NaBrZHunter

Welcome aboard, mateo! So glad you could join us! Is not 'zombie death' a sort of paradox, however? ;)

Great work, admins. Y'all are champs. Thanks for the update!

Sure @FatedTitan. Final radio, Der Eisendrache.

Thanks man! As before, thanks for helping me grind through the details, even if we came to different conclusions. :P In regards to your first point, if we can prove that energy and souls are are separate (though cooperating) properties of a conscious being composed of matter, then those quotes would all be a slam dunk, which brings me to the challenge you present with your second point: I need to prove that souls and energy are different properties, just as white and red blood cells may all be blood cells, yet are different properties intermingled and cooperating. So notice how, in Buried, Maxis refers to the lantern being a "vessel for energy; the energy contained within ALL matter." Yet in order to charge it, we proximity kill zombies. Maxis continues, as you quoted, "departed souls leave residual energy in their wake. This energy must be used to fuel the lantern." Therefore, it does not seem overly far fetched to say that that, since said energy is contained within all matter, yet not all matter has souls, that while both may be unleashed from the body after death and may have actually been related and cooperative in life, they are not the same thing. So let's use something slimy as an example - how about a snail? As a snail makes its way across a surface, it leaves a residual trail. What the snail leaves behind is not snail, but mucous that helps it to move without legs or other conventional means. The soul, also, seems bound to the body by life force; so that when the soul is released, the residual life force is also unbound. Note, he does not say, that a soul leaves residue behind, but rather that it leaves a residue of energy behind it. Also similar to the way a passing car leaves behind exhaust. It is not leaving behind car, it is leaving behind the residue of the fuel that had previously moved it along its course. @FatedTitan did I say controller? Oops, yeah, definitely not Sam. I was thinking Keepers too, except not from within the MPD, but from a perhaps more central distribution unit, if you will, that can distribute to multiple places via multiple MPDs. This theory is heavily based on 1) the voices Richtofen originally heard on the Moon after his discovery and 2) Groph and the staff hearing Maxis' voice coming from the MPD despite it being unoccupied prior to Der Eisendrache.

Great questions, guys. I've never watched much of Rad's stuff, so unfortunately, I couldn't think of anything, but this is a great deal and I look forward to having him on our show! Just bummed I won't be available on Wednesday!

I would actually be totally cool with that, TBH. I'd really like to find out more about what's up with "THE VOICES! THEY SCREAM!!!" -Richtofen 'cause we're under the assumption that the voices Richtofen hears actually kinda tell him what he needs to do to enact his Grand Scheme or something, right? So yeah, to say that what Samuel is hearing is the zombies is actually...kinda a stretch and contradictory. Only the controller of the MPD should be audible via the communication "wavelength" or whatever it is of 115/MPD technology. So actually, sorry for thinking out loud, but I think I can agree with you on that. I'll be honest, though, when I saw you had commented and the detail of your reply, I started sweatin bullets hoping I had the right materials to respond.

