Pro Perks in Zombies

[TheDunbarian]

The idea of being able to upgrade your perk-a-colas in zombies has been thrown around a few times, but no one has come up with a good enough idea for something like that that wouldn't be overpowered. Things like buying the perk twice, a "Perk Pack-a-Punch", etc. Well, here's my idea of how such a system could work.

Pro perks are not something that should be bought, but something that the player needs to earn. Here's what happens: a player buys the perk from the machine like usual. Then, they have to complete a certain challenge. Challenges will vary from perk to perk (for example, Juggernog's might be kill 150 zombies or something of the sort). As the player attempts this challenge, a blue circle will start to form around the perk icon, showing their progress. When the challenge is complete, the circle will be full and a blue aura will surround the perk, marking that it is now at pro status. Pro status will give the perk an extra effect (which, obviously, varies depending on the perk). The player will keep this pro perk until they go down. Then they will have to buy the perk again and do the challenge all over.

Pro Perks and their Effects

Quick Revive Pro (solo)

(having a different effect in solo than in multiplayer, the pro variant of Quick Revive will also have differing effects)

How to earn - Kill 150 Zombies

Effect - When downed, a nuke powerup is automatically earned, you are picked up much faster, and zombies do not respawn for 20-30 seconds

The effect of this pro variant is to give players time to collect their bearings after getting up, because I cannot tell you how many times in solo I've gone down, gotten up, and then gone right back down again before I can move six feet.

Quick Revive Pro (co-op)

How to earn - Revive 5 Teammates

Effect - When downed, you will get Mustang and Sally even if you don't have it (unless you have a pistol wonder weapon) and any teammate can revive you at Quick Revive speed even if they don't have the perk themselves

Hopefully this effect will attract the more selfish players who turn up their noses at this perk because it doesn't help them at all

Juggernog Pro

How to earn - Kill 150 Zombies

Effect - Removes flinch when hit and recover from red-screen faster

You don't want to make the pro variant for this perk too powerful (nor do you need to, as people will always buy it anyways)

Speed Cola Pro

How to earn - Reload 50 Times

Effect - Switch weapons faster and prime grenades faster

This will be especially useful for players who use monkey bombs and Gersch devices, as they take a long time to prime

Double Tap Root Beer Pro

How to earn - Kill 200 Zombies

Effect - Extended mags on all weapons (excluding all Wonder Weapons besides Ray Gun)

Double Tap empty your clip too fast? Solution: extended mags. Something useful that might make players rethink this underrated perk

PhD Flopper Pro

How to earn - Kill 75 Zombies with Explosives (includes "flop attack")

Effect - Immune to Nova crawler explosions, napalm zombie explosions, and traps, and makes the "flop attack" more powerful (like slightly less powerful Scavenger explosion)

Like Juggernog, it's hard to come up with a pro variant that wouldn't make this perk grossly overpowered, but this effect might do nicely

Staminup Pro

How to earn - Run 2 Miles (easily done with a crawler, but whatever)

Effect - Unlimited sprint and weapons are ready faster after sprinting

Easy challenge, I know, but it's for a fairly mediocre effect

Deadshot Daiquiri Pro

How to earn - Kill 100 Zombies with Headshots

Effect - Even more hipfire accuracy, longer range, more damage multipliers to the head

This is a hard perk to overpower. Even with these effects, it will probably still be rarely bought

Mule Kick Pro

How to earn - Kill 100 Zombies

Effect - Any weapon lost as a result of going down with Mule Kick will be regained upon rebuying Mule Kick

This is an effect I came up with after many painful experiences of losing a great weapon by going down with Mule Kick. This effect just seems to make sense

Anyways, those are my ideas. Thanks for bothering to read, and I'm very open to constructive criticism or alternative ideas. :D

[Ehjookayted]

This is something that is actually extremely plausible and would make many happy. I like the way you think. I noticed you have zero brains. Let me be the first to give you some for this well thought out and well formatted work.

