A Zombie Trilogy v.III [NOW IN VIDEO]

[MysteryMachineX]

Sorry PINNAZ. Most people don't think aloud like that. It's not a bad thing; it invites discussion. I should be more aware of that.

You seem to have answered most of your questions. You know what I think on the matter.

And yes, the teleporter in Kino sends the four to different rooms.

[InfestLithium]

Hey guys. I wanted to talk about Maxis. I now have doubts that he is an A.I. Anyone care to share your thoughts?

I'm not too fond about the subject of an A.I., but I'll try my best to give it a whirl.

We know that artificial intelligence is the man-made intelligence of machines or computer systems which are capable of performing tasks that would generally require human intelligence. One could assume that something as simple as a calculator is able to obtain a certain degree of artificial intelligence - we know the existing factors, yet we desire a particular output based on the input given. The work is done for us in a rather quick process, which delivers what we would be quite capable of accomplishing for the most part.

Turing Test & Artificial Intelligence

The phrase “The Turing Test” is most properly used to refer to a proposal made by Turing (1950) as a way of dealing with the question whether machines can think. According to Turing, the question whether machines can think is itself “too meaningless” to deserve discussion (442). However, if we consider the more precise—and somehow related—question whether a digital computer can do well in a certain kind of game that Turing describes (“The Imitation Game”), then—at least in Turing's eyes—we do have a question that admits of precise discussion. Moreover, as we shall see, Turing himself thought that it would not be too long before we did have digital computers that could “do well” in the Imitation Game.

The phrase “The Turing Test” is sometimes used more generally to refer to some kinds of behavioural tests for the presence of mind, or thought, or intelligence in putatively minded entities. So, for example, it is sometimes suggested that The Turing Test is prefigured in Descartes' Discourse on the Method. (Copeland (2000:527) finds an anticipation of the test in the 1668 writings of the Cartesian de Cordemoy. Gunderson (1964) provides an early instance of those who find that Turing's work is foreshadowed in the work of Descartes.) In the Discourse, Descartes says:

If there were machines which bore a resemblance to our bodies and imitated our actions as closely as possible for all practical purposes, we should still have two very certain means of recognizing that they were not real men. The first is that they could never use words, or put together signs, as we do in order to declare our thoughts to others. For we can certainly conceive of a machine so constructed that it utters words, and even utters words that correspond to bodily actions causing a change in its organs. … But it is not conceivable that such a machine should produce different arrangements of words so as to give an appropriately meaningful answer to whatever is said in its presence, as the dullest of men can do. Secondly, even though some machines might do some things as well as we do them, or perhaps even better, they would inevitably fail in others, which would reveal that they are acting not from understanding, but only from the disposition of their organs. For whereas reason is a universal instrument, which can be used in all kinds of situations, these organs need some particular action; hence it is for all practical purposes impossible for a machine to have enough different organs to make it act in all the contingencies of life in the way in which our reason makes us act. (Translation by Robert Stoothoff)

Although not everything about this passage is perfectly clear, it does seem that Descartes gives a negative answer to the question whether machines can think; and, moreover, it seems that his giving this negative answer is tied to his confidence that no mere machine could pass The Turing Test: no mere machine could talk and act in the way in which adult human beings do. Since Descartes explicitly says that there are “two very certain means” by which we can rule out that something is a machine—it is, according to Descartes, inconceivable that a mere machine could produce different arrangements of words so as to give an appropriately meaningful answer to whatever is said in its presence; and it is for all practical purposes impossible for a machine to have enough different organs to make it act in all the contingencies of life in the way in which our reason makes us act—it seems that he must agree with the further claim that nothing that can produce different arrangements of words so as to give an appropriately meaningful answer to whatever is said in its presence can be a machine. Given the further assumption—which one suspects that Descartes would have been prepared to grant—that only things that think can produce different arrangements of words so as to give an appropriately meaningful answer to whatever is said in their presence, it seems to follow that Descartes would have agreed that the Turing Test would be a good test of his confident assumption that there cannot be thinking machines. Given the knowledge that something is indeed a machine, evidence that that thing can produce different arrangements of words so as to give an appropriately meaningful answer to whatever is said in its presence is evidence that there can be thinking machines.

