ATTN Treyarch - sledgehammer and the fly

[The Clay Bird]

Guys. I want an honest answer. Which is better: the Wave Gun? the 31-79 JGb215? or the Sliquifier?

Thing new patched Sliquifier makes judgement a bit difficult. It has finite damage now, as you can see by crawlers. However, it is the largest finite damage ever seen. I mean, it CAN get you to Round 100 with seemingly infinite damage. What do you guys think?

wave gun better imo. just because of the "OH SHIT" factor meaning it can for all intents and purposes get you out of a corner if you've trapped yourself. sliquifier is prob the most fun to use, although it is very close between the 3 as to which i laughed harder at the first time i used lol :lol:

[Nasdaq401]

Bump

[Ryan Nowell]

I wonder if he had a crawler because he didn't have double tap?

[Ryan Nowell]

Bump

Bump...

lol

[Megaton A]

lol. so the "noobs" are the ones saying its overpowered?...wow. first time i think ive ever heard of a noob thinking any gun was overpowered. almost seems completely contradictory to their nature :roll:

oh and i should clarify... by hoard i dont mean just the zombies u have trained behind you at the moment, i know many of the wonderweapons could take them all out in one shot... i mean every zombie thats going to spawn in for that entire round, because the sliqufier is definitely the only gun that can take them all out in one shot.

Yes, the n00bs are the ones saying it's overpowered (well, n00bs and PS3 owners who haven't been able to play the map yet) because anyone who actually has experience with the map can tell you that all those videos of people camping in the Galvaknuckles room with the Sliquifier were not evidence of an overpowered gun, but of a broken spawn system. The people saying it was overpowered all seem to be basically saying what you're saying... that it was overpowered because you could sit where the zombies spawn in, shoot at the spawn, and take out tons of zombies (and no, you couldn't do a whole round with one shot anyways, but whatever).

The simple fact is, the situation you're talking about involved people exploiting a poorly implemented spawn system. The update increased the spawn radius... that should have been enough. There was no need to also nerf the gun itself.

And yeah, I also bought the hardened edition only for Nuketown Zombies... and I was really pissed off to find they were offering it for free with the season pass. Whoever made the analogy of a cable company raising rates after your three month deal expires is completely missing the point. When you get an entry package with a cable company you're completely aware that the rates will increase when it expires. We were told that Nuketown Zombies was only going to be available with the Hardened Edition, and most of us assumed from Black Ops that it would eventually be made available in a map pack, but it wouldn't be for 9 months or so and we would receive a free map or something of equal value to compensate. Instead we were told "Hey, if you want this map you better get the special edition!! It's the only way you can get it!!" yet then right around the game's release they turned around and said "That exclusive map that you paid an extra $20 for?? We're giving it away for free to anyone that wants to save money by buying the season pass. And to compensate you guys for buying the Hardened Edition?? Hahah get screwed, we got your money, suckers!!!"

[Ryan Nowell]

fuckin true ^^^^

[FatedTitan]

I'm not happy about this either. It seems that Treyarch is losing tough with the hardcore fans in an attempt to reach a bigger audience. Now they're starting to lose us.

The Siliquifier was awesome. It was a fun gun and I had never even tried to chain for high rounds. It was just fun to use. Now it's weaker. It's not worth my time really. And I those saying its OP, all I have to say is this. IT'S A WONDER WEAPON! It's supposed to be OP. look at every WW out there an they all have one thing in common. It's OP. Yes, even the VR-11.

I have more issues than just the Siliquifier though. TranZit was awful! And what about Grief and Turned? Why can't these modes be available on every map? Why make a mode for one or two maps then ditch it?

And what about past WWs? Why must they be map exclusive? I know you want to have new fun wonder weapons, but throw an old one back in the box or something. The Shrink Gun fits perfectly with DR, yet you let an opportunity to give a gun another chance go to waste.

Also, this goes back to BO. Easter eggs. Side quests are awesome. I love doing them. But where are the small eggs hidden in the map that are what made this community what it is today. Hide and Seek didn't make Der Riese a fun map. It was all the little things that made people speculate. Where have these gone? And speaking of radios, STOP BEING LAZY AND ADD IN MULTIPLE RADIO LOCATIONS! I'm sick of hitting the same tv over and over for all the radios. That's pure laziness. It isn't hard to throw other radio locations in, even if it's other tvs.

