NML high-kill analysis - find out where you're going wrong

[Superhands]

Hey guys, so I've been doing a bit of analysis using my own experiences as well as YouTube videos, to work out how many kills you'd need to have by the time you get down to a certain amount of ammo in the earlier-mid stages of the game to get certain amounts of kills on No Man's Land and maybe to point out where you're going wrong in the pursuit of a higher score.

I've noticed a little pattern in my own games and in YouTube videos about your ammo:kill amounts in the earlier stages of the game, that shows you whether or not you're on target for the amount of kills you're aiming for.

The first stages

As a general rule, you'll want 90+ kills before the 3 minute mark i.e. by the time you've gotten Jugg without taking too long.

There is some debate as to whether conserving ammo at this stage is so important. My view... well, it's hard to say, you ust have to go with the situation. The general idea though, is the more kills you can get before the 3 minute mark, the better the chances you have of getting a better end result. Ideally, no more than 8 shots should be used, preferably 6 or less.

But 90 kills at 2:45 won't guarantee you to be in good stead - what you do between buying Jugg and having 6/6/30 ammo will obviously affect how well you rack up your kills. On average in high kill games, around 100 kills are racked up during this stage.

If you're going for the really high kills at 330+, you'll want 100+ kills using no more than 6 shots by Jugg at 2:45.

The following moments

For x amount kills, you'll want to have a certain amount of kills by the time your M&S ammo is down to 6/6/30. Then another certain amount of kills by the time you're down to 6/6/20 to check you're still on target; if you've wasted too much ammo or the spawns have been too slow after the previous target, this will most likely have cost you your kill target.

300+ kills = 190 kills by 6/6/30, 240 kills by 6/6/20
310+ kills = 195 kills by 6/6/30, 245 kills by 6/6/20
320+ kills = 200 kills by 6/6/30, 250 kills by 6/6/20
330+ kills = 205 kills by 6/6/30, 255 kills by 6/6/20
340+ kills = 210 kills by 6/6/30, 260 kills by 6/6/20
350+ kills = 215 kills by 6/6/30, 265 kills by 6/6/20
360+ kills = 220 kills by 6/6/30, 270 kills by 6/6/20

What affects whether or not I'm on target?

This of course is not an exact science, you can get better scores than suggested if the spawns are really fast or if your bullets are immensely well-placed, which for most players isn't the case so much... or the scoreline won't be as high as you expected, due to slow spawns or bad shooting. But for the majority of games, most high-kill players, myself included, will average 40-50 kills between their ammo being at 6/6/30 and 6/6/20. If you can't seem to average this at any time, this is most likely what's costing you that high kill game - you're either taking too long to take out your groups, time is ticking by and their health is rising so they'll need more shots to kill... or you're shooting a little off target, therefore needing more shots to take out each wave (about 4 shots is optimal for one full group). In other words, practicing this part of the game will help you become a better No Man's Land player, as these same little errors over and over again will greatly affect your score at the end of the game.

Final thoughts

Overall, this proves that it's the first half of the game that's the most important, and getting a good start as well as conserving ammo (killing your groups with as few shots as possible) is vital.

Of course, you don't want to be slacking towards the end of the game, or you'll find that target going out of the window quickly ;)

[Chopper]

Nice work Super, these figures are pretty similar to the ones I have. The only slight difference I take into account is time, especially where you are at the 5 minute mark when they start taking 3 shots to kill each group.

All the high games I studied the only one which is different was Steve's recent 354 when he was at around 180 kills for 5 minutes. But the spawns he had after that point were amazing which helped him catch up before the 8 minute mark or so when they are 6 or more.

[Superhands]

Yeah I was just having a little look at that game again. Now, at 6/6/30, he had 220 kills or so, which put him in good stead for 360+ kills :shock: but then by the time he'd reach 6/6/20 ammo, a few bad shots and he'd gotten 258 kills, only 38 on top of his total of 220 at 6/6/30 ammo, which put him back in stead for 340+ kills; he got 348 and slashed his way to 354. If things had went normally and he'd gotten that 50 kill average during this stage rather than 38, he would have been looking at a staggering 365+ kills. Still, 354 kills, that's something few will ever accomplish ;)

[shirtlesservice]

Thank you superhands, I've been wanting to break 300 for a while, and these standards will help sooo.... Thanks! :D

[Superhands]

No worries mate, always remember, killing groups of about 5 at a time when going for Jugg tends to net more kills than gathering full groups from what I've tested ;)

[Tom852]

Can I see of a video someone doing 90+ @ 2:30 to 2:45, when he has Jug.