Good points! But yes, crazy Richtofen makes several mentions of energy. Since I'm on the forum and can go even deeper than I do on YT, I'm also gonna introduce an argument regarding Groph pertaining to the rat. And don't get me wrong! The fact that zombies actually still have their souls trapped within them even in their undead state is one of the most fascinating elements to the story, IMO. I am not trying to disprove souls' existence within the zombies universe, only that they cannot be used as a source of energy. In Moon, when the rat is killed, Groph says, "I think we've just descovered what powers this machine." Some people argue "well, he might believe that animals have souls" or simply "animals have souls, too." But if we consider the conditions and probability surrounding it, along with Groph's flow of logic, the idea that he has "realized that souls power the machine" is actually more of a stretch than the alternative. We must consider that Groph is, first of all, European. German, to be exact. Whatever belief system he had it was, considering 1940s' Europe and his age (well past 40, meaning he was born in the 19th century) most likely either Lutheran or simply athiest/agnostic. During the murder of the prisoners during the initial power-up of the MPD, he says with great conviction "God have mercy on us all," which leads me to believe that although he is generally "non-practicing," he was likely raised Lutheran and upon being so inwardly shaken, it comes out for a moment. So why is his religion important? Well, in general, the belief that animals have souls is an Eastern mindset, and is expressly not a Christian mindset, and certainly not the mindset of an atheist who does not believe in an afterlife or Christian-raised agnostic. So to say that Groph "realized" that "the rat's "soul" just entered the MPD" is highly unlikely considering his background. Further supporting this is the fact that Groph's mindset logically proceeds to: we must kill people beside the MPD reinforces the idea that whatever was powering the MPD was/is a shared property of living beings, namely, energy. And a living human body possesses far more kinetic and potential energy than a rat does. So instead of requiring a massive shipment of lab rats (certainly not in short supply in 1940s' Germany), Groph decided to focus on a more efficient target which was to be had in large quantities, thanks to the war. We're talking about a delicate solution here, and Groph has made an executive decision to change solutes. Now, Richtofen says in Moon "the Machine is powered by life force! How could I have forgotten?" Which, of course, could be stretched to fit "soul," but again, based on the plethora of quotes since then, as well as considering the previous analysis of Groph, energy is a far more likely conclusion. Moving on, to the contrary, the lantern does work much the same way. Maxis describes it as "a vessel for energy; the energy contained within ALL matter." Note crazy Richtofen then says, "departed souls leave residual energy in their wake. This energy must be used to fuel the lantern." From there, the process is very reminiscent of Moon. Zombies a killed, and the lantern "dings" with each kill. Now, that is not a canon assumption, I don't believe, but even if it were, the original inhabitants of Shangri-La would be human, and of course, composed of matter even if they weren't. Now, they would not be just energy, however, it would be their matter being converted into energy, per E=mc2, and based on quotes from Maxis and Richtofen both in their original and Origins forms, take, for instance, Maxis in Die Rise: "Vital energy flows through all things." Richtofen and Maxis in Buried: "Departed souls leave residual energy in their wake. This energy must be used to fuel the lantern." Richtofen in Origins and Maxis in Buried: “Energy cannot be destroyed, only transferred.” And then, it's interesting to note that even the Buddhist, religious Takeo who has nothing to lose in the eyes of the scientific community, acknowledges that the boxes in Origins are fueled by energy: “Every demon that falls provides more energy!” The fact is, Treyarch seems to be incessantly driving home the point that energy is the solution in these cases. "Maxis calls it a wisp. All it really is is a big ball of life force." -Richtofen, Buried "The machine is powered by life force!" -Richtofen, Moon I wouldn't believe that the Die Rise voices are him, since he can hear both those voices and Richtofen's voice clearly. I can't say that the voices he's hearing are absolutely the zombies, though I feel the conditions indicate that would be so. "Telepathic" sorts of communication can be achieved when people are highly exposed to 115 (Richtofen, the test subjects and Samantha, Maxis and Samantha in Origins, Samuel and Richtofen in Buried, and so it would seem, Samuel and the zombie souls crying out to be killed and released, as in The One). I'm not sure what else we may see in regards to souls, but souls as a source of power just doesn't have concrete foundation.

D'awww. He he he. I would love to collab with @FatedTitan. Definitely one of my all-time favorite theorists, and a great pal. Master of EE song analysis, which is one of my favorite things in zombies, no question. "The One" is the reason I am a story fanatic.

Ah! Excellent post. The N4 certainly weren't the best of characters, but I always liked that about Samuel.

@Doctor Richtofen My name is NaBrZHunter and I approve of this message. :) Sure! You would be most welcome.

@anonymous Yep! I'd be happy to give Tranzit a go with you. Apologies for my distance, lately. Things have been kinda nutzo! @Lenne Thank you! Meaning CoDZ? If so, yep, I'm 100% CoDZ, straight from the shadows. :) @Spider3000 Thank you, kind sir!

Welcome aboard! As someone involved in YT, myself...I must say, it's a lot of work. So try to find out what you're getting into as much as possible. However...you never know - there may be an opportunity for you to jump into a stream with our CoDZ team! Follow us on Twitter if you haven't already (@CoDZombieforum) and hit us up next time we have a stream!

