Black Ops Reflection: How much cheating is acceptable?

[Mr. Jay]

Hi, I'm Jay, if you are not sure who I am. (Just for you Undead.)

With Black Ops 2 just around the corner, we could reflect back on Black Ops 1 and appreciate what it has done for us in the last two years or so.

One thing spiralled out of control during the tenure of black ops is the leaderboards and world records. Friends compete among themselves with their respective high round co-op records. With that said, how much cheating is acceptable?

-During a few of my Five records I have used the window glitch to avoid the thief and/or to take a break. Not a major part of the process but may have contributed in a big way.

-Many failed attempts with quality friends on Verruckt yielded poor results, one game with Way2g00 reached 27 and shattered previous highs on points and kills. Although my contribution was on par with rest of the group, his presence and guidance was the difference maker.

-On COTD playing with one other random I had 0 down until 28. Never once needed help from the random aside from occasional door openings and maybe divided George's attention. Went down on 28 and never revived, upon spectating found out my running mate (a random) was doing a invincibility glitch by the MP40. Although I had more than equal share of kills and never needed his help, arguments could have been made that I never had to account for the random thus making the game easier.

-My Moon high round was not "true co-op". With two PS3s I played the game with myself dying beginning of each round. Almost like solo with the exception of no reviving if downed.

-Was in a game with 3 PS friends on Ascension. By round 30 was too tired to continue, but being the host to three friends could not simply end the game. Notified them of my intentions of leaving the system on for their sakes but headed to bed. Woke up 4 hours later found them still playing, already on round 36. Resumed the game (a monkey round) on 37 and downed without sufficient weapons. Never revived and died beginning of 38. The game end with all three dying on 38. Until leaving on 30 I had far more kills, all 10 revives, and twice clutched the rounds. I did not earn my 38 on Ascension, but I was a major reason why we made it to round 30 even without the ThunderGun. Did I earn it? No, but just as deserving as any of them.

Do you have any asterisks on your co-op records? Do you feel I have earned mine? How much cheating is acceptable?

Thanks for reading.

[perfectlemonade]

Window glitching to take a break is, in my opinion, totally okay. It is designed as a replacement for the pause function in solo, and since there is no such thing as that in co op, why should co op players be penalized by having to endure incredibly high rounds without breaks? I've only been to 50, but I had 1 down that game and I am certain that, if my schedule permitted, I could go to whatever round I desired.

There's nothing wrong with carrying players. One could argue that the game is designed to have players carry those that are not as good as them. That's not cheating—that's just having a good gameplan.

But invincibility glitches? Hell no. That one by the 74u on Call of the Dead makes me sick. Whenever I see a random trying to get into it, I just open the door because it is not fair.

There is one that I am really conflicted about, though. And that is glitching the astronaut. He is manageable only until he starts to moonwalk, which is a glitch itself. It's fighting fire with fire. But I dunno. It seems wrong.

Great thread as usual Jay. ;)

[TheDunbarian]

It's funny this should come up. Just earlier today, I was in a game with randoms on Call of the Dead. This one guy was trying to do a glitch I had never seen before. At the end of the ship, by Mule Kick, he would do a glitch where he would get on top of the crates and be unreachable by zombies. The other two would go down right beneath him and he would do nothing, leaving only me to revive them. At the end of each round, he would leave a crawler so that he could go buy ammo, perks, etc. I retaliated by killing the crawlers before he could get back into the glitch, which finally caused him to rage quit at round 16.

I don't tolerate cheating. Taking a break using that glitch on "Five", sure, that's alright. But cheating simply to get to a higher round, that's where I draw the line.

[TheSlushTurtle]

No.glitching for breaks is not alright.

I'll tell you how to take a break.

Cook a grenade at a zombies feet.

He will be a crawler.

There's your break.

:)

[way2g00d]

No.glitching for breaks is not alright.

I'll tell you how to take a break.

Cook a grenade at a zombies feet.

He will be a crawler.

There's your break.

corry, when was the last time you played zombies. :)

[Reddonkeyham]

.

But invincibility glitches? Hell no. That one by the 74u on Call of the Dead makes me sick. Whenever I see a random trying to get into it, I just open the door because it is not fair.

