The Shangri-La and Mars Connection

[Tac]

Sorry mate, but I can pop your theory open right now. It is explained in game as to how there is Element 115 on Earth. Thre were several meteorite collisions with Earth over the years, and some contianed the Element inside. One such place was Shangri-La, where a meteorite collided with Argarath (I think thats how you spell it) and made 115 rain down through the caverns below. As revealed upon completion of the Easter Egg, the temple surrounding the place and the caverns below had all been excavated by Group 935 years before, explaining how Richtofen knew of the Temple's location (and why his name was carved on the altar, in my opinion done by the villagers in commeration of Richtofen as he left). The reason this busts your theory? Simply because Group 935 were there. Think about it, if Ricthofen, Schuster and Maxis had all been to Mars before Moon, they wouldn't sound so shoked about being on the Moon in the radios of the map. So sorry, but this map does not occur on Mars, for the above reasons and the fact not a single person (especially Richtofen) mentions another planet.

Also, I think the loading screen was (obviously) a storm that occured years before, which destroyed many other temples but left the one in the map unscathed. The temples were all teleporters made by Vril-Ya, and perhaps teleported the user to other planets, however only the one to Moon survived (likely explaining how the four got to the Moon). The storm may have also been a result of the giant 115 meteorite landing on Earth.

I am not suggesting that they were on Mars before Moon. I have said repeatedly that they were on Earth and it was moved later. It doesn't discredit my theory really, because I never suggested that when Richtofen and 935 were there, that it was on Mars. Also you prove nothing by saying there was a meteor shower of 115. No 115 meteor crashed with Agartha, because Agartha is underground. A meteor can't just hit something beneath the ground.

[MNM1995]

If there is no 115 in Agartha, how come there is a giant 115 meteorite that needs to be shrunk down in order to complete the easter egg? Also, you said that the mountain range and other stuff inply the map takes place on Mars, but as far as I have checked you never say that the map actually occurs on Earth, but is later moved to Mars, because if that's what you mean then this entire theory is pointless seeing how the map may be on Mars now-a-days, but back when it actualy mattered to the story it was still on Earth.

[Tac]

If there is no 115 in Agartha, how come there is a giant 115 meteorite that needs to be shrunk down in order to complete the easter egg? Also, you said that the mountain range and other stuff inply the map takes place on Mars, but as far as I have checked you never say that the map actually occurs on Earth, but is later moved to Mars, because if that's what you mean then this entire theory is pointless seeing how the map may be on Mars now-a-days, but back when it actualy mattered to the story it was still on Earth.

I have said throughout the replies that it was on Earth, but when we play on it, perhaps it's actually on Mars. I don't expect you to read through every reply, but I thought I had seen a post by you earlier so I figured you were following the thread and didn't realize I said it. As for the meteor, it has no implications towards Agartha, it's just a meteor that you shrink down into the Focusing Stone. That series of events doesn't pertain to Agartha.

[MNM1995]

Yes I know that's what you're implying, but i'm saying that that makes no sense... Like I said before, no character mentionsars or another planet (which surely at least Richtofen would know about) plus, as people have mentioned before, there would be no foliage, no running water, no Oxygen, no gravity and even if you could try and explain all thiss off with your 'Ecosytem' theory, then answer me this- how can there be zombies there? Should be no dead bodies, seeing as its on Mars, yet there are zombie humans AND monkey's running around the place.

[Tac]

They don't mention it because they don't know about it, is the reason I believe. And the ecosystem theory pertains to not only foliage and water, but Zombies and monkeys. Like I said, when it was moved everything went with it, including Zombies and Monkeys. People don't agree with the theory, which is fine, I just believe it's possible because of everything the Vril-ya was able to do inside of Agartha, creating their own ecosystem, government, civilizations, and cities in there.

[MNM1995]

Okay, now think about this- sometime between the Brock and Gary's arrival (which is unstated) and modern day (likely 2011-2012ish) Agartha would have had too build an ecosystem around this chunk of Earth then teleport it to the planet mars, then install a time-travel device in the temple to take the 4 users back to when the chunk was still on Earthand Brock and Gary were there... Doesn't that sound completely and utterly pointless to you? Why would they move it in the first place and then install a device which effectively takes the users back to when it was on Earth?

[Tac]

Okay, now think about this- sometime between the Brock and Gary's arrival (which is unstated) and modern day (likely 2011-2012ish) Agartha would have had too build an ecosystem around this chunk of Earth then teleport it to the planet mars, then install a time-travel device in the temple to take the 4 users back to when the chunk was still on Earthand Brock and Gary were there... Doesn't that sound completely and utterly pointless to you? Why would they move it in the first place and then install a device which effectively takes the users back to when it was on Earth?

