Richtofen discussion thread?

[thasqueakyb]

I've recently listened to all the film reels/radios in the map moon, and as far as I can tell, Richtofen was completely normal before teleporting to the moon and touching the pyramid. This confuses me, because I remember vaguely from the ingame bio of Richtofen that he had always been a violent murderous killing machine and an vicious doctor. I mean if you heard Nolan North's portrayal of a pre-teleportation Richtofen, he sounds like any other sane German scientist. In fact, in an argument between him and Maxis, he says he purely wants to better the human condition thus futhering the human race.

I also have a question, when he's still working with Maxis's teleportation machine, why is he so surprised when it works? He already managed to teleport not only a walnut but himself, to the friggen' moon. I've put two and two together, and to my knowledge correctly, and he was working on creating a moon base while he played stupid with Maxis and helped him work on weapons for Nazi's. I'm just confused is all. Or did I just answer my own question and he was just playing stupid.

And I'm working on a theory that each song on every map is about a character, whether in their point of view or about them. I'm pretty sure 115 is about Richtofen, in his point of view too. I could delve into each lin and tell you why I think this, but I'm sure I made an ass of myself already and I don't want to go any further.

[Tac]

MANY times the older things that Treyarch has released, such as intel and the bio's, will contradict what we have already come to believe. For example, in one intel, they say that they can't get the characters out of Shi No Numa because the war is still going on, yet we know that that map couldn't have happened until after October 1, 1945, after the war was already finished. While it is confusing, I agree in that he was completely sane until he touched the pyramid, and then the voices crawled into his mind, planting seeds of conspiracy and manipulation.

Haha you answered your own question. I believe that he was playing stupid so that Maxis would not catch on that he had already made a teleporter. However, Maxis is the only one with access to the Data Servant where he makes entries regarding new finds. In it, he states that there is 115 on the Moon, confirmed via an astronomical team. Now how would he know that without knowing that there was a teleporter to the Moon? That also confuses me.

You did not make an ass of yourself! We actually need more members like this, you seem to have a good grasp of the story, you speak logically, and you have good grammar, I cannot wait to see you around more!

[ZombieOfTheDead]

I think he was sane before the Pyramid, but still a sadist. The bios I actually do think are reliable. Richtofen even quotes about being a sadist before the war at some points.

I guess the pyramid just gave him schizophrenia, the high pitched voice (which he hid in the Der Riese radios), and maybe some other distinct features.

Like tac said, he was probably playing dumb at some points with Maxis. I imagine he might have actually purposefully sabotaged the teleporter to slow what Maxis discovered.

Finally, 115 is probably closer to Samantha's point of view than Richtofen's. Just saying. You could still work on the theory, though. It could actually pertain to him as well.

[thasqueakyb]

Oh, well in that case, thank you, hah. Other than that I have no real knowledge of anything else in Richtofen's history, though I have written fanfictions and read some where he had always had some metaphorical walls in his mind that stopped him from being a completely normal human being, some went so far as to suggest he was jealous of the attention Maxis gave Samantha and that's how he grew to hate her, something about daddy issues because he viewed Maxis as a father figure.

Do you know what the purpose is, or what happened at Shangri La? Or where I can find truthful information, heh? I remember in one of the audio thingamagigs that the pyramid teleported him to a jungle area and he was attacked by a tribe. To be honest I'm missing huge portions of the plot and it bothers me that I am. I consider myself to be a huge zombies storyline fan but I can't prove it. Arghh. xD

I think 115 could be Samantha, but I always took it as Richtofen. Like the line "I know I won't die alone" could be taken as Richtofen pointing out that if he is unsuccessful in his attempt to take control of the zombies, that his comrades would die along with him. And 'I have returned" like he's come back to the scene, or rather scenes if you think about all the other maps, of the crime. "Everyone dies, and everyone lies", once again bringing up his wild paranoid conspiracy theories and how everybody was against him and everybody who got in his way whether accidentally or not was subsequently killed because of it. "They're waiting for the second coming again" = Richtofen giving the voices a role in his desire to control the zombies and have ultimate power over them. And of course, the line "Bring me 115" is his all around desire for 115 since it plays such a giant role in the entire zombie plot.

[Tac]

I am growing to love you more and more every time you post, you post so darn logically! In terms of Shangri-La, there is much speculation and such, but we know for fact that there is an ancient civilization known as Vril-ya to be involved.

They supposedly resided there, or it was at least an entrance to their home, the inside of the Earth. That is the Hollow Earth theory, which was apparently lit and powered by an orb known as the Black Sun that emitted VRIL Energy. Black Sun, Schwarze Sonne in German, is written on the Der Riese chalkboard. The Black Sun logo is also in the Shangri-La loading screen, it is in the grass at the bottom in the weird shape.

