Maxis's EE for Die Rise interests me...

[MNM1995]

...and after the Die Rise trailer I really don't want to start any kind of argument or anything of the sort(Trust me I learnt from my mistakes) but I have to admit, his EE really interests me.

For those that haven't seen it i'll post the link below, but there is one part where Stuhlinger needs to get the Ballistic Knife and go to the upside down part of the map (where you do all the killing) and then allow Russman to go down. This completes the 'blood sacrifice'.

This is what intrigus me the most- it can ONLY be Stuhlinger that gets the Ballistic Knife and it can ONLY be Russman that goes down. I won't make any theories or speculations here, although I will add that this matches up to the opening cutscene for the map (most of this is pointed out in the video as well.

What are your guys thoughts? Could it be that actually up until they got in the elevator in the cutscene they were doing it all right? Richtofen only restarts it when they come out at the bottom and get swarmed remember.

Link:

[Joeyohh9292]

So you think that richtofen wants the crew to follow maxis' Easter egg?

I think that maxis is trying to create a paradox and richtofen is trying to stop a paradox.

[MNM1995]

Maybe yeah, but I also believe that perhaps if the opening cutscene was following Maxis's easter egg, it could mean that:

A) Russman's fate may be inevitable (I don't want to start another 'Marlton died' or 'Takeo died' thing here, I already regret that enough. All i'm saying is their is more evidence to suggest this could happening.

It explains why Richtofen wanted them to start anew- in part because they all died but also because they weren't following him.

My only problem with point B (and i'll say this now before someone else does) is that if Richtofen rewinded time in-part to stop them helping Maxis, why would he not do it again and also why didn't he do it on TranZit (if Maxis was helped on TranZit)?

You could say that, up to Russman's death, Richtofen was going to do this anyway but I don't know for sure about that...

Anyone else got any thoughts on any of this?

[MysteryMachineX]

To be honest, I'm going to hold my thoughts until I can hear the dialogue myself and make a rational decision.

[zmcdowall1]

The way I seen the cutscene was as if it was a normal game of zombies and Richtofen must only be able to spawn them back if they all die that'll be why he doesn't stop you in game, I don't know just my input.

[MNM1995]

Not a bad idea actually, so as if everytime we start a game of zombies it could be Richtofen/ Samantha (in BO1 and Nuketown Zombies) spawning us in again? Interesting for sure...

Also, I am on my file share checking something out as I was playing Die Rise solo and (using the minions) got all 6 perks, but at the end of the game I went down in a place I could see Samuel and could have swore he had Blue Eyes. I want to confirm this then see if it's the same for other characters.

EDIT: Sorry for the quick edit, but my video got to the point I needed right as I posted this. Samuel doesn't have blue eyes when he's down in Who's Who. I was trying to find some evidence supporting my theory on him being infected and slowly becoming a zombie. Anyway, carry on discussing this topic!

[vvmichael15]

My theories so far:

Samuel’s change:

This is different from turning back from a zombie to a human!(like with the VR-11) this seems more like ingesting flesh (and thus 115) and gaining zombie like abilities!

to me that explains the moaning you hear, you hear the 'souls' or rotting thoughts of some of the zombies you fight!

and going on the transmission you can hear on the tv i would think more people ingested zombie flesh and are now forming a new group!

The dying in the opening cut scene:

To me this is just treyarch breaking the 4th wall and finaly explaining the old question of respawning after you die (end of a game).

Nothing more to it, it gives us info on the storyline and explains respawning.

i must say this gives me great pleasure to think about and work on :P

[MNM1995]

I like your theory on Samuel, perhaps ingesting the 115 opens his mind to allow Richtofen to take control? Would certainately explain why he is the only one Richtofen can communicate with if he's the only one to have a 115 over-exposure.

However, I disagree with your theory on the opening cutscene. Too much story info there for me to believe it's just for respawning, and besides the respawning is just for gameplay reasons- no character in the story dies and respwans. You have to remember the rounds etc. are only there for gameplay reasons, as without them it's almost story-like.

If all characters died in every map, there wouldn't be a story at all!

And I also love debating away about this stuff!

