Spleens and Cannibals

[deathb4di2h0nor]

There are fundamentally two kinds of cannibalistic social behavior; endocannibalism (eating humans from the same community) and exocannibalism (eating humans from other communities).

A separate ethical distinction can be made to delineate between the practice of killing a human for food (homicidal cannibalism) versus eating the flesh of a person who was already dead (necro-cannibalism).

That being said, I would like to bring up a few points that may lead us down a path of no return. Cannibalism has become quite the topic in zombies as of late. It was always hinted at by Rictofen though. He has been heard saying things like:

"I need your gibs, how can I get them?"

"It's tearing my shins, delicious!"

"I feel the blood in my eyes, I think I have an infection."

"Oooh, His torture was so wonderful, perhaps I can save his appendix."

Oh do you smell the cooked intestine? Delicious!"

You can see them here:

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Who else do we hear talking about cannibalism? That's right! Samuel Stuhlinger.

He has been heard saying things like:

"I need a new gun, and cheese, I need ammo and cheese."

"You don't bite me, I bite you!"

"Man I'm working up an appetite."

"Now you're just making me hungry."

"Bring 'em up, you're lunch meat."

You can see them here:

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All of this leads me to a few questions. Was Rictofen a cannibal as well? If he was, did he do this for a reason, or did he just like the taste? Is this the reason that Samuel can hear Rictofen? Does the cannibal end up with living souls inside them?

A few theories revolving around the Aztecs and cannibalism are as follows:

Michael Harner believed that cannibalism arose due to protein deficiency caused by population pressure (Harner 1977).

Barbara Price suggests that cannibalism was related to the political an military instabilities, demographic conditions, and the economic production and distribution networks which caused a surge of sacrifices (Price 1978).

Michael Winkelman comes to the conclusion after studying various theories, that sacrifice and cannibalism are a reflection of the extreme conditions of the many ecological variables that occurred in the Basin of Mexico (Winkelman 1998).

Stanley M. Garn suggests that cannibalism may have been mainly for ceremonial pleasure (Garn 1979).

Bernard R. Ortiz de Montellano suggests that cannibalism was not due to nutritional needs.It was due to the belief that cannibalism would help the Aztecs commune with the gods (Ortiz de Montellano 1978).

The reason I bring up the Aztecs, is they are one of the oldest tribes to practice cannibalism, so we might as well start there. As you can see, most of the theories revolve around lack of protein and nutrition. Some of the theories revolve around pleasure, and "getting closer to god."

I believe that throughout WaW the original crew was supplied with food. I'm unclear as to where they would find it, and yes I know it is a game and doesn't have to be explained. Bare with me.

By the end of WaW, we notice that the crew is regaining their memory, and start to hate Rictofen. In this time, they could have stocked up on food and supplies, and left Rictofen to fend for himself. Rictofen, starving and insane, turns to zombies for protein and quickly begins to form a plan.

Once Black Ops has begun, we hear references of clear cannibalism, and the doctor sounds completely different than he did in WaW. He is much more crazy and starts showing signs of change.

By the end of Black Ops, he is in control, and the crew helps Maxis, showing they were in fact against Rictofen this entire time.

Now we have Black Ops 2, and Samuel Stuhlinger. This group is expected to have grew up in this world after the nukes hit. They never knew of any governments or rules or socially acceptable behavior. They have no morals. Sam has now started spouting off about cannibalism, leading me to believe that history is repeating itself.

Samuel is the only one that can hear Rictofen, so the rest of the crew will become suspicious, and doubt his every move. Samuel will remain resiliant and could possibly join Rictofen, if not overthrow him.

On a side note: If Samuel did grow up around this new world, and never seen the old one, how would he know about conspiracy theories? My answer would be that cannibalism does actually grant the host access to their prey's memories. Samuel could have came across a CIA agent (homicidal cannibalism), or could have eaten a zombie soldier (necro-cannibalism).

What are your thoughts? I truly am interested. Does cannibalism grant limited access to Aether? So many questions.

