Denizens Started off as an Experiment, Proof in the Map

[optimus555]

Today playing Tranzit I heard strange clicking noises coming from the Pipes in the pack a punch room. Specifically in the middle corner and in the window at the end of the hall to the right where these pipes are located.

I have a feeling that the jet gun has the capability to heat up more than just the obelisk. What if we were to heat up the pipes (with the red circular crank on them) down in the Pack a punch room with the Jet gun?

Also, on the window which is closest to the entrance there is a biohazard sticker. I got to looking around the Pack a punch room and noticed that, this place was used to store Denizens. (Those little facehuggers we all fucking hate).

If you take a look, there are small cages lining the pack a punch room everywhere when you first walk in. They must of been keeping them down there doing experiments of some sort. If you look at the cages on the wall infront of you when you go down into the pack a punch room, youll see that one of the denziens clawed through the wall that his cage was on and infiltrated the testing chamber inside the first window.

The question is, were the denizens there before...or were they created by this laboratory? If you look around the room there are bio hazardous chemical barrels and other equipment.

Anyway, just trying to progress things further as theres not a lot of new information out there currently.

-Optimus

[Tac]

"One of them has escaped to breed!" - Marlton in Green Run

The Denizens escaped to breed and repopulate in Hanford, I assume.

[optimus555]

So you think that they were created by a branch of possibly group 935? Just like those exploding gas zombies in black ops 1 and then they lead an outbreak into the town? Because on the other hand the problem could of preexisted and therefore they may have been trying to find a weakness to kill them.

[Necrojon]

"One of them has escaped to breed!" - Marlton in Green Run

The Denizens escaped to breed and repopulate in Hanford, I assume.

That's a very interesting quote. This could possible mean Marlton was involved in the testing in this location. That would explain why this place is so familiar to him, may even be proof that he was working for the government (or maybe secret groups) before he went to Jack as Flats and was banished there after the Nuketown nuke originally went off.

This could also explain why he says the Avogadro quote in the bunker, because he went to the test site in Green Run and was involved in both of the experiments. What a perfect place to do secret tests to, a small population area with secret vaults near the power station, that while in there could open up the other secret location for the second lab.

It's all really questionable I want to know more of who is working in this location and the idea that you brought up that the Denizens came from the lab is genius, good job on that. Could someone get up a pic of the location that we're talking about with the pipe, because I'm greatly curious on this subject.

[Tac]

So you think that they were created by a branch of possibly group 935? Just like those exploding gas zombies in black ops 1 and then they lead an outbreak into the town? Because on the other hand the problem could of preexisted and therefore they may have been trying to find a weakness to kill them.

I definitely think they were genetically engineered. If not that, overexposed to the elements released in the actual Green Run in 1949. I don't think they are zombies, as they don't have the glowing eyes. Just like how the NOVA crawlers aren't Zombies by our definition, since they have no Element 115 inside them.

That's a very interesting quote. This could possible mean Marlton was involved in the testing in this location. That would explain why this place is so familiar to him, may even be proof that he was working for the government (or maybe secret groups) before he went to Jack as Flats and was banished there after the Nuketown nuke originally went off.

I don't think the place is all that familiar to him, since all the quotes I can find about him "seeing that before" was when he got on the bus after Town and took it around again through the cycle of stops.

This could also explain why he says the Avogadro quote in the bunker, because he went to the test site in Green Run and was involved in both of the experiments. What a perfect place to do secret tests to, a small population area with secret vaults near the power station, that while in there could open up the other secret location for the second lab.

Are you referring to his quote about amperes? I feel like that may have been from his electronics shorting out from the nuke and shocking him? I can't tell for sure, I need to look into that more.

[Triple Ex]

YOU may hate them,Optimus,bat that doesn't mean we all do. Getting sick and tired of everyone complaining about the Denizens and The Forest

At this point I believe the Denizens are mutated monkeys. (more on that later) These cages look about the size to store a monkey while tests are being administered, right?

