Ascension after the events of Blops II zombies?

[Poppymelt]

Currently almost everybody is saying that Ascension happens after Kino and before Cotd. Now i don't understand this. Here is my reasons.

The most logical way out of Kino is teleporting. You don't start Ascension being teleported, you start on a lander.
All of the characters look diffrent. However they look the same way in Kino and Cotd.
Red eyes before they removed the moon on Ascension and changed the menu screen the characters had red zombie eyes.
In the radios Yuri says he see Sam, If she was in the pyramid how could he have seen here?
Last and this is the biggest one. Takeo says he wants to kill Richtofen for what he has done. He says something similar at the end of the Moon easter egg. In Ascension he didn't have a big reason to kill him. He never talks about it at all in Shangri La.

So i think in the Blops II zombie maps will get Sam her body back, Undue the effects of the rockets from Moon easter egg, and Sam will be able to freely travel between the Aether and Earth/Moon.

[Poppymelt]

The only refrence of Ascension i have seen is in Cotd when tank says "Oh come on! This better be more rewarding than last time. Stupid Gersch." That was more of a joke as in Shangri La tank also talks about the player and Treyarch alot.

[Rissole25]

When Takeo sees the Mine Cart, he says "It's no Lunar Lander, but it will suffice".

Also, it's just a gap between Kino and Ascension, much like Shangri-La and Moon. Something happened between than, we just don't know what it was. But it's not any of the other maps.

[Kill_All_Monkeys]

In Cotd, Richtofen clearly makes a reference to overloading the gersche device/kassimir mechanism (sorry if I butchered those names), and it is once again commented on in Shang.

It is also never confirmed that Yuri physically saw Sam BEFORE he was trapped in the Aether, where Sam resides in spiritual form anyway. All we hear is her laugh, and how many times have we heard this infamous laughter while never physically seeing her?

The best explanation that I can give is that there is an unexplained gap between the Kino and Ascension. We never get any solid explanation on what happens between maps, only whatever we can glean from quotes and what-not.

This has actually inspired me to create a theory, but I'll have to look and see if someone has already made such a theory first.

[Shooter]

It is also never confirmed that Yuri physically saw Sam BEFORE he was trapped in the Aether, where Sam resides in spiritual form anyway. All we hear is her laugh, and how many times have we heard this infamous laughter while never physically seeing her?

This is correct. Yuri never physically saw Sam until he entered the Aether through the Gersch Device. He only found the toys of Sam, contemplating "How a child could get into the facility"

Currently almost everybody is saying that Ascension happens after Kino and before Cotd. Now i don't understand this. Here is my reasons.

The most logical way out of Kino is teleporting. You don't start Ascension being teleported, you start on a lander.
All of the characters look diffrent. However they look the same way in Kino and Cotd.
Red eyes before they removed the moon on Ascension and changed the menu screen the characters had red zombie eyes.
In the radios Yuri says he see Sam, If she was in the pyramid how could he have seen here?
Last and this is the biggest one. Takeo says he wants to kill Richtofen for what he has done. He says something similar at the end of the Moon easter egg. In Ascension he didn't have a big reason to kill him. He never talks about it at all in Shangri La.

So i think in the Blops II zombie maps will get Sam her body back, Undue the effects of the rockets from Moon easter egg, and Sam will be able to freely travel between the Aether and Earth/Moon.

Yuri can see Sam because they are both in the Aether, although Sam cannot immediately find him.

Oh, and Tak wants to kill Richtofen by the time he reaches Ascension because his brainwashing from Richtofen has worn off. Takeo remembers all the testing Richtofen did on the group, and thus is why he is seeking revenge when Ascension comes around.

He makes a reference quote on Ascesnion about Dempsey and Nikolai not getting their memories back yet.

[Poppymelt]

That still does not explain why they look diffrent and the red eyes. Any theories about this?

