NaBrZHunter

Naw, it's not proof. I'm just trying to think objectively. All the evidence would point *more* towards him being dead than to him being alive and escaped. Perhaps Richtofen, though still considering him 'broken', has another experimental use for him and I am wrong. Its just that historical precedent would imply that he is dead.

Naw, the Mexican died before Dempsey ever arrived. No Richtofen says he thinks he killed him because he removed his spleen and he isn't moving. He could be alive for all we know, you can live without a spleen just lowers your immune system. Also look at old forums to see if we miss looked at something. This was widely speculated. I have been...of course, there is no other known record of him whatsoever from Zombies itself, other than those two radios. I will say this, however: it wasn't like the Nazis to keep a weak prisoner alive. They pretty much used them to the maximum, and executed them if they were effectively useless to them. The Nazis weren't known for their charity. So taking that into consideration, I think it's safe to say the Mexican is dead. Who says he was a weak prisoner? His spleen was gone, that means nothing about death. He could've escaped for all anyone knows just because someone in a radio describes something doesn't mean it happens how you expect it. Well, Richtofen had apparently performed unanathesized surgury on him and forcefully removing his spleen (he was apparently moving before-presumably writhing in pain. He basically passes out, then, from blood loss and pain. Richtofen says he is 'broken,' which is why he has him replaced. So even if he was still alive, Richtofen "The Butcher" probably wouldn't have much inclination to keep him.

You can't just say things like that so broadly when time travel is a factor. From a Christian perspective, you are absolutely right. But from a purely scientific perspective of status quo, matter cannot be destroyed, and I'm pretty sure Treyarch wouldn't violate one of the best known laws of matter. Please note-I have no intention of coming across as smart-assed. I geuinely believe that. They seem to do a lot of research into their science fiction, the same way they do with their political and mechanical fiction. Technically even when there was nothing there would've been god. Just saying XD :tips hat: lol

Naw, the Mexican died before Dempsey ever arrived. No Richtofen says he thinks he killed him because he removed his spleen and he isn't moving. He could be alive for all we know, you can live without a spleen just lowers your immune system. Also look at old forums to see if we miss looked at something. This was widely speculated. I have been...of course, there is no other known record of him whatsoever from Zombies itself, other than those two radios. I will say this, however: it wasn't like the Nazis to keep a weak prisoner alive. They pretty much used them to the maximum, and executed them if they were effectively useless to them. The Nazis weren't known for their charity. So taking that into consideration, I think it's safe to say the Mexican is dead.

You can't just say things like that so broadly when time travel is a factor. From a Christian perspective, you are absolutely right. But from a purely scientific perspective of status quo, matter cannot be destroyed, and I'm pretty sure Treyarch wouldn't violate one of the best known laws of matter. Please note-I have no intention of coming across as smart-assed. I geuinely believe that. They seem to do a lot of research into their science fiction, the same way they do with their political and mechanical fiction.

Hahaha! Exactly. Actually, fill me in. Why does the wisp prove that they always die? I'm not doubting it, I just don't know much about the wisp. I'm listening to all their quote compilations, but I haven't made it to Buried yet.

Ahhhh...so that's what what you're saying makes so much sense. LOL! Great point. Brains to you. Thanks for bearing with me. I'll have to think this over more, but you have a great open-minded viewpoint.

