New breakthrough in SNN location! [UPDATE]

[Tac]

Well first off, Japan called INNER Manchuria an independent STATE, not nation, meaning it is still under Japan. I'm just getting that out of the way so that you can quote your facts a bit more precisely. Japan held the area since 1931 and we are talking about America, not Germany or Japan. I honestly think that almost anyone, especially America because that is mentioned in the intel, would call it Japan since it is part of the Empire and they have held the area for so many years.

If you are unwilling to believe that, fine, but we know that Treyarch didn't have much idea of anything way back in the story's early production, there are many things that prove that. As for Japan, I have nothing against saying it is in the mainlands of Japan, it's just that no one has presented any sort of evidence for that because we have nothing but circumstantial evidence to say anything about the map.

[ZombieOfTheDead]

Well first off, Japan called INNER Manchuria an independent STATE, not nation, just getting that out of the way so that you can quote your facts a bit more precisely. Japan held the area since 1931 and we are talking about America, not Germany or Japan. I honestly think that almost anyone, especially America because that is mentioned in the intel, would call it Japan since it is part of the Empire and they have held the area for so many years.

If you are unwilling to believe that, fine, but we know that Treyarch didn't have much idea of anything way back in the story's early production, there are many things that prove that. As for Japan, I have nothing against saying it is in the mainlands of Japan, it's just that no one has presented any sort of evidence for that because we have nothing but circumstantial evidence to say anything about the map.

Did people call any other conquest of the Japanese japan? I sincerely doubt it, maybe you should ask people who were alive at the time. Was new guinea called japan? I think not. You see, countries can refuse to recognize places as part of a country. I doubt Manchuria is any different, and even then it was considered a different country by the freakin japanese!

Now you are just denying what I'm saying, man. First of all, independent means independent. They were not technically a part of Japan. State can also mean nation. Combining the two would be an independent nation. Would it really make sense for anybody to call it independent if it were a part of another country?

[MP40SoWunderbar]

I know I am really late on this, but I agree with TI. It could be in Manchuria. When we took over Hawaii, what did we consider it? Part of the U.S.A.. When Nazi Germany took over Poland, what did we consider it? A part of Germany. We would do the same with anything. And also, German soldiers who fought for the country, not the ideas of the Third Reich, probably considered Poland a part of Germany. The reason why most wouldn't is because the Nazi's thought they were the ultimate warriors. Takeo could see it from this point of view. And back on early, there was the debate about the Hyenas. They easily could have come from India, where they live as referenced here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hyaenidae_range.png On there, it shows that the Hyenas lived in India. If any left India, we have the Hyena. As for the bird: As mentioned before, the Japanese Empire was insanely rich. The Emperor could have heard of the bird, and wanted it. Then he saw it in person, didn't like it, sent it to Manchuria (sent the undesired bird to the undesired land) and allowed it to be tested on. Outbreak happens, they escape, and settle in the area. This is my THEORY on the subject.

[ZombieOfTheDead]

Again, I stress "Independent State." That means it was not a part of Japan at all (Though it was controlled through as a puppet state). In this sense, it wouldn't be considered part of Japan.

Again, for New Guinea... it just seems a bit far away from the blast. I still don't think Japan or anyone else would consider it actual Japan, but that is just how I would view it from their perspective, and certainly American's perspectives back then. Manchuria, however, I am now 100% sure is not where Shi no numa is located.

[Tac]

Suit yourself. It seems like most of everything is just us bickering on how we would have viewed it back then so this conversation is virtually useless. I am 100% sure it's Manchuria, you are 100% sure it's not, that's fine, disagreements happen.

[ZombieOfTheDead]

Suit yourself. It seems like most of everything is just us bickering on how we would have viewed it back then so this conversation is virtually useless. I am 100% sure it's Manchuria, you are 100% sure it's not, that's fine, disagreements happen.

Hint hint: READ. I actually gave physical evidence for it 100% not being Manchuria. Independent state=free from any other countries, even though it was secretly ruled by Japan. Was not a part of their empire. Therefore, it can not be in Manchuria.

The U.S., or any country for that matter, would not refer to this region as japan in that sense, even if they knew it was actually ruled by Japan (which they most likely did).

[Tankeo Dempsaki]

All I know is, somehow we figured it was in the Pacific.