Welcome aboard! So glad you've found us! So good to see more vets from the good ol' Black Ops days. And don't worry about your English - always feel free to ask for help from anyone out here if you wanna be sure of something grammatical. We're more than just a zombies site-we're a community who takes care of each other. BTW, we actually have several other members whose first language is not English, but who have become reknowned for their contributions. So we look forward to seeing you in the threads! Again, welcome!

Okaydoke. Please submit a bug entry here, and the Admins should get back with you. http://www.callofdutyzombies.com/index.php?/bugs-suggestions/ As a workaround, I recommend perhaps allowing your Twitter account to access the forum. Click on your name in the upper-left, click "Account Settings" -> Twitter, which will take you to a page which asks: Authorize Invision codz sign in to use your account? Enter your user id and password and click "Sign In." Afterwards, you should always see the option to "sign in using twitter" on the CoDZ Login dropdown. Good luck! -NaBrZHunter

@EpicSkittlez did this issue get resolved for you?

@funkydisciple hey pal, been awhile. Milo finally came out with the whole story in 5 minutes, and while I am working on a full storyline, myself, this should help.

Straight outta Der Bunker scriptworks, my friends. For those of you who watch my videos, my apologies for the delay. Clearly not uncommon for life to get in the way of my channel, sadly. All the same, this is my home and I figger I ought to share what I've been working on, as I feel it's worth discussing. So without further ado...straight from the studio: Way back in 2011, with the discovery of the radios on the Black Ops 1 map, moon, it was revealed that Dr. Edward Richtofen’s renegade Group 935 scientists, after several years of work, had finally unlocked the secrets of the Moon Pyramid Device, better known as the MPD. The process of powering it, however, was as controversial as it was groundbreaking. Dr. Groph, the lead scientist at Griffin Station, along with his assistant scientist, Dr. Schuster, killed a lab rat in the vicinity of the MPD, and for the first time since its discovery, the ancient machine responded. Moon Audio Reel: Dr. Groph: Log 1075. Dr. Schuster and I have spent countless hours with the pyramid device in an attempt to understand how it functions. We have made little progress... until now. Today we uncovered what appears to be some kind of tank with a glass-like front. The glass itself seems- Dr. Schuster: I've got you now rat! Dr. Groph: Kill it Schuster! *Squishing sound followed by a whooshing sound* Dr. Schuster: Did you see that? Dr. Groph: Look! The capacitor is illuminated, the tank is filling- Dr. Schuster: The machine. It seems to be activated! What did you do? Dr. Groph: I think we just discovered what powers this machine. When the news reached Dr. Richtofen, he sent a large shipment of prisoners to the moon base with orders for Groph and Schuster to kill as many as necessary to open the device, preparing it for an inhabitant. Though appalled by the orders, Groph followed through, and the MPD was finally prepared for Richtofen’s grand scheme. Moon Audio Reel: Dr. Edward Richtofen: Griffin station. This is Eagle’s Nest. Status update. Over. Dr. Groph: Hello Doctor. We have the shipment, and are carrying out your orders. *Gunshot, grunting, and a whooshing sound are heard* Dr. Groph: It is grim work Doctor. Dr. Edward Richtofen: All in the name of science Dr. Groph. Continue until the tanks are full. Dr. Groph: Yes... Doctor. *Gunshot, grunting and a whooshing sound are heard* Dr. Groph: May God have mercy on us all. During this process, as replicated in the Moon Easter Egg, as the zombies are killed in proximity to the MPD, the glass tanks gradually fill with a bluish hue. This theory seems to have somehow entirely neglected the plethora of quotes that have debunked it over the years. It suggests that the bursts of light or "swoosh" sounds are souls being released from their zombified bodies, only to be trapped and used to power the MPD. So I believe the first question we should address is, do zombies even have souls? The answer is absolutely, “yes.” One of the first ever Easter Egg songs by Kevin Sherwood, “The One,” featured in Shi No Numa introduced the concept of a sort of (what you might call) buried sentience and cognizance, sung from the perspective of a zombie’s soul, trapped inside its body which acts violently against the soul’s will, driven by primal instinct and lust for blood, while the soul inside begs to have its body killed so it can escape. Later, the