Getting revived: rush for Jugg or Flopper?

[Superhands]

Tom and myself had a discussion about this on a game of COTD this week; it was actually Tom suggested it'd make a good discussion topic but I see it hasn't been created yet so I figured I'd make it to get some discussion going.

When people get revived, often the first thing they do is rush for Juggernog. On the newer maps with PhD Flopper, on many occasions these people will have a Mustang & Sally in hand as a path clearer. But of course, if they've gone down they will no longer have PhD Flopper so they can't clear a path on the way to Juggs if need be.

If they bought PhD first, it's not out of the question to run around without Juggernog until it's safe to go and get it, or they could make a rush for it safe in the knowledge that they could clear a path if needed.

On the other hand, if you get a double slap you'll go down again and will just have wasted 2k points for nothing.

We are of course here ignoring the fact that one perk may be in easier reach; let's just assume both perks are of equidistant reach

What do you think is the wisest perk to rush for first?

I personally think it depends on your ability to survive without Juggernog, so with that said it'll be interesting to see people's reasoning for their choice of perk to get back first.

[Chopper]

Flopper each and every single time on COTD.

I have downed myself (although this was before I'd played NML) a few times on COTD with Juggs but no flopper.

If you are at the lighthouse it's as easy to get to......but tbh honest on COTD unless shit really goes wrong either way you go should be a safe path with a good teammate.

Tom will be upset that this isn't in strategy ;)

[Superhands]

Tom will be upset that this isn't in strategy

Na it's in the Gameplay & Strategies section so all is good

But yeah, I think with COTD it depends where the other players are. In some situations it can be impossible to get to Juggs without running into some sort of trouble.

[selectyeti89]

hhhmmm, good question. I normally just buy whatever perks are on the way to jugg(if they are the ones I want) and have my teammate hold the max spawn.

[Tom852]

I often have ideas for threads or for videos in the middle of a game. But when the game is finished, I'll have so much forgot what I wanted to do. Always All I can remember is 'there was something I wanted to do'. On the other hand I could still give a very detailed abstract about those freaky voice chat session. Oh my god dude, weirdest chat ever. How should I remember PHD/JUG/CODZ, all I remember is Sandra/Stripper/...

So what was the question again.

===

First of all, I think it does not matter too much, which perk you get. With PHD/M&S, you can blow anything away. With Jug, you can do risky maneuvers, and still give 1-2 shots with your M&s to make some crawlers or something. For me personally, PHD is to prefer cause I tend to kill myself otherwise. But also Jug is to prefer cause I tend to run paths where double hits are for sure. In both cases, there is a risk I bought the perk for nothing and will die again.

Well this is of course very very dependent of the situation too. When you have a thunder or a wave gun, which can take the role of the M/S, you will of course head for jug. When the map design does not allow you to get a certain perk, for example because it is way too far away, or even if a tele is needed first, you will get the other one.

If we are still not able to decide: Most important is the design of the perk locations. A perk like PHD @ Ascension is very easy to get. But the Jug @ Ascension can be a fatal trap for you. So on Ascension, I will most likely prefer to get PHD first.

On COTD, PHD is something you can pick up by a running by, it's close to some safe running areas. But Jug is behind long long narrow paths, water, the upper door is desired to stay closed... COTD is also a PHD first map for me.

[Superhands]

All I can remember is 'there was something I wanted to do'. On the other hand I could still give a very detailed abstract about those freaky voice chat session. Oh my god dude, weirdest chat ever. How should I remember PHD/JUG/CODZ, all I remember is Sandra/Stripper/...

Don't forget the conversations about the nice places and s***holes in different cities, or cats vs. dogs. Although I guess I'd remember those better as I was actually involved in them, I was chatting with my sis while Rob and yourself chatted about Sandra and driving in certain types of weather

But back on topic... I'd definitely say for me personally it depends on the map and situation. I'm good at surviving without Juggs, but sometimes it's just impossible to avoid a double slap and I'd like to have it asap. Though, I have sometimes found it more beneficial to run around without Juggs for a little rather than rush for it when it's not really safe, leads to much less downs ;)

[piepwns]

If I get flopper, in order to get back over to jug I will have to waste a lot of my M&S shots. I normally try to survive to the end of the round and run for neither.

[Tankeo Dempsaki]

I don't use M&S (hmmm...) much, so I make a mad dash for Jug.

Reach for me, Jugger-girl, release the flies...

Doesn't work does it? :lol:

[Silentcrisis]

I pretty much always get M&S every game, however when I do get downed I always buy Jugg First. After I've rebought it I rarely have problems getting my other perks back.

[perfectlemonade]

You can still use M&S defensively with Jug but no Flopper, you just have to be smart about it. So, for most of the time, I'd choose Jug. The only map I wouldn't do this on is Moon (duh). In fact, I always get M&S and Flopper before Jug on Moon.

I think this is a more thought provoking question: If the randomly spawning perks in No Man's Land were Jug and Flopper, which one would you choose on a world record run? I've thought about this one a lot. The logical choice, at first, seems to be Jug, but just think about it for a while. Having Flopper would be one less that to worry about (splash damage) and flopping off the stairs would really help with getting up more points and would essentially give you unlimited grenades.

Food for thought.