They arrive between 2000-2012 given the radios. They are modern, so it brings it back to the beginning of the millennium. As for the time-travelling temple, it was already built so they didn't have to build it in this time span. The chunk of meteor that teleported them back very easily could have been a pre-programmed mechanism before Brock and Gary were even born. The Easter Egg doesn't take the people back to Earth, it takes them back to that time, not that place.

[MNM1995]

Yes but during that time, Shangri-La would still be on Earth so in theory the Shangri-La easter egg is teleporting the four back to Earth, yes? That, to me, seems completely pointless for the Agarath too do.

[Tac]

Yes but during that time, Shangri-La would still be on Earth so in theory the Shangri-La easter egg is teleporting the four back to Earth, yes? That, to me, seems completely pointless for the Agarath too do.

The Agarath? First it's spelled Agartha, and second that is a place. What you mean to say, I assume, is the Vril-ya. And in theory it would be on Earth, yes, however I already said it doesn't take them back to the same place, being Earth. We know that because the mountain is still there during the EE. You may say it went with it, which I doubt, but it would still make sense because after the EE is over, they end up on Mars, or wherever, and Shangri-La is still protected.

[WhosOnFirst]

England __English

Wales __ Welsh

America __ Americans

I can see a pattern emerging here

Agartha __ Agarath lol it made sence to me anyway, needs some ians on the end to make it roll of the tongue wothout sounding like Klingon.

While I am here, I dont know if you guys are aware but

http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/Product/Mars-Rover-Landing/66acd000-77fe-1000-9115-d80258480836

I wish I had a Kinect, but I think you might also be able to use a control pad for this one. Did I mention it is free to play.

The reason they released this game is below

h2I8AoB1xgU

and some more links

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/participate/

[MysteryMachineX]

Thank you for putting that here Rissole! I agree this essentially confirms Mars.

So I took a texture viewer and started going through Shangri La's texturs (of which there are A LOT) but one thing quickly stood out, the texture was named "gp_ztem_mars_vista_card"

It's in the coding, that's epic. I hate to say this, but I told you so. But beyond that, it's now essential to work out the finer details.

Sorry Tac. I didn't think it was logical. In fact, I still don't. But apparently it's true.

I don't believe it's possible to work out the finer details. We have nothing that can possibly really explain it. MixMasterNut's three Pyramids theory is blown out of the water. I'm actually rather disappointed. Zombies was cool, but it made sense. Now it just seems... rather stupid honestly. Science fiction appeals to me, and this is absolute crap.

Plus this essentially negates one of the largest parts of my storyline with no foreseeable substitute. What a waste of time. Guess I can forget the animation. Now who knows how it all began. And who knows what kind of beings Treyarch are going to twist the Vril-Ya into being.

[BlindBusDrivr]

Thank you for putting that here Rissole! I agree this essentially confirms Mars.

So I took a texture viewer and started going through Shangri La's texturs (of which there are A LOT) but one thing quickly stood out, the texture was named "gp_ztem_mars_vista_card"

It's in the coding, that's epic. I hate to say this, but I told you so. But beyond that, it's now essential to work out the finer details.

Sorry Tac. I didn't think it was logical. In fact, I still don't. But apparently it's true.

I don't believe it's possible to work out the finer details. We have nothing that can possibly really explain it. MixMasterNut's three Pyramids theory is blown out of the water. I'm actually rather disappointed. Zombies was cool, but it made sense. Now it just seems... rather stupid honestly. Science fiction appeals to me, and this is absolute crap.

Plus this essentially negates one of the largest parts of my storyline with no foreseeable substitute. What a waste of time. Guess I can forget the animation. Now who knows how it all began. And who knows what kind of beings Treyarch are going to twist the Vril-Ya into being.

Hey MMX,

Don't abandon you're interest yet. There's no confirmation of it at all yet, that coding piece mars_vista is the area of california the developer is in, and _card means it's a 2D texture, like a playing card.

I've got a slight disagreement with Tac here, I say it's on the Moon not Mars. If you want a full story I can show you all of my evidence.

:D

[MNM1995]

It's on Earth! Simple as... I seriously doubt that the developers would make the story this twisted, plus there has been no confirmation or any hints from Treyarch about it. You guys are looking in to this way too much, I mean... I'm all up for logical theories with very good evidence, but this is just too crazy and evidence-lacking for me to consider it's validity.