Once again, I like your thinking. Right, a cycle is created at Die Rise. One end to the cycle is their death, which starts the cycle again, while the other is them powering up the pylon, which breaks the cycle. But what was the catalyst for initiating a cycle in the first place? What keeps Richtofen and Maxis from just leaving them dead at Die Rise, and getting another team? So it would seem to me that there is a catalyst for these time loops-and I agree with you about the Aether being timeless. I envisioned it as a realm-like an energy field-consistent with all recorded time (excludes the future, hence why controllers have been outwitted by those outside the MPD.) It has vision of, but not influence over all time. Did y'all listen to "The Murderer of Time?" I know it's not canon, and Treyarch is a lot more complex than that, but it would support the idea that there is a catalyst who/that determines the parameters of a cycle. Agreed, since it is a "loop," that is what I meant by a butterfly effect (which may be the wrong use of that), is remnants of memories and events and technology that cause effect at an earlier point in time. Note how, just like Weasel's comments about Nikolai, Richtofen claims, in Origins, to have designed the Ray Gun, saying he had a dream of it that inspired its creation. He may be having remnant memories. @Kill_All_Monkeys I can't agree about Weasel being an influence on time, however. He seems pretty clueless. He may have created the comic books and the ray gun based on his subconscious Aethereal connection to the others. Like a vision. He thinks its his own idea, but it's actually inspired by real events that he is only aware of due to his subconscious Aethereal proximity to the others who have been dragged into this cross-dimensional conflict. Or could it be that Weasel is a WWI veteran? And you're probably actually right about the MPD having nothing to do with time travel...it seems to just be a signal conduit for psycho-communication. But every action has an equal and opposite reaction. There must be a catalyst for resetting time. The thing about the "destruction" of the universe idea is that Maxis said that the EARTH and its inhabitants would not survive. Were the earth to implode, the rest of the universe would still continue on, in a quiet, dead manner without humanity. Time and space itself would have to be destroyed, but Maxis simply stated that Earth would be. ...my brain hurts.

That is a very conservative opinion, and I actually have a lot of respect for it. I will argue the contrary, however, so bear with me. I agree that the Aethereal controller does not "control" time, per se, but has moments where he can manipulate it to a certain extent, depending on the power he has (end of Buried) and only to a point in time where the people he is manipulating, as well as himself, exist. If, however, they were not in a position of control at that time, they would be forced back to where they were at that time, and therefore, out of the MPD. Richtofen takes the N4 back to the time of their initial arrival at Die Rise. This requires little energy, as it was likely no more than an hours' length in time. He was, however, in the MPD at both the time of their death at Die Rise and the time of their arrival at Die Rise, and therefore, taking them back to a position an hour earlier did not jeopardize his power by forcing him out. Maxis resets time to 1918 after Buried (all polarization devices channel the power he needs), erasing anyone not born at the time, but returning everyone who WAS born at that time (himself and the O4) to their position, but not without butterfly effect. The N4 do not survive, as they were not originally alive in 1918. Samantha, however, does, despite the fact that she was not born until the early to mid 30s', because she is on a different space-time continuum. This action, however, forces Maxis out of his position of power in the MPD, as it returns him to where he was in 1918, but since Samantha is his fail safe of knowledge, he can rely on her to remember the things he would have forgotten in the transition. The MPD is now prepared for re-occupation. Black Ops 3, The Giant: let the conflict begin again.

Wow, I'm glad I shelled out for a new console and Jugg Ed. :cries tears of relief:

Ah, I see! Hm. You might actually technically fall in an extreme version of multi-dimensionalism. Thats how the time loop works kinda maybe. The universe would end when the loop restarts. I personally don't think the universe can be created and destroyed like that. Does anyone remember the morse code from Tranzit? One of the messages was "Energy can only be transformed". It was referencing Einstein's theory: 'Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another.'. The same applies to the universe (which is just a big ball of energy really). Universes, like energy, cannot be created or destroyed, but only transformed. That's a great point, Shooter. Thanks for clarifying that. And yes, it's true that a story may end, Nightmare, but that's the cycle point, not a recreation. See, I'm in IT, so I view it from a data protection perspective. Your actions create, as it were 'restore points,' or okay, heck, in gaming we have save points. So when everything goes to hell, if there is a controller in the Aether, he can invoke a restore point. He cannot take people back in time, but he can take time back to them. And the debate begins. Y'know, I'm going to remove that request from the post above. This is a great topic to discuss, always.

Haha! Ah, my bad. Heck, I feel like I knew that, which makes it worse. lol! Anyway, yes, exactly. Agreed.

Ah, I see! Hm. You might actually technically fall in an extreme version of multi-dimensionalism. Thats how the time loop works kinda maybe. The universe would end when the loop restarts. Meh...I can't say I believe it actually ends. That seems kind of extraneous. Kinda like in The Murderer of Time, how New Years never came. The time machine holds it in loop, always starting again before the end.

Read the video description too, I am gonna judge it when I listen to it tomorrow though. I've heard and read some Shadow already, I don't know a whole lot about his history in the comics and such, which if there was any connection it would more than likely lie in the comics instead of the radio broadcasts, but I still don't see much connection beyond the name and silhouette. Give it a full listen. I think it will blow your mind. I think we have made a monumental discovery.

