Did Five, Ascension, and possibly Kino Der Toten,ever exist?

[ZombieOfTheDead]

A few questions I have:

1. How do we know R doesn't know what Kino is? Radios don't say that. He seems to realize what it is in the solo loading screen. In the recently released music video from 3arc, Dempsey says "Where are we" but R says "When are we"

"Only time will tell what new questions await us in this theater of the damned." He doesn't know what happened here. He has never seen a nova crawler (Which is strange. They're on moon, too). Many quotes suggest he's never been there.

Also "how many stations does this group have" in the loading screen suggests to me, since he just teleported there, that he's wondering how many facilities Maxis put up since he didn't know about this one.

2. Casimir mechanism is in Moon and Ascension. Ascension happened, which means Five happened.

I think we all need to remember a very important fact that probably skewed the story a bit. Kino was supposed to be map pack 4 for WaW. Activision said no, so they had to remodel it to make it in the 60s, the time of Black Ops. I'm sure y'all have seen the concept drawings for Kino where it looks like an active facility.

[BlindBusDrivr]

I would just like to add to this that since this my theories about them have changed, but I still believe in the possibility that Five and Ascension are from alternate history's.

Especially with the whole Kino after Five thing, when Five has relics from Kino, and the pilots mixed up on the chart.

But hey, I've been wrong before about this stuff, right now it's probably best to continue with the belief that they DID happen in the main timeline, since little evidence supports otherwise. I myself am in agreement with that until more evidence proves otherwise.

[Faust]

Don't worry about it Tac, in hindsight that theory sucked.

[Tac]

A few questions I have:

1. How do we know R doesn't know what Kino is? Radios don't say that. He seems to realize what it is in the solo loading screen. In the recently released music video from 3arc, Dempsey says "Where are we" but R says "When are we"

2. Casimir mechanism is in Moon and Ascension. Ascension happened, which means Five happened.

I think we all need to remember a very important fact that probably skewed the story a bit. Kino was supposed to be map pack 4 for WaW. Activision said no, so they had to remodel it to make it in the 60s, the time of Black Ops. I'm sure y'all have seen the concept drawings for Kino where it looks like an active facility.

In Kino, when Richtofen enters the theater, he says: "They must have used this for controlling their minds." It is something extraordinarily close to that, and along with the other things mentioned, that is our reasoning that he was not aware of Kino, or at least what went on inside it.

[BlindBusDrivr]

A few questions I have:

1. How do we know R doesn't know what Kino is? Radios don't say that. He seems to realize what it is in the solo loading screen. In the recently released music video from 3arc, Dempsey says "Where are we" but R says "When are we"

2. Casimir mechanism is in Moon and Ascension. Ascension happened, which means Five happened.

I think we all need to remember a very important fact that probably skewed the story a bit. Kino was supposed to be map pack 4 for WaW. Activision said no, so they had to remodel it to make it in the 60s, the time of Black Ops. I'm sure y'all have seen the concept drawings for Kino where it looks like an active facility.

In Kino, when Richtofen enters the theater, he says: "They must have used this for controlling their minds." It is something extraordinarily close to that, and along with the other things mentioned, that is our reasoning that he was not aware of Kino, or at least what went on inside it.

speaking of the quotes, how are those transcripts coming along Tac?

[Tac]

Ugh, it takes so long, especially as you go through the maps and the quotes become more and more abundant. They are like 9-10 minutes in Shi No Numa, but they get to around 30 minuted on Moon

[ZeDoctor]

Acension really does have a mysterious dream-like vibe to it in my opinion. From the characters clothes, to the black and whiteness, to the thumbnail on the map selection screen. If you remember, it used to have a normal picture, and Treyarch changed it to a fuzzy TV screen picture as if you were watching it through someone elses eyes. I have a really hard lime placing Ascension in the story, but something about it is definately waiting to be revealed.....

[BlackOpsTiger]

Just want to quickly interject here and say that Richtofen is a liar remember the "Eddy is a liar" quote we are all familiar with?

-----

He was pretending not to know anything about Group 935, although he was perhaps the largest part of it, he does this so the other 3 don't become suspicious remember, he says something along the lines of "but they will do for now" as he is trying to complete his "Grand Scheme" which was ultimately to stop the voices "people trapped in Aether" like Sam, Gary, Brocke, Yuri, etc.

Telling him to free them and to control them all, revise the lyrics of "Im not ready to die" and this will become more lucid.

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/avengeds ... todie.html

By_B6bGIldU

Also, one last thing to note, it is possible with all of this time travel a "butterfly effect" was created where the zombies never really came alive until the soviets re-discovered 935, anything is possible.

I have a larger theory about this particular issue of "what really happened, what time period" etc. but I will need to gather more evidence first, also, you guys should look at some of Tank's quotes over the time of the maps, he is slowly regaining images of his past as he fights the zombies.

[Eddiethehead]

I am NOT A LIAR! Just kidding.

