A Zombie Trilogy v.III [NOW IN VIDEO]

[MysteryMachineX]

I think the only really good solution is that the Nuketown Zombies actually takes place LONG after the battle at Nuketown. The Season Pass just says after Nuketown. It didn't say how long.

EDIT: Just expanding with this theory:

1966-1967 = Battle of Nuketown

After 2025 = Nuketown / Moon

After 2045 = Green Run

After Green Run = Great Leap Forward

That makes sense right? There was just a gap between the Nuketowns. If anyone can think of a better solution, I'd like to hear it.

[Tac]

I'm more banking on the idea that the Nuketown battle may not be in the 60's, but that'll likely change pretty easily. I also heavily disagree with 2025/2045 stuff, but it's pointless to argue until we have more information, IMO.

[MysteryMachineX]

But you just were just talking to PINNAZ earlier about the "Since 1996". He himself says that he thinks it to be at minimum 20 years beyond that. That places the new maps' time in the future. It explains all the technology and even retroactively explains the Bus Driver. Ask yourself, would be more willing to agree if it said 2000 and 2020? Or 2010 and 2030? It has to be one of those. 20 years beyond 1996 plus all the technology, makes the most sense to take place after the campaign, so 2025+ and 2045+. The idea of the Battle of Nuketown taking place in the future I think is even more unlikely, since SR-71's were cancelled long ago. In the end, the cutscene with the nuke, it is isolated. You could easily cut that clip out and play it decades later. I think that is our best option. It would also explain Province 22. The reason we may not be able to find what Province 22 is may be because this is China of the future. What was China called in the campaign? I'm not sure. It had a new name, a new government. Likely a new provincial structure.

EDIT: My bad. It was SDC. So yeah, China is still China. However, the provincial structure could still work, especially if there was a faction of rebellion. China was going through a bit of turmoil. So I think having strange (to us) provinces would make since. Kinda like how in the Fallout series' future there were only 13 states instead of 50.

EDIT: What do you guys think? I'm excited that I've figured out a solution and can't wait to work on this storyline, but I need feedback and hopefully confirmation on the theory.

[Tac]

He himself says that he thinks it to be at minimum 20 years beyond that.

The 20 years is purely speculation. It could be 3 years and not 20, we don't know. The since 1996 shows that the nukes went off after that, beyond that we really know nothing (from what I can see).

The SR-71 was retired in 1998, the same year that the Jin Mao Tower was constructed. I personally am sticking with the Nuketown mp and zombies maps being later, rather than earlier.

[MysteryMachineX]

Later rather than earlier? What is that supposed to mean?

You never see "Since this date" unless the date was a long time ago. Just look at Heinz, or Macy's, or the Farmer's Almanac, etc. It brings up thoughts of prosperity and stability when you have lasted that long. 1996 is recent. Therefore, 1996 being "long ago" means the "present" is the future.

It's not speculation. It's logical deduction. It makes much more sense for the nuke to have just done off late rather for a random Black Ops versus Spetsnaz retro '60's fight.

"Hey guys! Look! Russians! I know they're not an enemy power anymore, but hey let's fight! AND let's only use '60's weapons!"

Doesn't that just sound more ridiculous than:

"Let's blow this place up! No, wait. Never mind *later* Guys, I've got an idea for a nuclear test!"

All of the multiplayer maps were supposed to be in the '60's. Why isn't my theory good enough? Your alternative doesn't make sense.

EDIT: The Nuclear Test Treaty Ban prevented nukes being tested beyond 1963. Now in the future, that could've been revoked. But not in the '90's.

[MysteryMachineX]

Nuketown (MP) happened in or before 1963. This is because the US were attempting to drop a nuke. They couldn't have been doing that after the nuclear test treaty ban in 1963.

The nuke at the end of Nuketown (MP) and the beginning of Nuketown (ZM) happened sometime in or after 2025. This is because a revocation of the nuclear test ban treaty has not been established in current history, but perhaps the future.

Nuketown (ZM) happened sometime in or after 2025. This is because it happened right before the missiles blew up the world. Moon happened at the same time.

The missiles blew up the world sometime in or after 2025. This is because Die Rise shows us that a makeup brand was around "Since 1996". This phrase is only used in decades after creation. Therefore it must be in the future. It must be a minimum of 2025 to avoid confusion with the campaign.