And don't get me started on NTZ. Pimp it as exclusive to HE, then the Sunday before release, announce it'll be abailble in the season pass. What a scam!

And you want to know the worst part? Treyarch always talks about how the community is their favorite part of zombies. And yet I doubt they'll even address this. If community is so important, one of them needs to step up and give their reasoning or address us. They may make zombies, but they've stated themselves that WE, THE COMMUNITY, make zombies what it is.

I was excited with DR. And Turned looked like a fun addition as well. I just didn't realize Turned was foreshadowing the community turning against the Devs...

So Devs. The ball is in your court. Are you going to ignore the community that built zombies to what it is today, or will you hold up on what you said months ago...you love the community. If we really are your favorite part, then address us for once. It's not about being cryptic. It's about letting your fans know that you hear us!

[FatedTitan]

Also, many of us bought the season pass, so giving a map pack for free doesn't work. We already paid for it...

[Ryan Nowell]

We paid 20 bucks for a map we could have had for free if we only knew to wait one single month. That doesn't seem all that fair.

That's like Subway sayin "Every Foot Long 5 Bucks!... Except that one you ordered. Oh, you only have 5 bucks? We'll take your money and here's a pickle. Go F*** Yourself."

Even Xbox has a refund/compensation system when they know they screwed up. Yeah Microsoft has the money to do this. But you mean to tell me These two companies (Treyarch/Activision) don't?

As long as this outrage has gone on. I am really surprised nobody from the higher ups have addressed this ISSUE. Thought the community was what you were trying to make as the heart of your bussiness? You fix EVERY ISSUE but this one that is going to haunt you.

Idk, I wouldn't want a publishist making a bad name of my multi billion dollar industry. If I were Treyarch, I would start now, look for another publisher and right the wrong. You must've seen this scam coming a mile away? You must have got a cut from the Scam.

idk, fuckin con-artists.

[Ryan Nowell]

Since we are only getting 4 DLC map packs, efn tran and its zits of a map(s) and ntz.... Dude, I'm upset. I dont even want to get the other DLCs.. We have this big ass EARTH that I can scroll through.. So, Let's see...

NTZ (Global Scam)

Tranzit... And the zits.

Die Rise (Not Fun AnyMore) Turned (Never going to play it)

??? Probably going to be fun until it's patched over some bs.

??? Probably going to be fun until it's patched over some bs..

??? Probably going to be fun until it's patched over some bs...

That's horrible. That's, LOW expectations. That's what that is. My Expectations are lowered now. You had this imaginary bar set so high that you couldn't reach it. Then You step on our high hopes to reach it.

[ETEl2NAL407]

"Whoever made the analogy of a cable company raising rates after your three month deal expires is completely missing the point. When you get an entry package with a cable company you're completely aware that the rates will increase when it expires."

I made that analogy and though it may have not been the best analogy, I did not miss the point. You did.

The point is not about HOW a particular company swindles you out of your money, only that they WILL.

My point is not to advocate advertising lies, but to show the actual cause of such. Ready for a surprise? It's the buyers. The people buying (believing) all these lies that advertisers put out there are what causes even bigger lies to be made.

A great analogy about advertising lies is food. Matter of fact, it's also a sales pitch staple. When you see a McDonald's commercial on television the cheeseburgers look flawless. Do you really believe you're going to receive that same flawless burger when you actually go to McDonald's? No? Well, of course not, but why aren't we complaining about that everytime we go to McDonald's? Isn't that the same as lying about exclusive content? To me, it is. It's McDonald's saying, "If you come to our restaurant, this is what you can expect." but that's NOT what I get. So, with the exclusive content we're hearing from Treyarch, "If you pre-purchase, this is what you can expect." but that's NOT what we get. Same thing. Yet, it's more acceptable for McDonald's to do this? No. It's just that we expect it from them because they're built up in most people's eyes as some corporate giant and for some silly reason we don't see Treyarch as the same.