The "escaped to breed" and the fact that the wall was torn through into another room mesh quite nicely. The monkeys that were being experimented on escaped into the Forest? (Used as their habitat due to the fact that it is about as close to their native jungles as they would be able to find)

From there they could have been mutated further by,or the experiments done to them reacted to, the 115 in the nukes that spread throughout the world and The Forest.

Most likely they burrowed under the ground to escape the radiation/explosions.

I'm coming up with this as I write it.

Uuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmm....

The location where they were being held being underground may have something to do with the Portals. Perhaps they actually started to burrow through the ground, creating a vast tunnel system through the Forest. (large eyes are good for underground-dwelling creatures) Perhaps once they latch onto us, and we bring them to a street light, uuuummm,maybe they are blinded by it/their large eyes can't take the lightand they burrow under the ground,back into their tunnels.

This would explain why they only come above ground in the Fog, where there are no bright lights and the light from the sun is obscured.

Perhaps these portals are linked into the Tunnel system these creatures have created, and you are sent through them by the portals? The reason you are teleported/endupin a random location..... ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......

........

......

Maybe some kind of energy leaking through the earth? Something to do with Agartha? Or maybe just the 115doing crazy stuff?

I dunno. [/mindlessrambling]

[optimus555]

Wow triple, dude that was a pretty brilliant ramble. I'd be willing to bet that at least 50% of that is spot on.

EDIT - If you look at the place where they escaped, like the cages down in Pack a punch room...there is a hole they scratched out between two cages. It is likely that two of them escaped, and that's how they spread the population. Marlton even comments on a denizen retreating into the fog to breed (quoted in a previous post).

[Triple Ex]

As my sig states,I will be looking into this. Expect something soon. Of course,that will only happen if I can get to Juggernog without getting double hit in the most ridiculous ways. (solo is weird for me)

[InfestLithium]

At this point I believe the Denizens are mutated monkeys. (more on that later) These cages look about the size to store a monkey while tests are being administered, right?

I'd be willing to put all my money in the bank into this theory. They do appear to have tails (regardless if they're short or not), and certainly sound like a monkey. Every time I see the cages, I automatically think back to BO in both Five and the research lab in Campaign (where you play as Mason killing Steiner/Hudson attempting to stop Mason). These cages had monkeys as well, and I'd be damned if they were somehow linked together [honestly I have better faith in the Five research lab, seeing as Five is also based in America unlike the other maps excluding NML].

The "escaped to breed" and the fact that the wall was torn through into another room mesh quite nicely. The monkeys that were being experimented on escaped into the Forest? (Used as their habitat due to the fact that it is about as close to their native jungles as they would be able to find)

From there they could have been mutated further by,or the experiments done to them reacted to, the 115 in the nukes that spread throughout the world and The Forest.

Most likely they burrowed under the ground to escape the radiation/explosions.

The location where they were being held being underground may have something to do with the Portals. Perhaps they actually started to burrow through the ground, creating a vast tunnel system through the Forest. (large eyes are good for underground-dwelling creatures) Perhaps once they latch onto us, and we bring them to a street light, uuuummm,maybe they are blinded by it/their large eyes can't take the lightand they burrow under the ground,back into their tunnels.

This would explain why they only come above ground in the Fog, where there are no bright lights and the light from the sun is obscured.

Again, this also makes clear sense to me. They appear not only in the forest areas, but darker areas like the cornfields, tunnel, and bridge.

Hanford, Washington is mainly an agricultural community. Around 1943, the area depopulated to form what was known as the Hanford Site, which was a key factor in the Manhattan Project. It was a nuclear production facility that actually had tested plutonium for the first nuclear bomb that would soon be used over Nagasaki. All this information is already under a different thread that I can't seem to find.

But moving onto the point I'm driving across...the atmosphere in which Hanford is located in is a perfect choice of settlement for the monkeys. The exposed plutonium plus whatever radioactive elements (possibly including 115 from the missiles) supports your claim. Animal instinct is also to survive, so these monkeys are well aware of the damages caused by radiation and seem to prefer avoiding the surface unless feeling endangered [in this case, our crew]. You're spot on.

