brett307

+1. It does the story no justice. To be honest I've seen theories like this quite often and I personally don't want Treyarch tampering with our present-day story with a prequel map- if it's going to be about Origins, for the love of Richtofen keep it about Origins.

Seeing as how all their stereotypical personalities are a product of Richtofen's experiments, and the MPD is responsible for Richotfen's schizophrenia/insanity, I'd have to say they will not be the characters we know today. For one thing Dempsey sounds more sophisticated than the jaded marine we know in WaW and BOI, albeit still tough-spirited and foulmouthed ("all around asskicking" mentioned in his letter ). Nikolai will obviously not be drunk anymore, however he will hopefully be just as funny. I agree that Richtofen will still have that losing-his-mind persona, however since this is before he yearned to acquire power he probably won't have that "world-domination-complete-master-plan" personality we saw particularly emphasized in Shangri-La and Moon (obviously). Only Takeo seems to be the same- still obsessed with honor and the Emperor. :D

@Tac: Maybe Takeo was under the impression he was to meet with the Emperor about a different subject of interest? Perhaps the original plan to send him in in October was canceled until Japan could take a more subtle approach (keep in mind the archaeological dig site was also a battlefield of the war, at least according to Samantha). @MMX: The letters are all written in the exact same letter as the suspected counterparts. It's possible, but I doubt Treyarch would give us letters of random soldiers to hype us up for our returning four. However I agree that something is going on with Richtofen- as usual he is keeping something from the others...

@ZotD, very true, didn't think about the trenches or the idea that a battle was literally taking place at the site. Good thoughts! @Tac, I highly doubt that, considering Nikolai mentions the ongoing Civil war and French civilization still being in tact (being offered hospitality and intimacy from other women). If anything it's like ZotD said: Dempsey is actually fighting at the map in the trenches, Nikolai is en route to the site and Takeo has just received orders to undertake the mission.

There's a war going on, you realize. Not exactly the easiest to cross No Man's Land. It's possible they've been waiting months just to be able to move. Nikolai technically isn't even involved in the battle, so he's probably waiting it out, while Dempsey and Takeo are actually out fighting in the war waiting for the right moment. However Tank clearly states he will be at the test site in a few weeks after the 1917 letter. Even if there is a war going on, to predict you will be at the site in September when in reality you arrive months later is quite a time delay.

So we now have an even more consolidated date for Origins: April 14th, 1918-November 11th, 1918. Seeing as how there is dynamic snow falling on the map, I'd assume we are in early October/late September for this map. However, these letters aren't very good with keeping up continuity: Dempsey wrote in September 1917 he'd be at the test site in a few weeks, yet it is shown he is still traveling there in April 1918. Weird... On a side-note, the cinematic shows Nikolai wielding an axe- could this be the same axe that would later behead his fifth wife? Perhaps he kept it after the map's events as a battle trophy. Just a thought...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxW6QbnblSs Have fun bud.

I'll be a little disappointed if they're the same exact people. But I trust Treyarch because its their story, not ours. Even though without this community, we wouldn't have gotten the story. That's generally what they do: each map they give us some Easter Eggs and unresolved plot elements that are left to us to resolve and after seeing common theories on multiple sites (including this one!) they often develop it into the official plot. The most famous example was after Shi No Numa when someone reported hearing a zombie say "SAM!" on the map. The team apparently saw this post and said to each other "let's make a Sam!". On Der Riese we got to hear the voice of Samantha Maxis, the daughter of Ludvig Maxis. Many started to believe she was the voice heard when obtaining a Power-Up and the Teddy Bear. Next map when a Power-Up is obtained, Richtofen says that Samantha is behind it. Things escalated from there. :P

I'm very glad you started this! With the O4 being gone for so long I've never really gotten the chance to examine who these characters are beneath their stereotypes. I think it will be really interesting to see how they act in their pre-brainwashed personalities, seeing as how each character's personality in WaW and Black Ops I are conceived from Richtofen's experiments: Nikolai can only function with vodka, Tank was given anger issues and Takeo's mind was broken into making him only speak in quiet proverbs.

I agree. No problem. I used to like Takeo the best until Shangri-La when we found he killed his family. He might've had a good reason. They could've been traitor Nazis for all we know... but then again they could've just made the rice wrong... who knows... Tank on the other hand, he killed innocent/relatively-innocent people, but it was for a good cause, right? So out of all the horrors, he's done the least. But my favorite will always go to Samantha. The only people she killed were murderers (Richtofen's gang). She was just a sweet, innocent child that got mixed up in all this. Even when she's corrupted, she's less wicked than them. It's why I'm so glad Samantha's back. I just wish the voice-acting was better. But I'll hold off my judgement on that until the map comes. I believe Takeo said that they're dishonor disgraced him as a warrior, which is why he killed them. Nikolai killed at least six of his nine wives and Tank murdered somewhat innocent/unarmed others. And we really don't need to go into Richtofen... I have never really thought about the irony of these characters: they are monsters fighting monsters. :shock: As for Samantha, I totally agree as well. All the outbreaks take place at locations furthering the research of Group 935 (the Pentagon, Ascension Cosmodrome etc). She was only fulfilling her father's dying wish- to ensure their work is never completed.