Obviously Treyarch is playing in the big leagues now. They're hiring advertising executives and marketing consultants, teams of highly trained sales...Professional con artists and money hustlers/swindlers. They research market trends, find out what works to increase sales, and attack those strategies to maximize profits and fill their pockets. If you actually think Treyarch is creating these games to share in our enjoyment, you're mistaken. They do this to earn money so they can feed their families, or buy that Ferrarri they've always wanted.

I used to work in sales, so I can tell you first-hand that it's all a scam with a pretty pink bow on the top. Sales is about getting an emotional reaction from your client. You want the buyer to FEEL that they MUST have your product, whether they need it or not. The staple about food I mentioned earlier is a little phrase that any salesman will know, "Don't sell the steak, sell the sizzle." It basically means that your product matters little, but what truly matters is the way you present your product. In this case, the sizzle for Treyarch is the empty promise that pre-purchasers get exclusive content.

Another great little sales phrase is, "People love to buy, but they hate to be sold." which is easy to see by the outrage that many of you have over this whole thing. You love to buy the pre-purchase because you love to think you're getting exclusive content, but once you discover that was a lie just to sell the pre-purcahse, you're mad. Matter of fact, Megaton even said so himself,

"Hahah get screwed, we got your money, suckers!!!"

Not to pick on you Megaton, but you said I missed the point. If the point of this thread is to whine and complain about how Treyarch is a good seller, then yes I missed that point. I was making my own point that there's no use in whining and complaining because buyer's that purchase based on their emotional responses vs. logical decisions are why we see ads that lie. If you don't want companies to lie about their products, first, don't believe the lies and make your purchases based on logic, and, second, spread that same message. If emotional based sales drop, advertisers will be forced to abandon those strategies and just make better products that appeal to a buyer's logic.

It's just Logic vs. Emotion. For example, the ads for BO:1 and BO:2 have celebrity cameos. Cool, right? Yeah, it makes you feel like the game you love is good enough for celebrities, so you're part of that elite club when you purchase the game. Then, we get the game and we see all the glitches and flaws, we see the leaderboards for zombies have NO bearing on skill. Now think about all the money they paid to have those celebrities in their commercial. Now, take all that money and put it to paying programmers and testers more so the game could have been developed and released without as many bugs. Now, let's advertise that. Just have a camera panning around the testers hard at work improving the game. Do you think it would sell as well? No. Why? Because the majority has already told advertisers that we don't care about the substance of our products, we just want you to make it look cool. Lol...this is why it's pointless to complain when you get sold.

[Ryan Nowell]

I don't think I bought the game because some celeberty told me to. I've been playing Cod besically since before it was cool. I've seen the very game I love evolve into a great game. Never once, in those 7-8 years, was I ever lied to about the game and it's downloadable content.

It's a low blow to humanity.

This whole thing would be slightly better if NTZ was released for Season Pass Holders when DLC 4 comes out. That way I could play it and laugh at others for not paying for the Hardened Edition. NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

[jinro]

ETEl2NAL407 wrote: everything

you are definitely one of my fav. user's here!!

i wish this site still used "brains" cause id give them all to you.

don't let emotion cloud your logic...

treyarch/activision didn't lie to you, you lied to yourself by setting yourself up for a fall and then expecting not to fall...

So, if you don't want them to advertise like this in the future, don't buy the pre-order. Do you really think they'd just leave a map on the cutting room floor if only 0.005% of their consumers actually saw it? No. So don't give in. Don't let them trick you into buying prematurely.

[ETEl2NAL407]

*bows*

Why thank you, sir. Good to see someone understands my point.

:D

[MegaAfroMan]

ETEl2NAL407 wrote: everything

you are definitely one of my fav. user's here!!

i wish this site still used "brains" cause id give them all to you.

don't let emotion cloud your logic...

treyarch/activision didn't lie to you, you lied to yourself by setting yourself up for a fall and then expecting not to fall...

So, if you don't want them to advertise like this in the future, don't buy the pre-order. Do you really think they'd just leave a map on the cutting room floor if only 0.005% of their consumers actually saw it? No. So don't give in. Don't let them trick you into buying prematurely.