The lights may be "harmful" to them for a good reason. Like you said, their eyes have adapted to the darkness and cannot withstand the amount of light. Notice how if you go under the a streetlight that is not lit, the Denizens will not create a portal. Yet once the light shines on, they scramble to burrow themselves underground. This remains true when you enter specific areas with enough light surrounding it (i.e. Bus Stops). Any creature that has adapted to the darkness underground (both realistic and fictional) has portrayed characteristics of "fearing" the light from the surface if it too much exposure for them to handle. Even the human eye is keen to this detail. Stay in a dark room for too long and go outside where the Sun is shining brightly. Your eyes will begin to squint and you pretty much are blinded for a couple of minutes.

Perhaps these portals are linked into the Tunnel system these creatures have created, and you are sent through them by the portals? The reason you are teleported/endupin a random location..... ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......

Maybe some kind of energy leaking through the earth? Something to do with Agartha? Or maybe just the 115doing crazy stuff?

As for the underground system...I have no idea whatsoever. The radioactive abilities of 115 still remain fully unclear, however, is known to be used a fuel source for teleporters. We have seen, experimented, and proven this since WaW. If a ballistic missile filled with 115 crashes into the Earth, it spreads the radioactivity all across the land. These radioactive elements (even in ground) still disperse throughout the Earth. I guess it's safe to theorize that 115 is underground.

Even with that assertion, our crew can easily jump into a teleporter on the surface. I have a feeling that the Denizen digs down quicker and deeper than usual, thus releasing 115 to be exposed out into the hole they just made. As a result, a portal is made. Think of digging through wet sand on the beach where the tide closes. If you dig deep enough, you can actually witness water somehow exposing itself in the hole (well, at least when I dug in the sand as a kid). But that would have to mean an ass-load of 115 to make a teleporter.

Oh wait, we can do it.

Generated light from the given streetlight + massive exposure of 115 both underground and in air due to missiles infused with them + space for 115 to be extracted (hole) = portal.

Of course, this idea came completely out of my ass, so I could be as far as -100% correct. But an idea is an idea.

[Triple Ex]

The Denizens doin fact have tails. Another thing I would like topoint out is the fct that Treyarch seem to want to make it really obvious that "THESE. THINGS. LIVE. UNDERGROUND."

If you notice, they spawn from the ground with an audible sound. Burrowing under the streetlights, but get this. If you bring them to a stop, they'll run away, and actually burrow back under the ground. With the same animation as if they were creating a portal.

I challenge anyone to come up with a counter-point to my Tunnel system theory.

Still, I figuredout what the Denizens were! I win!

[optimus555]

Generated light from the given streetlight + massive exposure of 115 both underground and in air due to missiles infused with them + space for 115 to be extracted (hole) = portal.

I'd be willing to bet there's some theoretical reaction going on between the green light from the "streetlights" and the 115 element unearthed from the ground. Good write up, the question now is really why where they experimenting on these monkeys. The textures and structure of the pack a punch room (Denizen lab) is obviously the same as the Power station bunker. Do these two research initiatives have any connection?

Personally, I can't think of anything at the moment. Then again it is 1 AM.

-Optimus

[Triple Ex]

It is very likely. Perhaps these people were conducting experiments in a lab complex all over Green Run.

Whoever these guys were,though,they were working with dangerous stuff. Capturing and imprisoning Avogadro, animal experimentation, etc.

Animal experimentation is done for a ton of reasons,it's not really worth pondering IMO.My guess is they were testing reactions of elements and weaponry on the monkeys.

TIME FOR A NEW RANT!

Perhaps these people(Imma call them the Green Run Group,not to be confused with the Green Run Gang) found a Pack-a-punch machine, and...... disassembled it in an attempt to reverse engineer/find out how it works, hence it needing to be built? Perhaps any experiments and tests being done with the Pack-a-Punch may have involved or had something to do with the experiments done to the Denimonkeys.

