Execution and strategy

[Mr. Jay]

After listening to my boss babble for two hours on tax season and company budget, I headed back to my office to do a piece on "Execution and strategy". Its ok, he doesn't know and he likes me.

After another fail attempt on NML last night, I realized no matter how many Superhand's guide I read or Tom's looping videos I watch, I am still the lousy player I was before. Watching them ease through zombie spawns and tricking zombies AIs with their nifty moves I tried to do the same and made it to round 11. Just because I idolize Tom or have a poster of Superhand doesn't mean I can pull the moves they pull. The more I fail from their guides the more I realize their true greatness. A football player once said "to score a touchdown you just run faster than the guy chasing you".

Strategies are helpful but executions are essential. With each strategy there is a good deal of execution required. Players refine their games by minimizing their weaknesses, practice practice and more practice.

I have seen many many videos on NML, yet I have not been able to reach 100 kills. Watching Tom explain the intricacies of zombie looping again isn't going to net me another 30 kills either. I need to simply accept the fact that I am good at finances, not zombies, no matter how many Superhand videos I favorite.

[way2g00d]

I am No expert when it comes to zombies but I can Help you out with a few one on one sessions with zombies. You can do this! Add me on psn or xbox. (Way2g00)

[Mr. Jay]

I thank you for your offer and looking forward to following your lead. I do suggest you read my "worse game play ever" to get a feel of what you are signing yourself up for.

[way2g00d]

I am not going to teach you anything, just give you company. You will watch and learn if anything I am available tonight if you like to game, also NML is one of my grey areas. I never played enough of that or just too impatient with the damn dogs. If you like to shoot for high rounds instead I am game. I am always willing to help.

For NML I advice you follow this thread below written by 'NML God' ChopperNator.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=18880

[Superhands]

Players refine their games by minimizing their weaknesses, practice practice and more practice.

I'd say, go with your own advice there bud Believe me, once upon a time, I was one of the worst zombies players there was. I just stood there, shooting them and hoping they would die before I would, doesn't work so good. Then I saw YouTube videos of people kiting, looked fun. Struggled with it for ages, but after lots of practice, I just kept improving. I'm sure about 90% of your fave zombie slayers will tell you a very similar story.

Keep at it and the improvement will come, practice makes perfect ;)

[Ehjookayted]

Players refine their games by minimizing their weaknesses, practice practice and more practice.

I'd say, go with your own advice there bud Believe me, once upon a time, I was one of the worst zombies players there was. I just stood there, shooting them and hoping they would die before I would, doesn't work so good. Then I saw YouTube videos of people kiting, looked fun. Struggled with it for ages, but after lots of practice, I just kept improving. I'm sure about 90% of your fave zombie slayers will tell you a very similar story.

Keep at it and the improvement will come, practice makes perfect

My story is exactly like 'Hands here. I'm not a legend at zombies, but I'd like to think that I was one of the innovators of NML around here, with 'hands and ChopperNator, of course. So, if you would just like to talk about some gameplay basics and grasping the kiting basics, I can definitely help you. I want to help. It's been a while since I wrote a strategy guide (or at least a full blown one), but I'm sure people can tell you, I'm a trustworthy source and maybe a source of inspiration? I don't know about that last one, though! :lol:

[Shooter]

Players refine their games by minimizing their weaknesses, practice practice and more practice.

I'd say, go with your own advice there bud Believe me, once upon a time, I was one of the worst zombies players there was. I just stood there, shooting them and hoping they would die before I would, doesn't work so good. Then I saw YouTube videos of people kiting, looked fun. Struggled with it for ages, but after lots of practice, I just kept improving. I'm sure about 90% of your fave zombie slayers will tell you a very similar story.

