Why do submachine guns suck?

[man-freshener-115]

I just don't understand it. How could Treyarch have gone into making this game without realizing the dangers of the Famas, AUG, or Galil? Not only that, but the subs suck in their own right anyway.

I should be able to use whatever gun that I want and still be able to compete with it, right? Let's take a look at some major balance issues.

Let's say I wanted to use a Mac11. Why? Fastest reload when not reload canceling and fast swap speed.

Now enter the Famas. There's no reason to use a Mac11 over a Famas. Why? Because both have the same rate of fire, but the Famas has three shot kill at close range and four at long range while the Mac11 is a four shot kill close range and five shot kill long range, on top off having less attachments. Where is the balance?

Also, the Kiparis. This...gun...sucks.

Treyarch: Oh, well, it has assault rifle penetration.

Me: Enter the Enfield. This has assault rifle penetration, more attachments, and the ADS of an SMG. Where's the balance?

Also, with guns like the Mac11, Skorpion, etc. you are forced to use Scavenger to avoid running out ammunition. But Assault rifles get dual mags so you don't need Scavenger. I don't understand the "balance" there considering the Skorpion or Mac11 are weaker guns at long range and have low starting ammo.

Also, one thing I noticed. The submachine guns seem to be the only guns that have muzzle flash. With guns like the Famas, you'd think you'd be blinded by the ridiculous ROF it has. But no, the poor submachine guns, as usual, are just completely defeated by All powerful Assault rifles.

I swear, COD4 is the only COD so far where nothing is overpowered.

[Blamco177]

Not to insult you but, this is pointless. Complaining won't do a thing.

As someone who doesn't care about what gun he will use, smg's are reliable.More mobility, more speed, more speed, more advantages.

If you want this fixed wait till mw3.

Black ops has been out for quite some time, we have all adapted to it, in doing so we really don't notice now.

[Papi_Jr]

i dont think its the smg but more on the plyer than the gun.. u might need to be more skilledful with them (except the 74u need no skill at all) SMG'S arnt made to go head on with an assault rifle or with anything else...smg's are more on flanking and CQ.. ur not gonna snipe some1 with a mac11, but get closer to that person and flank them. u also gotta know the maps..

i use alot of single fire weapons and pistols then fullauto but i dont go head to head ill get raped, but like i said flanking and speed is the smg's best friend.. i can still dominate with the silance uzi with scout pro and my asp..

btw i also hate the dumbass snipers out there mostly on SnD.. running with the sinper come on man pull out ur pistols.. or quickscoping from a long range, just hardscope .. i know im not the greatest sniper but im smarter than the some of the dumbass snipers out there, dont get me wrong if ur super good at snipping then ill give u props, but still ply smart.. mostly on SnD

sorry if i got a liitle off topic, hope this helps or not ...

[BicBoi96]

Idk man in WaW subs tore asshole.

[gamerfan74]

Maybe this is just me, but it seems like in every COD there are only like 2 SMGs that are even worth using, in COD4 I always use the MP5 but people say the AK74u is good, In WAW the Thompson and the MP40 are pretty good, in MW2 the MP5k and the UMP45 are both good, and in BO I think the only one worth using is the AK74u. This is just what I think and I agree that for these guns you always have to have Bandolier or Scavenger to not immediately run out of ammo.

[Daveyjone]

You do know it's because of posts like this...

Treyarch and IW listen to fans, Trey more than Ward actually, they want to appease their fans, so they look to see what the view on guns is, after cod4 the view was, bring in a coop! So they made Zombies, then in CoD5 it was, less juggernaught and marty, so they made them into deathstreaks, then after mw2 it was less overpowered SMGs like the ump, less stopping power, knifing, nuke, emp, emergancy, RPG/gl with scavenger, less dangerclose and power to explosives and less riot shields, so they took everything out of the game.

Well we all know this isnt what we want, we DONT want a game where it takes a clip to kill someone, we DONT want a game where a grenade wont kill someone, we DONT want a game full of underpowered SMGs, pointless perks to fill in all the ones taken out and slower movement, knifing speed/reach and random killstreaks... but he who shouts shit shouts loudest and his heard first. fact of life,

i hope that with mw3 and bo2 that they do a battlefield and do whatever the hell they like, the game will sell anyway, and we'll all be happy, exept griefers who will leave, reducing the number of extreme gamers, crybabies and 5 year olds playing, meaning even more happy people!

[ZombieOfTheDead]

Funny, in WaW all SMG's were amazing, and now they've been replaced by assault rifles, but they don't all really suck, but they aren't fantastic.