Maybe at one point they were testing how the weapons were improved by shooting at the monkeys with them or something pedestrian like that. Maybe they were Pack-a-Punching the monkeys or something?(not likely ) Perhaps it was destroyed by the monkeys in some kind of bloody massacre-escape. The room is covered in blood right? (I'llcheck later on Youtube 'cause solo FREAKING HATES ME)

[PINNAZ]

Great links & great theories to all posters.

I'm thinking the same as you InfestLithium

Every time I see the cages, I automatically think back to BO in both Five and the research lab in Campaign (where you play as Mason killing Steiner/Hudson attempting to stop Mason). These cages had monkeys as well, and I'd be damned if they were somehow linked together [honestly I have better faith in the Five research lab, seeing as Five is also based in America unlike the other maps excluding NML].

Perhaps these are the same cages as in Five?

(@ Tac, can you find a pic of the cages on FIVE somewhere? I might have a look at the cages in five)

The "blinded by the light" theory is solid. Once a teleporter is active, they won't go anywhere near it.

This could also explain Marlton's quote about the "scuffing"

[InfestLithium]

I'd be willing to bet there's some theoretical reaction going on between the green light from the "streetlights" and the 115 element unearthed from the ground. Good write up, the question now is really why where they experimenting on these monkeys. The textures and structure of the pack a punch room (Denizen lab) is obviously the same as the Power station bunker. Do these two research initiatives have any connection?

The monkeys were probably being experimented on for the same reason all test subjects exposed to 115: to further the procedure of enhancing the human ability to supernatural state. I can't verify this claim, but why else would there be monkey cages in the PaP room? Monkeys are the best test subjects for experimentation when using human experimentation is rather risky (especially in the United States). Perhaps after the failed experiments in Five, HAARP could have also been utilized to somehow control the monkeys containing 115. Like I said, this is a high-up-in-the-sky theory, so I can be absolutely wrong in so many ways.

Those two research facilities must be related. They are the only lab-oriented areas throughout the whole map, use practically the same textures and structural designs, and let's not forget how powering the door in the power station opens up the PaP room. Even if all else fails, that link of opening a certain door via powering another display how related they are. The connection as to why they would be related minus entry points, I'm not too enlightened on.

The cages in PaP make us presume that monkeys were once stored there (not proven experimented in the same are however). The only problem I see is that it doesn't look like monkeys can be experimented in the power bunker because the only relevant objects there are the computer, power grid, power building (where the semi has crashed into) and the power generator. By the way, we still need to figure out how Avogadro got into that generator...but on topic to the connection.

These two facilities are obviously connected to one another. Maybe there is a passageway linked (not in-game, just theoretically) between the power facility and PaP...?

[Triple Ex]

HAHA! It IS covered in blood!

Perhaps the monkeys were being held there for transportation to another location. Then, one day when a team came in to load and transport the cages,the monkeys (At this point they could have possibly been transformed into Denizens by experimentation at a PREVIOUS location, began to kill anyone who was down there. In all the chaos, some escaped to breed, beginning burrowing out into the world.

Actually, they MUST have been Denizens beforehand,as Monkeys would never start burrowing,they'd find some other way to get out.

WAIT! The PAP lab is extremely well lit. The scientists must have kept it this way to subdue the Denizens and keep them in check. Somehow the power must have been cut,we have to turn it on, right?) (while they were inside, taking them away to a new location) making the room dark, and letting the Denizens go on their rampage.

However, something must have shut down the power plant. I know what you're thinking. "GASP, THE EMP!"

Perhaps. This would mean that all of this happened VERY recently,and that the Denizens had no time to breed, meaning that the ones we find in GR are the original ones in those cages.(There are ALOT of them).

Somaybe something else cut the power.

I'llpiece and organize allof these ramblings and theories together in a thread later.

[optimus555]

My only issue with that is, even when power is off and you cascade down into the Power station - the room is still very bright. When you turn on the power it still radiates the same.

Also in congruence with a previous post you wrote, they probably ended up with the large sensitive eyes after adjusting to their new underground environment.

