Fattening up Zombies

[lackingvoltage]

I am worried about Zombies in BO2. Zombies was the reason I bought WaW and BO, but I think that they are fattening up Zombies too much now. I mean, 8 players? Team gametypes? The thing that worried me most was when Mark Lamia said that "...more isn't always better. Except with zombies." It just goes to show that Treyarch has adopted the idea that more stuff in Zombies is better, and I think that is what will cause it to go down the shitter. More features does not equal better. They are now focusing on getting as much crap into it as possible, rather than focusing on making it fun and intuitive. Just look at Moon. I think they REALLY got carried away with this map, and not in a good way. Having to worry about the oxygen levels, the necessity of having your whole team together JUST to get Jugg, and much more made this map too overcomplicated to even be much fun, and I think this is the direction Zombies is heading in. Two of my favorite maps are Shang and Five, which happen to be two of the least popular maps (Guess I'm in the minority here, huh?) because of how simple yet fun they are, and I also like that they are difficult and require team cooperation, BUT they don't force you to stay together like Moon does. That's just my two cents, I know many won't agree with me, but what is your opinion on Treyarch's new philosophy of more=better in Zombies?

[deathb4di2h0nor]

I can see where your worries are justifiable, but I think it will be fine. Looking at Moon, I see a season finale with one heck of a challenge as well as a cliffhanger. The oxygen levels and what-not were map specific I think. They wanted Jugg in No Man's Land for the solo leaderboard. They couldn't have the teleporter in use constantly with half the crew on earth and the other half on Moon, because the game couldn't handle it at the time. I'll admit, by his quote it does sound like they think more is better in zombies. But hey, it's Treyarch. I would imagine the stock maps will have story additives with small additions as far as gameplay goes. By the end of the game, yes, something big and lots of it is coming. But don't let that ONE epic ending of the game ruin it for ya . They will deliver. Everyone seems to forget that not only does Treyarch see our ideas, they see the criticism that goes along with it. I'm sure they take all pros and cons into account and decide frome there. Never Fear My Friend. Black Ops II Will Be The Best Cod To Date.

-Mark those words.

[Kill_All_Monkeys]

I actually enjoyed FIVE and Shang as well, but I also really enjoyed Moon because of the challenge it presented. I love the diversity the all the maps they made presented. If you think about it, do you think that you would enjoy zombies if they had not changed a single thing since Nacht? Even if you did, I'm pretty sure most of the fans wouldn't.

Sometimes more is better, and sometimes it isn't. For example, George Romero in Cotd. I know a lot of people hated this with a burning passion, and I often found myself cursing him as well. But when I thought about it, his addition was brilliant. It gave Cotd part of it's uniqueness, and it presented a challenge that was very difficult to overcome, particularly the fact that you could never permanently kill him. His presence also acted against camping, which does sometimes take away the thrill from the gameplay. If he wasn't in there, Cotd would've been way too easy.

Now I'm not saying you should've enjoyed Moon and are wrong for not doing so. I'm just saying that when they mix it up like that sometimes, it bring ingenuity to the series that always keeps me roped in. It's not the same boring routine over and over, and it also encourages teamwork. What's the point of making it co-op if no one enjoyed working together?

[complexinvalid]

No offense but zombies already went down the shitter when they added george, napalm/shrieker, astronaut, and the hacker device. And ya, getting jugg every other time and you needed your whole team? Developers must have been playing too much Left for Dead when they were making those maps.

and to the guy above me, camping is what makes zombies exciting. I got addicted to zombies in NDU because the team was trying to hold the zombies from breaking in and guarding the windows and then when we were overwhelmed we would go into camping mode. MUCH HARDER to get further that way than running around in circles for hours on end and them blasting them away with whatever wonder weapon the map has. That's not fun nor does it take skill. Anybody who is coordinated enough to use the sticks can do that. That's why NDU and Verruckt are such brilliant maps. The last 3 maps didn't even feel like zombies. Now if we're talking about camping in MP, then ya I'd like to George to go after them lol

[Tankeo Dempsaki]