[Kill_All_Monkeys]

What do you mean red eyes? I have never seen the characters with red eyes? Also, another reason why this couldn't take place after Moon is the fact that I don't think Takeo, Dempsey, and Nikolai would be willing to work with Richtofen at that point, seeing as how he had used and betrayed them.

Specifically with a man like Takeo who, as we all know, believes in honor above all else. And what did he vow to do? Destroy all remnants of Group 935 (This includes Richtofen, who Takeo already had a grudge against). Zombie apocalypse or not, this would be the perfect opportunity to kill Richtofen, and Takeo would feel as if he has brought dishonor upon himself if he did not take advantage of this opportunity.

Also, Sam whispers at the end of the EE in Ascension "come and find me". It's a little hard to hear but she does indeed say it. So what does the group do after that? They go and find her at Moon.

As for the appearance, I believe there is a huge gap in time between Kino and Ascension and pretty much anything could've happened during that time, especially if they had been wearing the same clothes.

I believe we tend to discount too much info as for gameplay purposes. Treyarch knows what they have the characters say, they do it all on purpose. You just have to think outside of the box here.

[Tac]

That still does not explain why they look diffrent and the red eyes. Any theories about this?

I never noticed the characters having red eyes, could you perhaps find an image?

The difference between the characters from Ascension to Call of the Dead is that Richtofen found a space suit in Ascension and took it off in the closet in CoTD. That makes sense to me at least. Then Nikolai mentions that he took a bath, hence why his clothing is clean in Shangri-La. He mentions getting new boots, which isn't surprising since they were just in a closet. What other differences in appearance tdo the characters have, I can can try and clear those up too.

[Poppymelt]

I believe somewhere in Blops II Richtofen or Sam would have brainwashed the rest of the crew again. Also when Sam says come find me at the end of the Ascension easter egg this leads me to believe she is not in the pyramid because Richtofen knew she was there.

[HammerFace]

:facepalm:

Ascension does not happen after moon. END OF STORY.

there are references to Ascension through all of the maps that were released post Ascension. The character always talks about the player and treyarch, that doesnt mean we can disregard quotes that establish a conscious timeline(chronological wont work because we jump all over the time stream, but if we create one based off of conscious then its the order which we go to each one and experience, which is basically just the list of the maps)also you cant say they look the same in COTD as in kino, we dont see them. sam doesnt say come find me, she just screams.

[Tac]

I believe somewhere in Blops II Richtofen or Sam would have brainwashed the rest of the crew again. Also when Sam says come find me at the end of the Ascension easter egg this leads me to believe she is not in the pyramid because Richtofen knew she was there.

You are right that she says come find me, but I don't think that that means that she isn't in the pyramid. In the loading screen for Kino der Toten, Richtofen asks what happened to Samantha, even though he should have known since Groph and Schuster called him and told him. This leads me to believe that she was more or less saying it to the players and kinda hinted that we may end up finding her.

[mwc45]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but if Ascension happened after moon, then that would mean that Richtofen would technically have control of the zombies and Sam would be in Richtofen's body, which is not the case. So Ascension happened before Moon.

[Poppymelt]

No some event happend in between Moon and Ascension that switched the roles back. Something big and bloody most likely. Which could explain the characters appearances.

[LJx19]

No some event happend in between Moon and Ascension that switched the roles back. Something big and bloody most likely. Which could explain the characters appearances.

Well then lets think about this logically.

If Ascension happened after the events of Moon, as your theory points out, and the events of "Five" and Ascension were unfolding at the same time (which is post Moon events), you seem to forget that the earth was Nuked. And if this is the case, how can the events of "Five" even happen at this point. "Five" takes place in the Pentagon, not a nuclear bomb shelter so if this was the case there wouldn't have even been a "Five" in the first place.

Second hole in your theory is that the events of Call of the dead happen Post-Ascension (which in your theory is Post-Moon). Now simple question, if the world was nuked why would there have been a crew of actors and a director in Siberia making a movie for a post-apocalyptic world? Wouldn't they have died as well?

