No Man's Land Frustration and Support Group

[perfectlemonade]

Okay everyone, hello, I'm kind of cranky right now because I've had a very, very rough day in No Man's Land. No scratch that, I've had a very rough experience in No Man's Land altogether. I've had only a couple games over 200 kills, both of which didn't register for some reason, so my leaderboard is stuck at 114 kills. I've mastered Pack a Punch pretty well for the most part. Once every two or three times, I get a solid Pack a Punch time and I'm usually rolling well with my Mustang and Sally. It's easy sailing from there. Right?

Well, not in my case.

You see, I'm usually golden to start off, got my 5000 and then some most of the time, then when I get my pistols, first shot off I get some splash damage, then a zombie or, even worse, a flipping dog springs at me with a snarling mouth and I'm dead. Just like that. No chance to cut back or screenshake or dropdodge, whatever yall do. The dog is faster than me. I'm defenseless. This has happened to me not once, not twice, but three times today. Eventually, I just raged and threw my headset on the floor, not unlike Wings of Redemption did with his poor little controller.

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It was that bad. My whole No Man's Land situation is bad. It's always the stupid stuff that gets me. The one shot, dog bite is a common one, as already mentioned. The phantom corners (two in particular: one on the upper left hand corner of the swamp and one on the telepad directly opposite from Juggernog) down me quite often as well. Disappearing grenades, consumed by a monstrous body of water and zombie, can ruin a good spawn. It's just the BS that screws me over. I feel that I have the skill to do well in No Man's Land, I really do, but the little stuff is what I lack. I mean, for the most part, I'm an excellent dodger. 95% of the time, I zig when I should zig, and I zag when I should zag. But the time between PaP and Jug, when you're so incredibly vulnerable and still have to capitalize on kills and sometimes do risky things, that's where a lot of my downs happen if I get that far.

So what am I doing wrong? Is it just practice? Repetition? I mean, some of these incredible NML players on this site (Superhands and Chopper are the first to come to mind) do things in their videos that literally blow my mind. Superhands was frustrated at himself for a 317 kill game. Just... really? To be honest, I'm quite jealous of some of these NML players.

ANYWAYS, I think I'll stop there before I say something I may regret. What I'd like to see with this thread is just for people that have trouble with NML like me come and share their problems, then some of the NML masters will answer questions. So, without further ado, I guess I'll go first:

1) Is there a specific strategy for dealing with the Mustang and Sally/dog kiss of death?

2) What is the best place to run in the linking period between PaP and Jug? A tight space where you can get the most bang for your buck, like the back pond or sidedrop, or an open area like the swamp? Or something in between? I've watched quite a bit of Chopper's videos, specifically this one:

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And I wonder, how does he do it? How can he shoot two rounds of M&S without Jug and be absolutely fine? And how the FUDGE does he not die 7:05-7:15?!

I suppose it's just wisdom, practice, but I've spent so much time on NML with little results while these pros just go in there and destroy without much effort. I don't get it. I just don't. I can't grasp what gets the pros over the hump, so to speak.

Anyways, thanks for reading. Hope to see some people having trouble—like me—get some much needed personal advice from the pros as well as this thread being a place to just vent your NML problems.

-perfect

[Chopper]

But the time between PaP and Jug, when you're so incredibly vulnerable and still have to capitalize on kills and sometimes do risky things, that's where a lot of my downs happen if I get that far.

1) Is there a specific strategy for dealing with the Mustang and Sally/dog kiss of death?

2) What is the best place to run in the linking period between PaP and Jug? A tight space where you can get the most bang for your buck, like the back pond or sidedrop, or an open area like the swamp? Or something in between? I've watched quite a bit of Chopper's videos, specifically this one:

_Dwz9w3vcPw

And I wonder, how does he do it? How can he shoot two rounds of M&S without Jug and be absolutely fine? And how the FUDGE does he not die 7:05-7:15?!

-perfect

Hey Perfect, I'll try and help as best I can. Firstly, believe me I totally understand where you are coming from as I have been there. The first week or so I played was rough.

First thing that sorted me out was getting a consistent, but slow PAP strategy down. When you PAP every other time as a minimum it means you can actually concentrate on the most important and difficult part of NML, PAP to Juggs.

This is when a game is set. Now I've been talking with Super, and doing some testing and will be releasing NML breakdown 2 tomorrow, and will highlight this time. I will show all the ways I know how to do it.

Depending on your personal goal, which from the sound of it 250 just get on the PAD the second you get Pistols. Just do it. Watch any video from the PAD - Super has a few, Mix does, I have some stuff and concentrate on the technique of kiting. Get a full hoard and then get a shot off and continue circling, then when you have recovered get another shot off. This is by far the easiest way to get Juggs and has been done to at least 280, one by Mr MixMasterNut.