Green Run happened sometime in or after 2045. This is because Maxis says he's been looking for decades, which is a minimum of 20 years after the missiles.

Great Leap Forward happened sometime in or after 2045. This is because it happened after Green Run.

[Zelkova]

I disagree with you....

[InfestLithium]

Couldn't it be possible that Shanghai was one of the last places to be hit? The missiles may not have done anything to that particular area; however, the after effects from the impact would have chunks of Earth orbiting rather close to the world, thus destroying the rest of the Earth little by little.

[MysteryMachineX]

No.

You see in the game that the missiles hit simultaneously.

And EVEN IF THAT WERE TRUE:

The stock market crash in America caused the Great Depression which caused the Nazis to gain great support in Europe which caused World War II. Half the world being destroyed does NOT equal "let's build the Jin Mao Tower!"

Again. No. It is not possible. It's just ridiculous. Do I need pull Moon Easter Egg footage as "evidence"?

[InfestLithium]

If it helps, then yes; bring it out. But then suppose that it does take place within the said future. What would you then say have occurred: some kind of time travel or paradox?

[MysteryMachineX]

If it happened in the future, there is no paradox. In fact, I can take the whole "paradox-fixer" thing out of it altogether. I think it is an elegant solution.

[InfestLithium]

But then that means Moon would have to occur in the future as well to keep it consistent with Nuketown Zombies. Maybe I'm just very confused here about it; I can deal with a future-based Moon, thus allowing the time flow to be consistent. But if not, then I don't know where to follow exactly. Any guidance in that, MMX?

[MysteryMachineX]

I said in my post above that Moon would also be in the future. Should I try re-explaining it? In a different way that may help?

[Zelkova]

We already know Time Travel has occured plenty so what if it occured again without our knowledge.

[MysteryMachineX]

If it was without our knowledge... then we won't know about it...

What if Richtofen was female but we don't know it? I mean, that's a difficult question to answer seeing as the one who is judging is the one who has the lack of information. Our storyline probably differs from Treyarch's, because they have stuff that we don't, can't, and couldn't know.

[PINNAZ]

But you just were just talking to PINNAZ earlier about the "Since 1996". He himself says that he thinks it to be at minimum 20 years beyond that.

I didn't say that. All I said is that we have an 'after' date, though I would assume you should be in business for at least 10 years before you would put that against your company title. If it said 'established' 1996 on the other hand, that could mean it was 1997 but it doesn't say established. 

Nuketown Zombies is set during the events of Moon, and after the end of the multiplayer level from the original Black Ops game.

CDC (does it say anywhere in game the full name of the CDC? As they changed names many time but the initials were always CDC)

Formed - July 1, 1946

Preceding agencies -

Office of National Defense Malaria Control Activities (1942)

Office of Malaria Control in War Areas (1942–1946)

Communicable Disease Center (1946–1967)

National Communicable Disease Center (1967–1970)

Center for Disease Control (1970–1980)

Centers for Disease Control (1980–1992)

The Communicable Diseases Center was founded July 1, 1946 as the successor to the World War II Malaria Control in War Areas program of Office of National Defense Malaria Control Activities.

It became the National Communicable Disease Center (NCDC) effective July 1, 1967.[5] The organization was renamed the Center for Disease Control (CDC) on June 24, 1970, and Centers for Disease Control effective October 14, 1980.[5] An act of the United States Congress appended the words "and Prevention" to the name effective October 27, 1992. However, Congress directed that the initialism CDC be retained because of its name recognition.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) is a United States federal agency under the Department of Health and Human Services headquartered in Druid Hills, unincorporated DeKalb County, Georgia, in Greater Atlanta

In 1947, CDC made a token payment of $10 to Emory University for 15 acres (61,000 m2) of land on Clifton Road in DeKalb County, still the home of CDC headquarters today.

So the CDC was established after WWII & their Head Office has been located in Georgia since 1947. (in reference to the Die Rise Radio/TV transmissions)

So those 2 references are within a possible 1960's timeframe of Nuketown.

