The Only Thing Needed

[perfectlemonade]

The Only Thing Needed

Hola, Codzers! Just here to share with you some of my musings that I have thought about for the last month or so, starting with vsualvenom’s insane round 62 run on Nacht, with nothing but a Thundergun and a perk that serves no tactical purpose in Mule Kick by his side. It struck me all at once when I saw him clear out round after round. I realized, when dealing with pros, that they do not require perks to survive. They do not require Juggernog, Flopper, Revive, anything. They do not need Pack a Punch, nor do they need traps or a easy, foolproof method to get Max Ammo’s.

No, dear Codz, they only need a weapon.

They do not need two weapons. They do not need three weapons. They only need a single tool that, when wielded by the hands of well, Superhands, or VzualVenom, or Choppernator, or anyone in their category, is capable of clearing out a single horde with relative ease.

How did I come to this conclusion?

Well, first, let us look at Nacht der Untoten. More specifically, at Venom’s incredible ROUND 62 run he achieved recently.

fh-jFIo5N6I

As you can see, he completely abuses the art of spawn control to the extent that this strategy almost looks easy (but just almost). This, of course, doesn’t take away from the fact that he is an absolute monster, and this just may be the single most impressive feat that has ever been achieved in Zombies. The way he handles everything so coolly, so calmly, yet still manages to keep alert and focused during his sometimes tense midround box hits is, well, extraordinary. And a true mark of a pro.

Which proves his Thundergun, and if you want to think abstract, a freaking ingenious strategy, is the only thing that Mr. Venom needed to shatter a solo world record on Nacht. With someone like Venom at the helm, there is no need for Juggernog. After all, his first down was on round 62, while my personal best for most rounds without a down is just 57 (and that was on Ascension!). The greatness this man possesses is absolutely extraordinary, to say the least.

Pros around the globe are already eyeing his record. Word on the street is that Nacht is on Superhands’ list for 100 on every map. Psyched to see the highlights of that game, whenever it may come around.

Oh, but it doesn’t stop there. While Nacht is certainly a test, it is not the defining challenge in a pro’s growth. No, I think that occurs in No Man’s Land.

A man and his pistol.

Nothing else (except Jug, but that’s for not getting killed by your Sally’s)

There are so many incredible NML videos out there—mainly by Superhands, IISteveII (or something like that; I can never get his name right), MatoMaster21, and Choppernator, amongst others—that you cannot really boil everything down to one incredible feat of NML. I have tried, but there are so many amazing runs that I really cannot decide.

Anyways, NML is the proving ground for pros around the world. It is what thins the herd, separates the truly gifted players from the rest of the pack. This is where names are made. Why?

Well, as my friend Eye has told us, NML is not only about your Sally’s and keeping smart and alert, but you are constantly fighting against something else much more powerful and commanding: time itself. I understand I am rambling some here, getting off topic some, but in order to show just how valuable the weapon itself is in No Man’s Land, you need to truly understand that you are not only fighting zombies, but time. The end all be all. The thing we cannot run from. Ever.

We are fighting our deaths.

Now, where does the Mustang and Sally come into this? It is a tool, an almost time bending talisman, so to speak, to combat the unending progression of time. It is, along with Juggernog, the only thing you need to break a record in No Man’s Land.

However, one would say that No Man’s Land has no place in this thread, for you need Juggernog dearly in it. But here is where I disagree. For the pros, Juggernog is not about the additional health, but rather the additional resistance to the explosive splash damage that occupies every shot by the PaP’d pistols. I have asked this question before, and I will ask it again:

If PhD Flopper spawned in place of Speed Cola in No Man’s Land, would you take that over Juggernog on world record runs? The answer, I feel, is yes. The explosive resistance would increase maximum kills by at least 15-25, I think. So if Mustang and Sally’s did not hurt you, I believe we would be looking at maybe 400 kills.

Now, I have some other opinions, and the answers are really varied. Three have said Jug, while the other three have said Flopper. Personally, I feel there are arguments for both sides. I just wish that there was a way to put Flopper in NML.

Oh well. It will be a forever unanswered question, I suppose.

Point is, though, if Mustang and Sally’s did not kill you, then the only thing needed would truly be your weapon.

So there you have it. After weeks of conversing with fellow strategists and friends, I have decided that you do not need Juggernog to survive. You do not need teammates. You do need Pack A Punch. No, the only thing needed, Codz, is your weapon.