On question 1.....It's about shot selection pure and simple, which comes from practise and lots of fails, plus success of what works. It's difficult to define but I will try in breakdown 2.

Question 2.....Ok when I rewatch it I can see that it may look a bit suspect but red screen works in a funny way. You can sometimes stay red for ages but actually be recovered enough health to still take hits. This is entirely instinctive but if you watch a lot of high run videos they will have moments of this 'redness' where they are still red when they fire a doubleshot and are fine. I watch it and know that they are going to be fine, I'm 100% certain Super would be too.

This comes down to living on the edge over and over again, and just knowing the recovery times.

I hoped this helped in some way. Main thing is get a safe PAP and then Juggs strategy to get some confidence. My first high game was 167, then 190, 210, 220, 230 then 278.

I tell you as you get a couple of 200s under your belt, which you will if you even just stay on the PAD you will gain confidence, and learn a lot whilst not wanting to break things.

It took me 2 months to go from 298 to 300, then I did maybe 20 of them in a week after that. Confidence is key. Doctor from here, ages to get to 300, hits 301 then 317. Phxtnxm is stuck on 298, hits 300 and then suddenly hits 323! Super has a similar story. Confidence is key in NML, once you gain confidence you get your swag on and then good shit happens :D

[perfectlemonade]

Tried out the telepad, Chopper. Didn't get any high scores, but every time I PaP'd, I got Jug. The lack of dogs is what makes it. Thanks for the awesome reply. I can tell this is gonna help me out a lot. Like the rest of the game, NML is all about taking small steps, I think. Thanks again man. [brains]

EDIT: 219 kills using telepad with 29 shots left. Underestimated the M&S' strength. Really proud of myself. Thanks so much Chopper! Really man, I'm feeling a lot better about NML now. You completely made my day.

[Mr. Jay]

I understand your frustration.

Mine story is similar, with the help of CODZ I am able to consistently PAP and make the necessary moves. Problems is, I can only put together 4-5 attempts before getting dizzy.

I think the skills required to be successful are not prevalent in the actual games, but more situational. I have learned a lot and improved my overall game, but those skills are not required in actual maps. I still enjoy the challenge and will continue to battle, but I wouldn't lose sleep having only 75 kills.

Keep up the god work, I have enjoyed your posts, try to write more in the future.

P.S. what time zone are you in?

[Tankeo Dempsaki]

I watch videos, I read stats, I try at least 10 times a day every other day, and I only have around 68. The ONLY thing I've learned is to jump to avoid getting hit, and lately it seems that pnly works on NML.

I've Pak'd 3 times. And every time I take too long and can barely kill anything.

What am I doing wrong? :cry:

[perfectlemonade]

P.S. what time zone are you in?

Eastern Standard. :D

[Superhands]

I see Chopper's had this under control

But yeah mate stick with the telepad strategy, also don't worry about getting the PaP consistently then getting screwed over before getting Jugg, happens to the best of us.

It may help actually to get your PaP then head back to the telepad to make your Jugg points, it's obviously not as quick but it's much safer, at least you'll get there and doing it like this certainly enables a 250+ game.

[Tom852]

Although no one can answer, what a good NML day for hands is (we know what he understands under a "bad" day)....

See my frustration today lemonade.

First, a ton of bad spawns and Speed Reloads. In between some stuff that looked well, but that I just messed up. In the end, a nice looking run, where I just waste about 5 shots for nothing (shooting only half of the train etc), execute cutbacks where it is just luck that the dogs don't block you etc...

Hands, this is a bad day in NML.

@Lemonade: I think the key to success is Choppers 10 step program, Hands' Hybrid Strategy and patience. A lot of patience. A super TON of patience and endurance!!

It happens to everybody, that you give a MS shot on your feet without jug and a second later a dog kills you. The douzble swipes and double hits and everything, that happens to Chopper and Hands too...

10 tries a day? Let me tell you a secret. I might finish every 50th-100th run with a proper result.

50% Speed Reload

40% Bad Spawns

8%-9% you mess it

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[Ehjookayted]

Good posts from everyone; I agree with what everyone has said.

Guys, off-topic, but just a little: do you think that the NML Survival Guide is outdated?

[Mr. Jay]

Although no one can answer, what a good NML day for hands is (we know what he understands under a "bad" day)....

See my frustration today lemonade.

First, a ton of bad spawns and Speed Reloads. In between some stuff that looked well, but that I just messed up. In the end, a nice looking run, where I just waste about 5 shots for nothing (shooting only half of the train etc), execute cutbacks where it is just luck that the dogs don't block you etc...

Hands, this is a bad day in NML.

@Lemonade: I think the key to success is Choppers 10 step program, Hands' Hybrid Strategy and patience. A lot of patience. A super TON of patience and endurance!!

It happens to everybody, that you give a MS shot on your feet without jug and a second later a dog kills you. The douzble swipes and double hits and everything, that happens to Chopper and Hands too...

