Survey about difficulty of zombies

[Matuzz]

I think zombies are too easy, this results in the matches becoming way too long.

Do you think zombies should be more harder? Making the matches itself shorter but making it more rewarding.

Why getting awesome score needs to be round 100 and take hours when it could be round 30?

Great example is NML, even though I haven't played it the matches are short but very rewarding.

Of course I'm not suggesting making zombies as hard and short as NML. But the level of difficulty should increase much more between rounds and not be only the amount of zombies spawning overall.

Who is with me on this one?

[Mr. Jay]

Excellent idea!!

The first ten rounds are too easy, too slow. Maybe some balance in the future.

After round 30 unless you have thunder gun it becomes really hard in a sense weapons are not effective and you are forced to incorporate traps into your strategy. More powerful weapons would be nice. Or make PAP far more expensive and far more powerful.

I would say if you can make it to 30 on a particular map, chances are you can make it a lot further. If you are disciplined and patient enough. I would like to see some balance in that as well in future maps.

[Superhands]

I don't think the difficulty needs to be tampered with. If you find it too slow and want it to be both fast and more difficult, do speed runs instead using areas like the alleyway on Kino or Tunnel 11 on Moon. There is almost always a strategy you can use that increases the speed and difficulty. People use the slowest and easiest areas, and they wonder why it gets too boring

Also if you want a fast and furious game, play No Man's Land. There may be a lot of restarting involved, but you can never say it's dull with any amount of players, and success could get an awesome game out of 15 minutes of play ;)

[xFaTaLx RaMpAgE]

Yes and no. It does take long to get to high rounds but if you want to have fun play a 4 player or something. However, when you look at Dead Ops, where it always gets harder I think they should make t harder faster. Like maybe fight the monkey on round 20 or 30, and have the game start off at like level 20 or 30 difficulty. Just my thoughts though

[Matuzz]

I don't think the difficulty needs to be tampered with. If you find it too slow and want it to be both fast and more difficult, do speed runs instead using areas like the alleyway on Kino or Tunnel 11 on Moon. There is almost always a strategy you can use that increases the speed and difficulty. People use the slowest and easiest areas, and they wonder why it gets too boring

Also if you want a fast and furious game, play No Man's Land. There may be a lot of restarting involved, but you can never say it's dull with any amount of players, and success could get an awesome game out of 15 minutes of play

About NML I'll see if the map packs are in sale some day in Steam and I would buy them

But I'm more Co-Op guy and I'm not so much into playing the maps in solo. In Co-Op you really can't rush the rounds trough that much.

My highest round in 32 on Kino Co-Op and almost every time the matches end because people need to go because they don't have time to play for hours including me. And the gameplay indeed comes tiring and boring. And so did ended my highest round in Kino.

I just feel generally the Co-Op matches just stretch so long that people ran out of time or get bored.

Tweaking the matches to take roughly 1-1.5 hours and like after 1.5 hours its getting very very hard would be nice.

Keep rounds 1-7 the same.

Rounds 8-15, zombies would get much more health.

Rounds 16-20, again zombies get each round more health but they come also faster.

Rounds 21->, again more speed and health each round. Zombies start spawn in every room. Running and making trains comes harder when you need to evade the hits of the zombies who spawn in front of your route.

[Chopper]

It's tough Matuzz on this topic. I understand what you mean in a lot of ways. I do not know your skill level at all, but as Super says the way I keep it fun is by playing for fun. Now in the current format I can do that in varying ways, be it running crazy areas or messing with friends.

Maybe it could be an option as you have described but what you have done is basically have rounds 8-15 become what say 30-40 are now and then combined max spawn speed with an inability to make a train.

People will still be able to do it though, as a lot of people don't make trains perse, in your example a train is spawn control and moving through the map. I think most people like it how it is.

You can get to 50 co-op on a few maps in under 3 hours, and 50 solo on most in 2 hours or so.

Now a lot of people are prepared to play for 8 hours or so, which is how a lot of less experienced players can get to round 50 co-op, by playing really slow and safe.

Take that and see that if you get 2 really good players playing for 8 hours they can do much more.

I think what I'm trying to say is that by doing it your way you are taking away what more people like about zombies, the almost marathon like quality. Sure not everyone does, but an awful lot of people especially when the maps are new can happily spend 12 hours a day playing if they can.

But I do like your idea, of somehow having it become Super difficult after 1.5 hours, but I think it should be an additional mode with seperate leaderboards. Maybe something like the map starts getting locked up differently each round, until the team ends up almost in a last stand situation if they can survive that far.

[Tom852]

NOOOO! Leave zombies as it is.

