Another Clue to Kino's Year?

[Rissole25]

Alright so I don't think anyone has ever really mentioned this quote before. It's from Dempsey in Shangri-La, upon buying the M16.

"Ah, the M16. Maiming since 1964."

1iWsJODqmBw

The quote is at 18:04.

The M16 was designed in 1957, and serviced in 1963 (Thanks BBD). I believe Dempsey is talking about when he first used it however. Since Kino der Toten is when he had his first encounter with it, it's possible he is referring back to than. This means Kino could possibly take place in 1964.

But The Fernsehturm had not started construction until 1965. And the 1975 note is there as well. So it conflicts with those as to what the true year is. However, I still believe he is referring back to Kino with the quote.

Discuss.

[tanked99]

nice find my friend :)

[MysteryMachineX]

I don't mean to shut you down, but I'm pretty sure it is just a reference to the M16's date of manufacture.

I've looked around on different sites, and there is a wide variety of dates for that date.

Wikipedia claims "The rifle entered United States Army service and was deployed for jungle warfare operations in South Vietnam in 1963."

I don't believe Wikipedia, so I found another source.

http://star-spangled.narod.ru/60_nam_m16.htm

But they have two claims:

"The M16 was first issued to American Soldiers in Vietnam in 1968."

"The operational debut of the M16 appeared to go quite well when the rifle was first issued to troops in the battle in the Ia Drang Valley of Viet Nam in early November, 1965."

However, I found another source, one that I believe to be correct.

http://world.guns.ru/assault/usa/m16-m1 ... 6a3-e.html

"Following the delays in introduction of the ill-fated 'next generation' SPIW system and production troubles with M14, in 1963 Colt receives contracts from US Government for 85 000 rifles for US Army (designated as XM16E1) and for further 19 000 rifles for US Air Forces (designated M16). The US AF M16 was no more than an AR-15 rifle with appropriate markings. The XM16E1 differed from AR-15/M16 by having an additional device, the so called "forward assist", which was used to manually push the bolt group in place in the case of jams. Next year US Air Forces officially adopted new rifle as M16. Same year US Army adopted the XM16E1 as a limited standard rifle, to fill the niche between discontinued 7.62mm M14 rifle and the forthcoming SPIW system (which newer got past the prototype and trial stages)."

That makes the issuing of the M16 1964.

[Rissole25]

I thought of that, but I don't think Dempsey would even know that. His knowledge of weapon background I'm guessing would only be of those pre 1945-46. I dont think he would even have time to learn it's background, at least not with Richtofen leading them around to complete his objective.

BlindBusDriver thinks he's got an explanation that he is meaning Firing Range, but I'll let him explain.

Your theory could be correct though, but as you've put, there are too many different articles with different dates to be sure it's correct. I know hardly anything about weapons so I have to go by other sources, in this case BBD.

[MysteryMachineX]

Theory? We might as well have a theory as to why Dempsey mentions Facebook when he Pack-A-Punches and a theory as to who is this "player" that he talks to. It is the issuing of the M16. Making it mean something further is redundant.

[Rissole25]

Like you said, there are multiple dates when it was supposedly issued. For all we know, the post you believe is right could be wrong, meaning it's still a possibility he is referring to Kino.

[MysteryMachineX]

No there are multiple SOURCES which say different dates. They say when the M16 was employed to troops and what battles and so forth from that one, and it is a bit conflicting. The only one saying 1963 is Wikipedia, which is NOT a reliable source of information. The last one, however, is very specific in its information, making it the most believable. Not to mention that relating it to Kino has the hiccup of the Fernsehturm.

Also, think about this. I found loads of people on blogs, wikis, and Q&A sites giving different dates. If the populace is picking different dates, wouldn't Treyarch pick a date as well? However, Treyarch, having better resources than... Google, would probably be right in my opinion that it is indeed 1964.

[Rissole25]

Just because it's specific doesn't mean it's correct in it's information.

I'm not saying your wrong, but because there are multiple dates going around, I can't just believe one of them. With that said, he could still mean Kino if it's one of the other years.

Besides the 1975 note already contradicts the Fernsehturm, what's to say this can't either?