[Tac]

It's on Earth! Simple as... I seriously doubt that the developers would make the story this twisted, plus there has been no confirmation or any hints from Treyarch about it. You guys are looking in to this way too much, I mean... I'm all up for logical theories with very good evidence, but this is just too crazy and evidence-lacking for me to consider it's validity.

I apologize that you don't see this connection and that there is not enough evidence for your liking.

[Tankeo Dempsaki]

Wait, in the book, where does it say that the Vril-Ya can teleport things?

I only read around six chapters, but I only read that they could heal, create, and destroy by channeling the vril with their staffs. Healers and mothers had the healing abilities amplified with the destructive capabilities removed, while certain individuals had massive power over vril,

In short, where does it say the vril-ya can teleport? I mean, they use mechanical wings to get around, but could you name the chapter where they teleport things?

[Tac]

Wait, in the book, where does it say that the Vril-Ya can teleport things?

I only read around six chapters, but I only read that they could heal, create, and destroy by channeling the vril with their staffs. Healers and mothers had the healing abilities amplified with the destructive capabilities removed, while certain individuals had massive power over vril,

In short, where does it say the vril-ya can teleport? I mean, they use mechanical wings to get around, but could you name the chapter where they teleport things?

I'm not talking about the book when I say that, I am talking Nazi mythology which the game made around. According to them, they were contacted by the Vril-ya and they could teleport among other things. On top of that, they built a pyramid that had teleportation capabilites, so that is an in-game example of why it makes sense that they can teleport.

[Tankeo Dempsaki]

Well, if the Vril-ya play such an important part in the story, why don't we use what they actually are, instead of what Hitler thought they were.

That's like saying "We're gonna put crocodiles in the next map, and they'll have wings, because the ancient Chinese thought croc bones and the like were dragons!"

No, you have to use the source material. The actual facts.

[Tac]

Well, if the Vril-ya play such an important part in the story, why don't we use what they actually are, instead of what Hitler thought they were.

That's like saying "We're gonna put crocodiles in the next map, and they'll have wings, because the ancient Chinese thought croc bones and the like were dragons!"

No, you have to use the source material. The actual facts.

For one, the entire thing isn't a fact in any way, there is no source material. Every story you read, every last one of them, is a theory or mythological belief. There is no "they are actually this" because they never existed in real life. I am choosing the mythological standpoint of the Nazi's, since the game is based on Nazi History and Occultism. You can choose to believe the book as if it's a bible (in relation to the Vril-ya in the story) if you want, that is your choice, but I choose not to.

[STOTTINMAD]

I don't truly believe in the mars theory but it could be that Shangri La was moved, and Vril must have been advanced, I'm I read it that Mars was colonised or something, and terraformed in the myth, but that may have related to those who the Vril shared their universe with.

[Tankeo Dempsaki]

(sigh)

I'm not an idiot. I know it's not real.

In a world where they are real however, the dude who went down and saw them, is the bible.

[STOTTINMAD]

Regardless of their intentions and whether or not Shangri La is on Mars, which in some respects it could be, the Vril Ya would be pretty advanced. If the space rhino's Judoon from Doctor Who could transport a hospital to the moon, then whose to the stop the Vril who are evidently more advanced, transporting things through the Aether. Certainly it links with the Pyramid, and that was on the moon before Griffin Station. So the Vril must have a been an ancient race.

There is one more link and that is Ascension, not the map but actual ascension to something post physical. What if Vril wanted to achieve that but lacked the ability to do so, then Richtofen comes along, and well the rest is tampered histoy.

If I've got this wrong, sorry.

[MysteryMachineX]

Hey. I can offer one explanation. We say generically "the Vril-Ya are advanced", but here is a possible scenario:

1. Man lives on the surface of the planet in tribes and small towns/cities.

2. A great flood nearly kills them all.

3. [A] Some survive underground. Some managed to survive above ground.

4. [A] Relatively quickly habilitated into small tribes. Struggled for survival.

5. [A] Develop into kingdoms and aristocracies. Develop into small tribes.

6. [A] Develop into democracies. Develop into kingdoms and aristocracies.

7. [A] Vril-Ya make the known "utopia" seen in the book. Bulwer visits in 1871. *

8. [A] Vril-Ya become extremely advanced**. Modern day

*So what I suggest is that the Vril-Ya aren't what we thought they were, well those of us that take the book literally. Perhaps since 200 years have passed that they got even more advanced, perhaps exponentially like we do.