I did about 20 runs today, and in 20 runs I had between 80 and 85. Not more, not less. Although I tried to vary a lot, especially the part with the M&S, when you get your points for Jug.

Otherwise, I think this seems a very good way to orient yourself!

[Zkreym]

Wait... so today I had about 205 kills with 6/6/30 ammo left, I could have gotten 330+ kills?!? :o

[Superhands]

Can I see of a video someone doing 90+ @ 2:30 to 2:45, when he has Jug.

I did about 20 runs today, and in 20 runs I had between 80 and 85. Not more, not less. Although I tried to vary a lot, especially the part with the M&S, when you get your points for Jug.

Otherwise, I think this seems a very good way to orient yourself!

I've found that the best thing to do after the PaP is ignore the points, just keep running round killing small groups with 1 shot. Once you have 90 kills go buy Jugg, which even with a 40 kill PaP still normally happens at about 2:30 with about 6 shots used. I wanna do some testing, to see if using a little more time and a couple of shots more to get 100 plus kills and a 2:45 Jugg is helpful towards the 6/6/30 kill amount.

Yeah Dougie, that's an excellent start you had there. Of course as I said, things can go wrong to ruin it, slow spawns, too many shots used between 42 shots left and 32 or taking too long to kill your spawn so their health rises with each siren.

This is why we have our secondary target at 32 shots left (6/6/20), to check that we're still on track since the last target ;)

[Chopper]

I've found that the best thing to do after the PaP is ignore the points, just keep running round killing small groups with 1 shot. Once you have 90 kills go buy Jugg, which even with a 40 kill PaP still normally happens at about 2:30 with about 6 shots used. I wanna do some testing, to see if using a little more time and a couple of shots more to get 100 plus kills and a 2:45 Jugg is helpful towards the 6/6/30 kill amount.

This has always been the only thing I have never been able to make up my mind with on NML, 1 shot into 1/2 a group or 2 into a full group.

Alot depends on the time, which you can only feel. If you get everything done very quickly you can use 1 shot after PAPing and clear nearly 20 zombies if done correctly and within time. However, if you are not going to beat the buzzer that stops them being 1 hit M&S kill it's better to clear the crawlers and a couple of dogs ASAP.

I've spoken with Eye about this a lot, I know that in a few of the videos that he has seen of mine he believes that the starts are better with 1 shot at a time. I think it entirely depends on the spawns. If they are fast wait for a full group, if they seem slow and you have 10 get rid of them. Just be aware that if they don't die on 1 shot you have in effect wasted a bullet.

[Superhands]

I've been playing a bit today just testing the starts up to 6/6/30 ammo, I've noticed that if you can get up to 100+ kills by 2:45, using no more than 8 M&S shots, the chances of a 320+ kill game are good as you'll normally end up with 200+ kills by the time you get to the said ammo count.

[Ehjookayted]

This thread is so useful. I think it's time to start on our ultimate NML survival guide! I feel like we've deciphered almost everything one would need to know to get a great high kill run.

[Superhands]

Absolutely mate Not to want to jinx myself, but I genuinely see myself knocking out a 340+ kill game at some point now that I've been working on better starts and ammo management. Though I'll make sure I record every single attempt this time, these high kill games that miss a recording session are killing me :lol:

[Ehjookayted]

Absolutely mate Not to want to jinx myself, but I genuinely see myself knocking out a 340+ kill game at some point now that I've been working on better starts and ammo management. Though I'll make sure I record every single attempt this time, these high kill games that miss a recording session are killing me

8-) Speaking of which, I want to see your 333 kill game! Or is that one of the games you're referring to?

[Superhands]

Absolutely mate Not to want to jinx myself, but I genuinely see myself knocking out a 340+ kill game at some point now that I've been working on better starts and ammo management. Though I'll make sure I record every single attempt this time, these high kill games that miss a recording session are killing me

8-) Speaking of which, I want to see your 333 kill game! Or is that one of the games you're referring to?

Yup as I said on the Official No Man's Land Records thread, every time I'm recording attempts at high kill games, barely even get a PaP most games, just tried squeezing in a nice amount of kills on NML before I started a game on Moon, got some awesome spawns and nailed 333 kills. I posted a screenshot of the final scoreboard on that thread but that'll have to do me for now.

[Tom852]

The ultimate 300+ NML guide would be awesome! We already have a survival guide (you should now Ehjookayted ), but a 300+ guide, yummy.