I'll come back when the timer runs out, but great job man. I agree with these almost 100%. 8-)

[TheDunbarian]

BRAINS! [brains] Thanks man, I appreciate it. As someone yearning for a career in the game design field, it feels great when someone compliments my ideas! :D

[ZombieOfTheDead]

These are great ideas. Seriously, I might actually buy double tap, because it will finally have a use again!

[TuUhmazyn]

I like these a lot actually, I think I'll link these to my Manufactorum idea. Credit given of course.

[K1llsteelr]

I dont mean to be harsh in my post and it is good to debate these things

Quick Revive Pro (solo)

(having a different effect in solo than in multiplayer, the pro variant of Quick Revive will also have differing effects)

How to earn - Kill 150 Zombies

Effect - When downed, a nuke powerup is automatically earned, you are picked up much faster, and zombies do not respawn for 20-30 seconds

The effect of this pro variant is to give players time to collect their bearings after getting up, because I cannot tell you how many times in solo I've gone down, gotten up, and then gone right back down again before I can move six feet.

QR solo was a nice addition to help progress the map but in doing this it also reduced the playtime

Waw was a lot harder to learn the map on solo in the higher rounds and took a lot longer to master

You can have a care free attitude with black ops solo which is good testing things out but decreases the playtime and difficulty

The fact is the same with most zombie problems you have to resist human nature

Do not kill any zombies when you are knocked down it will be your downfall

They will collect away from you giving you a chance to get some distance to get jug without 28 spawning at once in front and behind you

The M&S i think is intentionally given to you to ruin your day unless the round is nearly over dont fire at them

Unless zombies have stopped spawning nuking them all would be worse than doing nothing and you will have not much chance of suviving in most situations

Covering a path with claymores to jug and staying off that area until you need it is a good move

Add this with not shooting any zombies when your down is the key to getting back in the game

Juggernog Pro

How to earn - Kill 150 Zombies

Effect - Removes flinch when hit and recover from red-screen faster

You don't want to make the pro variant for this perk too powerful (nor do you need to, as people will always buy it anyways)

If you up the jug you need to balance the game and keep it challenging

Being you can only get so many zombies on the map and the health/wave scheme is pretty good i dont know what else your do with limited resources to balance giving a player hardened pro

The other problem is most of the time when kiting in higher rounds, hits register but dont display being in that situation with 2+ zombies is going to help you

You are going down hardened pro or not

Speed Cola Pro

How to earn - Reload 50 Times

Effect - Switch weapons faster and prime grenades faster

This will be especially useful for players who use monkey bombs and Gersch devices, as they take a long time to prime

This i like idea of weapons but deploys as once again it would make it too easy

Only problem i have with weapons is i believe mule kick slot is a perk like the bowie and you get lag when changing so i would rather this was fixed although i dont think it can be (i think they added it not just because of demand but also to patch a glitch where you could put a 3rd gun in your bowie slot)

Double Tap Root Beer Pro

How to earn - Kill 200 Zombies

Effect - Extended mags on all weapons (excluding all Wonder Weapons besides Ray Gun)

Double Tap empty your clip too fast? Solution: extended mags. Something useful that might make players rethink this underrated perk

Another nice idea but once again it effects balance and you need a counter

I might be wrong but if you look weapon stats there tuned quite carefully with different fields not just damage

Wouldnt adding extended mags to all guns drop a field of tuning

PhD Flopper Pro

How to earn - Kill 75 Zombies with Explosives (includes "flop attack")

Effect - Immune to Nova crawler explosions, napalm zombie explosions, and traps, and makes the "flop attack" more powerful (like slightly less powerful Scavenger explosion)

Like Juggernog, it's hard to come up with a pro variant that wouldn't make this perk grossly overpowered, but this effect might do nicely

I dont understand the problem with creepers they have 75% health you can kill them without them exploding and they kill the other zombies you might as well just get rid if your going to nerf them

I believe there in the map for gameplay reasons

Ie to keep you out of areas you could dominate easily

They would spawn everywhere on the map otherwise

Also george as a boss is easy killed with flopper on solo what do you do to counter things like this ?

Put georges health up x2 ?

But then the guns would go out of sync

So it the same question how do you balance ?