The phrase “The Turing Test” is also sometimes used to refer to certain kinds of purely behavioural allegedly logically sufficient conditions for the presence of mind, or thought, or intelligence, in putatively minded entities. So, for example, Ned Block's “Blockhead” thought experiment is often said to be a (putative) knockdown objection to The Turing Test. (Block (1981) contains a direct discussion of The Turing Test in this context.) Here, what a proponent of this view has in mind is the idea that it is logically possible for an entity to pass the kinds of tests that Descartes and (at least allegedly) Turing have in mind—to use words (and, perhaps, to act) in just the kind of way that human beings do—and yet to be entirely lacking in intelligence, not possessed of a mind, etc.

The subsequent discussion takes up the preceding ideas in the order in which they have been introduced. First, there is a discussion of Turing's paper (1950), and of the arguments contained therein. Second, there is a discussion of current assessments of various proposals that have been called “The Turing Test” (whether or not there is much merit in the application of this label to the proposals in question). Third, there is a brief discussion of some recent writings on The Turing Test, including some discussion of the question whether The Turing Test sets an appropriate goal for research into artificial intelligence. Finally, there is a very short discussion of Searle's Chinese Room argument, and, in particular, of the bearing of this argument on The Turing Test. [stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy]

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I simply wanted to bring that excerpt up because it could really settle difference between an A.I. and a machine with pre-recorded data. I know, I know. "But aren't those basically saying the same thing?" No, it's not - when something has artificial intelligence, it can only reach a certain degree if intelligence. Generally speaking, all and any data systems programmed into the mechanisms would only be capable of accomplishing particular tasks that it was set out to do. If the data is pre-recorded, then it cannot change its task routine whatsoever.

Maxis not only know the current situation at hand, but is also able to fluctuate different agendas based on what has and will occur. He managed to control rockets to particular locations while admitting he did not expect for the blast radius to be so large, was capable of acknowledging the crew in Tranzit as "not one of them" (Maxis radio), and could understand whether the crew would follow him or Richtofen (in Die Rise where you have the option to Sliquify the orbs if siding with Richtofen).

These are just a few of several aspects to understand how Maxis is an embodied entity inside electronics, and not an A.I. Had he been one, I'm sure he would not program every electronic device in the world to become his "body" so our new crew could hear him.

[MysteryMachineX]

These are just a few of several aspects to understand how Maxis is an embodied entity inside electronics, and not an A.I. Had he been one, I'm sure he would not program every electronic device in the world to become his "body" so our new crew could hear him.

An entity in the electronics is in itself an A.I. You could say he has been "digitized". Everything he is is technological. Your idea of an A.I. is skewed. We know the Bus Driver is an A.I. So throw out everything you thought you knew. The Bus Driver has emotions. Therefore A.I. can have emotions. Maxis is using wireless communication to communicate to other devices. However, mainframe of Griffin Station is what truly is his "body". That's where he resides.

[InfestLithium]

An entity in the electronics is in itself an A.I. You could say he has been "digitized". Everything he is is technological. Your idea of an A.I. is skewed. We know the Bus Driver is an A.I. So throw out everything you thought you knew. The Bus Driver has emotions. Therefore A.I. can have emotions. Maxis is using wireless communication to communicate to other devices. However, mainframe of Griffin Station is what truly is his "body". That's where he resides.

Alright, that's a bit understandable. In that case, I think you just answered your own question.

But how would an A.I. attempt to gain power from an entity residing in the Aether? Maybe I'm misinterpreting your comment and you are actually saying that Maxis has the similarities to that of an A.I. and it is more than likely he is at this very moment. When I think about it, this would mean that Maxis would had to known about Griffin Station prior to being "digitized", since you would technically need to program mechanisms to hold such data systems.

I agree that his entity primarily resides there, but the thought of him being able to access everything electronic outside the station and on Earth escapes me. I feel that Maxis is not an A.I., but rather a ghost in a shell.