No offense but zombies already went down the shitter when they added george, napalm/shrieker, astronaut, and the hacker device. And ya, getting jugg every other time and you needed your whole team? Developers must have been playing too much Left for Dead when they were making those maps.

and to the guy above me, camping is what makes zombies exciting. I got addicted to zombies in NDU because the team was trying to hold the zombies from breaking in and guarding the windows and then when we were overwhelmed we would go into camping mode. MUCH HARDER to get further that way than running around in circles for hours on end and them blasting them away with whatever wonder weapon the map has. That's not fun nor does it take skill. Anybody who is coordinated enough to use the sticks can do that. That's why NDU and Verruckt are such brilliant maps. The last 3 maps didn't even feel like zombies. Now if we're talking about camping in MP, then ya I'd like to George to go after them lol

I resent your tone, sir.

[Kill_All_Monkeys]

I didn't say camping took away from the game, all I ever do on ascension is camp. I was just saying that for some players, it is more fun to rush, while it's better to camp for others. I enjoy the diversity they've created, particualry with the last 3 maps.

I respect the fact that you are entitled to your opinion of the maps, but I'm just trying to think of the fanbase as a whole. Not everybody will like the same thing, that you can't change. Treyarch will never be able to please everybody, but at least they try with these new additions.

[complexinvalid]

I resent your tone, sir.

Sorry, I wrote that really quick and didn't mean to offend anyone. I just like the WaW maps better and think they should go back to that "style." The last 3 maps were just very un-COD-Z like. If you disagree with me then that's fine but I didn't mean to offend you.

I didn't say camping took away from the game, all I ever do on ascension is camp. I was just saying that for some players, it is more fun to rush, while it's better to camp for others. I enjoy the diversity they've created, particualry with the last 3 maps.

I respect the fact that you are entitled to your opinion of the maps, but I'm just trying to think of the fanbase as a whole. Not everybody will like the same thing, that you can't change. Treyarch will never be able to please everybody, but at least they try with these new additions.

Ya, I can see what you mean. But hell, during the zombies panel the devs said they even liked the WaW maps better. I don't mean to offend anyone but if they keep adding in "boss" type things like the napalm, astronaut, and george then that just breaks what made COD-Z fun which was endless waves of zombies. Now if these new features they're talking about include something like an option to turn off George and the napalm and whatever new boss they put in then perfect. Don't really care about the leaderboards, just want to play zombies Nacht-Verruckt style.

[ZombiNation]

All I have to say is if they ever make a map anything like Moon again, Im smashing my disc with my xbox.

[Kill_All_Monkeys]

You know, something that they could do is just make the classic 4 player survival mode simple and basic, no extravagent bosses, easter eggs, complicated methods to obtaining PaP or perks or anything, just like how it was in WaW. Maybe make these maps more like Der Reise.

As for the people that do want these additions, just throw it all into these new game modes. That way, there's still that classic mode that is kept simple and basic for old, more serious fans of the series, and everybody else can just go crazy with everything else. Maybe Treyarch could just create a mix of everything. I think that would do a pretty good job of pleasing everybody.

[bbobs2]

You know, something that they could do is just make the classic 4 player survival mode simple and basic, no extravagent bosses, easter eggs, complicated methods to obtaining PaP or perks or anything, just like how it was in WaW. Maybe make these maps more like Der Reise.

As for the people that do want these additions, just throw it all into these new game modes. That way, there's still that classic mode that is kept simple and basic for old, more serious fans of the series, and everybody else can just go crazy with everything else. Maybe Treyarch could just create a mix of everything. I think that would do a pretty good job of pleasing everybody.

In a way this is what I'm hoping for. Then everyone will be happy

Zombies will be fine, Treyarch have developed this from a little add-on to a game into part of COD and I doubt they are going to throw it away now.

I also don't think that Zombie "Bosses" will go away, look at Der Riese at WaW, the main strategy was to camp by the third teleporter close to the QR, they have found a way to counter this, although it isn't too popular (I'm not a fan either) it is effective and Treyarch are going to have to take a few risks and some of us won't like it.

I really think they're going to make smaller maps to try and counter training in areas and people won't like this. But this is the name of the game, survival, you survive under whatever circumstances are presented to you and see how far you can go. All of these things we hate have made that map unique making us enjoy or despise that map more, Treyarch have never failed to put a challenge in front of us and they won't fail!!