-Optimus

[Triple Ex]

My only issue with that is, even when power is off and you cascade down into the Power station - the room is still very bright. When you turn on the power it still radiates the same.

Also in congruence with a previous post you wrote, they probably ended up with the large sensitive eyes after adjusting to their new underground environment.

-Optimus

I dunno dude, adaptation is one thing, but evolution takes millions of years. My guess is the large eyes they gained from the experiments/stuff simply aided them and made them more at home underground.Hence them going there at all.

No one has been in the PAP room without power. No one knows if it would have been dark or not. Power could have been cut to that section of the lab only, jolting back into action with the violent energy output of Avogadro being released/turning on the power.

[MegaAfroMan]

Well, if you go in there in theater and rewind to before you turn on the power, I'd be willing to bet the lights are still on. HOWEVER, I think it is definitely a safe assumption that that was done for memory purposes (why waste game resources towards creating an animation for lighting up a room no one should be in before the power turns on anyways) and not to reflect some storyline point.

[InfestLithium]

Last I recalled, you can access PaP with nothing but Turbines. One stationed near the power door, one to open the metal door where you can find the switch, and one to power the PaP once it has been built. You don't need power to be turned on and/or Avogadro to escape.

[Triple Ex]

I believe you do need power to acces the PAP.Prove me wrong.

If that is true, then the power was partially restored AFTER the Denizens escaped.

I can see a scenario with people scrambling in another room like "GET THE POWER BACK ON AND SUBDUE THOSE THINGS!" while they're hearing screaming and dying. But once they get it on, the room is EMPTY...

But still,prove it doesn't need to be turned on first.

[InfestLithium]

I believe you do need power to acces the PAP.Prove me wrong.

If that is true, then the power was partially restored AFTER the Denizens escaped.

I can see a scenario with people scrambling in another room like "GET THE POWER BACK ON AND SUBDUE THOSE THINGS!" while they're hearing screaming and dying. But once they get it on, the room is EMPTY...

But still,prove it doesn't need to be turned on first.

I will!...once I actually get randoms to listen to me, haha. I'll be lucky if they don't leave the PaP room after telling them to stay put.

But back on queue, the idea of monkeys transforming into Denizens in that particular room is not a far fetched one. Light does subdue the Denizens and does turn them into passive little creatures. In this scenario, I'll agree with you about power accidentally going out and them wrecking havoc among the scientists...for now. The place looks really beat up, blood stains covering the walls, debris on the floor. The cages don't look too tarnished (aside the blood stains behind them), so it's safe to say the possibility of them being transported to a new area is quite clear.

EMP shutting off all the power...very nice! That may explain how the power switch disassembled; either via Denizen or the shock output caused a short-circuit. This is why I need Nuketown Zombies so I can reference to it [we are aware some events/details in NT link to Green Run]. But what I can't wrap my head around is that if power was originally on, how did Avogadro get inside the generator if it were to be closed once again? Perhaps a scientist (or whomever was in the facility) became trapped in there to escape the Denizens. Once the EMP went off, it trapped the poor guy in there...that is, until someone turned on the power. Electrical shock happens, and voila - Avogadro!

I have no damn clue about Avogadro, I'm just trying to see how the power bunker relates to Denizens. :|

EDIT: After watching a video, I noticed the barrels that are similar to the containers in Kino. I know they are not the same, but suppose Denizens were transported safely via those containers?

[Triple Ex]

Avogadro is George after he decided to Digivolve.

I've honestly never gotten him escaping after you turn the power ON. Makes no sense. Perhaps the scientists had a way to keep him imprisoned within that area (and harnessed the MASSIVE power he must give off) (Aside from the little core we see him in) and without them he is free to roam?

No, the Kino containers aren't Denizens. Face is different and they are too tall. HOWEVER, we will see if these barrels change when those maps are remade and re-released.

[InfestLithium]

Avogadro is George after he decided to Digivolve.