10 tries a day? Let me tell you a secret. I might finish every 50th-100th run with a proper result.

50% Speed Reload

40% Bad Spawns

8%-9% you mess it

Hang in there buddy. You know you are close and you know you can do it. Only matter of time. It might be one of those deals where you come close many times but simply could not do it, then all the sudden hit 335. Stay thirsty my friends.

[perfectlemonade]

Great info and tips, Tom. Though I didn't get any impressive scores today, I did have a 213 game with 6/6/28 left in the clip running in the back pond. Oh, what could've been...

Anyways, once I've gotten warmed up (takes me about 15 minutes to get my feet on the ground, so to speak) I usually PaP in 85-100 seconds most every time with Jug. I am still trying to master Super's Hybrid Strategy though...

The only problem I have is just getting trapped. Sometimes the zombies go one way when I think they're going the other way. Oh well. It'll get better in time. My high is now 255. I'm now looking to expand my horizons away from the telepad for a faster route. Now it's only a matter of getting better with my kiting, M&S placement, and learning to predict dogs' movements quicker.

[Superhands]

Guys, off-topic, but just a little: do you think that the NML Survival Guide is outdated?

Honestly mate, I think it could do with an overhaul. But I think maybe you, myself and Chopper could work on a v2, Chopper and myself have found out a lot that has helped members on here better their scores, some of them even getting to 300 using our tips and advice.

[Chopper]

Guys, off-topic, but just a little: do you think that the NML Survival Guide is outdated?

Honestly mate, I think it could do with an overhaul. But I think maybe you, myself and Chopper could work on a v2, Chopper and myself have found out a lot that has helped members on here better their scores, some of them even getting to 300 using our tips and advice.

Eye I will work with Super on getting something made, I've been thinking for a while about trying to collate various videos......but I might try and do my 10 point plan with Supers assistance for some of the gameplay. I will also look at our other members who has posted various videos and take from there. But all CODZ

There is so much stuff floating around, as Super said a fair amount from the 2 of us that I don't think it needs to be rewritten....reformatted for sure.

[Zkreym]

Great info and tips, Tom. Though I didn't get any impressive scores today, I did have a 213 game with 6/6/28 left in the clip running in the back pond. Oh, what could've been...

Anyways, once I've gotten warmed up (takes me about 15 minutes to get my feet on the ground, so to speak) I usually PaP in 85-100 seconds most every time with Jug. I am still trying to master Super's Hybrid Strategy though...

The only problem I have is just getting trapped. Sometimes the zombies go one way when I think they're going the other way. Oh well. It'll get better in time. My high is now 255. I'm now looking to expand my horizons away from the telepad for a faster route. Now it's only a matter of getting better with my kiting, M&S placement, and learning to predict dogs' movements quicker.

Trust me, I used to be the same as you. Just takes practice!

______________________________

Practice training dogs in Der Riese.

I'd recommend starting out getting a decent PaP and kiting on the telepad.

When you think your ready go out to the side-drop or back pool. When your comfortable with either one, learn how to properly aim you M&S shots. Shooting the ground is more effective than shooting directly at the horde.

The reason why Hands manages to double shoot with out jug is because he jumps and is in a reasonable distance away from the splash damage.

[xFaTaLx RaMpAgE]

Right so I figured I would try to get into no mans land yesterday so I started up a game. First try I get doubleslapped by the first zombies. Next time I get speed cola. Them I get speed cola 7 more times. At this point I'm like wtf fml. Then I finally get a decent grenade off and I get hit from the shockwave or whatever. I wait like 5 seconds then go knife a crawler and die in 1 hit. Needless to say I didn't play any more NML yesterday after that.

[Mr. Jay]

Just like Superhand says "Practice Practice Practice".

Many of you have good foundation and solid skills from the normal maps, just need familarity with NML. My skills are far less refined yet I see consistent improvement.

Want to feel better about yourself? I have been playing for a month now and my high is.......75.

[Phantom]

and learning to predict dogs' movements quicker.

lol you can't predict this half the time, I just try as far away from them when I make a cut back and I'm usually safe...but still not always. Dogs are the most annoying things in NML imo.

[xFaTaLx RaMpAgE]

If you think NML dogs are annoying, you have no idea how ba the Dead Ops dogs are. I've seen dogs do 360s, run past you then do a 180 to bite you, jump halfway across the map, bite you through a person, bite you from 10 feet away, trap you, bite you through a wall, and my personal favorite: dying 20 times a game from them.

Dogs are ridiculous.

[Superhands]

and learning to predict dogs' movements quicker.

lol you can't predict this half the time, I just try as far away from them when I make a cut back and I'm usually safe...but still not always. Dogs are the most annoying things in NML imo.