Staminup Pro

How to earn - Run 2 Miles (easily done with a crawler, but whatever)

Effect - Unlimited sprint and weapons are ready faster after sprinting

Easy challenge, I know, but it's for a fairly mediocre effect

Again balance you obviously underate this perk its can be just as useful picking up teammates as QR

Deadshot Daiquiri Pro

How to earn - Kill 100 Zombies with Headshots

Effect - Even more hipfire accuracy, longer range, more damage multipliers to the head

This is a hard perk to overpower. Even with these effects, it will probably still be rarely bought

I will be honest now and try not to be bias

Personally i do not like this perk

It does not work well with all weapons or individual playstyles

Im not saying its not usefull sometimes for some players but i find it a handicap and can be difficult depending on what weapons you are using

It also changes your direction when running and going into ADS that is my no1 hate

I wouldnt mind if it was taken off the list of perks from george and you could hack it back even at a cost after you do the EE on moon

Ie you are not forced to have it on any map

Players shouldnt really need it and if they do they are more than likely not use it as other perks are more important

For me doing the damage and making good points is the skill of the game and i dont think this perk fits with that

Mule Kick Pro

How to earn - Kill 100 Zombies

Effect - Any weapon lost as a result of going down with Mule Kick will be regained upon rebuying Mule Kick

This is an effect I came up with after many painful experiences of losing a great weapon by going down with Mule Kick. This effect just seems to make sense

Once again balance nobody likes losing there gun but it really isnt a big problem

You shouldnt have your most important gun like WW RG in the third slot

I understand about having 3 upgraded weapons but most of the time at the stage when 3 guns is benefical to your gameplay your end up trading it in and getting it back or something the same grade or you get to the point where you need a wallgun you can buy ammo for that you can easy replace for 5950 points

[selectyeti89]

I like those ideas but jugg, staminup, and flopper are WAY overpowered. If I could have constant sprint I wouldnt die half the times I do now. And not getting slowed down when hit with jugg is even better! Flopper is just very overpowered though. You could get to 50 without shooting anything probably. Good ideas thougf but those thrree would make it to easy.

[rararashanzomb]

The idea of Pro Perks is somewhat stimulating, and would bring a new angle/addition to the game.

If Pro Perks were to be implemented, strong consideration of the effects of upgrading to 'Pro' and challenges/objectives to upgrade is necessary; as it could potentially destroy core of the game i.e. the simplistic nature of Perks is what makes them not too OP, but, when bought, do help the player(s) out.

Love, love, love the idea of 'Quick Revive Pro' in multiplayer, as the downed player (who may have revived other players, in total, 20 times) is rewarded for their consideration and 'team' effort. Fucking love it. Perhaps could even get an extra "Self-Revive" at like 20 revives or something.

- One problem that Treyarch should counter-argue is that it would be hard to discourage or ensure players that they do not purposely go down to get the 'Pro' perk, so perhaps other objectives could be considered.

All other Perks and objectives would, obviously, need to be discussed and tailored to a "potentially-destroying-core-free" criteria which Treyarch would do.

Oh yeah, and finally: 150 kills isn't hard, but good starting point.

Great ideas bro, well played.

[right_direct]

for quick revive it would be better if u could use equipment,by able to open doors rebuild bariers,turn on traps and it should be way more than 5 revives to get it!i say like 30 or something that is too easy 5 revives!

for flooper;get 100 flooper kills (each 100=one nuke)and colect your own nuke and use it when u need it most.like in DOA.

[jc18378]

I believe anything that just gives the game more gameplay layers would make it more fun. Having the ability to actually user perks along with your weapons would be nice.

[Undead]

I don't dislike the idea, but those challenges would be far too simple. I'm thinking more of round progress, rather than statistics, and those vary depending on the rounds you bought them, the price, importance, etc.

ex:

Quick Revive + = Keep perk for 10 successive rounds. / Revive 5 players

Double Tap + = Keep perk for 15 successive rounds / Fire 3,000 rounds.

Speed Cola + = Keep perk for 30 successive rounds / Reload 250 times.