[LegitimateRage]

Fantastic theory death, just wondering what your search history is looking like right now haha

yes there are clear similarities between Rich and Stu but maybe that's just cuz richtofen can only talk to Stu? Therefore implanting his thoughts into stulingers mind and making him a cannibal, which would also work with the whole conspiracy thing cuz richtofen was always paranoid and slightly sadistic.

Just remembered, before Richtofens 935 recruitment, wasn't he a crazed doctor, who would torture his victims? I can't remember exactly but did he experiment with cannibalism during his "medical "days?

EDIT: I'll add in there were no tales of separation with the O4, From what i remember Richtofen took them everywhere and didn't venture anywhere on his own, so it's unlikely that Tank, Nikolai and Takeo were left on their own to recover.

[deathb4di2h0nor]

There were no tales of them separating, correct, but it doesn't mean the other three couldn't have gotten supplies behind his back. I could even agree that somehow Rictofen was able to brainwash Samuel, but I feel like my theory still holds. Samuel ate zombies, or through the process of killing them, ingested some blood/flesh, and aquired a taste for it. I like to think that he was hungry, and just ate them though. He has numerous quotes about being hungry, so he obviously wants more.

There has to be something to this. Rictofen and Samuel were both cannibals and Samuel is the only one that can hear Rictofen, so far. Wait a minute.... *mind blown*

You are most likely correct. Through the radio in the farm we hear that Rictofen has contacted other people and turned them on their own people. These people may have the same issues. It still boils down to the fact that either Rictofen has the ability to turn people cannibal, or people who are cannibals can contact him.

[LegitimateRage]

The way i think about it, when richtofen contacts people, he gives them his thoughts and feelings, or to put it better, let's them see into the mind of a deranged,bloodthirsty cannibal. I think stu was sane until he met richtofen. Now richtofen is controlling his mind and makes him crave flesh.

Back to the O4, how could they have gotten supplies behind his back? He was their only source of transportation, he kept them alive and they didn't truly come to realize who rich was until moon so they didn't doubt him. Tak was the only one who was suspicious.

[deathb4di2h0nor]

I see. Well as I said this could be overlooked because it is not a definite thing that they need to eat. This is a game. I suppose Rictofen developed a taste for flesh through killing them and being a little insane. He then contacts others while in Aether and gives them his thoughts and therefor spreads his power. I almost feel like this is how it all started long ago.

The god in this world seems to be Satan or his equivalent. He could have started all of this through cannibalism, and when the people died, he infected them with 115. All zombies think alike, and Rictofen thinks along the same lines:

"Overpower, defeat, kill, and spread."

I believe this small theory will be a big breakthrough. There hasn't been any solid proof of how it all began. Der Reise's description says that this is where it began, but I feel there must be something deeper. If you have questions about why I brought up Lucifer, you should read Faust's thread on the Demon Announcer: Lucifer. I just sent him a PM, I should have a link within a few days or so. Til then I will be searching.

[killallzombies]

I think the quote about cheese from Stu might have been referencing Treasure Island. Where a marooned sailor was obsessed with cheese. Leading him to say "I need ammo, I need ammo and cheese, oh how I love cheese." But that's just my opinion.

I like your theory, it's interesting and has almost no grammatical errors (you don't know how happy it makes me to read a post that doesn't involve the letter "x" in place of "s".)

Also, I'd like to note that Richtofen seemed quite sane until he touched the pyramid on moon, where he begins to "hear the voices" (can be heard in Moon radio) So maybe the forces who control the pyramid (purphaps satan as you said)

wants flesh. You have to kill zombies in front of the pyramid for the moon easter egg. and under the pylon in Green Run.

I have no further questions, I mostly posted this so I could have a bookmark on this thread, so I could see the debates that ensue.

[LegitimateRage]

Am i the only one who remembers richtofens doctor past? He was insane since the start KAZ, the Der Riese incident can tell you that. If you listen to his quotes he does sound deranged constantly. I think the Pyramid was just a tip off the iceberg, the voices tempting his further to do what he's always wanted to do. He despised maxis, he just played a role until he had an instigation to get rid of him.