About the more is better thing I'm not sure what they mean by this, yes there is going to be more characters and zombies, possibly more maps but it depends on how Treyarch have approached this. Anyway, there is a zombie killer in all of us. I say no matter what happens we will still enjoy zombies for what it is BOII has been hyped amazingly and will hopefully be better than all previous games put together.

[Kill_All_Monkeys]

You know, something that they could do is just make the classic 4 player survival mode simple and basic, no extravagent bosses, easter eggs, complicated methods to obtaining PaP or perks or anything, just like how it was in WaW. Maybe make these maps more like Der Reise.

As for the people that do want these additions, just throw it all into these new game modes. That way, there's still that classic mode that is kept simple and basic for old, more serious fans of the series, and everybody else can just go crazy with everything else. Maybe Treyarch could just create a mix of everything. I think that would do a pretty good job of pleasing everybody.

In a way this is what I'm hoping for. Then everyone will be happy

Zombies will be fine, Treyarch have developed this from a little add-on to a game into part of COD and I doubt they are going to throw it away now.

I also don't think that Zombie "Bosses" will go away, look at Der Riese at WaW, the main strategy was to camp by the third teleporter close to the QR, they have found a way to counter this, although it isn't too popular (I'm not a fan either) it is effective and Treyarch are going to have to take a few risks and some of us won't like it.

I really think they're going to make smaller maps to try and counter training in areas and people won't like this. But this is the name of the game, survival, you survive under whatever circumstances are presented to you and see how far you can go. All of these things we hate have made that map unique making us enjoy or despise that map more, Treyarch have never failed to put a challenge in front of us and they won't fail!!

About the more is better thing I'm not sure what they mean by this, yes there is going to be more characters and zombies, possibly more maps but it depends on how Treyarch have approached this. Anyway, there is a zombie killer in all of us. I say no matter what happens we will still enjoy zombies for what it is BOII has been hyped amazingly and will hopefully be better than all previous games put together.

I believe this deserves some brains [brains]

[bbobs2]

You know, something that they could do is just make the classic 4 player survival mode simple and basic, no extravagent bosses, easter eggs, complicated methods to obtaining PaP or perks or anything, just like how it was in WaW. Maybe make these maps more like Der Reise.

As for the people that do want these additions, just throw it all into these new game modes. That way, there's still that classic mode that is kept simple and basic for old, more serious fans of the series, and everybody else can just go crazy with everything else. Maybe Treyarch could just create a mix of everything. I think that would do a pretty good job of pleasing everybody.

In a way this is what I'm hoping for. Then everyone will be happy

Zombies will be fine, Treyarch have developed this from a little add-on to a game into part of COD and I doubt they are going to throw it away now.

I also don't think that Zombie "Bosses" will go away, look at Der Riese at WaW, the main strategy was to camp by the third teleporter close to the QR, they have found a way to counter this, although it isn't too popular (I'm not a fan either) it is effective and Treyarch are going to have to take a few risks and some of us won't like it.

I really think they're going to make smaller maps to try and counter training in areas and people won't like this. But this is the name of the game, survival, you survive under whatever circumstances are presented to you and see how far you can go. All of these things we hate have made that map unique making us enjoy or despise that map more, Treyarch have never failed to put a challenge in front of us and they won't fail!!

About the more is better thing I'm not sure what they mean by this, yes there is going to be more characters and zombies, possibly more maps but it depends on how Treyarch have approached this. Anyway, there is a zombie killer in all of us. I say no matter what happens we will still enjoy zombies for what it is BOII has been hyped amazingly and will hopefully be better than all previous games put together.

I believe this deserves some brains [brains]

Thank You!!!!!!! :D

[FatedTitan]

Before I start, I want to say the Verruckt is one of my top 2 maps. But guys, if you switched the released on the maps(made WaW come out when the Black Ops maps came out and vice versa) then you would all say that the maps that are from WaW suck except Der Riese. It's all timing. Yes, the WaW maps brought new things to the game such as teleporting and PaPing and secret songs. But what next?