What is your opinion on this matter? Do you agree that a solid weapon is all you need? Or do you think Juggernog is just as important? Discuss.

Thanks for reading!

-perfect

[xFaTaLx RaMpAgE]

First impression after reading= box whore :twisted:

Great thread- [brains] Pros don't need anything other than a controller to survive.

The only exception is that on CotD you can't get far with just your weapon, you need teammates.

[Chopper]

This is a very well written thread.

I agree that you don't actually need Jugg to survive, if you adapt.

My game with Steve last night....we both survived without Juggs as we adapted.

As I said in my video, the down I had in the STG room on SNN was solely down to not wanting to waste time killing the hoard slowly. I used 2 betties, knowing that I would have a full new hoard in an area that is pretty much impossible to survive without Juggs.

It's mainly about adaptability to circumstances. I think that is what truly separates the people you are listing (I thank you wholeheartedly for that btw).

Letting someone die rather than reviving.

Again, from my video I posted today there was a situation in Verruckt Bar where I could have saved Way. He posted as much on the video. Looking back I could have actually revived him, and am a tad embarrassed that I didn't.

I will explain what I was thinking at the time though. I knew I had 3 zombies behind me, and wasn't sure where Steve was. The problem would have been if I had revived him and then Steve had gone down during it. In that case I would not have been able to escape. Turns out I didn't escape anyway, due to a bad kiting decision. I could have done another 2 cutbacks in that crappy area and survived rather than go down the way I did. These things just happen.

But if I had got Way up, I would have had to clear 3 zombies and then escape straight into the Thompson room to try for Steve again. I would not have made this under those circumstances.

If I did the challenge again I probably would have taken the risk, it just didn't seem right at the time.

With Flopper or Juggs. I would take Flopper personally. It has the potential to lead to more kills, but (and I saw Super say this earlier on Skype) to finish a 10 minute game on the side drop or back swamp is mind numbingly hard. The best I have done on the side drop with no Juggs is 180 kills at 5 minutes, with 38 + 12 left. I got killed when they went to 3 shots. So I spent 3 1/2 minutes in that area, kiting as quickly as possible.

Could I do that, at that level for 8 or 9 minutes? 1 in 100 maybe.

However Flopper would enable 330 kills on the PAD with relative ease in my opinion, with the right spawns.

[perfectlemonade]

This is a very well written thread.

I agree that you don't actually need Jugg to survive, if you adapt.

My game with Steve last night....we both survived without Juggs as we adapted.

As I said in my video, the down I had in the STG room on SNN was solely down to not wanting to waste time killing the hoard slowly. I used 2 betties, knowing that I would have a full new hoard in an area that is pretty much impossible to survive without Juggs.

It's mainly about adaptability to circumstances. I think that is what truly separates the people you are listing (I thank you wholeheartedly for that btw).

Letting someone die rather than reviving.

Again, from my video I posted today there was a situation in Verruckt Bar where I could have saved Way. He posted as much on the video. Looking back I could have actually revived him, and am a tad embarrassed that I didn't.

I will explain what I was thinking at the time though. I knew I had 3 zombies behind me, and wasn't sure where Steve was. The problem would have been if I had revived him and then Steve had gone down during it. In that case I would not have been able to escape. Turns out I didn't escape anyway, due to a bad kiting decision. I could have done another 2 cutbacks in that crappy area and survived rather than go down the way I did. These things just happen.

But if I had got Way up, I would have had to clear 3 zombies and then escape straight into the Thompson room to try for Steve again. I would not have made this under those circumstances.

If I did the challenge again I probably would have taken the risk, it just didn't seem right at the time.

With Flopper or Juggs. I would take Flopper personally. It has the potential to lead to more kills, but (and I saw Super say this earlier on Skype) to finish a 10 minute game on the side drop or back swamp is mind numbingly hard. The best I have done on the side drop with no Juggs is 180 kills at 5 minutes, with 38 + 12 left. I got killed when they went to 3 shots. So I spent 3 1/2 minutes in that area, kiting as quickly as possible.

Could I do that, at that level for 8 or 9 minutes? 1 in 100 maybe.

However Flopper would enable 330 kills on the PAD with relative ease in my opinion, with the right spawns.

Thanks for the kind words!

And yeah, when dealing with the sheer difficulty of running around with side drop with no Jug, it is pretty daunting. But you also have to take into account that, with Flopper, you can use M&S to defend yourself without fear of killing yourself. Once in a blue moon, though, it could work. But only with certified BAMFs such as yourself.