That's enough for me. :D

[MP40SoWunderbar]

Again, I stress "Independent State." That means it was not a part of Japan at all (Though it was controlled through as a puppet state). In this sense, it wouldn't be considered part of Japan.

My problem with this is that if the OSS found out that the Japanese pretty much had Manchuria, but they acted as if it was an independent state, they would treat it as Japan. Same thing with the Abwehr/Other German intelligence groups. Thus, Dempsey and Richtofen would consider it Japan, since that is what they are told.

Again, for New Guinea... it just seems a bit far away from the blast. I still don't think Japan or anyone else would consider it actual Japan, but that is just how I would view it from their perspective, and certainly American's perspectives back then. Manchuria, however, I am now 100% sure is not where Shi no numa is located.

First, we can never rule out anywhere, unless it is completely implausible (Europe, The Americas, etc.) Second, we would consider it Japan, since they took over the area, and ruled it as a puppet state. Third, we have already seemingly ruled out New Guinea. Our current argument is about Manchuria, which is our current best case, so far as I know. If you have other theories, I would love to see them. (Just to clarify, no inflection of sarcasm in that.)

[ZombieOfTheDead]

Again, I stress "Independent State." That means it was not a part of Japan at all (Though it was controlled through as a puppet state). In this sense, it wouldn't be considered part of Japan.

My problem with this is that if the OSS found out that the Japanese pretty much had Manchuria, but they acted as if it was an independent state, they would treat it as Japan. Same thing with the Abwehr/Other German intelligence groups. Thus, Dempsey and Richtofen would consider it Japan, since that is what they are told.

Richtofen would not, Germany recognized the place as an independent state. Dempsey would not, as a U.S. soldier generally refers to the area he's fighting in as it's name.

Again, for New Guinea... it just seems a bit far away from the blast. I still don't think Japan or anyone else would consider it actual Japan, but that is just how I would view it from their perspective, and certainly American's perspectives back then. Manchuria, however, I am now 100% sure is not where Shi no numa is located.

First, we can never rule out anywhere, unless it is completely implausible (Europe, The Americas, etc.) Second, we would consider it Japan, since they took over the area, and ruled it as a puppet state. Third, we have already seemingly ruled out New Guinea. Our current argument is about Manchuria, which is our current best case, so far as I know. If you have other theories, I would love to see them. (Just to clarify, no inflection of sarcasm in that.)

I just want to point one thing out... Back then, the U.S. would not recognize any of those countries as Japan. If their enemies took something, they would not recognize it as being their enemies. Similar to how the U.S. recognized Taiwan as the official government of China until the 70s, which pissed off the communist government of China. They would not call it Japan, they would call the region its name.

EDIT: However, at the same time, the league of nations did not view manchuria as independent. This does not mean they would refer to Manchuria as Japan.

[Tac]

It was an independent state of the Japanese, meaning its ruler was Chinese, but it was still owned and controlled by Japan and was part of their empire, that is undeniable. They conquered the area, it is part of their empire. Therefore, it can still be Manchuria. I see no reason why they wouldn't refer to it as Japan, if it was ruled by them for 14 years, I know that I would have and I believe that the Americans would have called it that too. I think this topic is just pointless at this point, I don't appreciate your condescending remarks of how I just need to READ and I am not discussing this anymore with you, it appears that neither of us will change our mind. I don't want this to come between us, I just don't agree with you, as does many other people. If you want to reply feel free to do so in a PM. :)

[ZombieOfTheDead]

I sent a message out, but here is some evidence for my matter that I think everyone should read.

The United States introduced a policy of non-recognition, declaring that it would not recognize Japan's conquest.

Source:http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1661.html

There is also a map of Japanese controlled area (which includes Manchuria, however that does not say their empire, so again, not japan.)

If we ever come to an agreement, we should also an announce it here

[BlindBusDrivr]

I sent a message out, but here is some evidence for my matter that I think everyone should read.

The United States introduced a policy of non-recognition, declaring that it would not recognize Japan's conquest.

Source:http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1661.html

There is also a map of Japanese controlled area (which includes Manchuria, however that does not say their empire, so again, not japan.)

If we ever come to an agreement, we should also an announce it here

Who cares what America thinks? It's not our territory, it doesn't matter who we thought controlled it over half a century ago.

Fact is, it was apart of the Japanese Empire.

Which Takeo, called Japan.