Juggernog + = Keep perk for 25 successive rounds / Survive for 5 minutes without taking damage with Juggernog.

PHD Flopper + = Keep perk for 20 successive rounds / Nuke 50 zombies.

Stamin Up + = Keep perk for 15 successive rounds / Sprint 2 miles

Deadshot Daquiri + = Keep perk for 10 successive rounds / Headshot 50 zombies

Mule Kick + = Keep perk for 30 successive rounds / Kill 200 zombies with your third slot weapon.

[TheDunbarian]

I'm loving the feedback guys. I realize not all of my ideas of the challenges/pro variant effects are perfect, and to be honest some were more thought out than others. My main point was to get across the idea of how a pro perk system would work, and some ideas for effects.

I realize some of the challenges might be easy, but we do have to remember: if the player goes down, they have to rebuy the perk and complete the challenge again to regain the pro variant. The Quick Revive challenge, for example: I realize 5 revives might not be many, but really that depends on what kind of team you're playing with (how good they are). Maybe bump it up to 10 revives. But 20 revives is too much. That would mean your teammates would have to go down 20 times before you do. Keep that in mind, along with the fact that Quick Revive Pro's effect can only be used once per time it's earned.

I'll admit, Quick Revive's effect in solo is questionable. 20 seconds of a zombie-free map was the best effect I could think of. Anyone have a better idea? I'd gladly accept.

K1llsteelr managed to find holes in most of my pro variants (all of them, actually ). I realize they're not perfect. I did the best I could without making them OP. I liked your constructive criticism though, it really didn't sound harsh and it provokes me to think more about the effects, particularly the balance of the game (didn't even think about Flopper Pro against George...)

So Quick Revive, PhD Flopper, and Staminup are the ones that I'm mostly seeing that you guys find OP. Maybe Staminup could give you extended running time, rather than unlimited? It is a great perk to begin with, it shouldn't need too much of a pro variant.

[Undead]

I'm loving the feedback guys. I realize not all of my ideas of the challenges/pro variant effects are perfect, and to be honest some were more thought out than others. My main point was to get across the idea of how a pro perk system would work, and some ideas for effects.

I realize some of the challenges might be easy, but we do have to remember: if the player goes down, they have to rebuy the perk and complete the challenge again to regain the pro variant. The Quick Revive challenge, for example: I realize 5 revives might not be many, but really that depends on what kind of team you're playing with (how good they are). Maybe bump it up to 10 revives. But 20 revives is too much. That would mean your teammates would have to go down 20 times before you do. Keep that in mind, along with the fact that Quick Revive Pro's effect can only be used once per time it's earned.

Well, an idea is an idea. Both positive and negative feedback along with personal ideas are expected. Anyway, obviously if you go down and lose the perk, the requirements for get the pro variant would also be reset; that's a given. I think Quick Revive should just have even faster reviving ability, a nuke sounds a bit overkill IMO. (literally, lol)

I'll admit, Quick Revive's effect in solo is questionable. 20 seconds of a zombie-free map was the best effect I could think of. Anyone have a better idea? I'd gladly accept.

I'm thinking 2 extra lives instead of one would be a good substitute for that. Where as, if you buy Quick Revive and live for a successive 15ish rounds without going down, a quick notification would appear, the icon would appear with the pro perk star around it, and you wouldn't lose it until you go down the second time.

Or, you would automatically revive with a 30 second death machine to ensure your recovery and buy more time for yourself.

[TheDunbarian]

I think Quick Revive should just have even faster reviving ability, a nuke sounds a bit overkill IMO. (literally, lol)

The nuke would only be in solo mode. Quick Revive Pro has a different effect in co-op, much like the regular perk.

I'm thinking 2 extra lives instead of one would be a good substitute for that. Where as, if you buy Quick Revive and live for a successive 15ish rounds without going down, a quick notification would appear, the icon would appear with the pro perk star around it, and you wouldn't lose it until you go down the second time.

Or, you would automatically revive with a 30 second death machine to ensure your recovery and buy more time for yourself.