[Wilbizzle]

I thought this was Samantha's game in bo1 and now its Richtophen's game in this one and the rounds were just for players to pace themselves initially but it would make sense with reincarnation being brought into the story that they will explain how the characters never run out of steam and why they can continuously keep on fighting level to level. I mean i think TreyArch has shown how ambitious it is and wouldn't be a long shot for them to explain why the gameplay is the way it is with a story that envelops your mind.

[MNM1995]

No, the gampleay is the way it because until Shi-No Numa (and arguably Veruckt although we only find out the story stuff about that in BO1) there was no story to zombies, it was just survive.

Reviving was because when players go down, they don't want it to be the end of their game like Search and Destroy or something, they want to carry on. Also, Treyarch tried but were unable to make it so that dead players come back as zombies but it was too awkward for them to do.

I have heard people suggest the rounds represent days, which is a fairly valid point, however the rounds are only really there because it makes it more interesting than just throwing zombies at you constantly, plus it's more competitve trying to beat your friends or other peoples records.

When they started to form a story and in Ascension when they decided to really expand on that story further with the Kassimir Mechanism easter egg, they couldn't just change the gameplay of zombies to fit their new criteria- the gameplay is what made it so popular to begin with. They had to maintain the gameplay methods but make them non-canon so they could build a story up around the events that unfold throughout the map.

[Ourobos]

FWIW, you can revive on Search and Destroy / Multiplayer if you have Second Chance Pro.. So that's a moot point.

[vvmichael15]

i mainly think that Samual is not hearing just Richtofen anymore, a new "deity: has entered (or is trying to enter) his mind!

[MNM1995]

FWIW, you can revive on Search and Destroy / Multiplayer if you have Second Chance Pro.. So that's a moot point.

True, though that perk isn't online anymore and is now only used on zombies, seeing as it hasn't been in the game since BO1 and besides that, my point was that when a player dies in Search, they don't come back till the next round/ game.

i mainly think that Samual is not hearing just Richtofen anymore, a new "deity: has entered (or is trying to enter) his mind!

Good thought, however seeing as in the Die Rise cutscene it's shown that the low, grumbling voice Samuel is hearing was just Richtofen changing his voice like Samantha did before. It could be that the zombie-like voices in his head are this new entity, but according to the CoD wiki it's Samule himself who is making these zombie noises, which I don't believe.

[deathb4di2h0nor]

This only strengthens my point... give me a moment.

EDIT: No time today upate tomorrow...

[vvmichael15]

Good thought, however seeing as in the Die Rise cutscene it's shown that the low, grumbling voice Samuel is hearing was just Richtofen changing his voice like Samantha did before. It could be that the zombie-like voices in his head are this new entity, but according to the CoD wiki it's Samule himself who is making these zombie noises, which I don't believe.

i can not seem to find this part in the cut scene were it is revealed the moaning voice is actualy richtofen!

has this been confirmed or are we still speculating about it?

[MNM1995]

Right at the end, when they start going down the elevator the coice sounds more like Richtofen, then at the end of the trailer when they come out of the elevator then all die. Richtofen is the one talking to him.

[vvmichael15]

Right at the end, when they start going down the elevator the coice sounds more like Richtofen, then at the end of the trailer when they come out of the elevator then all die. Richtofen is the one talking to him.

these voices sound nothing alike to me, plus the motives that richtofen has do not compare to the one heard from the "moaning", richtofen can only be heard by Samuel so how is he supposed to tell the others aboout the "flesh" sam ate?

"mend the rift(s)" is the quote to go by here, richtofen is making rifts rather than fixing them (teleportation and possibly time manipulation).

plus why would Samuel stand up to richtofen now?

the main reason i have for the moaning being a new entity, is this new group with the motto " as they consume us, we shall consume them".

(will continiue later got to go.)

[MNM1995]

Richtofen is the only voice in Samuels head at the moment. There has been no confirmation of another voice, and i'm not saying there there isn't one but i'm going on fact here and the fact is there is only one voice in Samuels head at the moment.

[Tasty Applesauce]

So you think that richtofen wants the crew to follow maxis' Easter egg?

I think that maxis is trying to create a paradox and richtofen is trying to stop a paradox.

interesting theory, that would almost explain "mend the rift"

on another note after you revive Russman I find the quote "the energy of the broken souls has been released" (or something along those lines) very interesting and it raised a few neck hairs.