[MysteryMachineX]

The note? I've pretty much discounted it due to its little use and uncertainty. For example, most people think that that note date says '75. I disagree, as that is contradictory. I say it says '35.

Here are two different images for the note. The first one is the most often used, and it is slanted, so it appears to say '75. The second is flat, so it could say '35. There's no further way to argue it, and there are some people who still think '75 and some who think that it could be either. All this really amounts to is that the note doesn't necessarily contradict chronology.

[BlindBusDrivr]

I disagree with you all about it's meaning

I think it is a reference to Firing Range, or what was newly dubbed Quarantaine.

They used M16s here to stop the outbreak in 1964.

Let's look at Firing Range, first of all many references to the zombies all over, with the PaP flag,Tank Dempsey on the bullets, the doors, the Gateway to Hell, Quarantaine, bloody room, biohazard, etc.

I think that it is supposed to be the American's way of letting the Cubans in on the research in exchange for them to keep quiet after Castro witnessed the events at the Pentagon...

Also notice that the Helicopter outside the map is an UH-1 Huey Iroqouis 'Slick' with a Ace of Spades skull underneath, the exact same one that drops woods off in the mission SOG.

So notice how the 1964 date falls just between Five in 1963 and SOG in 1965. Woods comes back looking like a mess wonder where he's been....

Just my spin on it.

[Rissole25]

I disagree with you all about it's meaning

I don't know why but I found that really funny and couldn't stop laughing for some reason!

@MMX I can see how the second note might possibly look like 35, however I still see 75 in both. I agree that it may not contradict chronology; like Kino might be 1967, and time-traveler may have dropped that note there (far-fetched, but possible). I guess that could still work with this situation abit, where it's 1967, but Tank might think it's 1964.

@BlindBusDriver Nice colours man!

It's a good worked explanation, but my problem is how would Dempsey know that? Unless Treyarch just did it deliberately and kinda broke the 4th wall by telling us facts Dempsey shouldn't know.

What a confusing topic. If he is talking about Kino, than it would be first, possibly second (depends on their quotes towards the Thundergun in Ascension) time that Kino has been addressed in-game by the crew.

[Eddiethehead]

"Hey! Player! Drop the chips and give me some ammo!"

He's referring to the person playing he game, probably sitting on his chair and eating potato chips. That's the best theory I've thought of so far.

[BlindBusDrivr]

I disagree with you all about it's meaning

I don't know why but I found that really funny and couldn't stop laughing for some reason!

@MMX I can see how the second note might possibly look like 35, however I still see 75 in both. I agree that it may not contradict chronology; like Kino might be 1967, and time-traveler may have dropped that note there (far-fetched, but possible). I guess that could still work with this situation abit, where it's 1967, but Tank might think it's 1964.

@BlindBusDriver Nice colours man!

It's a good worked explanation, but my problem is how would Dempsey know that? Unless Treyarch just did it deliberately and kinda broke the 4th wall by telling us facts Dempsey shouldn't know.

What a confusing topic. If he is talking about Kino, than it would be first, possibly second (depends on their quotes towards the Thundergun in Ascension) time that Kino has been addressed in-game by the crew.

Well you see, I found a way that might explain it.

Our characters knew about Five.

Remember, we can hear the phones going off and when we pick up we hear the Five characters fighting the undead.

I think they may have heard a bit more from that than we do...

[Rissole25]

But to explain all that to them? I know in the game we can just make a crawler and just laze around for ages, but Gersch was in trouble. Samantha was after him, so I don't think they'd be wasting time. Not to mention that JFK and his gang would be fighting off zombies as well.

While it is possible, I find it unlikely. How does the M16 fit into the Firing Range situation though?

[BlindBusDrivr]

But to explain all that to them? I know in the game we can just make a crawler and just laze around for ages, but Gersch was in trouble. Samantha was after him, so I don't think they'd be wasting time. Not to mention that JFK and his gang would be fighting off zombies as well.

While it is possible, I find it unlikely. How does the M16 fit into the Firing Range situation though?

It was a standard issue at the time, and they would have been using it there.

And also, Dempsey may have heard some talk between McNamara/Nixon and Castro about how to compensate for this now that he knows. It's not like they cannot talk either, the characters exchange quotes all the time while we play as them.