We live in a consumer culture where we always want the next best thing. The same applies for zombies. Yes we started with Nacht and had nothing. Then they added perks in Verruckt. Then a radio in SNN. Then a ton for Der Riese. They had to keep moving forward, making the game bigger and better. People wanted a different round than dogs, so they gave you monkeys. People wanted a boss round, so they gave you George(though I do believe he was implemented incorrectly). Then people complained so they toned it down a bit and gave you two different types of bosses in a Shrieker and Napalm zombie. Both of those were great and could be used for your benefit, especially the Napalm zombie being a walking fire trap. Then Moon came and they wanted another boss type enemy, but they gave him massively weaker health than George and created a way for you to one shot him(QED).

Things move forward. Maps get bigger and better. Moon is my favorite map of any. It has a ton of diversity. I find it humorous that people same DR was the greatest map because you could camp, run circles, everything. It had diversity. Well so does Moon. I understand getting Jug takes coordination. But you can't argue both ways. One second you say you love Shangri-la because it takes coordination, but then you say you hate Moon because it takes coordination. That makes no sense. Yes, I understand there's a difference because in one Jug is not readily available, but it's not hard to get. And if you do the EE, which isn't that hard if you know what you're doing, you don't have to worry about Jug.

They did a lot with Moon that people begged for. Solo leaderboard. A new way to get around the map(Biodome booster pads). A way to make upgrading wall weapons worth it(hacker). An epic EE. Did the oxygen levels get annoying? Sure, but you can get to everywhere you need to go without a mask if you go straight there. It's called a challenge. You say you want a challenge, then you get mad when they add it. Hacker was a great add on to the map. It made it where I would actually upgrade a wall gun because I got my money back. It also gave us a way to share points. It also let us have the ability to get a max ammo, especially when there wasn't a dog round or monkey round.

Moon brought many great things to the game. I don't know if we'll see hacker again, but that was one of the best. Everyone's entitled to their opinion and so far I've only seen the bashing of later maps, which, in my opinion, is quite unjustified. Because if the Black Ops maps had come first, you'd think the other ones sucked.

[killerussian]

Note- if you want to skip this next paragraph, simply read what is in bold on the bottom of this post. It basically sums everything up...I understand all your concerns. Most of us were first attracted to Zombies for it's simplicity. The concept was so miniscule that we became quickly addicted to one rule that existed, survive!

But by doing the same thing over and over again players can become bored, but we didn't. We continued to do the same cumbersome routine on the same maps. Treyarch isn't just ditching this gameplay that we have become to accustomed to, they're just making new ones to test the waters with. With these new possibly objective bases modes- maps we used to strongly dislike could possibly become our new favorite map! (not saying old maps will be making some type of return) These new game modes won't just give us new rules, there'll be completely new guidelines and standards that we'll have to get used, but that can end up being really cool!

Many people hated Five, but say there is a new mode that starts you off with the power on, and the initial points given is say 5000, players could now possibly have a whole lotta fun now instead of waiting 20 minutes to start rolling out the big stuff in normal mode.

Do you see where i'm coming from here?

They ARE keeping the classic zombie mode.

They ARE creating new zombie modes that you DON'T HAVE TO PLAY.

The option is there for players who want to play something that's not so cut and dry. THAT'S IT.

[xXExpertCoahXx]

Bottom line is that the 8 player multiplayer version of zombies is going to be not part of the original story. Story mode for zombies is going to be traditional 4 player coop. In that 4 player coop I'm sure we will have maps going back to the WaW days.

[Tom852]

Why are people always afraid of changes?

[bad karma]

Why are people always afraid of changes?

Humans as a whole are afraid of change.

That's just a fact, not a critisism.

But I wish that people who didn't like what may or may not happen with a game mode that hasn't even been announced yet would keep their text boxes empty.

No offense.

[xXExpertCoahXx]

Why are people always afraid of changes?

Humans as a whole are afraid of change.

That's just a fact, not a critisism.

But I wish that people who didn't like what may or may not happen with a game mode that hasn't even been announced yet would keep their text boxes empty.

No offense.

Dang. That was awesome! [brains]

[shirtlesservice]

Why are people always afraid of changes?

