place. We are told if we do these steps we will enter Argatha and help free her from there. We also have creatures with the Black Sun symbol trying to stop us from doing the steps. So once the steps are completed, doesn’t it make sense that we enter Argatha. The cutscene is still weird and I have come up with a few explanations, none of which are solid, but the important thing is, once we enter, we are greeted with the “Black Sun” eclipse outside the window. Then we also hear sirens as if something is attacking, possibly us since we are entering a place that didn’t want us. So the cutscene might be Argatha, but then where does the Origins map take place. As a stated earlier, I think it’s in the Aether. Just like MotD, Origins is riddled with afterlife themes and dead bodies on display in an unnatural way all around the map. And like the Weasel, something is trying to help us escape the place. And lastly, when we do escape, it’s the same way Al escapes. If the other three inmates kill Al on the bridge, we get the white cutscene with “The cycle continues…” and then the camera pans through the prison like a regular match ending. If we let Al win, then we get “The Cycle is Broken” and then Al’s view looking down as he spirals up into the sky. If we do the Lost Little Girl EE, right before the cutscene, just like Al, the camera goes straight up into the air spinning, except we are looking up, not down. And the music for both endings sounds the same. So it’s pretty much the same ending for the characters escaping. But what about how the characters in Origins never let on things like déjà vu or living in a loop or anything about knowing each other? So why have the MotD crew sometimes aware of these things, specifically Al, and then the Origins group has no clue. I think it’s because they haven’t been there as long as the MotD crew. The feelings of déjà vu and their ability to leave notes like Al did hasn’t happened yet. One way of thinking about it is that Al was more like Leonard Shelby with his notes to help while the Origins crew are like Sammy Jankis, just going through the motions J. But one hint we are given about them living a loop is that Samantha states “You don’t even know how long this has been going on. How long we’ve been trapped here.” So if they are living a loop, then why are they in a WWI style map. And I think the answer to that is they are fighting in Maxis’ loop. As the MotD inmates are living in a loop of the night Al died, it might have been Al’s last day, but the other three lived on for a couple of more weeks. So it’s not about last day but rather living in an important moment of their lives and being tortured by it. Maxis, being an older scientist, probably fought along with or aided German troops in WWI. And this might actually be the battle where he and others discovered things that led to his obsession with 115 and Argatha later in life. This is the moment that led to the Giant project and then all the outbreaks. So he is stuck reliving it over and over and then eventually being killed by Richtofen, as he was in real life. And as Al’s journal shows him piecing things together, Maxis’ radios show him piecing together the mysteries of his nightmare. Sam says he never gets as far as we do while doing the EE, so he never reached Argatha, but he eventually learns how to escape from the place and then end up in the machines on Moon and Earth. Then the old crew either dies or teleports and ends up living in this nightmare created for Maxis. So the Maxis drone is still there, but Maxis is long gone. Kind of like how Ferguson is in the MotD nightmare, but in reality he lived on without him. It’s just a shadow of him torturing them. But since this is Maxis nightmare, his shadow helps us in the form of the drone. “Except your fate. Begin Anew!” So if the loops and cycles are a part of these other two dimensions, then why is the New 4 experiencing them in our World? This is because the Moon rockets opened up a rift between our world and the Aether. This is why there are so many weird things happening in the N4 maps, and why all the weird things are happening to the MotD crew. In MotD, modern guns are now in the box and the modern perks start phasing in and out. Electric Cherry is the only perk that’s really there because it was given to them by whoever is in charge of the place. But now that the Rift is open, more perks are there. Same thing is happening on the N4 maps. Nacht is on Tranzit along with some other weird creatures. And the