That the best theory I've herd yet. :brains:

[BlackOpsTiger]

ON SECOND THOUGHT I WON'T BE SO LAZY, HERE ARE SOME OF MY THOUGHTS ON TANK'S QUOTES, NOTICE AS THEY EVOLVE OVER TIME, TREYARCH IS CLEVER.

Shi-No-Numa

"I wonder if that rock brought those freak-bags..."

Referring to the 115 meteor, Tank is already suspicious about the history of the zombies, and is starting to uncover the plot

Welcome to Awesometown, population: 1. Me

Just thought I would put it in there, one of my favorite Tank quotes

Der Riese

"What are the Krauts gonna think of next?!"

Said after getting a monkey bomb, this tells us Tank was beginning to realize that these "Wunder Weapons" were created by Germans, and gets suspicious of Richtofen, who will often brag about his inventions

"Anybody ever hear of a "Die Glocke"?"

Die glocke was not labeled anywhere in Der Riese, specifically near the teleporter, which is what he says when he sees it, Tank is recalling 935's Die Glocke experiments, slowly, though, slowly

"I think Richtofen knows more about what's going on than it seems..."

Again, this is said when finding a teleporter, Tank is becoming more suspicious of Richtofen and what he knows about Die Glocke and Der Riese and this whole "Mission"

"Poor Richtofen! Surrounded by his own creations!"

This is proof that Tank already knows that Richtofen has created this mess, but this is the only blatant quote about Tank clearly saying Richtofen was involved in 935, so maybe Tank isn't letting on as much as he believes either...

"Who's this 'Doctor Maxis' I keep hearing about?"

Yes, the name is familiar to Tank, Maxi supervised Richtofen's mind control experiments.

Kino Der Toten

"Let's send those freakbags back to 1946!"

"Killing zombies since 1945! Ooh-Ra!"

"Well, I see the future hasn't changed anything! Fucking box!"

Time reference here, after teleporting away from Der Riese (we know this because of the Kino loading screen) Tank knows this isn't the 40's anymore. He is also aware of the time, meaning the mind control "memory deletion" is wearing off. This is known because MKULTRA and Soviet mind control research shows that when memory is deleted and a new personality is created, a since of time is lost, when they can tell you time, they are re-learning their past life again.

"Ahh, A tale of two Dempseys, starts slow but has a happy ending."

Notice he says a tale of TWO dempseys, could be him figuring he has two separate personalities, or that there will be a happy end to this, obviously the earth blowing up isn't happy, so maybe their will be more after all...

"Element 115. Concentrated to a single beam of pure badassery...wait...how the hell do I know that?"

This one was cut, because the Wunderwaffe was as well. But notice how Dempsey again recalls knowing about Element 115 and how the waffler works, but is confused about how he knows this, again growing EVER MORE suspicious.

Ascension

"Say "Hi" to Sam for me!"

Used when he throws a Gersch device. This is important because Tank also knows about Samantha, and that she is linked to the Gersch and Aether, he most likely knew about this while being a subject in 935, and is remembering more now.

"I don't like that Richtofen. I think I've seen him before Shi No Numa, in fact, I don't remember much at all..."

Tank says it all, he remembers Richtofen and starts to make the connection that he doesn't even remember anything BEFORE Richtofen

"Yeah, Nikolai is alright, I just think he is hiding something under all that booze."

Nikolai and Richtofen get along well, and Tank becomes suspicious of how much Richthofen truly likes Nikolai

COTD Trapped Characters

"Oh its situations like this make me wish I haven't erased their.......I mean.....(sings) force field, force field stuck behind a force field."

This one is Richtofen's quote but while they are trapped Richtofen is basically revealing to the player's that he knows a LOT about the time travel and MDT and says they went "too far into the future" I'm assuming they were trying to go forward to when Area 51 was linked with Griffin Station

Burps. "You know, sometimes I feel like I can't remember a time before the zombies, er, I really can't. Heh heh, maybe it's the vodka. Well, maybe not."

Again, he can't remember anything before Zombies, so he is developing a hunch.

"Oh come on! This better be more rewarding than last time. Stupid Gersch."

Reveals that Ascension came directly before Call of the Dead, the order the maps were released is the EXACT order they happened in, excluding Five I believe that happened sometime while Kennedy and Castro were still alive, obviously.

"All in good time my clever Dempsey, all in good time!"

Richtofen's quote, but he notices himself Tank is becoming clever and is remembering.

Shangri-La

"Finally, we're out of that damn closet!"

Again, proof the maps release order is exactly how it happened, and they aren't split up into two different dimensions, just time traveling, I believe Shangri-La takes place in the Cold War, but when you do the Easter Egg and the eclipse starts you are traveled back thousands of years to the time of the vril-ya or something

"Alright zombies, it's time to meet your maker...well the first maker...not Richtofen."