[heillingalj]

Great thread, some really interesting ideas here.

[xFaTaLx RaMpAgE]

Thanks for the kind words!

And yeah, when dealing with the sheer difficulty of running around with side drop with no Jug, it is pretty daunting. But you also have to take into account that, with Flopper, you can use M&S to defend yourself without fear of killing yourself. Once in a blue moon, though, it could work. But only with certified BAMFs such as yourself.

This is a very well written thread.

I agree that you don't actually need Jugg to survive, if you adapt.

My game with Steve last night....we both survived without Juggs as we adapted.

As I said in my video, the down I had in the STG room on SNN was solely down to not wanting to waste time killing the hoard slowly. I used 2 betties, knowing that I would have a full new hoard in an area that is pretty much impossible to survive without Juggs.

It's mainly about adaptability to circumstances. I think that is what truly separates the people you are listing (I thank you wholeheartedly for that btw).

Letting someone die rather than reviving.

Again, from my video I posted today there was a situation in Verruckt Bar where I could have saved Way. He posted as much on the video. Looking back I could have actually revived him, and am a tad embarrassed that I didn't.

I will explain what I was thinking at the time though. I knew I had 3 zombies behind me, and wasn't sure where Steve was. The problem would have been if I had revived him and then Steve had gone down during it. In that case I would not have been able to escape. Turns out I didn't escape anyway, due to a bad kiting decision. I could have done another 2 cutbacks in that crappy area and survived rather than go down the way I did. These things just happen.

But if I had got Way up, I would have had to clear 3 zombies and then escape straight into the Thompson room to try for Steve again. I would not have made this under those circumstances.

If I did the challenge again I probably would have taken the risk, it just didn't seem right at the time.

With Flopper or Juggs. I would take Flopper personally. It has the potential to lead to more kills, but (and I saw Super say this earlier on Skype) to finish a 10 minute game on the side drop or back swamp is mind numbingly hard. The best I have done on the side drop with no Juggs is 180 kills at 5 minutes, with 38 + 12 left. I got killed when they went to 3 shots. So I spent 3 1/2 minutes in that area, kiting as quickly as possible.

Could I do that, at that level for 8 or 9 minutes? 1 in 100 maybe.

However Flopper would enable 330 kills on the PAD with relative ease in my opinion, with the right spawns.

If you use m&s to save yourself it will likely be while gathering a horde. This means that you will not be killin a full horde, because not all tw zombies are there yet. This would be a waste of ammo and would therefore restrict te amount of kills possible.

[VzuaLxVenoM]

Hey thanks, didn't know this thread existed until now. chopper linked me. props to him. and 90% of the stuff u said in this post is completely true. and i can promise that training in NML for hours really stretche out ur capabilities.

[Superhands]

Excellent post, my friend.

You're absolutely right, only a way of killing the zombies is needed to keep going. Juggernog is a very valuable tool that enables us to use faster and more effective strategies. BUT, it's not essential. There is a tactic for the majority of maps that you can use that's slow, but can see you through 50 rounds without taking a single hit.

The basics of spawn control:

Spawns will only take place in current room/area + both adjacent rooms/areas.

Areas normally marked by where door/debris once where, but occasionally differ.

Keeping a door closed will eliminate obviously a spawn area.

So, at a certain round after 40, the spawns will be fast enough for you to have them spawn in your zone in a clump, before running out to a couple of areas away which will be a spawn-free zone. Then you just run a figure of 8 shape with all zombies coming from one direction (exactly like running the telepad on NML).

If you can work out a strategy like that, you've got the safest (albeit probably slowest) strategy for that particular map). I know I've put out a couple of these types of strategies, and know more that have never been used that I haven't bothered putting out.

As also mentioned, becoming a good NML player will improve your kiting abilities, therefore survivability, in ways you could never imagine.

[perfectlemonade]

Hey thanks, didn't know this thread existed until now. chopper linked me. props to him. and 90% of the stuff u said in this post is completely true. and i can promise that training in NML for hours really stretche out ur capabilities.

No problem man. Pretty cool a beast like you sees a thread made by little ol' me.

Thanks for the epic video! Gave me something to write about. 8-)

-perfect

[MyLittleHellhound]

I am tempted to attempt this on the weekend

Probably won't get too far, but what's the harm in trying eh?