[Tac]

The notes most clearly say '75 to me, that is just what I see. I'd love to believe '35 if I actually thought it said that, but I won't personally just say it does to make it fit. Regardless of that, the notes contradict both the date and the Fernsehturm. I don't know what specific source to believe, because it kinda sucks when they all say different things. I don't think that we should believe one source just because it fits, or anything of the sort, not that any of you did that. I'm not fully agreeing with this theory, but I just find it really odd how he would know the year that the weapon came out when the last contact he had with anyone besides Richtofen, Takeo, and Nikolai was in 1945.

[Rissole25]

I just find it really odd how he would know the year that the weapon came out when the last contact he had with anyone besides Richtofen, Takeo, and Nikolai was in 1945.

That all the way. That's why I just don't think of it's a weapon date. It is a pretty random year to say, so I'm just having a guess it's Kino. Ascension takes place 1963, which he is than teleported to the present in CotD. Straight after that, they go to Shangri-La, which is still presumably present time.

I just see Kino as the only fit even though it contradicts. I don't really have any other idea as to what it could be.

[BlindBusDrivr]

I think that the date has more relevance that we think.

Rissole in one of your loading screen pictures from the iOS there's the man walking into the portal with the dates floating around and the year 1964 is one of them.

[MixMasterNut]

I thought we were all way past the idea of using the guns as evidence to decipher the date of the maps?

As far as the two notes MMX posted, It's the same exact texture map on both notes.

I've no-clipped the Kino map on PC with my GFX setting maxed out, and got as close as you possible can to it. It says 75'

[killallzombies]

The notes most clearly say '75 to me, that is just what I see. I'd love to believe '35 if I actually thought it said that, but I won't personally just say it does to make it fit. Regardless of that, the notes contradict both the date and the Fernsehturm. I don't know what specific source to believe, because it kinda sucks when they all say different things. I don't think that we should believe one source just because it fits, or anything of the sort, not that any of you did that. I'm not fully agreeing with this theory, but I just find it really odd how he would know the year that the weapon came out when the last contact he had with anyone besides Richtofen, Takeo, and Nikolai was in 1945.

I think the '75 note is a back to the future refrence

where the doctor leaves himself a note

[BlindBusDrivr]

The notes most clearly say '75 to me, that is just what I see. I'd love to believe '35 if I actually thought it said that, but I won't personally just say it does to make it fit. Regardless of that, the notes contradict both the date and the Fernsehturm. I don't know what specific source to believe, because it kinda sucks when they all say different things. I don't think that we should believe one source just because it fits, or anything of the sort, not that any of you did that. I'm not fully agreeing with this theory, but I just find it really odd how he would know the year that the weapon came out when the last contact he had with anyone besides Richtofen, Takeo, and Nikolai was in 1945.

I think the '75 note is a back to the future refrence

where the doctor leaves himself a note

Only problem with that is it says 'Beware the doctor' in the message.

[killallzombies]

The notes most clearly say '75 to me, that is just what I see. I'd love to believe '35 if I actually thought it said that, but I won't personally just say it does to make it fit. Regardless of that, the notes contradict both the date and the Fernsehturm. I don't know what specific source to believe, because it kinda sucks when they all say different things. I don't think that we should believe one source just because it fits, or anything of the sort, not that any of you did that. I'm not fully agreeing with this theory, but I just find it really odd how he would know the year that the weapon came out when the last contact he had with anyone besides Richtofen, Takeo, and Nikolai was in 1945.

I think the '75 note is a back to the future refrence

where the doctor leaves himself a note

Only problem with that is it says 'Beware the doctor' in the message.

maybe Maxis is telling his past self to watch out for richtofen

[Tac]

In the end, I think he just knows a ton of unnecessary shit about the M16.

"5.56 millimeters of love."

"Lightweight, gas operated, magazine fed, complete with an anti corrosive chrome plated chamber."

"This thing can crack 1200 heads a minute." (hint to the rate of fire)

[PFCSNAFU]

yea, the weapons werent exactly time period accurate sometimes. We cant always rely on the guns for map info