I totally agree in the past few months the amount glitches i have seen my people in amazes me. The Ak is the only one where you can get them out of the glitch. I also will open the door to stop doing that glitch but i tend to only do it when they start stealing my kills/ or breaking up a train i may have on the go.

I've seen two different glitches at the ice slide, 1 by Mule kick, 1 by MP 40, 1 at power, 2 at start. Its becoming more than a nuisance now, it means near enough every game i get some kid, running straight to the glitch and stealing all the kills and pissing of George on every given momemnt.

[TheSlushTurtle]

No.glitching for breaks is not alright.

I'll tell you how to take a break.

Cook a grenade at a zombies feet.

He will be a crawler.

There's your break.

corry, when was the last time you played zombies.

Way, when was the last time you played PS3 zombies? 8-)

[shirtlesservice]

Cheating for fun = ok

Cheating to keep a game going = kind of a grey area...

Cheating for a high round = not ok

Cheating to troll?

Too funny to ignore ;)

[TheSlushTurtle]

Cheating for fun = ok

Oh yeah cheating is sooo fun.

[monkeedeeler]

.. i do not like cheats...never searched for glitches...i do not play with people who cheat..

it kinda takes the fun out of the game..

[Tom852]

I think we've talked about this many times.

Well, there is always a grey area.

Basically, everybody should have the same basis. It cannot be, that one coop group has an option to pause their game, whereas the other group has to play all the game straight forward. So group 1 can go to sleep and everything, group 2 can't. This is just not fair. However, if you work in shifts and say one dude doesn't play for 8h and just dies all the time, he also experiences the consequences, that's not cheating. But cheating would be if just both players can do nothing without dying, without ending the game.

Now, for me as PC player, this topic is quite sensitive. Cause you know, we can experiment in god mode and stuff and cheat the shit out of it. But I think, this is absolutely ok for research (or demonstration in videos). I mean, I've still done âll the records absolutely legit. All the godmode was used in advance, to find escape paths and stuff. But obviously, many people already think at this point, that cheating once is cheating always cause of having an advantage in testing options.

As I say always, everybody has a little bit of another interpretation of the grey zone. Some think this is already cheating, whereas others say it's still legit. I guess that stuff will go on as it is.

[Chopper]

I think this is kind of a null point and argument really.

Cheating is doing something which gives you an unfair advantage.

If you happen to cheat and claim that you haven't, you are clearly a douche bag.

If you cheat and admit it, what exactly is the problem?

You aren't claiming anything, so what's the problem.

This is pretty simple stuff, and I do feel for guys like Tom and Super, who simply from admitting to having used cheats have some kind of stigma attached to them.

Whether these 2 guys have used cheats or not is pretty irrelevant compared to what their guides and videos have provided for the community.

People just love to act slightly vigilantly, probably to make up for living shit deep in their Mum's basement surrounded by her underwear and tissues. Any chance they can get to bitch and prattle on the internet, they take. Generally with a self righteousness that sorely doesn't fit their actual way of life.

I see the guys who still have a massive issue with the whole cheating thing to live firmly in this category.

[Mr. Jay]

People just love to act slightly vigilantly, probably to make up for living shit deep in their Mum's basement surrounded by her underwear and tissues. Any chance they can get to bitch and prattle on the internet, they take. Generally with a self righteousness that sorely doesn't fit their actual way of life.

I see the guys who still have a massive issue with the whole cheating thing to live firmly in this category.

Darn it Chopper, no one is to know about my living conditions! To be fair her basement is decently decked out, and I'm to receive new toilet seat covers for Christmas.

I claim certain achievements to compete with my peers. Although on a much smaller scale than you and the other Bull Dogs, we can be competitive and as victorious in claiming superiority.

At the end of the day, anyone claiming more than they actually achieved could be considered "cheating". The question is, how much advantage is cheating?

BTW, why aren't rest of the Bull Dogs members of CODZ? If we were to keep and maintain a challenge leaderboard, would that be enough attraction for them to participate?

[way2g00d]

You aren't claiming anything, so what's the problem.