Keep at it and the improvement will come, practice makes perfect

My story is exactly like 'Hands here. I'm not a legend at zombies, but I'd like to think that I was one of the innovators of NML around here, with 'hands and ChopperNator, of course. So, if you would just like to talk about some gameplay basics and grasping the kiting basics, I can definitely help you. I want to help. It's been a while since I wrote a strategy guide (or at least a full blown one), but I'm sure people can tell you, I'm a trustworthy source and maybe a source of inspiration? I don't know about that last one, though!

I'll back you up 200% here Eh! You and Chopper are the kings of NML hands down without-a-doubt! I remember when No Man's Land was a brand new concept when Moon dropped, and while most people put all the focus on the rest of the Moon map, you two took No Man's Land survival to a whole other level and showed us all the way.

I still remember it wasn't even a week or two after Moon dropped, and you guys were getting +200 plus kills on the damn thing. I guess what I'm trying to say, is Ehjookayted and ChopperNator are beast at No Man's Land Survival (and survival in general!) and are consistently some of the best zombie players here.

Had to chime in here fellas!

[Superhands]

Good to see you back Shooter, long time no see!

Shame you missed the innovation I've also put into helping even the biggest of NML newbies in getting 90 second PaPs with a fair amount of ease, something they'd never previously been able to do using conventional methods, and more recently helping a few people really bump up those kills in the early stages to better their end scores. I've always been ever the NML player since it's release, but at the time we were all working on the Master Zombies Guide and the NML area was already being covered and I was busy covering most of the solo stuff.

Either way, Eye and Chopper definitely deserve an honorable mention just as much as myself amongst those that help and inspire people to improve their gameplay, particularly when it comes to NML ;)

[Shooter]

Good to see you back Shooter, long time no see!

Shame you missed the innovation I've also put into helping even the biggest of NML newbies in getting 90 second PaPs with a fair amount of ease, something they'd never previously been able to do using conventional methods, and more recently helping a few people really bump up those kills in the early stages to better their end scores. I've always been ever the NML player since it's release, but at the time we were all working on the Master Zombies Guide and the NML area was already being covered and I was busy covering most of the solo stuff.

Either way, Eye and Chopper definitely deserve an honorable mention just as much as myself amongst those that help and inspire people to improve their gameplay, particularly when it comes to NML

My bad Super! I didn't mean to exclude you! I aways think of you as the Solo Master, I forgot that includes NML. My apologies again man :oops: And now that I think about it didn't you write a NML guide while I was still here? Or we're you still doing the Solo guides at that point?

Anywho glad to see you're still here Superhands! I love that a few of you guys stuck around.

EDIT: whoa! :shock: 333 kills on NML!! Jesus Super that's nuts! And 73 on Moon? That's why you're the Solo Master!

[Mr. Jay]

I thank everyone for their support. This post was written to express my own peace with being lousy. I enjoy zombies despite being mediocre. I am in awe by some of your achievements and can only dream of reaching someday. But I am fully aware that not everyone who worship David Beckham gets to be one. I can watch his tapes and practice hard but only he gets to sleep with Victoria. Meanwhile I continue to be featured in silentcrisis' "worst people you ever pkayed with."

Peace out zombie nation.

[way2g00d]

welcome back oStonedShootero, one of your threads is orphaned after you left man (Ascension Leaderboard) , haha. Good to see you back.

[Chopper]

When I first started with zombies I really was terrible. Like needing an M14 on round 2 and getting overwhelmed due to my awesome aiming abilities.

The first time I got to 40 co-op it took 7 hours, that was a couple of days after playing solo to 38 in 5 hours.

I learnt entirely on the stage in Kino how to kite. I've always felt that there are 2 different types of kiting - functional and beautiful. Beautiful means always selecting the least obvious path, and you end up almost in a dance with the zombies. I practised this much more than functional stuff and I've always felt it has helped me improve. Someone recently said something on one of my videos about my reaction times. It's something I've never really thought about as how important it is. I realise that when I'm kiting I'm fully switched on as it's not functional, I'm having fun with the paths. This means that when I suddenly have something go wrong I feel I'm in better control of the situation as it's almost an extension of what I'm already doing.