The third hole is that this would now make Shangri-la the actual last map they were on in Black ops. And of course the problem with that is, Richtofen needed the focusing stone to power the vril-generator. Now if this was the reality, how could he have done the events on Moon, IF he didn't even have the necessary materials? See what I'm saying mate?

[Tac]

No some event happend in between Moon and Ascension that switched the roles back. Something big and bloody most likely. Which could explain the characters appearances.

Well then lets think about this logically.

If Ascension happened after the events of Moon, as your theory points out, and the events of "Five" and Ascension were unfolding at the same time (which is post Moon events), you seem to forget that the earth was Nuked. And if this is the case, how can the events of "Five" even happen at this point. "Five" takes place in the Pentagon, not a nuclear bomb shelter so if this was the case there wouldn't have even been a "Five" in the first place.

Second hole in your theory is that the events of Call of the dead happen Post-Ascension (which in your theory is Post-Moon). Now simple question, if the world was nuked why would there have been a crew of actors and a director in Siberia making a movie for a post-apocalyptic world? Wouldn't they have died as well?

The third hole is that this would now make Shangri-la the actual last map they were on in Black ops. And of course the problem with that is, Richtofen needed the focusing stone to power the vril-generator. Now if this was the reality, how could he have done the events on Moon, IF he didn't even have the necessary materials? See what I'm saying mate?

Well the thing with time-travel is that every time you time-travel, you enter a new reality and everything that is in the past is no longer effected. Because of this, time-traveling to Moon and nuking the Earth did not effect Ascension or Call of the Dead, even if they happened after Moon. The events in history still happened, they are in a seperate timeline that can't be touched at this point. I hope that made sense, but what I am saying is that nuking the Earth during Moon effected nothing that happened in previous maps, no matter when they happened, even if after Moon in a time-frame basis.

Now, I agree with you that Ascension was before Moon, but because of normal time-travel rules, your argument is invalid. I hope I didn't offend you or anything, I just thought I'd point that out.

[LJx19]

Well I think I get the gist of what you're saying, but it seems like if that's the case, with multiple timelines (the way you put it sounds almost like a parallel universe-ish theory), wouldn't there be a point of intersection. Or wouldn't that basically make zombies impossible? If they were created in one timeline, and they keep changing time periods, how do the zombies come to exist in every different location and timeline? See what I'm saying?

[Tac]

Well I think I get the gist of what you're saying, but it seems like if that's the case, with multiple timelines (the way you put it sounds almost like a parallel universe-ish theory), wouldn't there be a point of intersection. Or wouldn't that basically make zombies impossible? If they were created in one timeline, and they keep changing time periods, how do the zombies come to exist in every different location and timeline? See what I'm saying?

Well everything that was done in one timeline effects everything in the current and future timelines. So creating Zombies in timeline A effects every timeline afterwards. If Zombies were created in timeline B, then it effects B, C, D, etc and not A. Does that make sense?

[ZombieFan4Life]

No some event happend in between Moon and Ascension that switched the roles back. Something big and bloody most likely. Which could explain the characters appearances.

Well then lets think about this logically.

If Ascension happened after the events of Moon, as your theory points out, and the events of "Five" and Ascension were unfolding at the same time (which is post Moon events), you seem to forget that the earth was Nuked. And if this is the case, how can the events of "Five" even happen at this point. "Five" takes place in the Pentagon, not a nuclear bomb shelter so if this was the case there wouldn't have even been a "Five" in the first place.

Second hole in your theory is that the events of Call of the dead happen Post-Ascension (which in your theory is Post-Moon). Now simple question, if the world was nuked why would there have been a crew of actors and a director in Siberia making a movie for a post-apocalyptic world? Wouldn't they have died as well?