[Tom852]

You can still use M&S defensively with Jug but no Flopper, you just have to be smart about it. So, for most of the time, I'd choose Jug. The only map I wouldn't do this on is Moon (duh). In fact, I always get M&S and Flopper before Jug on Moon.

I think this is a more thought provoking question: If the randomly spawning perks in No Man's Land were Jug and Flopper, which one would you choose on a world record run? I've thought about this one a lot. The logical choice, at first, seems to be Jug, but just think about it for a while. Having Flopper would be one less that to worry about (splash damage) and flopping off the stairs would really help with getting up more points and would essentially give you unlimited grenades.

Food for thought.

[brains] for this epic question. I think the choice between PHD and Jug at NML would affect strategies a lot. A PHD strategy would look completely different than the current jug strategies. But since all people gather a train and then shoot 2-3 times, I think the better choice would be jug. The gathering up of the train seems the major work, the 2-3-4 shots can also afford a lil 2second break to regenerate health. PHD would only help you to safe your life, but would also be a waste of ammo, therefore not leading to record.

I don't use M&S (hmmm...) much, so I make a mad dash for Jug.

Reach for me, Jugger-girl, release the flies...

Doesn't work does it?

Sure this works. The question is just what would you do, when you have the Mustang and Sally. The M/S is a good choice, since it works as a life saver. But imagine you get into a corner or surrounded by zombies. You need Jug on one hand, because zombies all around you will hit you more than twice in a very short amount of time - not to mention double swipes and stuff. But you also need PHD, so you can shoot on the ground so clear the situation.

But when you can have only one thing, what would it be? With PHD, you can shoot around with the Mustang like an idiot, an clear any situation, but a single double hit was it for you. 1 zombie incoming while you are reloading, you are dead. With jug on the other hand, you can afford these situations, however, imagine a narrow path, blocked by zombies, a train behind you... You are dead, you cannot clear the situation cuase of the friendly fire, and there is no escape. Or you get cornered, no option to shoot on the ground, cause no phd.

[Tankeo Dempsaki]

That was pretty cool, but I just meant "the reach for me" part, I meant my catchphrase didn't work in place of Dempsey's. :lol:

[Chopper]

I think in theory that flopper would lead to a higher kills total.

A spawn can be collected in around 25 seconds, but once past 6 minutes are beginning to take 4 shots and up to clear a group.

On top of this it starts to become very difficult to kill 20 each and everytime.

Flopper would negate this and enable an entire group killed in a much shorter period past the 6 min mark.

I also think it would lead to a lot more 300 kill games on the pad.....do you agree Super?

[MegaAfroMan]

Flopping off of the stairs in NML would be difficult (you cannot go prone in water ) so it might be tough to get the hang of and implement properly. However I think it could essentially present and offensive strategy, with Jug then being more defensive, with only flopper sure you can clear hordes easier, but you can also be double hit so much quicker in the back pond or the side drop.

[Superhands]

I think in theory that flopper would lead to a higher kills total.

A spawn can be collected in around 25 seconds, but once past 6 minutes are beginning to take 4 shots and up to clear a group.

On top of this it starts to become very difficult to kill 20 each and everytime.

Flopper would negate this and enable an entire group killed in a much shorter period past the 6 min mark.

I also think it would lead to a lot more 300 kill games on the pad.....do you agree Super?

This I definitely agree with. You lose a few spawns by not being able to shoot more than twice at a time to get more respawners in quicker. It'd take about 6 seconds to take out a horde with 6 shots without Flopper, but with it you could fire off those 6 shots in less than a second.

[Tom852]

Hands you could actually get 2500, noclip a bit around, buy phd, restore correct ammo count, tele back down and start a fresh run with flopper from round 1 @ nml and see how it goes. of course not 100% exact cause you would in some way already start with flopper, and not getting it after pap and so on. but it would give some kind of impression how it works.

[Superhands]

Yeah it'd be cool if there was a way to get Flopper from the get-go, problem is though that by the time you've no-clipped, got the power on, bought it and gone back, you're gonna lose a bunch of spawns anyways so it'd defeat the point I guess.

[perfectlemonade]

Flopping off of the stairs in NML would be difficult (you cannot go prone in water ) so it might be tough to get the hang of and implement properly.

I realized this the very second I pressed enter :lol:

[xFaTaLx RaMpAgE]

I get whichever is closer; if jugg is right next to me and flopper is across the map, then I'll obviously choose jugg first. If they are about the same distance away I would go for whichever is more accessible. This topic in my mind is all circumstantial.

[Superhands]

This topic in my mind is all circumstantial.

Yeah this is why I said in the OP, that hypothetically both perks are about the same distance from each other, basically just to see which perk players would rather do without for a bit if they have the M&S.

[anguscr]

If I had M&S or a Ray Gun or other self-damaging weapon, I'd probably go for Flopper, because then, I could clear anything in my way when I go and get Jug. But if I had a Thundergun or Wave Gun, then I'd probably go get Jug and then get Flopper when I leave a crawler so I could recuperate.

[aegisknight]

COTD and Moon I get flopper first, everywhere else jug. Its just a pain to get to on those maps. I have been double-slapped enough times to just hate playing without jug.

[DaPikmin]

I go for Jugg first no matter what map it is. For some reason after I go down once, even if I didn't have Jugg when I went down the first time, if I don't have Jugg when I get up, I'll go down again.

Especially COTD.