Try and get used to being as close as possible to the zombies. The closer you are to the hoard in a lot of cases, the easier an escape can become.

To practise this on Kino start by the turret on stage, and don't leave it. Try as hard as you can to not go behind the stage at all. On Kino it is more than possible to circle every hoard with just the turret, and learning this will make you a much better player.

I understand what you are saying regarding limitations as to how good you may become but I feel with enough of the right practise anyone can get to a very very high level. You just need to challenge yourself to try new ways of playing the game that we all love :D

[Superhands]

Well said Chopper. I think one of the most valuable pieces of knowledge you can gain to make you a better player is to learn how the zombies react to your own movements. This of course only comes with practice, but soon enough you'll be able to read them like a kids book

No worries at all shooter, was just filling you in been a lot of changes and thing going on while you've been gone. I've also done some co-op NML stuff with Tom852 which is floating round the Moon gameplay and strategy forum, including a guide to make getting Jugg for 2 players easy, and a WR for the fastest ever 2 player PaP :d

[Chopper]

I'll back you up 200% here Eh! You and Chopper are the kings of NML hands down without-a-doubt! I remember when No Man's Land was a brand new concept when Moon dropped, and while most people put all the focus on the rest of the Moon map, you two took No Man's Land survival to a whole other level and showed us all the way.

I still remember it wasn't even a week or two after Moon dropped, and you guys were getting +200 plus kills on the damn thing. I guess what I'm trying to say, is Ehjookayted and ChopperNator are beast at No Man's Land Survival (and survival in general!) and are consistently some of the best zombie players here.

Had to chime in here fellas!

Thanks Ostoned

everyone is pushing some real nasty scores these days, and I dont think we could have done it individually without bouncing strats and ideas amongst ourselves on the forum

Myself, Phxntxm and Mix were talking today on skype, whilst playing I might add. I have done this with Eye in the past and Way.

Mix posted the above as we were bouncing stuff around. It's so completely true. I'm 100% sure I wouldn't have gotten to 300 withouts Eye's help, breaking parts of my game down. This is where most of our NML stuff came from. It was then vastly improved with the work that Super has done, and in the discussions we had in various threads. It was this combination which got me there, and I'm pretty certain all the other guys on here who have managed it. Real team effort.

[Superhands]

I think any player who dabbles in the strategy section and says they haven't learned anything from anyone is a liar I sure as hell know I've learned a few tips and tricks from several players on here, Chopper, Eye, Tom and probably more in ways I maybe don't realise.

[Tom852]

I love your threads and posts, jay! Wanted to give you brains for this, but it says 'must spread reputation' already, what normally happens only on the big names on this board.

I actually thought about opening a similar topic. Cause I cannot go to 300 in NML, no matter how much of chopper's, ehj's and super's and other videos I watch. And all they say is always "just practice". I mean what should you practice? The wrong thing over and over again? Nobody will ever say "how to practice".

I think most of the guide creators do not really know, how well their guides can be adapted. If you just 'see' this certain thing it needs or if you don't 'see' it.

It is really hard to give execution tips.

I have some idea, how you could practice, but this works only on pc and would be with demigodmode.

I think important is also to 'vary' things a bit. Bit earlier nade here, bit later shooting there, bit stretching the path here, and shooting with the M&S a bit more on top, bit more on the ground, jump while shooting to check a different angle.... and suddenly you find something working better then the thing you did before.

What I recommend for you in NML is, go up to moon, get some good perk and guns, especially wave gun + (points for) Jug. Then go back to NML and run those trains for 20 min, save yourself with the Wave when necessary and continue. Like so, you do not die all the time and do not have to restart.

Another thing maybe working well is go to a awesome coop lobby, and play up to round 40 or 50. Always stick to the same area, the favorite area of yours, where you are alone (!). Doing the same thing over and over again will just burn it into your head. And you will notice each detail of the zombies behaviour by time. It will just give some kind of routine. You will by time be able to say 'oh, too close here, now i get a hit' before you actually get this hit.