The third hole is that this would now make Shangri-la the actual last map they were on in Black ops. And of course the problem with that is, Richtofen needed the focusing stone to power the vril-generator. Now if this was the reality, how could he have done the events on Moon, IF he didn't even have the necessary materials? See what I'm saying mate?

well.. if you know what DEFCON means.. DEFCON 1 means nuclear war is emminent.. so maybe ascension is after moon, considering Five can be at DEFCON 1 (I just tought I had to put it out there, some of you may have forgotten about it).

[Poppymelt]

I believe that you undue the Nuke from Moon. I think you can all agree this will happen at some time in zombies. Along with that we are still not sure what those rockets had.

[Kill_All_Monkeys]

I don't mean this in any malicious way, but are you just trolling at this point?

[Undead Nightmare]

Everyone here has presented plausible evidence to both sides of when it took place. What I don't understand is wouldn't it be theoretically impossible for Ascension to happen after Moon and every other map if the crew talk about Ascension in Call of the Dead,Shangri-la, and Moon.(not sure about this one) :geek:

[Tac]

Everyone here has presented plausible evidence to both sides of when it took place. What I don't understand is wouldn't it be theoretically impossible for Ascension to happen after Moon and every other map if the crew talk about Ascension in Call of the Dead,Shangri-la, and Moon.(not sure about this one) :geek:

You are correct. Given that they make numerous references to Ascension while in Call of the Dead and Shangri-La, it shows that they have been to the map already.

[LJx19]

Well I think I get the gist of what you're saying, but it seems like if that's the case, with multiple timelines (the way you put it sounds almost like a parallel universe-ish theory), wouldn't there be a point of intersection. Or wouldn't that basically make zombies impossible? If they were created in one timeline, and they keep changing time periods, how do the zombies come to exist in every different location and timeline? See what I'm saying?

Well everything that was done in one timeline effects everything in the current and future timelines. So creating Zombies in timeline A effects every timeline afterwards. If Zombies were created in timeline B, then it effects B, C, D, etc and not A. Does that make sense?

Ahh ok. Now if this is the case then, and the theory of Moon being first is credible, the real question we need to answer would be "Where did they travel after moon, to the future or to the past?" Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Kill_All_Monkeys]

I'm not sure Treyarch would want to go with the route of a new timeline every time we time travel. Though I do believe there is some form of alternate realities in play here. We probably will end up having to reverse the effects of the missiles by most likely going back in time to stop Richtofen.

It is quite possible for them to go back to a time before Richtofen touched the pyramid, basically before he became obsessed with controlling all the zombies, thus allowing for a way to have him playable again.

[Tac]

Well I think I get the gist of what you're saying, but it seems like if that's the case, with multiple timelines (the way you put it sounds almost like a parallel universe-ish theory), wouldn't there be a point of intersection. Or wouldn't that basically make zombies impossible? If they were created in one timeline, and they keep changing time periods, how do the zombies come to exist in every different location and timeline? See what I'm saying?

Well everything that was done in one timeline effects everything in the current and future timelines. So creating Zombies in timeline A effects every timeline afterwards. If Zombies were created in timeline B, then it effects B, C, D, etc and not A. Does that make sense?

Ahh ok. Now if this is the case then, and the theory of Moon being first is credible, the real question we need to answer would be "Where did they travel after moon, to the future or to the past?" Correct me if I'm wrong.

That is correct. It is possible for Moon to be situated before Shangri-La in terms of what year we are in. Technically, and this goes to Kill_All_Monkes too, it is impossible to time-travel to the past, meaning we couldn't go and prevent the nukes, but I won't get into that since it appears we may have gone into the past from Kino to Ascension. I personally don't believe the theory that Moon is before other maps time-wise, but it is indeed possible.

And alternate realities are indeed very much in the game. When using a Q.E.D. and nothing happens, Richtofen says, "Nothing happened... at least in this reality." Now I'm not 100% familiar with Quantum Physics and perhaps those can switch timelines, I'd have to look into it, but you see my point on how they are indeed in the game.