[man-freshener-115]

Funny, in WaW all SMG's were amazing, and now they've been replaced by assault rifles, but they don't all really suck, but they aren't fantastic.

Actually, the Uzi really sucks. :roll:

[DeckchairsFTW]

I'll just start off by saying moaning won't help, but hey, what are forums for?

There are several good reasons why SMG's aren't as effective in ordinary hands as AR's.

1. SMG's are supposed to be fast firing, CQB weapons, they fire smaller rounds than their AR bigger brothers, which pose as much of an immediate threat to the enemy as an AR does, but only in a small space. e.g. there's no point trying to kill someone 300 metres away with an SMG because you simply won't hit them, or if you do, the Velocity of the round has decreased so much that it simply causes a smaller injury.

2. As for ammo, SMG's are meant for short, small battles in a small area. Just think of the SAS, and other counter terrorism units, they use MP5's, UMP's etc for their lightness, mobility, and ability to pack a punch in a small space. Storming a building won't use much ammo unless it's a whacking great skyscraper. Assault rifles are meant for long battles that could last days, thus the need for more ammo. Snipers are meant to have one shot kills most of the time, that's why they carry less too.

3. Muzzle flash. Often, SMG's do not have a sufficiently long barrel to facilitate a flash hider, flash eliminator etc. Without making the barrel longer, they simply cannot have one on there, as you need a good 4 inches to fit one on. AR's do have sufficient barrel length for this.

4. If anything is overpowered on this game, it's not the AR's, it's the AK74-U, an SMG. It fires smaller rounds than most of the AR's (5.45mm) but takes the same amount of hits as a larger calibre weapon like the Galil (7.62mm).

I hope this clears up some issues you may have.

DeckchairsFTW

[Shooter]

I'll just start off by saying moaning won't help, but hey, what are forums for?

There are several good reasons why SMG's aren't as effective in ordinary hands as AR's.

1. SMG's are supposed to be fast firing, CQB weapons, they fire smaller rounds than their AR bigger brothers, which pose as much of an immediate threat to the enemy as an AR does, but only in a small space. e.g. there's no point trying to kill someone 300 metres away with an SMG because you simply won't hit them, or if you do, the Velocity of the round has decreased so much that it simply causes a smaller injury.

2. As for ammo, SMG's are meant for short, small battles in a small area. Just think of the SAS, and other counter terrorism units, they use MP5's, UMP's etc for their lightness, mobility, and ability to pack a punch in a small space. Storming a building won't use much ammo unless it's a whacking great skyscraper. Assault rifles are meant for long battles that could last days, thus the need for more ammo. Snipers are meant to have one shot kills most of the time, that's why they carry less too.

3. Muzzle flash. Often, SMG's do not have a sufficiently long barrel to facilitate a flash hider, flash eliminator etc. Without making the barrel longer, they simply cannot have one on there, as you need a good 4 inches to fit one on. AR's do have sufficient barrel length for this.

4. If anything is overpowered on this game, it's not the AR's, it's the AK74-U, an SMG. It fires smaller rounds than most of the AR's (5.45mm) but takes the same amount of hits as a larger calibre weapon like the Galil (7.62mm).

I hope this clears up some issues you may have.

DeckchairsFTW

AWESOME reply DeckChairs!

You mentioned everything I would've touched on! Brains to you good sir!

[Papi_Jr]

[Actually, the Uzi really sucks. :roll:

the uzi has been fixed.. less recoil while aiming down the sight

[ccm404e]

I'm only really a fan of the MP5k, MPL and Spectre. I refuse to use the 74u cause it's so common and the others don't stand a chance against the likes of the Galil and the Commando. The Spectre kicks ass though. That's one of my favourite guns in the game. Spectre grip is just boss!

[man-freshener-115]

I'll just start off by saying moaning won't help, but hey, what are forums for?

There are several good reasons why SMG's aren't as effective in ordinary hands as AR's.

1. SMG's are supposed to be fast firing, CQB weapons, they fire smaller rounds than their AR bigger brothers, which pose as much of an immediate threat to the enemy as an AR does, but only in a small space. e.g. there's no point trying to kill someone 300 metres away with an SMG because you simply won't hit them, or if you do, the Velocity of the round has decreased so much that it simply causes a smaller injury.