Ah, I see! Hm. You might actually technically fall in an extreme version of multi-dimensionalism.

It's cool! Just want to make sure you know I was trying to avoid excluding valid viewpoints.

That's what the 'Multiverse' option states. I tried to make them as general as possible, so that pretty much if you believe that there is a multiverse, option 2 would be acceptable.

The thumbnail even looks like the Shadow Man. What in the hell is this and how did you find it? It IS the Shadow Man! I'm a little confused as to whether @MixMasterNut or @PINNAZ is responsible for pointing out The Shadow, but after I saw him in Pinnaz' post, I started research this and found it almost instantly.

Holy crap, guys...it was here all along.

Interesting. But who is it talking about? Based on what I'm reading, he uses his psychic powers against criminals, even muddying their thoughts so that he can be around them and they won't notice him, like the Fr. Brown Mystery 'The Invisible Man'. Perhaps this will be a part of the EE-overcoming his psychosis. "The introduction from The Shadow radio program "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow knows!", spoken by actor Frank Readick Jr., has earned a place in the American idiom. These words were accompanied by an ominous laugh and a musical theme,"

Wow, the expansion of that post...the part about The Shadow is right on. Wow. Just found this tagline for The Shadow: "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?"

Nope they wanted the other 3 open. They are there future versions still so they want them to have a good future, except Richtofen but because of time travel younger Richtofen could go have a normal life and raise a family if he wanted and it wouldn't really matter because they are going to fix time anyways so paradoxes are nothing to him. Oh and ayyy mexican better be in it. Is it too late to retcon a British guy as to being one of the subjects? Because I really want there to be a playable British character in zombies. Something of note however is that I'm not actually sure if it was ever stated as to there only being 4 test subjects total or at any given time. What if there are more than the O3 and possibly the Mexican? Maybe it was stated somewhere though and I'm just forgetting about it at this time. Naw, Richtofen only had 4. I'm American, but I'm with you. A Brit would not only be cool, but appropo. It's kinda odd that one haven't shown up to date.

For all intents and purposes, that actually falls under the 'replication' concept of Multiverse. Multiverse is not strictly parallel universes, but fundamentally the idea that there are multiple instead of one, as the Multidimensional school of thought proposes.

It's totally possible. You never know where Treyarch will go with BO3. But thus far in our story, everything can be explained without parallel universes. Plus they are never mentioned throughout the story. I just don't think we go to a parallel universe every time we go back in time. When we die and go back in time to repeat the events, we still go back to our universe, it's just not the present. We are in another dimension of time, which is what Aether is. Same universe, different dimension. Actually, I phrased the definitions in such a way as to accommodate that. Multidimensional - Rejects the idea of anything besides the Aether, Agartha, and Earth, or any other unique realm that might be introduced Multiverse - Accepts the Aether, Agartha, Earth, and any other realm that might be introduced, while also proposing that these "unique realms" have parallel equivalents. So @Rissole25, you would be in the Multiverse camp. "Meet the Aether!" -Samantha when using the Gersch Device

I would really like to see some numbers from this forum as to who ascribes to which concept. So drop your opinion on the Poll and let's see some stats! Even if your belief varies from one of the definitions below to a certain extent, please attempt to choose the most appropriate one. Multidimensional: for the purpose of this poll, the conviction that Zombies takes place SOLELY across 3 separate, unique, non-parallel realms: Earth, Agartha, the Aether, and any other unique realm that might be expressly defined; and that all events, maps, and time loops or cycles take place in and across those three ONLY. Multiverse: Clearly accepts the idea of Agartha and the Aether, but proposes that the Zombies storyline has multiple universes, parallel or replicating, with duplicate but varying persons and events occurring in each. I personally will not be shaken from the multidimensional viewpoint unless Treyarch themselves state that a multiverse exists, at which point my respect for the whole story will plummet. I believe that Multiverse is a cop-out, as anything can be changed without logical explanation other than "it's a different universe." I also believe that we have been given enough evidence to date to determine that the interaction between the three known dimensions is enough to explain the inter-dimensional occurrences that have been occurring since December 4, 1939.