[MysteryMachineX]

The Griffin Station mainframe and the MPD are hard-wired into each other. I think it is safe to say anything is possible.

No. The MPD needs souls. Maxis was killed near the MPD. So his soul went into it. Somehow he managed to "get into the machine", or so Richtofen says. Next thing we know is that he is in the Griffin Station mainframe. Think about it. Maxis was the only sentient being whose soul went into the tanks of the MPD.

Btw, if he became a technological being in Griffin Station with a communicator... he could access worldwide electronics via some worldwide technological wireless invention... like the internet.

[InfestLithium]

Then that being said, we could assume that he is not an A.I., but a "technological being" just as you said, yes?

[SeaboundSlayer]

I remember reading that the scientists working on activating the MPD were killing prisoners to fill up the tanks? Surely if Maxis becomes a being living in the Aether with the ability to communicate with our dimension, the prisoners would too? What makes Maxis so special? Also, didn't Samantha trap Gercsh in the Aether with her because she was getting lonely? If she had her Daddy in there with her I imagine he would be enough company, and I doubt he would approve of doing that to poor Gersch.

[InfestLithium]

I remember reading that the scientists working on activating the MPD were killing prisoners to fill up the tanks? Surely if Maxis becomes a being living in the Aether with the ability to communicate with our dimension, the prisoners would too? What makes Maxis so special? Also, didn't Samantha trap Gercsh in the Aether with her because she was getting lonely? If she had her Daddy in there with her I imagine he would be enough company, and I doubt he would approve of doing that to poor Gersch.

Just as MMX said, Maxis' soul was trapped briefly inside the containers, but somehow injected into the mainframe of Griffin Station. When a situation that calls for the separation of persona, many consider it free will or coincidence. I call it coincidence that Maxis became embodied inside the central mainframe of the station.

Gersch wasn't in the Aether; he was trapped by his own mechanism. The objective of Ascension's Easter Egg was to free him by successfully completing the Kassimir Mechanism.

[SeaboundSlayer]

Just as MMX said, Maxis' soul was trapped briefly inside the containers, but somehow injected into the mainframe of Griffin Station. When a situation that calls for the separation of persona, many consider it free will or coincidence. I call it coincidence that Maxis became embodied inside the central mainframe of the station.

Gersch wasn't in the Aether; he was trapped by his own mechanism. The objective of Ascension's Easter Egg was to free him by successfully completing the Kassimir Mechanism.

Sorry, I must have missed that part. I think putting things down to coincidence is bad writing, and this is something I imagine the zombie story developers would try to keep away from. When I first heard the radio message where Maxis says "KILL THEM ALL!" I thought a shot was fired at Samantha (of course leaving her unharmed), and this is why Maxis can be heard shouting right after the shot has been fired. From watching a lot of movies I've noticed that when someone is shot fatally they are usually silent, in shock. Seems a bit strange that Maxis would shout "No!" after being shot, doesn't it? Imagine it, lol.

[MysteryMachineX]

Then that being said, we could assume that he is not an A.I., but a "technological being" just as you said, yes?

I say both are correct. He is a technological being. He is intelligent. And he is artificial.

I remember reading that the scientists working on activating the MPD were killing prisoners to fill up the tanks? Surely if Maxis becomes a being living in the Aether with the ability to communicate with our dimension, the prisoners would too? What makes Maxis so special? Also, didn't Samantha trap Gercsh in the Aether with her because she was getting lonely? If she had her Daddy in there with her I imagine he would be enough company, and I doubt he would approve of doing that to poor Gersch.

We don't know whether those prisoners were still alive or not. Some people think they were. Some think they were zombies. But you do bring up a good point. So perhaps Maxis wasn't the ONLY human in there. But he certainly was the smartest, the only with computer experience. But Maxis's body didn't go IN the Pyramid. The only people to go IN it were Samantha, Richtofen, and possibly Gersch. Maxis was locked away until the power on the Moon came back on.