I think its better to understand one area perfectly, then being able to run "just somehow it's working" in multiple areas. You will always focus on "oh shit, ran into a corner, need to avoid this corner". But this corner stuff is not what is essential. Essential is all this little zombie behaviour. Once you know the zombies, you just see an area the first time and you run a good circle in there. Without testing you see if a cutback is possible, if a dodging is possible and so on, and you'll take the best decision, although you never were in this area before.

What you think how I made "Kino Circling - Additions and Extensions?" Was I ever running in this MPL Area before?? No, but I record it and am so freaky to behave like I totally check it... Narrow here, narrow there, cutback working like so, best path will be like so, spawn here and there, problem in this and that narrow spot, doing what i call "wait&dodge" at this and that spot and bang you now the best circle without even tried it once.

Therefore, my final tip is: Practice with a good setup first in a circle of your choice and do the same thing over and over again, till you noticed the last little detail of the game mechanics. Do it at least twice up to Round 50+, maybe best in solo. Best do it to 100, 10hours+ in a row. Even better, be able to do it with closed eyes. (that would be youtube sensation)

Then I think you can start to adapt this knowledge into other areas / guns / perks and so on, including NML. You will suddenly notice stuff like how terrible a LMG without Stamin Up in a small circle is. Just because you have this 'reference', you know that you died cause you ran too slow. Without this reference, you would just have another down that you do not understand and that you cannot learn of.

[Superhands]

Sensible post Tom.

I actually thought about opening a similar topic. Cause I cannot go to 300 in NML, no matter how much of chopper's, ehj's and super's and other videos I watch. And all they say is always "just practice". I mean what should you practice? The wrong thing over and over again? Nobody will ever say "how to practice".

I know for sure I'm guilty of saying 'just practice and you'll get better' in instances like this, but I say that because I mean it. Though maybe it might not work like this for others. When I play and I make mistakes, I try to learn from them. I've learned not to walk back and shoot too much, to cut back rather than trying to make that tricky gap, to sometimes walk slowly rather than running around everywhere so I can see what danger is ahead and give myself time to analyse it. As I say somewhat often, there is probably not much more valuable knowledge than getting a feel for how the zombies will react to the way you move, and that can only come with hours of general gameplay, trial and error.

Obviously, if it's something someone is struggling with in particular, I'll always give specific advice where possible ;)

[Mr. Jay]

I can't believe all the big guns are not only reading my posts but also replying and offering help. It's like having celebrities coming to my birthday party and watch me dance!!! I have to tell somebody!!!!

[Black Wolf]

I'm all kinds of out of my league answering you, but I'm closer to your situation, so I'm going to do it anyway. First things first, I'd never played a shooter before zombies; in fact, it's the only FPS I play. Kino der Toten was my first map, and I failed miserably all over the place. I think I died on like.. round 3... because I had no idea how many hits I could take or what I was doing or anything. Now, I can hold my own in a lot of matches, and do well enough on solo. I'm sure pretty much all of these guys would just pwn me into a little ball of shame, but that's not the point right now. I'm not a super-awesome player, but I'm decent enough that I can enjoy the game better.

Reading strategy guides and watching videos can be immensely helpful, but you don't need to lock yourself into it. For instance, I've seen plenty of videos with certain people doing things that they say are really easy, and when I attempt it.... it's really not easy, but it may lead me to something I like more. Not that any strategy I would come up with is better than the pros', but you have to account for individualism to some extent.

Another thing you will probably never learn from a strategy video is what goes wrong. A few people livestream or post raw so you see their downs, but most people post videos of their best. I know on a lot of Tom's looping guides, he specifically points out (in red!) where dangerous corners are and warns people against backing into them. Nevertheless, it's often not until I am backed into said corner with zombies eating my face that I realize-- oh, he meant this corner! And after that, I know not only where the corner is, but how far back I can go before I hit it. Maybe not everybody needs that experience and it's my own personal failure, but no matter. Every time you go down, take a second to think about why, and that's where you'll probably learn the most.