merging might explain the two different times on all the clocks. Then Die Rise is stated to be in Province 22, but we are in Shanghai. Buried’s a haunted western ghost town under an African mine. These oddities are because the Aether is merging with the destroyed planet. This is also why the New 4 are living in loops since that aspect of the Aether is merging with our world. As Die Rise showed, once they die they start again. But not everything resets. Time keeps going. We know this because we can progress our situation on those maps. We can save money and guns and even build the Nav table. Those things don’t reset. Just the characters and their memories reset (along with doors and buildables: things outside of the story elements). Same is true for MotD since Al keeps adding to his notes and journals and reminds himself not to forget. Possible theories and roads that stem from this main theory. Now what does this all mean, if any of it is true? Well for starters, the more I think about this theory, the more some things make sense and other things seem confusing. One thing I’ve been stuck on is considering what other maps take place in our real world and which ones might not. Five is one map that sticks out as possibly occurring in the Aether. It has a black and white intro like MotD, where once everything starts to go wrong, the color kicks back in. Another reason to think this could be an afterlife type map is because of the dates on that map. It seems to occur right before JFK is assassinated, kind of like how MotD is right before they all died. And it also occurs during a storm, again like MotD and Origins which are the two maps I think take place in the Aether. And while I think the map reflects reality, as in the Pentagon was really working on these things and probably had teleporters, the Pack-a-Punch in the meeting room seems out of place. As do JFKs spinning wall of guns. So perhaps this is the afterlife map JFK has been stuck in since he died. This meeting might have really happened in 1963, but there was probably never a zombie outbreak at the Pentagon. If this is what happened, then what year did this map really happen in? Could be 1963-64, and the other three men are shadows like Ferguson was, or it could be after 2009 when McNamara died and he ends up there with the others. Then you also have to wonder when Ascension takes place, since that map occurs during Five, because of the phone calls. And is Ascension taking place in the Aether like Five, since we start out with the screen turning black and white as we are lowered into the map. Maybe we get stuck in the Aether while teleporting. In the beginning of the map, Takeo says "Darkness is the domain of the dead, we must give this place life!". And we know Gersch was sucked into another dimension. And all of a sudden Richtofen is wearing a space suit while demon monkeys drop down from the sky as everything turns red during a dark cloudy night. And the EE ends with us releasing him from this “horrible place”, just like how MotD and Origins ends. So is it in another dimension? Considering that theory then leads me to wonder if the Old 4 ever really jumped through time at all. It seems like we never really go backwards in time but possibly never jumped into the future either. What if we were stuck in Der Riese, a map with an eclipse and clocks stuck at a single moment, living that loop over and over till 1969, when we finally escape that place and end up in Kino. Then Kino, possibly being a regular map, teleports us into the Aether where we end up at Ascension. Then we are stuck in there, during Gersch’s nightmare, till Call of the Dead. That map along with Shangri La and Moon, are modern maps. So if Five did take place after 2009, its possible we were stuck in Ascension till then before escaping to Call of the Dead. And if you wanted to kill more time, you could say we got stuck in the old WaW maps while in the Aether. That’s why they end up at Nacht and Verruckt, and why Mule Kick was added. And being in the other dimension keeps them from aging. This is all one theory if we go down the road of maps taking place in the Aether. Thanks for reading and Sorry about the length. Wanted to use a couple more points and pictures to back up some things, but took forever to type this up and just wanted to get it posted before the internet shuts off or something and I lose it. I'm sure additions and changes will be made since I'm up and down on different aspects of the theory constantly. Thanks again!