Yup. You could be in the perfect situation, then all of a sudden out of nowhere a dog does a superman across your screen, blocks you in a corner and leaves you cursing at your screen

The reason why Hands manages to double shoot with out jug is because he jumps and is in a reasonable distance away from the splash damage.

I actually never double-shoot without Jugg, no matter what distance you are from the blast, if you take 2 hits then that's it - down

Something I also should add, is the importance of trial and error.

Watch NML videos from a variety of players. All of the top players have different quirks thrown into their game, little things they do in their strategies that help them.

I know we've said not to try and copy people, but trying these things out and seeing if they work for you or not is pretty important, you have to pick up tricks of the trade from somewhere. My entire NML strategy is about 75% stuff that I picked up from other players, 25% stuff I improvised on and found that it worked.

[Chopper]

What Super said....I very rarely double shot without Juggs even though you may have seen it in a couple of my videos. You can always find a safe distance but you can't find that distance and guarantee 20 due to dogs.

You are better using 2 seperate shots to make sure of 20 kills.

As Super said it's a lot of trial and error, and trying new things to see if they work for you.

I spend possibly as much as 50% of the time I'm playing NML trying new little things out. It's pretty much always been that way. The way I learnt was watching one Relaxing video, and then trying stuff out myself.

I like to think most of what I do in my PAPs is pretty original, inspired mainly by discussions between myself and Eye. Actually most of my kiting is that way. But almost all of my shooting has come from stuff I've picked up of others. In both Steve and Supers last NML videos I got stuff which is now a major part of my NML arsenal. Keep watching, and only try and take 1 thing at a time. Watch Supers last video for instance on the side drop and see the way that he does his cutbacks from the side drop, stairs, side drop. Different than most and worth trying for yourself.

[Tom852]

After I went with Super's Hybrid, I noticed, that this is my gate to 300. I knew, that I can do it.

But I didn't get it. I just failed all the time. Up to a run where I had 10 shots left or something and 290 kills. That is the run to do the 300, isn't it? No it's not, you instantly mess it.

I had to spend 3 days playing only NML, till I finally got my 306 kills. I was not satisfied, and went on playing. The next run with Jug and good Spawn was another 300+. Seriously, I failed in about 50 "Jug + Good Spawn" runs before. But once the pressure is gone, it was no more problem anymore.

I think more than a lot has to do with self consciousness and self confidence.

Maybe we should think about, how to make people playing NML self confident, and not going into it with a lot of frustration.

[Superhands]

I know exactly what you mean Tom. I got 349 kills yesterday, I'd probably be satisfied if I never beat that score (well, I say that now...). Played some more No Man's Land today, when I played before was just all tension and high adrenaline, getting frustrated when things don't go right etc. But now, I just relax and enjoy it, and I'm getting more consistent as a result. I'm now managing 110+ kills at Jugg pretty consistently when the spawns are decent, using only 4-5 shots, which leads to 230+ at 6/6/30. This used to be a rare occurance until today.

I did a half-hour session on NML just now: Among a few slow spawn restarts, there were 2 failed PaP attempts, 2 PaPs and fails at Jugg, 3 PaPs and Jugg with 110+ kills, few slow spawns after so I just restarted. Then another 340+ game just now, 344 even though the spawns weren't that great. I'm guessing, a game with fast spawns throughout may get me a WR breaking score, or close enough. All of this just because I'm not getting stressed.

I know it's easy for me to say being in the position I'm in, and will be mega hard to put into practice - but try to not take it too seriously is my advice. A few bad spawns, you get frustrated, all of your composure goes out of the window and you start playing like crap. I just play NML for fun now, if a good game comes out of it then it's a bonus but if it doesn't I'm not fussed, and as a result I'm playing better than ever.

[Ehjookayted]

Guys, off-topic, but just a little: do you think that the NML Survival Guide is outdated?

Honestly mate, I think it could do with an overhaul. But I think maybe you, myself and Chopper could work on a v2, Chopper and myself have found out a lot that has helped members on here better their scores, some of them even getting to 300 using our tips and advice.

Eye I will work with Super on getting something made, I've been thinking for a while about trying to collate various videos......but I might try and do my 10 point plan with Supers assistance for some of the gameplay. I will also look at our other members who has posted various videos and take from there. But all CODZ

There is so much stuff floating around, as Super said a fair amount from the 2 of us that I don't think it needs to be rewritten....reformatted for sure.

Sure thing. It's crazy to see where we started with all this, a guide, simple, easy, still effective, but now we've made great strides and I think that the guide is still a great way to get familiar with the territory. Almost like the preface to actually doing the 10-point program, wouldn't you say?

Is that not sound advice? Read the guide to get a feel (only if you're brand new, of course), but then move on to your guys' big boy stuff. Not really in a position to give No Man's Land advice at the moment. Need that 330 to re-establish myself, eh? ;)