And if that is the problem you have with the theories, then what is yours?

Because that would also proclaim Matuzz's New Guinea theory as false because it was part of conquered Japanese Territory too.

Also, in terms of Tunguska, Manchuria is the only one which passes the common sense test of being able to be reached by the damn rock fragments, since it is directly on the Russian border.

Now can we take this argument back to Tac's thread about Manchuria?

This is about Matuzz's New Guinea's theory, not 'whether Manchuria would be called Japan'

[ZombieOfTheDead]

I sent a message out, but here is some evidence for my matter that I think everyone should read.

The United States introduced a policy of non-recognition, declaring that it would not recognize Japan's conquest.

Source:http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1661.html

There is also a map of Japanese controlled area (which includes Manchuria, however that does not say their empire, so again, not japan.)

If we ever come to an agreement, we should also an announce it here

Who cares what America thinks? It's not our territory, it doesn't matter who we thought controlled it over half a century ago.

Fact is, it was apart of the Japanese Empire.

Which Takeo, called Japan.

And if that is the problem you have with the theories, then what is yours?

Because that would also proclaim Matuzz's New Guinea theory as false because it was part of conquered Japanese Territory too.

Also, in terms of Tunguska, Manchuria is the only one which passes the common sense test of being able to be reached by the damn rock fragments, since it is directly on the Russian border.

Now can we take this argument back to Tac's thread about Manchuria?

This is about Matuzz's New Guinea's theory, not 'whether Manchuria would be called Japan'

What the... JAPAN called it independent. They did not consider it in their empire, even though they controlled it behind the scenes. So essentially, In NEITHER way would it be considered Japan. Now I am seriously wondering if you guys have even read what I said, because I brought that part up numerous times.

And as for rock fragments, I agree. Manchuria is the closest, therefore being the most likely, however what I said previously counteracts this. New Guinea is definitely too far, IMO.

It is freakin mainland Japan, or an island very close to it. I've provided the evidence, you guys are not taking it. If you still do not believe me, consult with a WWII Japanese or American veteran and see what they would have called manchuria. You will not get an answer very different from mine.

[Ehjookayted]

This is barely relevant to the discussion of Shi No Numa's location anymore. Keep it under control, or I'm locking this thread. You all need to relate your conclusions back to the evidence. Don't get muddled in your assertions. This goes for everyone.

Talk about Shi No Numa here, like BBD said. If you want to discuss history civilly, create a thread in the Member Lounge.

[ZombieOfTheDead]

This is barely relevant to the discussion of Shi No Numa's location anymore. Keep it under control, or I'm locking this thread. You all need to relate your conclusions back to the evidence. Don't get muddled in your assertions. This goes for everyone.

Talk about Shi No Numa here, like BBD said. If you want to discuss history civilly, create a thread in the Member Lounge.

We were talking about shi no numa... this is how we are finding out the location. You need to be assertive to actually get the facts right. Sometimes, that's just the way it works. Stuff like this happens when you discuss the storyline.

But anyways, we resolved our argument on the other thread which more directly relates to it.

ANYWAYS, lets get back to discussing New Guinea here. Like I said, I sincerely doubt that the meteor would go that far a distance. I'm really going to say it's just ambiance, the bird and hyena sounds.

[Ehjookayted]

Do you have details on the blast radius of the meteor? Also, the argument for New Guinea is quite strong, considering the Japanese invasion of it, as well as the casualties, the similar environment. However, I would like to see your contentions agains the New Guinea theory.

[ZombieOfTheDead]

Do you have details on the blast radius of the meteor? Also, the argument for New Guinea is quite strong, considering the Japanese invasion of it, as well as the casualties, the similar environment. However, I would like to see your contentions agains the New Guinea theory.

We had one a few posts (maybe pages) back. It really didn't go out of Russia, So it's more likely to be Manchuria or High up Japan.

HOWEVER, we can not rule out, now that I think about it, that they simply moved the meteor fragments. I do not see a crater around Shi no numa, after all.

Also, it would be kind of dangerous for SNN to be in New Guinea, since that was the edge of their empire. If america took that, all their resources would be lost. Plus, by the time Shi no numa has its outbreak, it is likely 1945. Was new guinea taken back then? (I forget).