I would be hugely disappointed if they just killed the story and started fresh. The next story might be really good and I could enjoy it maybe even more than the old one, but it wouldn't make me forget that they just crapped up a really good story, introduced a lot of things, and then never took them anywhere. I dislike The Sopranos for that very reason, cause all the good story lines went no where and many were left unfinished. It would make me lose a lot of respect for them as story tellers. I still hold some hope that Treyarch knows what they have been doing with the story and that all the details we've been finding and debating about, actually matter. I'm still really bummed about where the story went in BO2 and the complete lack of meaningful info that progressed anything, but I'm hoping they can make sense of a lot of it next game. WaW created a really good foundation of story and BO1 added a whole lot more while progressing events and shining some light on past events. I'm hoping BO2 was just introducing ideas like WaW did, and the next game will do for it what BO1 did. Feed us just enough info to tie some things together, both past and present story line elements, while still keeping a lot of the answers in the dark, and that it leads us up to a real ending.

Can you elaborate more on "time travel"? I think there are some ways that time travel can be used, but those theories, like pretty much every theory, still leaves holes. Biggest being that how does time travel take you from two American kids who are about the same age, to a grown up German Man and a young German girl?

How is he wrong?

Good post. I agree with a lot of this and never really considered how they understand their own death in the game when they go down, but its not aknowledged when they are revived. As you said, to everyone not down that revives them, its like Dempsey reviving Takeo on any other map. Its not a moment of someone dying but to the person who is down, they are aware of it. And then when they all die, their memories all reset. But I have to agree with Tatoo. Their memories reset but their effects on the map don't completely reset. The Weasel's maps and notes show that he documents the loop and has a better understanding of it than the others. Partly because he is smarter than them and partly because he was there before them since he died in real life first. And since he died first and then they arrived, it shows that time is continuing while their loop goes on. As you state, its most likely a post 1940s map. Ferguson has retired in the real world and described the events in his recordings. So we can assume the map is at least 1942. But I think it even goes past that. I think they have been reliving the loop over and over up to a modern date. I think thats what the perks and weapon box show us, why the water tower is there, and the mention of Nikolai's name. As the real world goes on, perks from the real world pop up in the MotD world and so do the weapons. One reason why these things are suddenly phasing into the prison is because the map occurs after Moon. The rockets hit earth, the rift opens, and the real world is somehow merging with the place where the MotD map occurs. This is also why in the real world, the N4 start to relive their own loops on each map. But even they can make progress and save things before their loops restart. We can save money, weapons, and even build the Nav table which saves. So not everything resets. Time itself keeps going. The merging also explains the two different times on the clocks on Tranzit along with why Nacht might be there. Why Die Rise is in Province 22 but the city looks like Shanghai. Why there is an old Western town under and African mine. The Earth world is merging with this other world of the dead. Why we have a Tombstone and WHo's Who perk which affect people when they die and why we fight an actual ghost on Buried. The big question than is what is this other dimension/Purgatory/hell where MotD takes place? And does is mean something bigger to the story than MotD lets on. Once we acknowledge that a map takes place in an alternate reality that parallels our own, than it brings up the question of what other maps do this. MotD's setting a a dark stormy night. Origins is a dark stormy night. And both Origins and MotD have the same ending. If we complete the cycle on MotD, the Weasel escapes by floating straight up into the air spinning. If we break the cycle on Origins, the characters fly up into the air spinning. And the reason I say Origins is a cycle is because one of Sam's quotes is about "Not knowing how long they have been trapped here" or something like that. So is Origins and MotD happening in the same place? Then we can also look at Ascension and Five. Five is another map that occurs during a storm and Ascension is a dark foggy night. Both maps start out in Black and White like MotD and Takeo says something about the dark being a place of the dead on Ascension. And Five is a scene in the Pentagon right before Kennedy is shot, according to the schedule on the map, just like how MotD is set right before those characters died. I've been trying to piece these things together for a while but its all very confusing when you try to commit to one specific timeline. I've been trying to make it as this alternate "Afterlife" place could be the Aether, which the MPD controls. And than whenever the eclipse is shown, it is a sign of Argatha. Like Origins is in the Aether and the end cutscene is in Argatha. But there is still so many pieces missing. And as you said in your first post about the water tower, you expect that Treyarch knows what they are doing when they added it. But than they do things like change the loading screens from CotD to Shagri La and than again from Die Rise to Buried. And then they change accents and appearances. And the Buried cutscene was showing Misty's gloves changing from scene to scene. Its hard to want to analyze small details when sometimes Treyarch doesn't seem to know exactly which way they want to go.

That explains it better. Always hear it referred to as a gas canister but never really looked at it myself. Need to take a closer look next time I play the map.