Humans as a whole are afraid of change.

That's just a fact, not a critisism.

Put that in Doggy's thread :D

[fenny]

I think that as long as a map as an unique item in it, and its fun to use, then the map as a whole will be fun no matter what.

For example; Shi no Numa with the Wunderwaffe, Der Riese with the Monkey Bombs, Kino with the Thundergun, Five with the Winters Howl, Acension with the Gersch Device + Matryoshka Dolls, Shangri la with the 31-79 JGb215, Call of the Dead with the Scavenger + V-R11 and Moon with QED + Wave Gun.

All of these maps where made special with these weapons, if you wanted to use a certain weapon you'd play this map etc etc. So as long as there are unique weapons in each map and they are not useless to use *cough* V-R11 *cough* we are all gonna play them all :)

[Kill_All_Monkeys]

You are all very intelligent people, just thought I would say that.

[bad karma]

Why are people always afraid of changes?

Humans as a whole are afraid of change.

That's just a fact, not a critisism.

But I wish that people who didn't like what may or may not happen with a game mode that hasn't even been announced yet would keep their text boxes empty.

No offense.

Dang. That was awesome! [brains]

Um, Am I reading this right? Did someone actually think that something I wrote was awesome? Am I dreaming? Thanks!!!!!!

[Alter72]

If anyone talks about more it should by the guy with the MOAR KRABS avatar.

Señior reverend captain Alter72 P.H.D. M.S.G. L.O.L. B.B.Q. W.T.F.

MOARologist

Okay, let's start out with an analogy.

Halo = Normal person that lacks intelligence and is weak in mind.

Battlefield = Super snobby elitist who thinks he's superior to everyone else and a total dibs**t

Fallout = Psycopath wearing Oblivion's skin draped around his body whom he killed with a cattle prod.

Cod = 1000 pound man who has to be lifted out of his house with a forklift and rolls around trying to flatten the other 3 who are pretty much innocent.

Is MOAR better? Let's wait 6 months and see.

I'm just waiting to see the flack I get from those comparisons. All I'm saying is you probbably have better things to do than zealously defend battlefield.

[kea83]

8 player zombies is all speculation. I mean, We heard that zombies is now going to run on the MP engine. Then someone plucks the number 8 out of their ass saying that the game can now handle this many players... Rumors made up with no facts! Someone prove me wrong with a link to a TREYARCH interview saying 8 players- not just some shitty game news site spreading non factual rumors.

Example: this site has the rumor heading of supposed "8 players" then never quotes Treyarch actually saying it because they didn't. It shows that people just take things as fact too easy. Only says its CAPABLE of more zombies/players, not saying this actually is in the game.

http://www.charlieintel.com/2012/05/04/ ... yer-co-op/

I haven't really heard anyone speak about the possible opportunities from running on this engine. (Previously was the SP engine.)

I wonder and hope that they could possibly add MORE things like more zombies in the game at once, or better stat tracking like lifetime zombie kills, revives, rounds beaten. Even things like a rank for zombies/prestige/emblems etc.

My above ideas are only speculation too but I have faith Treyarh will deliver. We need to stop hearing rumors and then freak out by assuming they are fact.

Cheers

[xXExpertCoahXx]

I think that as long as a map as an unique item in it, and its fun to use, then the map as a whole will be fun no matter what.

For example; Shi no Numa with the Wunderwaffe, Der Riese with the Monkey Bombs, Kino with the Thundergun, Five with the Winters Howl, Acension with the Gersch Device + Matryoshka Dolls, Shangri la with the 31-79 JGb215, Call of the Dead with the Scavenger + V-R11 and Moon with QED + Wave Gun.

All of these maps where made special with these weapons, if you wanted to use a certain weapon you'd play this map etc etc. So as long as there are unique weapons in each map and they are not useless to use *cough* V-R11 *cough* we are all gonna play them all

The Vrill is actually one of the best guns on COTD if used properly. When upgraded and fired upon a teammate the teammate you shot has 30 second insta-kill and invincibility. Amazing when trapped in tight corners. Depends on if the person your playing with knows what the hell he's doing.