2. As for ammo, SMG's are meant for short, small battles in a small area. Just think of the SAS, and other counter terrorism units, they use MP5's, UMP's etc for their lightness, mobility, and ability to pack a punch in a small space. Storming a building won't use much ammo unless it's a whacking great skyscraper. Assault rifles are meant for long battles that could last days, thus the need for more ammo. Snipers are meant to have one shot kills most of the time, that's why they carry less too.

3. Muzzle flash. Often, SMG's do not have a sufficiently long barrel to facilitate a flash hider, flash eliminator etc. Without making the barrel longer, they simply cannot have one on there, as you need a good 4 inches to fit one on. AR's do have sufficient barrel length for this.

4. If anything is overpowered on this game, it's not the AR's, it's the AK74-U, an SMG. It fires smaller rounds than most of the AR's (5.45mm) but takes the same amount of hits as a larger calibre weapon like the Galil (7.62mm).

I hope this clears up some issues you may have.

DeckchairsFTW

I'm not disagreeing with this post, because, yes that's what they are for. But the problem is this is a video game. Call of Duty is not about realism, it's about having fun. And having fun means gun balance. But trying to use guns like the Uzi or PM63, and you'll find yourself at a severe disadvantage. Not just because of the range of which they are severely limited to.

For some of the SMG's, you are forced to use certain perks in order to make it work for you, like I said in the first post. For instance, the Skorpion and Mac11 are both guns that need Scavenger because they come with a short magazine capacity and low reserve capacity. But the AK74u and most of the Assault rifles offer dual magazines, which completely eliminate the need for Scavenger on longer streaks (and sometimes means you don't need sleight of hand) so you can use Flak Jacket or Hardline. But then try using those perks on a regular Skorpion, and you may do good for a little bit, but guess what happens? You run out ammo!

Plus, I don't understand why they get stuck with less ammo considering that it's a weaker gun, even at close range. Remember, this isn't about realism. I'll play Battlefield if I want that.

And if you think I'm crazy, just play Black Ops and make a mental note to watch the killfeed and just count how many assault rifle kills there are compared to submachine gun kills and I guarantee you that assault rifles with outnumber the SMG kills.

Or do this. Next time that you play, use the AUG or Famas with dual mags and steady aim, and tell me that that isn't as effective as an SMG up close.

[Pandaman5797]

Idk man in WaW subs tore asshole.

Lol that's what i was thinking...even IF you took out the MP40, the SMG's were still the obviously dominant weapon in WaW, though much less so than the AR's are now...while i do agree with the points above, the FAMAS and AUG can spray in close quarters just as well as an SMG can...i know from experience

The Panda's out...

[DeckchairsFTW]

If you can't use an SMG as effectively as an AR, then you as a player are obviously not suited to using SMGs. I know that i can go into a game and use my main SMG class and Dominate the game with it.

Here's what i use:

MP5K w/ Red dot Sight

M1911/ dual wield

Semtex

Flashbang

Motion Sensor

Flak Jacket

Sleight of hand

Hacker

If you can't use an SMG effectively then you must be more suited to AR's. I know i can use both effectively, as well as LMGs, snipers and Shotguns.

CoD needs some realism, or people wouldn't buy it, with no realism it would be nothing, and they are treading a fine line as it stands.

Also Sleight of hand is a slot 2 perk, Flak Jacket and Hardline are Slot 1 perks.

[man-freshener-115]

Idk man in WaW subs tore asshole.

Lol that's what i was thinking...even IF you took out the MP40, the SMG's were still the obviously dominant weapon in WaW, though much less so than the AR's are now...while i do agree with the points above, the FAMAS and AUG can spray in close quarters just as well as an SMG can...i know from experience

The Panda's out...

That's my point. Assault rifles should not be able to compete with SMG's in close quarters. But then you have guns like the Famas or AUG. It's an SMG with long range capabilities, so then what's the point in using an SMG? Do you really want to sacrifice long range capability? I don't think so.

And in W@W, the subs did dominate but at least I saw people use the bolt actions and the semi automatic rifles. At least people DID use a little bit of everything.

[DeckchairsFTW]

Of course smg's dominated in WAW, they were the only fully automatic weapon on the game apart from the Father of all modern assault rifles, the STG44.

Honestly, what would you rather take into battle? A Springfield or a Thompson?

[man-freshener-115]

Of course smg's dominated in WAW, they were the only fully automatic weapon on the game apart from the Father of all modern assault rifles, the STG44.

Honestly, what would you rather take into battle? A Springfield or a Thompson?