Off Topic but something funny -

CDC zombie apocalypse video contest

Main article: Preparedness 101: Zombie Apocalypse

On May 18, 2011, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's blog published an article instructing the public on what to do to prepare for a zombie invasion. While the article did not claim that such a scenario was possible, it did use the popular culture appeal as a means of having individuals prepare for all potential hazards, such as earthquakes, tornadoes, and floods. The recent proliferation of Zombie media provided a medium to contact citizens usually unaccustomed to dealing with the CDC.

Once the article became popular, the CDC announced an open contest for YouTube submissions of the most creative and effective videos covering preparedness for a zombie apocalypse (or apocalypse of any kind), to be judged by the "CDC Zombie Task Force". Submissions were open until October 11, 2011.

I still believe WaW & BO1 are following history. Moon & Nuketown must of occured in the early 60's.

E.g. - Nuclear Testing in the 1960's.

BO2 however, I'm quite lost. The Map Names are title from real world events - The Green Run Project in December 1949 & The Great Leap Forward from 1958 to 1961. 

Yet the names bear no resemblance to the map or the history timeline as the real life events. This is the opposite of WaW & BO1.

I urge you MMX not to change your timeline as of yet. The DLC has only been out for a few days & information is still unravelling. We may need more DLC maps to confirm info about GR & GLF. Theres still so many unanswered questions from GR. USSR's involvement there is unexplained.

There seems to be many, many descrepencies unfolding. What do we take for canon?

Reused Textures are appearing in the maps - electrical switches, signs, among others. I have also found this.

The top of this building is the same as the Jin Mao Tower? Reused textures.

there is also the thing that is in the Bank & Bowling building which are in Die Rise. (that may be 1 exception)

Time & actual location may be referenced but the maps seem to be fictional. I'm becoming less & less confident about factual relevance in the story.

I don't think it's that far into the future (yet) 

[trevbo]

First, I would have to agree with PINNAZ, and do NOT change your timeline yet..

Of some of the tings being talked about recently, we know Richtofen is capable of time travel, right? So it shouldn't be hard to swallow that Richtofen may have taken the N4 to Great Leap Forward AND through time to a later date than Green Run.

Some believe Green Run to be after Nuketown, but it can't be far after, because Marlton is in the Bunker there. Also, People have seen the calculator watch he wears, signifying that it was sometime after the '80's. Maybe it's just to personify his nerdy attributes, but i dont think Treyarch to be that simple minded.

I would say maybe just wait out a little bit, and see where further research takes us.

[MysteryMachineX]

So am I to understand that the basis of your argument is fear? You don't to change the timeline because.....? Of some fear that it's too early within the release of the game? We made a timeline when Green Run was released without waiting for this DLC. We WILL do it again.

You only put "Since this date" if it had been a long time. You don't put that if it has been one year. That is just ridiculous!

Your CDC thing really doesn't prove anything. One way or the other.

I've given evidence. The only thing stopping progress is other people's refusal to change the storyline so rapidly. You can argue all you want. You yourself have PROVEN that it must be at least in the '90's, which NEGATES all this '60's nonsense. However, there is evidence to say it is in the future, not the '90's, which also NEGATES the '60's nonsense. However, saying the future instead of '90's clears up MANY discrepancies.

The intro cutscene shows the characters physically moving across the Earth. A temporal movement alongside it unlikely unless it was shown alongside the physical movement as well. It was not.

It it possible Marlton was in his late teens and now his early 30's.

Wait it out a bit? You guys are ENCOURAGING limiting progress? Excuse me??? When some of YOU came up with the '60's bit in Green Run. Did you hear me saying that we should wait? No. I came up with the multidimensional theory to back it up! Least to say I was hoping for the same. This is the best solution at this time, the better solution from the majority?: do nothing.

[Zelkova]

Calm down Murder sheesh, I understand where your coming from but throwing a uproar isn't going to help at the moment.

I do have a question, what is the future? When defining future here is it the future as if we were in the time period of Moon or our future? Also in BO2 you cannot use the multiplayer maps to back up anything anymore as none of the zombie maps so far have occured in area's we have played in multiplayer or in campaign.

[Tac]

I think it's more that you are missing the point. This changes a lo of things as we know it, and before you start putting willy-nilly stuff down that, yes, has evidence, I think that there's much more that we are missing and need to wait until further research develops. This isn't about Green Run where we could add anything we wanted because it only added to the story, this is about Great Leap Forward which CHANGES things, not just ADDS them.