** "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke

[Shooter]

Hey. I can offer one explanation. We say generically "the Vril-Ya are advanced", but here is a possible scenario:

1. Man lives on the surface of the planet in tribes and small towns/cities.

2. A great flood nearly kills them all.

3. [A] Some survive underground. Some managed to survive above ground.

4. [A] Relatively quickly habilitated into small tribes. Struggled for survival.

5. [A] Develop into kingdoms and aristocracies. Develop into small tribes.

6. [A] Develop into democracies. Develop into kingdoms and aristocracies.

7. [A] Vril-Ya make the known "utopia" seen in the book. Bulwer visits in 1871. *

8. [A] Vril-Ya become extremely advanced**. Modern day

*So what I suggest is that the Vril-Ya aren't what we thought they were, well those of us that take the book literally. Perhaps since 200 years have passed that they got even more advanced, perhaps exponentially like we do.

** "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke

Nice MMX! Someone's definately read the book. It's actually a pretty good read right?

That's exactly what happens in the book. Well...sorta. The descendents of the Vril Ya did once live above ground on Earth. But there was a great flood, as you mentioned. Most went underground, and they decided to just not come out. I can see how you're saying the ones who stayed above ground eventually evolved into us, so we're not that much different.

But it was when they went underground and we stayed above ground that we started to evolve at a much slower rate than them.

"...these primitive forefathers are said to have degraded their rank and shortened their lives by eating the flesh of animals, many varieties of which had, like themselves, escaped the Deluge (Flood)"

Even though they advanced before us, they still advanced like us. They still had their problems as we do now. But then things changed drastically, when the underground civlization discovers Vril. It was through mastering the use of Vril that made them the "advanced people" we now view them as today.

"It was the age of envy and hate, of fierce passions, of constant social changes more or less violent, of strife between classes, of war between state and state. This phase of society lasted, however, for some ages, and was finally brought to a close, at least among the nobler and more intellectual populations, by the gradual discovery of the latent powers stored in the all-permeating fluid which they denominate Vril."

Chapter 9 talks alot about it.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/atl/vril/vrl08.htm

[MysteryMachineX]

Yes, I read it at the beginning of the development of my storyline on this site. It was a rather nice book.

Well it's heavily implied that we both survived the flood and were in fact one before that. It mentions how the early Vril-Ya were carnivorous, like us. Plus all the similarities you mentioned. And just look at how similar to humans they were. Plus Edward and the Gy were persecuted because of the possibility that they could bear children. So that essentially makes the Vril-Ya sub-human, speciating but not quite a different species yet. However, skip to the 21st century, and now perhaps they've speciated enough by that point.

Also, keep in mind that not all people living in the Earth were Vril-Ya. They actually separated there too. They specifically referenced how there were other "savages" down there. So the people that survived underground were actaully called the Ana. However, one civilization down there discovered vril, and they were the Vril-Ya. They were most prolifent and advanced of them all, and they were the focus of Edward's visit.

So I think the beginning of the Vril-Ya is well-established. I still believe in MixMasterNut's three Pyramid theory, although their origination is probably more muddled at this point. But perhaps that all this futuristic Vril-Ya Nazi occult stuff could be true in the storyline.

After all, the end of the book, the motif of the book, says where their future could be headed. The book ended with the idea that the Vril-Ya would continue to expand as detailed in the book until eventually there's no space left. (By doing so, they'd either assimilate or, more likely, extinguish all Ana besides themselves.) It is then feared that after that, they will then expand to the surface world.

However, what Zombies suggests is that they took a more modest approach. That they chose not to destroy mankind. But they also allow (at least on most occasions) no contact between Vril-Ya and mankind. Apparently they invented space travel long before we did, establishing a Pyramid on the moon, one in orbit, and one on Mars. And then for some reason they decided to move it back to Earth, taking a Martian mountain with it. Perhaps their biosphere emulators had failed or something? Who knows why. Then Shangri-La, now located in the Himalayas, got overrun with native flora and fauna. Some humans found it and thought it holy. Perhaps the Vril-Ya abandoned it to keep with their lack of human contact. Brock and Gary came then, yada yada, crew, blah blah. So forth.

I say that Shangri-La is CURRENTLY on Earth because the main characters CANNOT go to Mars. They had to use a SPECIALLY DESIGNED teleporter just to go to the Moon. The average one is not equipped to go to another planetary body.

NOTE: I do not think Shangri-La is on the Moon. We already have a Moon level.

[BlindBusDrivr]

NOTE: I do not think Shangri-La is on the Moon. We already have a Moon level.

Who says two maps cannot be in the same place? There were 4 maps in Germany/German territory.