But Richtofen teleported to Shangri-La after touching the pyramid on the Moon. In my eyes, they viewed him as a god and thus gave him a shrine, not attacked him. The Vril-ya had some humans there doing the dirty work, building structures and such, but when Ed arrived he got them mining 115 and then Maxis made the 31-79 JGb 215 to shrink the 115 for transport back to Der Riese.

[Black Wolf]

As I've said all over the forums, this is what we call a retcon. I really think that is the only explanation to the changes in the storyline. It happens when stories are not planned through from the start or when things become more successful than the creators anticipated. Anyway...

I also have a question, when he's still working with Maxis's teleportation machine, why is he so surprised when it works? He already managed to teleport not only a walnut but himself, to the friggen' moon. I've put two and two together, and to my knowledge correctly, and he was working on creating a moon base while he played stupid with Maxis and helped him work on weapons for Nazi's. I'm just confused is all. Or did I just answer my own question and he was just playing stupid.

While I certainly think he was playing dumb, I think you could also go with the idea that he actually was surprised... surprised that Dr. Maxis' prototype worked. Richtofen and Groph had managed to get a teleporter to work, but judging by the Der Riese radios, the teleporter Maxis and Richtofen were using was not working so well. It might be worth noting that Maxis supposedly stole Richtofen's plans and/or designs for the teleporter. Richtofen may have been surprised to discover that the teleporter he was working with was actually his teleporter.

I find Shangri-la to be very confusing. If I remember correctly, there are some quotes which were cut from the game that indicate there was a statue of Richtofen at Shangri-la at some point in development. While not strictly canon, it certainly lends favor to the idea that Richtofen was heralded as some sort of god, or demi-god even.

Where Shangri-la starts to confuse me is when Richtofen says that he was unaware Maxis was successful in creating the 31-79 JGb215. This potentially suggests that Maxis was at Shangri-la without Richtofen, which brings up several issues, really. For instance, why would Richtofen go to Shangri-la for the Focusing Stone when the 31-79 JGb215 is necessary to obtain the Focusing Stone... if he had no idea it existed or was there? Blind hope? I probably just need to play Shangri-la more.

And I'm working on a theory that each song on every map is about a character, whether in their point of view or about them. I'm pretty sure 115 is about Richtofen, in his point of view too. I could delve into each lin and tell you why I think this, but I'm sure I made an ass of myself already and I don't want to go any further.

I'd actually really like to read this, so PM it to me if you don't to post it. Personally, I see a lot of things about Richtofen in some of the songs and am often disappointed that most people attribute them all to Samantha without even considering alternate perspectives.

Other than that I have no real knowledge of anything else in Richtofen's history, though I have written fanfictions and read some where he had always had some metaphorical walls in his mind that stopped him from being a completely normal human being, some went so far as to suggest he was jealous of the attention Maxis gave Samantha and that's how he grew to hate her, something about daddy issues because he viewed Maxis as a father figure.

We know from Shangri-la (possibly Ascension? I forget as I don't have that one) that Richtofen does have some issues from his childhood. He compares the Shrieker zombie to his mother and makes a couple other references to her as well. He generally seems to have had an unpleasant childhood from his quotes, which could have made him predisposed to falling prey to whatever was in the Pyramid. Furthermore, although this opinion is likely to get me flogged and cast out around here, I do believe that he and Maxis were close on some level at some point, although I wouldn't necessarily say it was daddy issues, but oh well. Ahem, feel free to PM me fanfiction too. Love that stuff. I regret nothing. :)

[Alter72]

I think he has severe mood swings caused by his personality, NOT the pyramid.

[ZombieOfTheDead]

I think he has severe mood swings caused by his personality, NOT the pyramid.

More than likely it's a combo. He seems to have gotten the voices from the pyramid. Now, schizophrenia CAN lead to huge mood swings at times.

Of course, he was crazy before hand, but we really haven't a great grasp at what he was really like before that.

[MyLittleHellhound]

I think he has severe mood swings caused by his personality, NOT the pyramid.

More than likely it's a combo. He seems to have gotten the voices from the pyramid. Now, schizophrenia CAN lead to huge mood swings at times.

Of course, he was crazy before hand, but we really haven't a great grasp at what he was really like before that.

It's always possible that before, when doing science and the "things he loves" his voice is calm and he could go into an "auto pilot" or maybe just detaches himself from his emotions because god knows Science sometimes clashes with morals and ethics. Although I really don't see Richtofen having very many of those.....

[Tac]

Yeah, I mean it is clear that he was slightly sadistic before the war had started, but then he touched the pyramid and I think it amplified all the nasty things about him. They were all there on some sort of level, they just appeared more times and for longer durations after the touching of the pyramid. Of course, new things arose from touching the pyramid, like in my opinion, his wanting to kill Maxis. I think that the voices in his head wanted him to have power, just as Richtofen wanted a similar thing, and one way to do it was to kill Dr. Maxis and take his position as head of Group 935. But he broke the grasps of the voices, which I believe to be the Illuminati, and continued his quest for power on his own.