That's a million dollar quote right there people. Read this and grow the fukk up. :|

[perfectlemonade]

BTW, why aren't rest of the Bull Dogs members of CODZ? If we were to keep and maintain a challenge leaderboard, would that be enough attraction for them to participate?

I agree with this. They really need to get over here. :D

[Mr. Jay]

You aren't claiming anything, so what's the problem.

That's a million dollar quote right there people. Read this and grow the fukk up. :|

I disagree 100%. So unless a cheater is claiming world records he is shall be left alone? What if he gets better and influence others to glitch? What if he becomes elite and glitch just enough to claim a world record or two?

I teach and enforce my kids to be honest. Chances are liars are repeat offenders if they are not discouraged. If you are lenient toward glitching then fine. If you are tough against glitching also fine, but there is no case to case scenarios.

If I don't steal from you then stealing is ok???

[way2g00d]

You aren't claiming anything,

Translation: you play for the fun of it. You don't claim that you have a legit round 50 or round 200 or world record.

[Chopper]

It gets pretty complex there Jay, and you know it mate

We are talking about people cheating openly, admitting it, and using it for whatever reason they choose too. To have fun, explore, strategise etc.

In a video game.

Real life is of course extremely different.

The line about liars.....this is the biggest issue, and I hope where you are actually really coming from Jay.

Don't lie people. Lying is almost never good, although white lies are almost essential in any relationship, they are pretty easy to justify.

The big whoppers though, are no no's.

So if someone cheats and admits it, they aren't lying in any way, shape or form.

If they want to glitch to have fun, I don't care.

[MysteryMachineX]

Don't lie people. Lying is almost never good, although white lies are almost essential in any relationship, they are pretty easy to justify.

I'd just like to emphasize almost. The female that is close to me and myself are both brutally honest people, in that way we have a lot in common. We'll just chat about anything that comes to our mind. We call it 100% honesty. I find it to be just so awesome to say whatever I think and she be okay with it, and for her to say whatever she wants, because I'll be okay with it. Of course this doesn't work with just anyone. : /

As for the idea with cheating, I agree with ChopperNator. It all comes down to lying. Cheat, whatever. Lie, shame on you. Although I do think cheating can cause other problems as well, such as trying to play a random match where all the other players are trying to cheat. This can (A) pressure you to cheat, ( make your game harder if you don't cheat, or © suck the fun out of the game. In those games, I'd try to persist so I could revive the others when their glitch failed them.

[Tom852]

Well, comparing cheating with real-life scamming is a bit inflated.

But I like the differentiation between cheating (e.g. claiming a not legit record) and cheating (find out the most awesome strategy by using cheats).

I think that is really important. I hope that the 2nd way of cheating is and will be accepted by the majority, cause it just helps everybody.

[Electric Jesus]

Honestly the most cheating I ever do now is the dog glitch on the stage on kino der toten. I hardly even do that though because there is no real need, and it's fun to run around doing the Stevie griffin laugh like syndicate saying "oohehehehehe little puppies hehehehehe"

I got into a lobby with glitches who went out of map in Verrückt in such a way that I had to stay in the map. I endured like ten rounds of dying and not being revived due to lack of juggernog and available partners, so I have vowed to wish that boredom upon nobody in the future. It sucked. A LOT. :cry:

I rare go for high rounds, but when I do, I NEVER cheat. If it is just a barrier glitch I don't call anyone on it, but anything like getting out of the map or something like that, no way. Major no-no.

[MysteryMachineX]

Honestly the most cheating I ever do now is the dog glitch on the stage on kino der toten. I hardly even do that though because there is no real need, and it's fun to run around doing the Stevie griffin laugh like syndicate saying "oohehehehehe little puppies hehehehehe"

I got into a lobby with glitches who went out of map in Verrückt in such a way that I had to stay in the map. I endured like ten rounds of dying and not being revived due to lack of juggernog and available partners, so I have vowed to wish that boredom upon nobody in the future. It sucked. A LOT. :cry:

I rare go for high rounds, but when I do, I NEVER cheat. If it is just a barrier glitch I don't call anyone on it, but anything like getting out of the map or something like that, no way. Major no-no.