I've honestly never gotten him escaping after you turn the power ON. Makes no sense. Perhaps the scientists had a way to keep him imprisoned within that area (and harnessed the MASSIVE power he must give off) (Aside from the little core we see him in) and without them he is free to roam?

No, the Kino containers aren't Denizens. Face is different and they are too tall. HOWEVER, we will see if these barrels change when those maps are remade and re-released.

How to contain something has feisty as Avogadro, I can't think as to how.

I didn't say they were the same containers or that those specific containers held Denizens; I'm saying the method in which they were used to hold/contain something could have been similar to the Denizens. We see barrels in the PaP room (as well as crates), so it might have been possible to transport them from one area to another in those barrels. I know the ones in Kino are not the same ones in Green Run, nor are the beings inside Kino's containers related to Denizens.

[Tac]

(@ Tac, can you find a pic of the cages on FIVE somewhere? I might have a look at the cages in five)

I'm on board so far with this "blinding-light" theory being the reason they burrow underground.

As for the underground system...I have no idea whatsoever. The radioactive abilities of 115 still remain fully unclear, however, is known to be used a fuel source for teleporters. We have seen, experimented, and proven this since WaW. If a ballistic missile filled with 115 crashes into the Earth, it spreads the radioactivity all across the land. These radioactive elements (even in ground) still disperse throughout the Earth. I guess it's safe to theorize that 115 is underground.

I'm not liking all this talk about Element 115 lol. The Denizen eyes do not glow, similarly to the NOVA6 Crawlers, which I believe does not make them Zombies as we've come to know. In fact, I don't think they have been in contact with any Element 115 at all, just like how the crawlers weren't. As for the missile, I don't see any reason for them to have 115 in them. Maxis is trying to lessen the effect that Dr. Richtofen has among the world and launching nukes with 115 would completely counteract every bit of that.

By the way, we still need to figure out how Avogadro got into that generator.

I don't think he "got into" the generator. He is created artificially, therefore he can be re-created at any time I bet. Because of that, I don't think he just meandered into the generator and they all looked up and saw a lightning man haha. They created him out of nothing, that's how he "got into" the generator in my opinion.

But back on queue, the idea of monkeys transforming into Denizens in that particular room is not a far fetched one. Light does subdue the Denizens and does turn them into passive little creatures. In this scenario, I'll agree with you about power accidentally going out and them wrecking havoc among the scientists...for now. The place looks really beat up, blood stains covering the walls, debris on the floor. The cages don't look too tarnished (aside the blood stains behind them), so it's safe to say the possibility of them being transported to a new area is quite clear.

As of right now, I don't see how any mutation can make a humanoid head and primate body, it just doesn't seem right to me so far. With the crawlers at least, they are the size of small humans and have four legs and some even have ripped jeans if I remember correctly. These just... Idk, they are the size of monkeys with human heads. I want to stick to my idea of genetically engineered for now, until I see something more.

Avogadro is George after he decided to Digivolve.

Are you talking about George, as in Romero? What do you have to back this up, or is it more of an idea you're tossing out?

[InfestLithium]

Okay, then I guess I can rule out the 115 missile idea for now (since you brought up Maxis lessening the magnitude of Richtofen's plan). There would still have to be a reason why 115 is evident in the zombies at least; did it really spread world-wide that quickly? The only known zombies close to Hanford would be Nuketown and NML.

Genetically modified? I can buy that. If they were, however, would that mean that...that these experiments were done on humans? You state that they have rather human-like heads, but the idea of the model originally existing as a human does not comply with the fact that they have tails. I suggested that they were infested with 115 was due to their strange ability to create portals. Had 115 been dispersed among the Earth, the idea of a portal being created as I stated several posts ago could have been plausible. Plus 115 does not exactly render any creature a zombie. Just look at our original crew; they were pretty much successful experiments w/ it, and the teleporters running off of the same element did not turn them into zombies as the first experiment at Der Reise had.

But I guess if we claim that these Denizens were not created by 115, what exactly are they? I still say monkeys because of the monkey cages in the PaP room, and they can resemble Denizens if they have been mutated enough.