[deathb4di2h0nor]

The part about him changing once he touched the pyramid, I had completely forgot about. I was referencing the change that occured between WaW and Black Ops. In world at war he was crazy, yes, but nowhere near as crazy as he was in Black Ops. I would almost be willing to say that he made no reference to wanting flesh or needing spleens in Waw. There was definitely a trigger. I know for a fact there was a change there though, because I remember an uproar on this forum, talking about how they ruined Rictofen. I think he began "taste testing" in or after Der Reise, and by Kino, he was full on cannibal.

The pyramid is interesting though. It seems that the pyramid contains all the souls from the zombies killed. The voices are thoughts that the zombies had while human. Samantha/Rictofen is able to control the zombies by being there, but as I said, there is a force bigger than them that owns the souls.

What I mean by this is if no one was in the pyramid, I believe it would still collect souls. Even if no one is in control of the zombies, someone has control.

Back on Topic: What if eating the zombies gives the host the power and denies the pyramid access to those souls. This means that eventually a cannibal in the story-line has the potential to own all the power, instead of control it and lose control of it.

[InfestLithium]

Back on Topic: What if eating the zombies gives the host the power and denies the pyramid access to those souls. This means that eventually a cannibal in the story-line has the potential to own all the power, instead of control it and lose control of it.

I don't exactly think it would work very well; sure, the idea is pretty plausible for the time being. What you must consider is how the souls are absorbed when a zombie is killed. This is directly regarded when you fill up the soul canisters near the MPD on Moon. There's an energy transfer of 115 inside every zombie (hence why they are infected in the first place), so it become released the moment they are killed. Recall that any form of killing gives Richtofen power.

No matter how many you kill, you cannot win this way!

I think Samuel has some kind of...well, appetite for zombies because he is delusional. When you're a conspiracy nutcase, you tend to create absurd comments, emotions, and strange traits. Richtofen speaking to only him doesn't help his case, so he is slowly going more insane over time just as Richtofen did himself. That's why Samuel was chosen; he would be the only one to listen because of his paranoia. Maybe he took a tasty bite out of a zombie before hand?

[deathb4di2h0nor]

But we have never seen Rictofen or Samuel eat a zombie, so of course we haven't seen an energy transfer. I know this whole thing is kind of up in the air at the moment, but I feel there is something to be learned here.

[LegitimateRage]

Now my mind is blowing...

Now we all know the zombies were 935's creation. So... who made the pyramid and what's it's necessity? If 935 intended the zombies to be for an army then why would we need a pyramid?

You gotta remember how they came across this pyramid; accident. Richtofen was working on teleportation (which hitler was fascinated with) and he accidentally got stuck in a non-atmospheric void (Was it the aether?). That's where he stumbled upon the pyramid. He touched it, heard (supposed) voices in his head and now he turns cannibal/sadistic. Now if you're suggesting it was the Devil, then we're conflicting two things that don't go well together; science and religion.

[deathb4di2h0nor]

This game mode has been known to mix the two. Look at the QED and the Tower of Babble. One is the core of science. One is a major aspect of religion. I believe man created the pyramid without knowing what they were getting into.

Kind of like how there was a chance that in real life, while smashing atoms, there was a chance of accidentally creating a black hole. I don't know how true that is but...

Back on Topic: I believe Rictofen had a hand in building the pyramid, as it was most likely meant to be a way of connecting all teleporters and thus offering a solid mode of transportation. In turn, they actually created a gateway to Aether, where Samantha was waiting. Once the final construction was complete and they realized this, Rictofen took off to regroup with the other three.

He then devised his plans and Black Ops unfolded. I believe he was a cannibal before all of this. I believe it was between WaW and Der Reise that he began eating flesh. It was then that his voice changed and his overall persona was altered. The pyramid just over-loaded him with voices he had been hearing all along.

I believe that Lucifer (or his equivalent) is the real controller of this crazy world. Look at Rictofen and Sam as puppeteers. The original crew is the audience, and "Lucifer" is the owner of the whole show. The puppets are his. The world is his. He seems to have little impact on the game-play at all, but hey, that's how religion is right? Faith.