NML is indeed a great example, but it should stay some kind of side challenge. All the 10h sessions I've done, they were just awesome. I mean only in those long games, Johnny forgets to turn off his mic. He keeps it on, while he is on the phone with his girlfriend. And you can hear it all... Such stuff is just epic and zombies is the only game I know where this happens. This is also a situation where you can make new friends. How should to meet new virtual friends in quick 5-10min NML sessions. You meet them in 10h sessions.

But on the other hand, I totally understand you. Just yesterday, after 1.5hours with randoms on Ascension. I had to say "sry guys, I leave, I'm bored".

[perfectlemonade]

Definitely not too difficult. Zombies has a way of lulling you into this half sleep sort of state, even in co op, when suddenly something happens (teammate goes down, wunder weapon fires a blank, etc) and BAM, your heart is racing and you're scrambling for dear life.

But I do like what 3arc introduced with NML. It sets up for another dimension of Zombies completely in the next game. We just have to wait and see... :D

[Matuzz]

NOOOO! Leave zombies as it is.

NML is indeed a great example, but it should stay some kind of side challenge. All the 10h sessions I've done, they were just awesome. I mean only in those long games, Johnny forgets to turn off his mic. He keeps it on, while he is on the phone with his girlfriend. And you can hear it all... Such stuff is just epic and zombies is the only game I know where this happens. This is also a situation where you can make new friends. How should to meet new virtual friends in quick 5-10min NML sessions. You meet them in 10h sessions.

But on the other hand, I totally understand you. Just yesterday, after 1.5hours with randoms on Ascension. I had to say "sry guys, I leave, I'm bored".

But I'm sure majority of people don't have 10h to play zombies not even 4h or so.

If lets say zombies would get significantly harder after 2h so the games wouldn't last often more than that, you still have time to make friends in that time. Nothing prevents to start again with that guy if both have 10h time to play zombies.

But people have jobs and studying to do and usually with good team at the current state of the zombies matches they will just stretch too long.

And it just feels like you are giving up because you or the other guy doesn't have enough time or gets bored.

There should be some kind of solution to make both types of players happy.

For example Hardcore mode which is much harder thus making the games quicker and then the normal mode how it is now.

And have separate leaderboards for both.

[Tom852]

That's a good idea Matuzz. I'd support it. If you need to bring over the next 4 5 6 hours, go for softcore. But if you just wanna do a quickie, go for hardcore. Actually an idea with potential.

[Matuzz]

That's a good idea Matuzz. I'd support it. If you need to bring over the next 4 5 6 hours, go for softcore. But if you just wanna do a quickie, go for hardcore. Actually an idea with potential.

We could hone the system of the hardcore mode and how it would be different from the softcore and then post thread together to the Future Zombies section if you would like?

[MysteryMachineX]

Zombies is good as is. If this is too easy, then what you get might still be too easy, as masters of the game will always raise their par to the game. It just makes getting to be a master harder, and when it ends up taking forever to become a master difficult or just impossible, people don't want to play the game. Furthermore, if such a theoretical peak of impossibility exists, eventually no one will be able to play the game. Even if you stop just before the peak, only the pros will get to play the game at its extent. The pros are not what the game is about. Zombies is for recreational players, hobbyists, advanced players, AND pros. You can't start to exclude one group. The mechanics are down pat; there is no reason to change them. No Man's Land brought something extra without changing too much. The pros get to have fun; the hobbyists occasionally a reckless, headstrong challenge, but unskilled players have the option of skipping it altogether and just going for Moon.

[Superhands]

Well said MM, we have to take into account that the reason zombies is so popular is because it's so playable. What does Mr. Normal do when he's been playing the game for a month and it's too hard to get to round 10? He gets frustrated, says f@£& this, and never plays again, so will never buy the next game and never get his friends into it so they won't be buying the game, and their friends won't be buying the game, and their friends won't be buying the game, and their friends won't be buying the game, and their friends won't be buying the game, and their friends won't be buying the game, and their friends won't be buying the game, and their friends won't be buying the game, and their friends won't be buying the game, and their friends won't be buying the game, and their friends won't be buying the game, and their friends won't be buying the game... and so on...

[Ehjookayted]

Zombies is the perfect example of a great game. Many games have certain traits that make them stand out, but you know that the difficulty of your game is perfect when it is so easily playable that it pleases the casual gamer: get to round 30 using your head, your aim, and repeat for all other maps.

But the true beauty of zombies is the complexity with which us strategists like to study the game. There are so many ways to approach situations, as well as the actual behavior of the zombies, to study. This is what balances the game out for all players.