I do like both of those ideas actually. In fact, they're kinda better than the one I had. Well, the lives anyway. The death machine is questionable because it IS weak at higher rounds and will simply rob you of your ability to run away. Also, you can't buy perks with a death machine, which is usually what people want to do after being revived. I like the extra life after 15 rounds though.

[Undead]

The death machine is pretty powerful during any round, high or low. And especially if you're riding solo, it buys your a lot more time than just lying down with mustang and sally. It could even help you make it though the round depending how far and late it is in the round that you when down.

[killallzombies]

i love these ideas,too bad i already gave you a brain today on an earlier post

when i spread my [brains] a little more,i'll come back

[K1llsteelr]

I like the idea to add something extra to work for and posting ideas in forums is a good source of information for devs to build on

The last thing i want to do is put suppression on ideas

Here some ideas for you to cut to pieces

Pro perks

You have to goto the perk and hack it before it is purchased it will cost if you have it you just lose it and it will still cost

You cannot buy the perk if you want pro so your have to tough it out

Backstep your progress if zombie damage or weapon splashback occurs

Ie you get hit=you need 2 extra headshots or whatever to complete your challenge

Whatever challenge you need to do you must complete it within a time limit otherwise you have restart and pay again

Limit the number of pro perks you can buy if you buy the most useful perks first

Ie Jug PhD (QR on solo)

If were talking the next zombie game

Drop all weapon attachments including sights (even the snipers) you have to earn the right as a team to open an area where you can buy attachments with points and task like perk pro above

I think one problem with zombies is its hit its resource limit so finding ideas to expand the game without disturbing the core of zombies is difficult

You cant change the endless wave format

The number of zombies on the map at the same time is capped

You could step the health but that would be debatable if that was messing with the core of zombies and wouldnt have that bigger effect

Theres not much you can do with spawn delay that already hasnt been done

The addition of marathon pro has allowed the zombie speed to be increased i think this has also reached its limit

Player base is polarized of what they want from zombies

Finding the balance of difficulty for players is also a impossible task

How do you keep the game progressive for hardcore players that drive the game without alienating new or casual players ?

I also believe player numbers on individual map playlists is a factor

You get more players playing kino on xbox live than all the other maps put together

With dlc being combined with MP it makes it harder to tell why this is

Black ops stepped up with zombies but i dont believe the community as a whole has moved with it and the gap between player skills has grown along with the total number of zombie players

The later maps are more complicated and require communication and teamwork which is great but that doesnt seem to work with the majority of players

Even if you have own a headset, and can use it to answer basic questions, the chances of you getting into a decent match with a low leaderboard score is slim

For me the last 2 EE had a positive effect of splitting the gametypes where you could progress and get semi god mode or just play core zombies only problem with this is weapons,perks,zombie values are shared

I know this seems way OT of pro perks but i ask the questions ?

With resources brickwalled how can the game keep progressing when the majority of players are not moving in that direction ?

How much resposibilty lies with game companys and platform networks to solve non hardware related matchmaking issues?

Why are some of the most awesome maps that encourage players to use teamwork, communication and get players out of tunnel vision of sticking to one type of gameplay

Ie the skills you need to suvive, hardly being used?

[TheDunbarian]

Very good points, K1llsteelr. The World at War maps were so unique because each of them introduced a core game element that would be carried on for every map after that. Verruckt introduced perks, traps, and the power switch. Shi No Numa introduced power weapons (with the Wunderwaffe) and special rounds (with the hellhounds). Der Riese introduced Pack-a-Punch and tactical grenades. Each of these were things that didn't destroy the core of the game, but expanded on it in a way that would allow the player to go further without making the game too easy.

However, we haven't seen anything revolutionary in Zombies since Der Riese. The closest we've come is when Ascension introduced epic easter eggs, where the players have to complete several steps to obtain a reward. While these easter eggs can drastically change the game of a team of hardcore players, your casual or solo players are still left without anything new.

Also, as for your idea of how the pro perks would work, that honestly seems really hard for what you'd get out of it. Plus, there's the issue that you would need the hacker. The hacker probably won't appear in any map after Moon (I can't really see it working anywhere else) and plus, I want the pro perks to be available on the older maps too.