[LegitimateRage]

I dunno, sounds like we're getting too deep into this.. We've never had any encounter with Lucifer before and I don't think we would have... If we stick to what we know everything still makes sense, right? Why go back to a 4 year old game and try and come to conclusions? I think the only previous map we need to keep in mind for the BO2 story(currently) Is Moon.

[deathb4di2h0nor]

I realize that we started going a bit off topic and somewhat attempted to rewrite the story for a few minutes, but this thread is focused around the future. I had to bring up the past to make points and references.

My true interest is if cannibalism plays a part in the future. Will Samuel become the future savior, or will he join Rictofen? The two are connected no doubt, and the only thing they have in common is cannibalism.

If you remember, Rictofen hates Americans, and from what I can tell, Samuel is American. This also strengthens my theory, as he wouldn't have anything to do with him otherwise.

[PINNAZ]

This is a great thread/post DBD.

Why not in the Asylum? More traffic here?

I was thinking a little while ago, that it seems likely Samuel was eating Zombie flesh to survive, can that turn him crazier than what he already is? Much like what you said about Richtofen?

One of my favourite quotes is - (taken from Tac's Radio Transcript thread)

Another day, another failure. This time subject N3WB just slightly improved. The Russian subject still smells like urine. even after he was given a bath and deloused TWICE. I think I might have killed the specimen from Mexico. ]His spleen is on the floor and and he's not moving anymore]. I can verify with certainty that the barrier is not located in the spleen. Dr Maxis must continue no matter the cost. I wonder what he might think of the experiments on the little girl.

*Richtofen laughs and monkey screeches*

NIEN!!! Drop that! That's my Spleen! MINE!]

[Electric Jesus]

How about a totally mad idea?

There is an unlimited chain of reincarnations of the "voice," as in the person in the MPD. So far Sam richtofen and possibly Samuel. The next voice is chosen by fate. All of the past voices communicate to the future voice instructions in order to bring them to the MPD, and their destiny as the next omnipotent being.

As I said, the voices heard by richtofen would be consisted of all of the previous voices, with the loudest of them being the current voice. So richtofen, partially beyond his own control, is beckoning to Sam in order to continue the chain.

However one catch was that Sam resisted the cycle on account of her thirst for revenge. She presented a threat to the balance of the aether do the voices called to richtofen beyond her control, telling him to eject her from her seat in the MPD. So yes, the voice can affect the cycle through their own free will, though ultimately it must continue.

Also, one idea could be that exposure to the aether's power prior to your induction to the chain of voices let's you hear them before your destined time. Following this logic, the reason richtofen heard the voices was hus exposure to the MPD. And finally, the relevance! Samuel's exposure could have been through--you guessed it-- eating zombie flesh.

Since this (completely ridiculous) theory suggests that Samuel is the next voice in the chain... Well I don't even know. Just... Whatever. It sounded cool in my head, alright?!

[deathb4di2h0nor]

@PINNAZ: Honestly the Asylum right now is a bit of a joke. I feel like if my thread deserves it, the mods will move it. Yeah, Rictofen has endless quotes about wanting spleens and such... I definitely think the flesh made him a little more crazy.

@EJ: I think you are correct in a sense. It does seem to point that way, but we won't know if there is a pattern until future people are called upon. Three people is too small of a number to go off of. I think the voices definitely call the listener to the pyramid. What for is still unclear to me.

This is why I propose that there is a higher level of command. If Rictofen controlled everything, why would the voices be trying to get a new leader? It's not like they die in Aether, or even become old for that matter. It seems like the only explanation is that something controls the controller, and when the controller goes against the path of higher command, they are replaced.

I think the higher command's only priority is to make everything into undead. Samantha had her own plot to get revenge on Rictofen. Rictofen, I'm sure, has his own plan now that he is in control. This is why the voices are reaching out again. Rictofen, in an effort to at least muffle the voices, decides to call upon Samuel himself and convinces him to help.