You can pick up and play the game, and it's moderately difficult, an adequate challenge until you reach a point when you don't want to play, like all games. Or, you can play the game and study the intricacies of it, finding the most efficient of strategies, difficult and easy, maximizing the game's difficulty as well as its fun factor.

There's nothing truly quite like creating a game where you know that when you fail, you can usually find somewhere you went wrong. That is the beauty of this game's difficulty.

[Tom852]

Can I throw in a question?

Is this about the difficulty of the game, or is it about the length of a single game?

[Matuzz]

Can I throw in a question?

Is this about the difficulty of the game, or is it about the length of a single game?

Well I guess its more about the length of the games.

But of course if the game was harder it wouldn't be so lengthy.

I think 3arc should really consider making this express/hardcore mode.

[Mr. Jay]

Here is a thought.

The general age for this game is around 15. To maximize profit Treyarch will develop future games to mainly please that age group with something for everyone else. With that in mind I cannot foresee future games get harder, but more complex with new technology to appeal young teenagers. In fact I can easily see more Kino and Ascension types of maps in the future.

[Chopper]

Here is a thought.

The general age for this game is around 15. To maximize profit Treyarch will develop future games to mainly please that age group with something for everyone else. With that in mind I cannot foresee future games get harder, but more complex with new technology to appeal young teenagers. In fact I can easily see more Kino and Ascension types of maps in the future.

Are you sure Jay? I thought the average gamer age was around 35 with the average age of people who buy the most games just above 40?

[Mr. Jay]

I'm sorry I meant COD in general. Assuming zombies are still sort of "opening act" for the main series.

[Chopper]

COD MP - yeah I believe this is a younger age, certainly the more serious gamers.

Zombies more serious players seem to be a bit older.

Now the imagine the market value is somewhere between 85-90% for MP, so they game is tailored towards MP.

The thing with zombies is that Treyarch actually seem to listen to the community. Now it depends where they go to listen, if they were to come here they will find a range of ages but the thing is even the younger guys on here are a lot more mature than the older guys in other locations.

How that leaves us in relation to what Treyarch will do for zombies....I'm not sure.

Maybe the above is more my hopes than actual opinion!

[Mr. Jay]

I not sure so much as listen. They will do what maximizes the dollar, or euro. Maybe they fetch ideas from here time to time if the ideas fit their parameters.

Going into any lobby for games you will find Kino and ascension are by far the most played maps. Because they are easy and more appealing to the general public. Almost no one play nacht or shang because the perceived difficulty. New inventions and big easy maps are the likely the model weather we like it or not.

What they did extremely well on the last map was to make the overall map easy, big, exciting but also NML for the zombie masters. Everyone's happy.

Future maps will not get harder, it will stay simple but complex. With side challenges for the hardcore fans.

[selectyeti89]

LEAVE ZOMBIES THE WAY IT IS!!!! I think I know why you are getting bored with zombies, you arent doing it right! You could split up and hoard all 24 zombies on round 20 and make a game to 30 take 3-4 hours or you can camp together and SPAWN KILL with RAYGUNS. The faster you kill the zombies the faster they respawn and the faster the rounds go. Thats what I do until about 35-40 which is what I consider the beginning rounds. i really should make a thread about this, its hard to believe how many people dont know this!

[Chopper]

LEAVE ZOMBIES THE WAY IT IS!!!! I think I know why you are getting bored with zombies, you arent doing it right! You could split up and hoard all 24 zombies on round 20 and make a game to 30 take 3-4 hours or you can camp together and SPAWN KILL with RAYGUNS. The faster you kill the zombies the faster they respawn and the faster the rounds go. Thats what I do until about 35-40 which is what I consider the beginning rounds. i really should make a thread about this, its hard to believe how many people dont know this!

I think the art of camping was lost in the transition to Black Ops from WAW.

I have never played WAW but have heard that to be successful involved camping....at least until the kiting style was developed.

TBH I actually really really enjoy camping on occassion. For someone who learnt zombies and kiting, camping is refreshing as almost a new skill set. Sure it's limited to maybe 35 rounds but those sure are fun.

[JakeDuck]

It is hard to say exactly what would be changed to make it harder. I think the zombies need a new, better AI system. At high rounds (Roughly 25+) some zombies would break from trains now and then, some would try to cut you off, etc. I also think that the mid round bosses should stay in zombies, but spawn more frequently in higher rounds than in the lower rounds.

[WrathoftheLamb]

I think that the difficulty leading up to round 10-14 is good as it is. It leaves time for setup and acquiring weapons, perks, etc. for the lategame. I think however that the lategame is too easy.

I'd rather after round 15 have smarter Zombie AI than Zombies with health that increases 1.1 times every round.