[MyLittleHellhound]

Do you have details on the blast radius of the meteor? Also, the argument for New Guinea is quite strong, considering the Japanese invasion of it, as well as the casualties, the similar environment. However, I would like to see your contentions agains the New Guinea theory.

We had one a few posts (maybe pages) back. It really didn't go out of Russia, So it's more likely to be Manchuria or High up Japan.

HOWEVER, we can not rule out, now that I think about it, that they simply moved the meteor fragments. I do not see a crater around Shi no numa, after all.

Also, it would be kind of dangerous for SNN to be in New Guinea, since that was the edge of their empire. If america took that, all their resources would be lost. Plus, by the time Shi no numa has its outbreak, it is likely 1945. Was new guinea taken back then? (I forget).

Well, what if the meteor fell, created a small lake, (it is sitting in water right?) and then the plants and vegetation grew over it?

[ZombieOfTheDead]

Well, what if the meteor fell, created a small lake, (it is sitting in water right?) and then the plants and vegetation grew over it?

They say time heals all wounds, but still, I don't think this is the case here. The impact would have been greater (swamp depth is really small), and I don't think some of the trees would be as tall as they are.

[Matuzz]

Just to note, we can't be 100% sure that the meteorite of SNN is from Tunguska.

The Group 935 may have found out that Tunguska's meteorite might contain 115 like Shi No Numa's meteorite.

Because there is 115 rocks all over the world (Shangri La, Ascension). Most likely Ascension was founded around Tunguska meteorite.

[MP40SoWunderbar]

Do you have details on the blast radius of the meteor? Also, the argument for New Guinea is quite strong, considering the Japanese invasion of it, as well as the casualties, the similar environment. However, I would like to see your contentions agains the New Guinea theory.

We had one a few posts (maybe pages) back. It really didn't go out of Russia, So it's more likely to be Manchuria or High up Japan.

HOWEVER, we can not rule out, now that I think about it, that they simply moved the meteor fragments. I do not see a crater around Shi no numa, after all.

Also, it would be kind of dangerous for SNN to be in New Guinea, since that was the edge of their empire. If america took that, all their resources would be lost. Plus, by the time Shi no numa has its outbreak, it is likely 1945. Was new guinea taken back then? (I forget).

I agree with you here. That would be incredibly dangerous for them, and the Americans did have New Guinea in 1945. In fact, if memory serves me right, the Japanese only had parts of New Guinea, and they were driven off in 1942-43. Therefor, we can assume the Japanese wouldn't have placed a base on PNG, mainly because they hadn't secured the island, and they wouldn't have wanted to lose the intel.

[Matuzz]

Do you have details on the blast radius of the meteor? Also, the argument for New Guinea is quite strong, considering the Japanese invasion of it, as well as the casualties, the similar environment. However, I would like to see your contentions agains the New Guinea theory.

We had one a few posts (maybe pages) back. It really didn't go out of Russia, So it's more likely to be Manchuria or High up Japan.

HOWEVER, we can not rule out, now that I think about it, that they simply moved the meteor fragments. I do not see a crater around Shi no numa, after all.

Also, it would be kind of dangerous for SNN to be in New Guinea, since that was the edge of their empire. If america took that, all their resources would be lost. Plus, by the time Shi no numa has its outbreak, it is likely 1945. Was new guinea taken back then? (I forget).

I agree with you here. That would be incredibly dangerous for them, and the Americans did have New Guinea in 1945. In fact, if memory serves me right, the Japanese only had parts of New Guinea, and they were driven off in 1942-43. Therefor, we can assume the Japanese wouldn't have placed a base on PNG, mainly because they hadn't secured the island, and they wouldn't have wanted to lose the intel.

There is always the things that we can't know how the history has occurred in zombie world.

Were Nazis ever in mainland Japan for instance?

[MP40SoWunderbar]

Odds are, yes. We assume that because they were Allies.

[ZombieOfTheDead]

There is always the things that we can't know how the history has occurred in zombie world.

Were Nazis ever in mainland Japan for instance?

They could have visited. Who said Shi no numa was a 935 base?

[Tac]

Germany even owned parts of New Guinea at one point, but that was back in World War 1.

According to my research, Germany worked with the Japanese on weapons for the war all of the world, even Japan. Hitler announced himself that Japan was a great geostrategic partner. Germany and Japan became very close after the Tripartite Pact in 1940, so I would easily assume that they were in the mainlands of Japan.