The reason I brought up famine before (besides the facts in history) is that other people were contacted as well. This means that other people have been practicing cannibalism, or made contact with the MPD. I believe that since society was destroyed and morals went with it, cannibalism and famine played a big part in why Rictofen can contact individuals through voices and doesn't need electronics.

One thing that throws me off though is the fact that everyone can here him while "Max-ammo" is acquired as well as other power ups.... I'll get back to you on that one. I really wish Faust would reply with that link.

[Electric Jesus]

One thing that throws me off though is the fact that everyone can here him while "Max-ammo" is acquired as well as other power ups.... I'll get back to you on that one. I really wish Faust would reply with that link.

That is just gameplay. Otherwise you'd have to hope your Samuel had a mic and could be like "alright, I got a max ammo people!" it's just in the interest of gameplay.

But still. This thread made my brain explode. I don't even know if any of my brain cells survivjkfcdsefvbpouvnnxcbjfsddv

[deathb4di2h0nor]

True that. I suppose you are right about the announcer for drops. It was kind of a noobish remark now that I look back at it. :roll: Oh well. It kind of works out for me anyways because I couldn't have explained that anyways.

It is just crazy to me how they can keep adding new things like characters, and still bring up past things and make them relevant. Before, when we heard these quotes from Rictofen, it was assumed that he was just a loan crazy cannibal Nazi guy. He still is, but his quotes offer an explanation now for Samuel and the voices.

I can't even fathom the amount of time they put into the story. Imagine if this mode was never created...*gets a chill* :shock:

[Electric Jesus]

True that. I suppose you are right about the announcer for drops. It was kind of a noobish remark now that I look back at it. :roll: Oh well. It kind of works out for me anyways because I couldn't have explained that anyways.

It is just crazy to me how they can keep adding new things like characters, and still bring up past things and make them relevant. Before, when we heard these quotes from Rictofen, it was assumed that he was just a loan crazy cannibal Nazi guy. He still is, but his quotes offer an explanation now for Samuel and the voices.

I can't even fathom the amount of time they put into the story. Imagine if this mode was never created...*gets a chill* :shock:

I made a thread in the asylum centering around der riese, discussing all of the clues in the map that let us know that by the end of world at war they knew exactly what the entire black ops zombies saga was going to be. As for black ops 2 we can't be sure, but you're right. By der riese they had it all figured out. And that's just Crazy.

[deathb4di2h0nor]

I finally found the link for the demonic announcer. This is the best explanation for the connections to Lucifer. Rissole25 did a phenomenal job on this one. Bare with the coding, as I think the new site doesn't accept the BBcode from this site.

http://www.callofdutyzombies.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?14673-The-Demonic-Announcer-is-Lucifer

Another thing to keep in mind is the voice that is heard at the beginning of the game on Green Run Tranzit. It is heard well enough to know it's there, so I feel it may be of importance. I know I am straying a bit off topic again, but things are starting to tie together.

What about magic? With magic turned off, there is no box or anything. Could these items be the products of black magic?

[InfestLithium]

What about magic? With magic turned off, there is no box or anything. Could these items be the products of black magic?

Funny you should mention that; nobody even remotely considered the box, power drops, and perk machines magic-related until we saw that the option could take them away from us. I want to saw that it's a quick attempt by Treyarch to let the average slayer know what is considered "magical" (drops coming out of nowhere, sodas that boost your abilities, a wooden box that can hold various guns and randomize them while 'teleporting' to different locations) and enable/disable them for a more difficult challenge.

[LegitimateRage]

Yeah Death needs to be in the asylum, far too complex for a general discussion i think. I'd need to re-read this whole post and the replies twice just to get a thorough understanding of your theory. So mind-numbing..

[Mr. Jay]

Tim I think you might want to cut down on the whiskey and go with something lighter.

Great analysis, but a bit far off.

[deathb4di2h0nor]

I'm more of the beer type anyway, but do you care to elaborate as to how I am far off? Granted: I haven't read the entire story-line thread (The trilogy), but I feel as though I have a pretty good grasp of what's going on here. I'm not saying anything written before hand is incorrect, I just feel that the future might uncover the past... I'm confused honestly.