In regards to PINNAZ's CDC remark, how does it not show anything? They had separate names throughout history so it could help pinpoint the time. The name in the game is "Center for Disease Control," which shows a time period of 1970 to 1980. Not saying this is 100% accurate, but it needs to be looked at.

[Shooter]

Nuketown (MP) happened in or before 1963. This is because the US were attempting to drop a nuke. They couldn't have been doing that after the nuclear test treaty ban in 1963.

The nuke at the end of Nuketown (MP) and the beginning of Nuketown (ZM) happened sometime in or after 2025. This is because a revocation of the nuclear test ban treaty has not been established in current history, but perhaps the future.

Nuketown (ZM) happened sometime in or after 2025. This is because it happened right before the missiles blew up the world. Moon happened at the same time.

The missiles blew up the world sometime in or after 2025. This is because Die Rise shows us that a makeup brand was around "Since 1996". This phrase is only used in decades after creation. Therefore it must be in the future. It must be a minimum of 2025 to avoid confusion with the campaign.

Just some feedback on this.

Looking back at the description for NTZ, I think we could deduce the time of at least NTZ.

"Nuketown Zombies is set during the events of Moon, and after the end of the multiplayer level from the original Black Ops game."

So we know for a fact that NTZ happens after the MP map. And we an all agree that the MP map occured sometime during the 60's.

"A group of radiation scientists are investigating the Nuketown remains and discover soldiers that have been revived by Element 115 from a nearby Nevada base."

These radiation scientists were likely sent in within 24-48 hours after the blast to measure the radiation as they would in any other nuclear test conducted by the US. We are still in the 60's.

"The zombie soldiers attack the radiation scientists and turn them, and after receiving a distress signal, the base in Nevada sends in CIA and CDC agents to investigate. Upon arrival in Nuketown the agents lose communication with Hangar 18 and become stranded…setting the stage for Nuketown Zombies."

Before the radiation scientists are killed they send a distress signal, and CIA and CDC agents from Area 51 respond to the call. This means Area 51 had not yet been overrun, like we see in No Man's Land. Given our estimated time of NML of 1966, this would mean the agents from Area 51 arrive at Nuketown sometime before 1966. These are the agents we play as during NTZ, so I'm under the strong impression NTZ happens shortly after the MP map.

Oh, and you made a good point about the Ban Treaty in 1963. Then again it was a Black Ops mission that was going on at Nuketown at ground zero, so I wouldn't doubt this type of detonation would be classified to most.

In my mind, the events of the MP Nuketown map, NTZ, the events of Moon, and the bombings by Maxis all occur in the 1960's. As far as Green Run and Die Rise goes, it's still up in the air.

[Zelkova]

I think it's more that you are missing the point. This changes a lo of things as we know it, and before you start putting willy-nilly stuff down that, yes, has evidence, I think that there's much more that we are missing and need to wait until further research develops. This isn't about Green Run where we could add anything we wanted because it only added to the story, this is about Great Leap Forward which CHANGES things, not just ADDS them.

In regards to PINNAZ's CDC remark, how does it not show anything? They had separate names throughout history so it could help pinpoint the time. The name in the game is "Center for Disease Control," which shows a time period of 1970 to 1980. Not saying this is 100% accurate, but it needs to be looked at.

I actually didn't notice it stating Center for Disease Control but when you said that I looked it in game and it suddenly hit me. As for the Limited Test Ban Treaty that the U.S. signed banning Nuclear Testing above ground I was the one who told MMX about it, I just want to specify the exact date of the treaty as when I told him I could only remember the year. The Treaty was signed and ratified by the U.S., the Soviet Union, and the UK on August 5th, 1963 in Moscow. It was ratified by the U.S. Senate on September 24, 1963 and was put into effect October 10, 1963.

[Tac]

Didn't even realize the Test Ban Treaty was brought up, so thank you MMX (I think it was him). The nuclear mushroom cloud at the beginning of Nuketown is from MP, right? I don't remember, because I've always seen the nuke hit in a different place than where the cloud is, but I may just be stupid. Anyway, something interesting I found, whether it comes to mean anything or not.

The Treaty was signed and ratified by the U.S., the Soviet Union, and the UK on August 5th, 1963 in Moscow. It was ratified by the U.S. Senate on September 24, 1963 and was put into effect October 10, 1963.