Barrier glitches and out-of-the-map glitches are on the same plane. They're equally bad. They save the players until they run out of ammo. When they try to get more, they die. That last part is funny to watch.

[Shooter]

Well, comparing cheating with real-life scamming is a bit inflated.

But I like the differentiation between cheating (e.g. claiming a not legit record) and cheating (find out the most awesome strategy by using cheats).

I think that is really important. I hope that the 2nd way of cheating is and will be accepted by the majority, cause it just helps everybody.

Agreed. I think the whole thing when using these "cheats" and going for world records is the timing in which you tell the public that you use them. If you tell everyone very early on "Yeah, I use the "cheats" to develop a good strategy beforehand" then it's not really a big deal, more power to you.

[tab][/tab]I don't really see this as cheating though, so long as the final recorded match is a normal game. The problems arise when, after a player obtains multiple world records, evidence surfaces that he had access to these "cheats" and the player made no prior acknowledgement that he uses them. Even if it's clear they're capable of going 100+ rounds, people will still question in it regardless. If you're gonna develop your strategies using this method to go for world records, you should be open about it from the beginning, otherwise it's just bound to cause problems down the line.

[MysteryMachineX]

Well, comparing cheating with real-life scamming is a bit inflated.

But I like the differentiation between cheating (e.g. claiming a not legit record) and cheating (find out the most awesome strategy by using cheats).

I think that is really important. I hope that the 2nd way of cheating is and will be accepted by the majority, cause it just helps everybody.

Agreed. I think the whole thing when using these "cheats" and going for world records is the timing in which you tell the public that you use them. If you tell everyone very early on "Yeah, I use the "cheats" to develop a good strategy beforehand" then it's not really a big deal, more power to you.

[tab][/tab]I don't really see this as cheating though, so long as the final recorded match is a normal game. The problems arise when, after a player obtains multiple world records, evidence surfaces that he had access to these "cheats" and the player made no prior acknowledgement that he uses them. Even if it's clear they're capable of going 100+ rounds, people will still question in it regardless. If you're gonna develop your strategies using this method to go for world records, you should be open about it from the beginning, otherwise it's just bound to cause problems down the line.

I disagree. If I was a world record player, why should I tell you that I know how to cheat? How is what I do in my spare time any of your business? I claim a world record, legitimately, and that is that. This is why famous people are always hit harder by things. Honestly this reminds me of McCarthyism. "Oppenheimer was once in the Communist Party?! Why didn't he mention it to us sooner?" I know the analogy has flaws, but still.

[TheDunbarian]

Well, comparing cheating with real-life scamming is a bit inflated.

But I like the differentiation between cheating (e.g. claiming a not legit record) and cheating (find out the most awesome strategy by using cheats).

I think that is really important. I hope that the 2nd way of cheating is and will be accepted by the majority, cause it just helps everybody.

Agreed. I think the whole thing when using these "cheats" and going for world records is the timing in which you tell the public that you use them. If you tell everyone very early on "Yeah, I use the "cheats" to develop a good strategy beforehand" then it's not really a big deal, more power to you.

[tab][/tab]I don't really see this as cheating though, so long as the final recorded match is a normal game. The problems arise when, after a player obtains multiple world records, evidence surfaces that he had access to these "cheats" and the player made no prior acknowledgement that he uses them. Even if it's clear they're capable of going 100+ rounds, people will still question in it regardless. If you're gonna develop your strategies using this method to go for world records, you should be open about it from the beginning, otherwise it's just bound to cause problems down the line.

I disagree. If I was a world record player, why should I tell you that I know how to cheat? How is what I do in my spare time any of your business? I claim a world record, legitimately, and that is that. This is why famous people are always hit harder by things. Honestly this reminds me of McCarthyism. "Oppenheimer was once in the Communist Party?! Why didn't he mention it to us sooner?" I know the analogy has flaws, but still.

I have a feeling you guys are talking about someone very specific...

I agree with Murder though. If the world record games are recorded in full and cannot be proven illegitimate, then I don't see how anyone could have doubts about that player's records.