*cough* MP40 with Juggernaut *cough*

But I did see people use the bolt action and semi automatics fairly often. Even without the scopes I saw people use the quite frequently. Not as often as SMG's, but enough to notice. I actually didn't use the SMG's that much and stuck to the semi autos and bolt actions. Don't know why. Just preferred them that way.

[deathoffun]

4. If anything is overpowered on this game, it's not the AR's, it's the AK74-U, an SMG. It fires smaller rounds than most of the AR's (5.45mm) but takes the same amount of hits as a larger calibre weapon like the Galil (7.62mm).

DeckchairsFTW

so like...the AR fires a 5.56. so does the Galil, Aug. Famas. and a number of other weapons in the game. the only 7.62 guns i know for sure in BO are the FAL. M14. HK21 and PSG1. besides the ak47 and RPK which fire the russian 7.62

[man-freshener-115]

[\quote]

4. If anything is overpowered on this game, it's not the AR's, it's the AK74-U, an SMG. It fires smaller rounds than most of the AR's (5.45mm) but takes the same amount of hits as a larger calibre weapon like the Galil (7.62mm).

I hope this clears up some issues you may have.

DeckchairsFTW

Then shouldn't you consider the MP5k overpowered then? It takes three hits to kill, same as the 74u.

And, I'm saying this again, the assault rifles are in fact overpowered.

[Captain]

Cool.

Still gonna use the MP5k.

[Daveyjone]

official, DV announced on twitter assult rifles are getting nerfed, starting with the famas, info here:

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=12706

[DeckchairsFTW]

4. If anything is overpowered on this game, it's not the AR's, it's the AK74-U, an SMG. It fires smaller rounds than most of the AR's (5.45mm) but takes the same amount of hits as a larger calibre weapon like the Galil (7.62mm).

DeckchairsFTW

so like...the AR fires a 5.56. so does the Galil, Aug. Famas. and a number of other weapons in the game. the only 7.62 guns i know for sure in BO are the FAL. M14. HK21 and PSG1. besides the ak47 and RPK which fire the russian 7.62

the AR? Theres about 10...

The Galil fires 7.62's aswell.

So does the RPK, M60, HK21, AK47. The AK and RPK can fire several different sized rounds, depending on where/when it was made. The usual AK fires 7.62x.39 rounds, but many depending on where they were made can fire 7.62x51/ NATO rounds.

Yes the MP5k can kill in 3 shots, the same as the 74-U which is overpowered, but you are far less likely to hit a target with the MP5K at a distance than you are with the 74-U.

For a start, the MP5K seems to spray rounds in an inacurate way, and the recoil is circular, which is much harder to control than the AK74-u's recoil where it is simply raising the rifle. The 74-U also seems to be more accurate.

However, use of both these weapons i've used as an example are used by people based on personal preference, i for one can use both quite well.

DeckchairsFTW

[man-freshener-115]

4. If anything is overpowered on this game, it's not the AR's, it's the AK74-U, an SMG. It fires smaller rounds than most of the AR's (5.45mm) but takes the same amount of hits as a larger calibre weapon like the Galil (7.62mm).

DeckchairsFTW

so like...the AR fires a 5.56. so does the Galil, Aug. Famas. and a number of other weapons in the game. the only 7.62 guns i know for sure in BO are the FAL. M14. HK21 and PSG1. besides the ak47 and RPK which fire the russian 7.62

the AR? Theres about 10...

The Galil fires 7.62's aswell.

So does the RPK, M60, HK21, AK47. The AK and RPK can fire several different sized rounds, depending on where/when it was made. The usual AK fires 7.62x.39 rounds, but many depending on where they were made can fire 7.62x51/ NATO rounds.

Yes the MP5k can kill in 3 shots, the same as the 74-U which is overpowered, but you are far less likely to hit a target with the MP5K at a distance than you are with the 74-U.

For a start, the MP5K seems to spray rounds in an inacurate way, and the recoil is circular, which is much harder to control than the AK74-u's recoil where it is simply raising the rifle. The 74-U also seems to be more accurate.

However, use of both these weapons i've used as an example are used by people based on personal preference, i for one can use both quite well.

DeckchairsFTW

On top of that, they gave the 74u a grenade launcher. I know in real life it can hold one, but come on. THAT's one reason that it's overpowered.

[DeckchairsFTW]

It's also the only one that is effectively a shortened assault rifle, hence the reason it's so powerful. the 'U' from AK74-U is short for the Russian word for 'Shortened'. That's why it accomodates a GL

They're just trying to make it mroe realistic, then ruining it by nerfing stuff.