Thank you for the information Zelkova. So in Nuketown, we see a mushroom cloud, obviously. But the Test Ban Treaty does not give us a better timeline, and here's why. The Limited Test Ban Treaty described above is a "treaty banning nuclear weapon tests in the atmosphere, in outer space and under water." This does not include underground testing. In underground testing, if the nuclear bomb is low depth, it will create a mushroom cloud and base surge. I will quote AtomicArchive on what a base surge is:

Base surge: A cloud which rolls outward from the bottom of the column produced by a subsurface explosion. For subsurface land bursts the surge is made up of small solid particles but it still behaves like a fluid. A soft earth medium favors base surge formation in an underground burst.

I will quote Wohletz Hawkins' 1996 paper (Page 6, number 1A) on the characteristics of an underground crater:

A) Craters. For underburied tests, surface materials may be accelerated to the point where they are launched as ejecta, leaving a surface crater with a surrounding apron of ejecta. Such craters are typically circular in plan view, conical in profile, and range in diameter and depth from a few tens of meters to several hundred meters ...

Mushroom Cloud, Base Surge, and conical crater perhaps? Again, this may be pointless, I have no clue. If the MP nuke is the cause of this crater, which I assume, then I guess we have our time of pre-Oct. 10, 1963.

These radiation scientists were likely sent in within 24-48 hours after the blast to measure the radiation as they would in any other nuclear test conducted by the US. We are still in the 60's.

You have the right idea, however it's more like 1-2 hours after the blast, as I will quote AtomicArchive.com:

The cloud may continue to be visible for about an hour or more before being dispersed by the winds into the surrounding atmosphere where it merges with natural clouds in the sky.

[Zelkova]

Didn't even realize the Test Ban Treaty was brought up, so thank you MMX (I think it was him). The nuclear mushroom cloud at the beginning of Nuketown is from MP, right? I don't remember, because I've always seen the nuke hit in a different place than where the cloud is, but I may just be stupid. Anyway, something interesting I found, whether it comes to mean anything or not.

The Treaty was signed and ratified by the U.S., the Soviet Union, and the UK on August 5th, 1963 in Moscow. It was ratified by the U.S. Senate on September 24, 1963 and was put into effect October 10, 1963.

Thank you for the information Zelkova. So in Nuketown, we see a mushroom cloud, obviously. But the Test Ban Treaty does not give us a better timeline, and here's why. The Limited Test Ban Treaty described above is a "treaty banning nuclear weapon tests in the atmosphere, in outer space and under water." This does not include underground testing. In underground testing, if the nuclear bomb is low depth, it will create a mushroom cloud and base surge. I will quote AtomicArchive on what a base surge is:

Base surge: A cloud which rolls outward from the bottom of the column produced by a subsurface explosion. For subsurface land bursts the surge is made up of small solid particles but it still behaves like a fluid. A soft earth medium favors base surge formation in an underground burst.

I will quote Wohletz Hawkins' 1996 paper (Page 6, number 1A) on the characteristics of an underground crater:

A) Craters. For underburied tests, surface materials may be accelerated to the point where they are launched as ejecta, leaving a surface crater with a surrounding apron of ejecta. Such craters are typically circular in plan view, conical in profile, and range in diameter and depth from a few tens of meters to several hundred meters ...

Mushroom Cloud, Base Surge, and conical crater perhaps? Again, this may be pointless, I have no clue. If the MP nuke is the cause of this crater, which I assume, then I guess we have our time of pre-Oct. 10, 1963.

These radiation scientists were likely sent in within 24-48 hours after the blast to measure the radiation as they would in any other nuclear test conducted by the US. We are still in the 60's.

You have the right idea, however it's more like 1-2 hours after the blast, as I will quote AtomicArchive.com:

The cloud may continue to be visible for about an hour or more before being dispersed by the winds into the surrounding atmosphere where it merges with natural clouds in the sky.

You just stated yourself though that then this would put it more than likely pre-October 10,1963 so it does help us determine the year then.

[Tac]

Well that's if they are the same nuke, and I wasn't sure if it was or was not. The thing that confuses me is that if they are, then why does the street sign say Latchkey, which didn't even occur until 1966?