theme made a resurgence in Tranzit with the Easter Egg song “Carrion,” emphasizing the zombie’s enslavement to the neurological synapses forced upon its brain by the occupant of the MPD. NOTE: There has recently been posted on this site a contrasting analysis of "Carrion" by @FatedTitan. Recommend reading: So, yes, canonically, zombies have souls. Let’s move on to debunking the theory itself: are souls ever used to power anything in the zombies universe? Interestingly enough, it has never been said that souls can power anything. Direct quotes from Dr. Maxis and Dr. Richtofen (who we can safely assume to be the primary authorities on such subjects) explain that it is...more scientific than that. There is an explanation other than simple “supernatural” dark rituals. Richtofen's own quotes, taken from Origins, seem to quickly debunk it: “I believe only in science.” “Their energy is being refocused!” "It is the transformative power of 115! It draws energy from matter, living or dead!” -Dr. Richtofen, Origins So..energy. The MPD, the “Soul Boxes” from Origins and more are powered by matter converted into energy. In fact, there is even a quote from Dr. Maxis in Buried that confirms that the soul has already departed by the time the energy manifested as a ball of light even appears. “Departed souls leave residual energy in their wake, this energy must be used to fuel the lantern.” -Dr. Maxis, Buried Other quotes from Maxis reinforce this further: “The Lantern is a vessel for energy: the energy contained within all matter.” -Dr. Maxis, Buried Notice how Maxis emphasizes that the energy needed is contained within all matter, not only in beings occupied by the sentience we know as a “soul” or “spirit.” By this we can see that some technology in the zombies universe converts matter into energy, reflecting Albert Einstein’s famous concept expressed in the equation E=mc^2, which states that any object with mass has an incredible amount of potential and kinetic energy. The point being, while the technology in the zombies storyline can get scientifically farfetched, to say the least, there are still references to actual scientific principles in the story. In fact, both Dr. Maxis and Dr. Richtofen refer on several occasions to the first law of thermodynamics. “Energy cannot be destroyed, only transferred.” -Richtofen, Origins / Maxis, Buried So all along, the flashes of light we’ve been seeing is the conversion of matter into energy, and the transfer of that energy into devices that can put it to use. Even the Origins staves are no exception “Nothing can withstand the flood of energy that flows from this staff! The ancients knowledge, harnessed by the power of research. The day approaches when science will master all elemental forces.” -Dr. Richtofen, Origins What about maps like Shadows of Evil, however? “Fractional shadows of reality” as the Shadow Man so eloquently described it. During my research, I was actually surprised to find that EVEN IN SHADOWS OF EVIL, when Jessica is charging the Apothicon egg the energy concept remains consistent, while the word “souls” has never once been used. “The egg seems to be drawing energy from the dead. This is heavier than before. Must be all that energy it sucked up.” -Jessica, Shadows of Evil So, souls are not used to power anything, but they do exist in the zombies universe. So what role do they play? The disembodiment of souls goes back all the way to Moon as well, but is very different in nature from the proximity killing of zombies. The MPD and related Vril devices such as the Golden Rod, the Black Moon Egg and the Apothicon Rift Stone, AKA the Summoning Key have served to transfer and retain disembodied human souls. As seen in Moon when Richtofen enters the MPD by swapping souls with Samantha, as well as in Der Eisendrache and Zetsubou No Shima when Richtofen salvages the souls of Dempsey and Takeo, this technology allows sentient beings to exit their bodies and occupy machines. And yet even this is more reminiscent of science fiction than mysticism, resembling the ancient extraterrestrial technology described in 2001: A Space Odyssey. “They [the extraterrestrials]...were not yet immortal. Soon, as their machines were better than their bodies, it was time to move. First, their brains, and then their thoughts alone, they transferred into shining new homes of metal and plastic. In these, they roamed among the stars. They no longer built spaceships. They were spaceships.” -Arthur C. Clark, 2001: A Space Odyssey

I must say, I appreciate the effort you put into this, but unfortunately, what you heard was "Dr. Schuster," Dr. Richtofen's friend and junior scientist.