Takeo did indeed murder his family for their "dishonor", so you have a point. No one ever said this band of misfits was ever heroic- in fact, they were unknowingly aiding the antagonist the whole time! :P

Nikolai mentions having a total of nine wives (the ninth was apparently killed during the Earth's destruction, according to Nikolai on Moon). Finally the time has come to put my "Nikolai's Wives" Word document to good use! Wife #1: Killed with a shotgun (perhaps the good woman he mentions in the letter?) Wife #2: Killed by either a PPSh-41 or PTRS-41. Wife #3: Never found quotes about her...anyone find anything? Wife #4: She may have actually escaped, however an Ascension quote implies that he chased her down and strangled her. Wife #5: Beheaded with an axe (this murder was what prompted Stalin to drop Nikolai from political status). Wife #6: No idea. Wife #7: Could still be alive, as Nikolai mentions on Moon he wishes to tell his 7th wife he finally made it to the moon. He also had an affair during this marriage. Wife #8: I think I may have heard him say he accidentally killed her (but later whispered she was a bitch), but that may have been a different wife. Wife #9: According to Nikolai, she died during the missile launch (of course this is debatable depending on Moon's date). EDIT: Wife #3 definitely died, but faced her death with courage, at least according to Nikolai. Wife #4 was indeed strangled, and apparently took many other lives with her in the process (I'm imagining a huge woman slaughtering everyone in her way while being chased by a drunken Nikolai )

We were talking about it a few pages ago. Not sure why everyone sort of ignored it after, though.

Great stuff! I agree, the zombies we saw were definitely Knights Templar, however the ancient ruin 935 was excavating appears to be Neolithic judging from the architecture. PINNAZ made a great thread about it I recommend you read. Some cool stuff is in there.

"'Scuse me, just getting used to the Aether! Wreaks havoc on the pipes. Ah, right." -Richtofen from the Aether Since Samantha's voice sounds horribly different than the cutesy eight-year-old voice we were shown on Moon, I suspect she is in control of the zombies during Origins. How? I have no idea, but Treyarch will have some explaining to do. LOTS of explaining to do. The new Nikolai note gives us a consolidated time-frame for Origins: Feb. 23rd, 1918-Nov. 11th, 1918. His comments about a woman could suggest France was where he found wife #1. :lol:

I was seriously shouting "OH SHIT!" the whole cutscene.

I meant to mention that as well: inside the ancient ruin the zombies eyes were purple, however when they charged the trenches they were all glowing Samantha-yellow. I 100% agree that purple is their default color, but I believe that somehow Samantha is in control- even her voice sounds as though she is in the Aether! "Still getting used to the Aether- wreaks havoc on the pipes!" -Richtofen Regardless, I am ridiculously excited for this map.

Anyone else get some serious goosebumps just now? So first-off it looks as though Samantha was in control this whole time, and perhaps during the Easter Egg we will learn of how she has gained control. This will require some explaining seeing as how she shouldn't have even been born yet. This also reveals some very interesting information on Element 115. It's obvious that's what they were unearthing in the first place, seeing as how they quite literally excavated zombies. I have a feeling that 115 may have some connections with Vril and Agartha, seeing as how it had been buried for centuries. On a side-note, we also have a look at the face of Maxis, a very important (and my favorite) character, and we know that group 935 did exist at least in Sept 1917 (the Letter speaks of a group excavating a site, which is now confirmed to be Group 935).

Awww, I was just getting ready to add my nonsensical response! :cry:

It's actually because Richtofen was never truly insane until he touched the MPD on the moon, which triggered him to become schizophrenic and drove him to insanity itself. However, he was known to be a deranged back-alley surgeon during the reign of the Wiemar Republic and his sadistic nature is what provoked him into joining the Wehrmacht. So I'd say there's a good chance he will be insane, and a good chance he won't. It's 50/50.

Origins takes place 14 years before Sal DeLuca was even incarcerated to Alcatraz. And as Mocking said, the O4 were not even present in Buried... I think you may be confused.

Group 935's insignia is a human hand clutching an atom within a circular shape resembling a gear. I believe it is made to represent 935's overall goal: to achieve great science and harness it industrially for the good of mankind.

Just sayin... :oops: My bad!

I don't recall there being any evidence whatsoever that says the fingers on the Group 935 insignia are MDTs. Test 151 was part of a series of MDT experiments conducted by Dr. Richtofen and Dr. Schuster at the Der Riese facility and the first recorded experiment conducted by Group 935. It doesn't have any relevance with the logo.

yup I moved 'em together. hope that's okay with you guys! so is it purple eyes, or blue eyes? the TranZit blue eyes look MUUUCH different from this chainmail zombie. If it is indeed purple, I am very excite. Ethereal energy, vrill ya, power from another dimension - this map is shaping up to be uber epic. Yeah it definitely looks like it's in a tomb, also - Knights of the Templar aren't the Knights of the Round Table. There have been many connections to the Illuminati, and thus could tie back into the Knights of the Templar/Freemasonry. It's possible the Knights of the Templar could have been guarding an ancient evil, of course this is all just theory - but I wouldn't write it off so quick. Whoops, sorry Grill, just making a joke. The Knights of the Templar definitely have some Freemasonry ties, so it's quite possible they were established to protect this "ancient evil."