Confirms that Dempsey has connected the dots by now, and knows that Richtofen has created the zombies, its unclear whether Dempsey knew of Rictofen's evil Scheme or if he just thought Richtofen was trying to help rid the zombies.

"Richtofen is scheming something big, as usual. I bet it's no good for the rest of us. Better keep an eye on him."

Hints that Richtofen has a scheme, but is unsure whether it will be good for them, Tank begins to realize he may just be a pawn helping out Richtofen.

Moon

"Home sweet home."

Dempsey recognizes he is in America, and Nevada specifically.

"Uh, that's it? Seriously? All that work and all we did was blow up the Earth? What the fuck..."

But is it really over?...

Also, take a look at the last sentence of Dempsey's Biography:

Now you know there is no before the war for Dempsey, and there is no after. There is only the legend of Tank Dempsey, and how he will win the war for the rest of us."

"and how he will win the war for the rest of us..."

Is this a sign of things to come, Tank will be the hero that figured out Richtofen's plan and came up with a way to stop him?

There is no before the war, and no after, just Tank, so he will become the same as before the war, and he will "help win the war for the rest of us".... interesting Treyarch... very interesting....

AND.... My new interpretations of the A7X Song "I'm Not Ready to die"

Here was my old thread that I released before Moon where I looked at the songs and predicted Richtofen's scheme was to kill Samantha who was controlling the zombies, and either Richtofen or Samantha wanted to completely blow up the Earth.

And well.... just that ended up happening, these songs are important.

Summary: Richtofen realizes that he would rather control the army of the undead than be loyal to Group 935, so he kills Maxis.

When this does not work, he is led to the "writings on the wall" and realizes he must return to "daddy's little girl" and destroy her, and the Earth, and control "935".

Gone

Cast away in time

Evil yours, now evil mine

So I robbed you blind

The voices in my head suggest a less than peaceful side

The endless possibilities

Controlling 935.

Gone, cast away in time. Is referring to the time travel that Richtofen is being cast into, or is perhaps even stuck in.

Evil your now evil Mine, refers to Samantha's "evil" becoming Richtofens "Evil"

Robbing you blind is Richtofen killing Maxis, "blindly" by trapping him with a hellhound.

The voices in Richtofen's head are telling him of what Group 935 is really capable of, they tell him to kill Maxis (this while he was insane) after Samantha took over, events and quotes suggest that the characters "stuck in Aether" with Samantha tell Richtofen to "free them" and to Kill Samantha, Richtofen craves power. He sees the endless possibilities of "controlling Group 935" which is basically the system they had set up to control an undead army, which Samantha possesses.

Chorus

You can't break me

Crushed the fears of yesterday

You can't save me

Barriers, our trust will fade.

I've stood in the dark

Been waiting all this time

While we damn the dead I'm trying to survive

I'm not ready to die

Richtofen is determined to not be "broken" and no longer fears anyone standing in his way, symbolized by the killing of Maxis, he has "fallen" to evil and can't be saved.

The barriers of "trust" fading is referring to mind control, and Tank in specific, basically saying he better hury the hell up, because the "barrier" was what kept him from controlling the mind, but now Tank is untrustful and may cross the "trust barrier" like Richtofen did with Maxis.

"standing in the dark and waiting" is basically him saying he has been plotting this all this time, and can't die now.

Damned

Watch the masses fall

Burn it down, control 'em all

(Help me) Make me crawl

To daddy's little girl to read the writings on the wall

[color=#009933Watching the masses fall refers to the zombies being "damned" or killed. Burn it down is a reference to "burning" the Earth with the chemical rockets launched from the moon, other songs and events prove this as well.

"make me crawl" to daddy's little girl, writings on the wall. Remember "Return through Aether" in der riese, reading the writings on the wall is how Richtofen would return to "daddys little girl" (sam). aether is what he goes through while using the MDT.]

While cast into the nothingness

The final curtain call

Perhaps a reference to the final "curtain call" I can only think to connect this to the Earth being blown up.

REPEAT CHORUS

[Guitar solo]

Through the madness we find

Loyalty is no match for power

Say goodbye to your life, left to rot in

Your darkest hour

Prayers won't help you now as long as you're mine

This verse explains exactly what Richtofen thought or maybe even said as he killed Maxis.

Loyalty to Group 935 and his superiors, hitler, Maxis, etc. were no match for the power that controlling the undead army would bring. So, he killed Maxis to try and take over himself, but Samantha would have an "accident" her feelings and description of this are described in the other songs, and the girls crying, the lullaby, they are all about Samantha's "new life" or "rebirth"

The rest are thoughts of a madman, leaving Maxis to die and saying that Prayers won't help him, as long as he's under Richtofen's control, dying.

REPEAT CHORUS

I'll control the world

One person at a time

As I damn the dead I'm trying to survive

I'm not ready to die!

Oh!

I'm not ready to die!

Completely confirms that Richtofen wants to control the world, one "person" at a time, and he does not want to die.

This is his Grand Scheme.