@DeathBringerZen @GRILL @Hells Warrrior @anonymous Thanks again, fellas. I aim to never let this community down. :) @Doctor Richtofen Double thanks! Sorry for the delay on my much-hyped next video...it's hard finding a team for the Tranzit saga of EEs. :P @Boom Heard, Uncle Boom. I will not forget. :) But wow. That pic. LOL!!!!!!! Literally had a double-take.

Still looking badass, I don't care who it's up against. Can't wait.

Honestly, I have a deep dislike for both the Apothicon Servant and the bows, and prefer to never use them. Forced use of a wonder weapon on a low round like 15-20 has never been a thing in zombies before until now. I'm talking running a standard MG loadout. It's not that the shield hasn't helped me ever, it's that sometimes the problem isn't so much that protection is needed as you are completely unable to move. Bahaha! I gotta have a chuckle and say this is fair. I'm sorry. :) Have you shared your zombies story yet? What's really funny about this is the number of people (including my wife) who have zombie-phobia, but have eventually overcome it as they've become accustomed to CoD Zombies. So there you have it. Use ZNS to overcome your fear; 'cause honestly, they re as perfectly themed for the map as Fluffy was for Der Riese or Monkeys were for Ascension. If you haven't yet, though, share your story in the thread linked below:

This is SO MUCH MORE FUN than watching videos. I haven't felt this sense of accomplishment since Der Riese and some of Moon before I even knew there was a community or videos at all. I may cave at some point if we don't make any progress on the EE, but so far, we've been pretty successful in finding stuff. We'be found something new every game. The shield doesn't really help you, though, if you're stuck in a corner or if you have a train sprinting after you, and a prediction re-spawn jumps over a barricade at the end of a narrow passage you are running through, slap you in the face 3 times and (only 1 zombie) pin you against the wall while the train destroys your shield. Less of a problem in ZNS, for some reason, as the textures feel more designed to avoid that kind of encounter, but not impossible. Honestly, I don't miss the shield in The Giant, though. I'm less of a fan of The Giant, anyway, and would rather play it on BO1 or WAW.

It's the frking whirlygig zombies, man. They are the cancer of Black Ops 3. I understand and kick myself when I make a tactical miscalculation; but when I empty a whole HVK clip into 3 oncoming zombies, but one happens to be so close that he whirlwinds me at the last second, that pisses me off. The zombie hit rate needs to come down. It's killing the casual replayability of BO3 for me. Not only that, but also their 1:1 rotation rate. You move 1 point to the left, the whole train moves 1 point to the left, you move 60 points to the right, you're still staring them in the face. In fact, I had one turn a 180 from chasing someone else and slap me full in the face in a half second tonight. Thankfully, I got away, but that was just a reminder of how terribly imbalanced the rotation rate is. They also used to slightly slow when hitting you. Now they seem to continue to run until they have pushed you as far into another object as possible, leaving you with no mobility except slightly turning side to side, waiting until they reach around the shield. There have been multiple occasions (especially on the DE PAP platform and tonight against the protruding corner of a lone boulder on ZNS) in which I might as well just put down my controller until my shield breaks, since turning to try to shoot them will only down me sooner. Also, the number of Berserkers is exhausting. A few can be fun and challenging, but half a train of them is overkill.

We've found 3 types of water and completed all buildables and the specialist weapon. So, pretty good so far.

Ah, I see. Odd, though, 'cause @Doppelgänger and I didn't even know that was a step at first, but eventually, we got it and usually are set up by round 16, short maybe 2 perks. And I get it now - yeah, now that I remember, some areas in the bunker are pitch. But man...I would PREFER they add a flashlight attachment option for guns. @Treyarch L4D had it...and we have lighting option is theatre...so please? :D I still can't agree about the colors, though. Zombies has always been a gritty, dark game. It would be a shame to abandon that. Even the humor and animations have always had a dark undertone.