[Superhands]

Tom, and other guys at 280, 290 kills that are trying for 300, I tell you... 90 second PaP with 40+ kills, then run the main area in a big circle, shooting small groups as they gather behind you; ignore the points for now, either get up to 100 kills with 8 shots before buying Jugg or restart. It won't work every time if the spawns are slow, but it's not hard. If you manage it, carry on playing as you normally do using the back pool or side drop and you'll have a nice chance at 300+.

How do you think TheRelaxingEnd and Mato get such high scores from seemingly average PaPs? They use the very same strategy between PaP and Jugg!

I'm gonna try a 300+ game on the telepad strategy this week, if I manage it that'll prove the effectiveness of starting the game like this ;)

[shirtlesservice]

Alittle off topic, I hit 294 today with my shirtlesservice account running the pad strategy. I hit about 145 at 6/6/40, beyond that I forget my stats. At the end, I had about 7 zombies left all of them damaged. The problem is that earlier in the game 2 of my ms shots had disappeared as I fired them (this was pretty early, it would have cleared a horde just before a beep). I realized just now that those 2 shots would have pushed me over 300 (If only slightly). I'm RAGING :x :cry:

[Chopper]

Ok guys, a guide has been discussed between Eye, Super and myself, looks like it is going to happen.

I am making a video at the minute comparing 2 starts I did today pretty much back to back. The results are interesting.

Just to tease one game I had Juggs, 102 kills and 6 M&S used in 2 minutes 45 seconds, the other I had no Juggs, 104 kills and 5 M&S used in 2 minutes 43 seconds. This is mainly for you Tom ;)

[Tom852]

You are just kidding me. I can do what I want. 20-25 after first nade, 40 at pap. Then I kill big groups = 80 @ Jug, kill small groups = 80@ Jug, cheat myself a deathmachine and kill everything I see = 80 kills @ jug, and Jug is always between 2:30 and 2:50.

You are playing a different game i think.

sl3oH2HfWFM

This video is private because it contains cheats for demonstrational purposes, but as the people do not understand, only chopper and hands can see it.

[Chopper]

Tom's method is by far the most fun I've ever seen!

[Superhands]

That's one way to do it Tom maybe cheat yourself a Wave Gun? Though I'm not sure what the command is to do that :?

Alittle off topic, I hit 294 today with my shirtlesservice account running the pad strategy. I hit about 145 at 6/6/40, beyond that I forget my stats. At the end, I had about 7 zombies left all of them damaged. The problem is that earlier in the game 2 of my ms shots had disappeared as I fired them (this was pretty early, it would have cleared a horde just before a beep). I realized just now that those 2 shots would have pushed me over 300 (If only slightly). I'm RAGING :x :cry:

Well, 290+ on the pad is always impressive, you would have gone well over 300 kills if you'd used one of the other areas mate What approach did you use to get so many kills that early on?

[Tom852]

I mean this vid serious. How can you claim you get 100, when I even get 80 in Hardcorestyle?

[shirtlesservice]

That's one way to do it Tom maybe cheat yourself a Wave Gun? Though I'm not sure what the command is to do that :?

Alittle off topic' date=' I hit 294 today with my shirtlesservice account running the pad strategy. I hit about 145 at 6/6/40, beyond that I forget my stats. At the end, I had about 7 zombies left all of them damaged. The problem is that earlier in the game 2 of my ms shots had disappeared as I fired them (this was pretty early, it would have cleared a horde just before a beep). I realized just now that those 2 shots would have pushed me over 300 (If only slightly). I'm RAGING :x :cry:[/quote']

Well, 290+ on the pad is always impressive, you would have gone well over 300 kills if you'd used one of the other areas mate What approach did you use to get so many kills that early on?

I think I had well over 2000 points at the start (around 2470 I think), and I killed around 50 before PaP, and I just used your strategy of not worring about ammo too much for jugg. I had jugg by 6/6/45, I had had a huge group of crawlers left after my second nade that I got rid of immidiatly. Then the spawns just ended up really good, got groups in really quick a few times. I wasnt going for high kills untill I checked my score around 6/6/20 and had like 235 :)

[Chopper]

I mean this vid serious. How can you claim you get 100, when I even get 80 in Hardcorestyle?

You will see in the video I promise, a massive part of it is how you start and in going on the pad. The games I will show aren't even the best starts, they could be at least 10 kills higher with the right things happening.

[Superhands]

Yeah I'm sure Chopper's vid will help. I found this part pretty simple, just make sure to shoot at their feet when you turn back to shoot and you'll do some nice damage with more spread ;)