[MNM1995]

Perhaps Maxis is trying to help Samantha survive? Maybe everything you do for Maxis is to help the O4 on the Moon? Seeing as she's his daughter, this would make sense...

Obviously Richtofen, who hates Samantha and Doc. Maxis would be trying to stop this and likely improve his powers and capabites (they already seem to have improved drastically since the start of BO2).

[Tasty Applesauce]

Perhaps Maxis is trying to help Samantha survive? Maybe everything you do for Maxis is to help the O4 on the Moon? Seeing as she's his daughter, this would make sense...

Obviously Richtofen, who hates Samantha and Doc. Maxis would be trying to stop this and likely improve his powers and capabites (they already seem to have improved drastically since the start of BO2).

that what I think the game wants to lead you to belive but I still think Maxis has his own agenda, he's not even truly the real Maxis, I'm told he's an AI so would his decision making be based on emotions or by logistics?

I think he's out for revenge. He was betrayed, his daughter was imprisoned in the MPD and his last words to her before he got shot was something along the lines of "kill them". The apocalypse has happened, he's already sent missiles at the Earth whilst laughing maniacally. I think he wants to wipe the slate clean.

[MNM1995]

Perhaps Maxis is trying to help Samantha survive? Maybe everything you do for Maxis is to help the O4 on the Moon? Seeing as she's his daughter, this would make sense...

Obviously Richtofen, who hates Samantha and Doc. Maxis would be trying to stop this and likely improve his powers and capabites (they already seem to have improved drastically since the start of BO2).

that what I think the game wants to lead you to belive but I still think Maxis has his own agenda, he's not even truly the real Maxis, I'm told he's an AI so would his decision making be based on emotions or by logistics?

I think he's out for revenge. He was betrayed, his daughter was imprisoned in the MPD and his last words to her before he got shot was something along the lines of "kill them". The apocalypse has happened, he's already sent missiles at the Earth whilst laughing maniacally. I think he wants to wipe the slate clean.

So what you're saying is that maybe we are being lead to believe that Maxis is the 'good' guy and Richtofen is 'The Bad Guy', but actually it's the other way around? Interesting thought...

Perhaps, whoever you side with in the end, the Earth will never return to its original state, either Maxis will desyroy it or Richtofen will control it. Pretty interesting stuff.

And yes, you are correct, Maxis is an entity and this could affect his decision and motives later on.

[Tasty Applesauce]

Perhaps Maxis is trying to help Samantha survive? Maybe everything you do for Maxis is to help the O4 on the Moon? Seeing as she's his daughter, this would make sense...

Obviously Richtofen, who hates Samantha and Doc. Maxis would be trying to stop this and likely improve his powers and capabites (they already seem to have improved drastically since the start of BO2).

that what I think the game wants to lead you to belive but I still think Maxis has his own agenda, he's not even truly the real Maxis, I'm told he's an AI so would his decision making be based on emotions or by logistics?

I think he's out for revenge. He was betrayed, his daughter was imprisoned in the MPD and his last words to her before he got shot was something along the lines of "kill them". The apocalypse has happened, he's already sent missiles at the Earth whilst laughing maniacally. I think he wants to wipe the slate clean.

So what you're saying is that maybe we are being lead to believe that Maxis is the 'good' guy and Richtofen is 'The Bad Guy', but actually it's the other way around? Interesting thought...

Perhaps, whoever you side with in the end, the Earth will never return to its original state, either Maxis will desyroy it or Richtofen will control it. Pretty interesting stuff.

And yes, you are correct, Maxis is an entity and this could affect his decision and motives later on.

that's pretty much exactly my thinking, plus from the sounds of it in the radios and stuff that we've found in the past Maxis was kind of a dick before he died. Although I don't believe Richtofin is good I believe him to be the lesser of two evils, starting in this map he almost sounds to be suffering, when he talks to you the first couple times it sounds strange and as you progress farther in his side of the EE he starts to sound stronger, louder, and happier

[Tasty Applesauce]

Long story short, Richtofin became crazy after his first contact with the MPD something changed him, Maxis went crazy long before by his own means.

[MNM1995]

I wouldn't quite say he sounds although he's suffering, but I do agree that by the end of the game he seems a lot more upbeat than at the start, once his side of the EE is done anyway.