One thing I highly recommend is taking the time on any given map and just buying up random guns to see how they work. Sure, you can read the statistics for any weapon, but until you actually use it, you really have no idea. Too often, I hear people in lobbies telling other people 'don't buy that gun, it's terrible,' or something. Most of the guns have their uses, but you'll never know what gun that works with your strategy until you actually use them.

Of course, practice is the thing. You mention you're good at finances, so consider how many years of math you took in school. No, I'm not saying you need to play zombies everyday for years to get good, but it is probably a slower progression than you'd like-- I know mine is. You can't multiply before you know how to add. Again, I'm no expert (quite the opposite) and I fail just as much as the next person, so maybe I shouldn't be giving advice. Nevertheless, I figured it might be helpful to get the perspective of one of the zombie plebs.

All that being said, I've played with some pretty good people who had ridiculously high rounds on the leaderboards who went down on round 4 or something because they got careless or something. It happens to everyone.

[Mr. Jay]

Thanks wolf, and many others who sent in their hopes and wishes for me to get better. I may be Rudy Ruettiger, but that doesn't mean i can't have fun with it.

There are millions of us that play the game in search of excitement we don't normally find in our daily lives. Only one gets to be Superhand, or a Chopper, or a Tom. Thats why we buy their posters and sub their videos.

I get emails and praises from things I do really well that someone only wish they could do. Unfortunately it isn't zombies. Meanwhile I will continue to be pleased to be able to reach round 20 on five.

[perfectlemonade]

I'm definitely not as good a player as Eye or Super or Chopper, but I'd like to think I'm no doubt getting there. And I can tell you, 115%, that what the above legends have told you are absolutely true. Everyone is capable of being a pro at Zombies, everyone is capable of getting 300 kills in NML. Every single person on this site is, and I do not doubt that for a second.

But here's the problem.

In order to get there, well, you have to get there first. No matter how many guides you read, how many videos you watch, at the end of the day, those are just strategies. They'll get you nowhere if you don't utilize them. You see, guides are just guides. They help, oh they definitely help, but the only thing that will truly get you better at Zombies is you. Your fate is in your hands, my friend. This game requires a high level of knowledge and, to an extent, skill. You will only be able to acquire this skill and knowledge through going out there and making some stupid mistakes and making yourself angry and making tweaks to your strategy.

I guess what I'm saying is that, in Zombies, the old adage that goes something along the lines of "if there's a will, there's a way" is undoubtedly the driving force of improvement. You don't get a limited number of chances. You don't have to put a quarter in every time you die. You just keep trying and trying and trying and trying.

It will be difficult, oh yes, it will be difficult indeed, but you can do it. I am certain you can. I know this for a fact because I have been in your shoes before. I sucked before, I'll admit it. But did I just move on, declare that this game was too difficult?

Hell.

No.

You try. And you try. And you try.

Eventually, you'll get better. I promise you that.

I don't often point out my own work to other people, but I honestly believe that you could benefit from reading a guide I wrote a while back. Tell me what you think after you're done.

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=19825

Good luck, my friend.

-perfect

[shirtlesservice]

I am No expert when it comes to zombies but I can Help you out with a few one on one sessions with zombies. You can do this! Add me on psn or xbox. (Way2g00)

Ill help to dude, if you wanna play sometime I've already added you, I'll play with Way to, I haven't played zombies with him yet

Edit: after reading the post above this, I have to also recommend Perfectlemonade's topic on Zombies: its a lifestyle.http://callofdutyzombies.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=19424

By far the most inspirational piece on this site, at least for me. Also, just start playing alot, either solo or multiplayer. I think it is easier to get good by playing solo, as more zombies come for you, but it is also much less fun. Play with people, preferably with mics, so you can get advice while you play, and hopefully you don't get bored while doing it.