Just as MMX said, Maxis' soul was trapped briefly inside the containers, but somehow injected into the mainframe of Griffin Station. When a situation that calls for the separation of persona, many consider it free will or coincidence. I call it coincidence that Maxis became embodied inside the central mainframe of the station.

Gersch wasn't in the Aether; he was trapped by his own mechanism. The objective of Ascension's Easter Egg was to free him by successfully completing the Kassimir Mechanism.

And you must consider Maxis's experience with the Datenbediensteter.

I think Gersch was in Aether. That's how Samantha was able to physically torture him. The Casimir Mechanism has a lot to do with his containment in there. But honestly, I don't think we can begin to fathom how exactly that works. Even when Richtofen switched souls, he mentioned uplinking to the Casimir Mechanism. It kept getting brought up.

Sorry, I must have missed that part. I think putting things down to coincidence is bad writing, and this is something I imagine the zombie story developers would try to keep away from. When I first heard the radio message where Maxis says "KILL THEM ALL!" I thought a shot was fired at Samantha (of course leaving her unharmed), and this is why Maxis can be heard shouting right after the shot has been fired. From watching a lot of movies I've noticed that when someone is shot fatally they are usually silent, in shock. Seems a bit strange that Maxis would shout "No!" after being shot, doesn't it? Imagine it, lol.

You hear someone shouting, but I do not think it is Maxis, just some scientist.

[SeaboundSlayer]

You hear someone shouting, but I do not think it is Maxis, just some scientist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8V79sYFAGQ go to 16:17. I reckon it is him.

[MysteryMachineX]

It sounds nothing like him. It was a much higher pitch than Maxis's voice. It also was said in a faster pace than Maxis has EVER spoken. The tempo was off. It was also more hoarse than Maxis's voice.

[Tac]

I used to think it was Maxis, but I'm unsure anymore.

One way is that Maxis says to kill them all, a gunshot is heard, someone yells no and then the MPD closes (we hear the hissing gas) and Sam laughs her demonic voice to show that she was not injured by the shot. The shot was fired to end her, that way she could not kill them all, and Maxis yells no out of fear for his daughters life.

Another way is that Maxis says to kill them all and a gunshot is heard, striking Maxis, and Groph yells no, followed by him saying "we are all doomed" because Maxis died and couldn't help fix anything anymore. However, I don't know why Samantha would laugh if she just watched father die and why she would ask in Moon where he was if she had seen him die. On the flip side, there are quotes by Sam saying he'd hurt them for what he did, but I think that was said before the radio and refers to the first teleportation from Der Riese.

I'm leaning towards the first.

[MysteryMachineX]

Tac, we discussed this before. You can hear the thud of Maxis's body hitting the floor. As for Samantha's quotes, I think that is a result of how Maxis "sorta" died. Btw, listen to the thuds. The sound is complex, perhaps the sound was that of a body and a gun? It just seems to support the idea that Maxis shot himself. I personally don't like that idea though. : /

[Monopoly Mac]

I like to think that Edward walked in at the last second and shot Maxis. Then it would actually make sense for Samantha to hate Edward for taking daddy away. But that's just an interesting idea that can't be proved.

And I just realized that Maxis knew what the pyramid was capable of. He tells her to kill them all so must have knew that it had the power to control. You guys probably already knew that but it's new to me so... Cool!

[MysteryMachineX]

One of the reasons Samantha was after the main characters was because Richtofen was the last remaining survivor of the Group 935 rebels. It'd make no sense for him to have been there at the time. It was also given to us that Richtofen was not there at the time from the previous radio.

And yes, Maxis knows quite a bit. It's one of the reasons people don't like him so much; he knows a lot and says little.

[Monopoly Mac]

As I re-examine the radios, I realize the error of that theory. Withdrawn.

On the topic of Maxis, I'm beginning to think that his goal with the missiles wasn't to actually strike the Earth, but to explode and destroy the atmosphere. Except because of his miscalculations, the missiles produced a much larger explosion than expected and they rocked the Earth.

I'm thinking this because the Ionosphere could possibly be what links Aethers control to the zombies. In Greek mythology, Aether was the personification of the upper sky or heaven. The Ionosphere is used in real life to propagate radios transmissions and in a lot of conspiracy theorists mind, HAARP is being used to manipulate this section of the atmosphere to control our minds. Destroying it would like Maxis said, "sever Richtofens leg with Earth".

[Zelkova]

People, do know that A.I. have been shown to have emotions before, a A.I. isn't technically a A.I. unless it has emotion. Artificial Intelligence, they are meant to be equivalent to humans but are mechanically built.

[MysteryMachineX]

@Monopoly Mac: That's really just theory though. I think Maxis's true intentions will become known in due time.

@Zelkova: I agree. Thank you.

[MysteryMachineX]

So if everyone is okay with Maxis's soul being sucked into the MPD into the Griffin Station mainframe, I'll add it. I'll hold on for at least a few hours to give the chance for someone to object. (or forever hold your peace )

[InfestLithium]

So if everyone is okay with Maxis's soul being sucked into the MPD into the Griffin Station mainframe, I'll add it. I'll hold on for at least a few hours to give the chance for someone to object. (or forever hold your peace )

It's the most reasonable thing we have so far. While I'd be interested to hear any other reasons as to differ it, I can't see this concept being wrong.

Now that I look back, there has been A TON of progress and dedication put into this thread. In case I haven't said it already, thank you for continuously putting your efforts into creating the ultimate trilogy transcript for the storyline, MMX. :)

[MysteryMachineX]

Thank you. I appreciate it. I'm working on an update that will incorporate this. Check back later to see results. If I get it done quickly enough, I'll just edit this post. Otherwise, I'll put it in my next post.

[MysteryMachineX]

Okay. I'm changing the Maxis A.I.:

Here is what P29 used to look like:

P29.Dr. Maxis had died, but he had planned ahead just in case something happened to him. With his past computer experience from the Datenbediensteter, he was able to devise an artificial intelligence, or A.I., copy of himself in a data format. He planted it in Griffin Station, either by a hard drive or a wireless connection at some point prior to this. After Samantha killed most, if not all, of the people present at Griffin Station, she turned her sights on Richtofen. Richtofen was at Shi No Numa when Dr. McKay arrived. Cornelius had told Dr. McKay to try to speak with either Dr. Maxis or Richtofen for help, believing that one of them may help him. After all, Dr. McKay was missing an arm, and his cover hadn't been blown.

Shi No Numa Radio 1

Dr. McKay went to Richtofen in a time of need, but Richtofen had discovered that Dr. McKay was an American spy, so Richtofen hung Dr. McKay.

Here is what it looks like now:

P29.When Dr. Maxis died in front of the MPD, his soul got sucked up into it. The MPD was hardwired into the Griffin Station mainframe, and Maxis was able to enter the mainframe to preserve himself. After Samantha killed most, if not all, of the people present at Griffin Station, the power went out, essentially freezing Dr. Maxis. Samantha then turned her sights on Richtofen. Richtofen was at Shi No Numa when Dr. McKay arrived. Cornelius had told Dr. McKay to try to speak with either Dr. Maxis or Richtofen for help, believing that one of them may help him. After all, Dr. McKay was missing an arm, and his cover hadn't been blown.

Shi No Numa Radio 1

Dr. McKay went to Richtofen in a time of need, but Richtofen had discovered that Dr. McKay was an American spy, so Richtofen hung Dr. McKay.

What do you guys think? If you're okay with this, then I'll make a minor change to the wording of P57 when he was awoken from his "sleep". Also, since Maxis is now mentioned so often, I'll change the "Dr." prefix like I did with Richtofen (keeping it consistent).

[SeaboundSlayer]

Dr. McKay went to Richtofen in a time of need, but Richtofen had discovered that Dr. McKay was an American spy, so Richtofen hung Dr. McKay.

It's hanged* if you're talking about execution.

[nayrcraig]

I think that the edition is good as it gives a more accurate description of what happened, it defiantly seems that he was "awakened" when the power turned on, further showing his link with electronics.

I think ill look into the maxis stuff myself a bit, been following discussion here but I might look over the radios ect. again to make sure I personally agree