No. They didn't lie. But they certainly stretched deception further than they previously have, and further than was acceptable. There is no denying that they said Nuketown Zombies would be exclusive to Hardened edition purchasers, and there is no denying that it wasn't, for long. They didn't specify a length of time, and that, only in retrospect, is suspicious. But they took advantage of our assumption that they would hold off until the final DLC to release the hardened content to the general public. It was wrong, and a terrible act on there part. We are in no way at fault for this. We were deceived. Had they not shouted "exclusive" and had I known the season pass would have given me the same map 1 month later, I would not have paid the additional 20$, and I know of countless others who feel the same. Regardless of whether or this is a common business practice, in no way justifies this behavior, especially when the past shows otherwise for this particular company (Treyarch).

[Lenne]

The video game industry is a dirty business.

[XxJason LivesxX]

The only option we have regarding the Hardened Edition BS is to not buy the Hardened Edition again.

No matter what they claim will be exclusive...

I've told myself this will be the last Hardened Edition I buy.

Blops1=$20 extra gets you 4 Classic maps plus the Moon map free, free wallpaper and a free soundtrack. Exclusivity for 9 months on the classic maps. I feel like the company really does value the community and respects the fact that we paid for the better edition of the game.

Blops2=$20 extra gets you one map, a weapon camo and a playercard. Exclusivity lasts 3 weeks and everybody who orders season pass gets it free. I feel like the company takes my loyalty for granted and could care less about those of us who shelled out the extra cash.

Now Treyarch, why would I buy another Hardened Edition?

I've defended 3Arc till I'm blue in the face on here, but the H.E. BS and the game ending glitches that don't get patched makes it really hard for me to "hold the faith" so to speak.

The utter silence from 3Arc on these issues makes me nervous as well.

[Chopper]

ETEl2NAL407 - very well written response. What you say is completely correct, however you are missing the point in this discussion if you are saying don't whine, just act in the future.

Couple of reasons - The reason I bought hardened is so that could play the "exclusive" NTZ. However you cut it, there was a perception among all buyers that this would be similar to how it was on BO1, and remain an exclusive for close to a year.

Now I made a logical decision that the only way I could play this for 9 months was to buy the hardened addition. There may have been emotion involved as I wanted to play NTZ asap, but that doesn't change the fact that the company have been more deceitful than they have been in the past.

Whether this is natural for all companies or not is irrelevant, Treyarch still acted in a way that they haven't done in the past. This is why we feel cheated and why we are whining.

This brings me to my second point, why the whining and bitching? It's simple really, firstly it makes me feel personally better after venting. Most on the site have seen me vent on a variety of different things. Secondly though, is my belief that the actual zombie developers do listen to the community and may in some way be able to somewhat rectify this problem. Not the big bad CEOs of the company pushing for this, the guys that actually make the game.

My original point in the first thread was that they had screwed up the liquifier gun unnecessarily. That still stands.

In complete honestly if the company had openly said that the hardened would only get NZT for 2 weeks, and it would be free with the season pass I would have still bought hardened. This is because I would want to play it immediately, and most importantly I really can afford that money without a second thought. Sorry, that really doesn't mean to sound arrogant as I tend to keep my personal life away from the site, but I don't struggle when it comes to money.

That doesn't change the fact that there are many people out there who that 20 or 30 dollars would make a much larger different in their life. I'm arguing as much out of principle as my personal feelings are conflicting the fact that I would have bought it anyway.

I just want them to make good zombie maps, get rid of glitchers and glitches, and not have a massive overreaction to a gun that they made, tested and damn right knew worked exactly as intended.

[ETEl2NAL407]

I see exactly what you're saying Nator and you're right. The deception was greater for BO:2. Of course, that's because of how well the HE sold for BO:1. 3arc knew, based on sales data, that another HE pre-purchase was bound to do well, so they did it. What may have happened to more or less negate the exclusivity of it could be that A) the HE sales didn't do as well as they thought so they threw NTZ in with the Season Pass to make SP more attractive and regain some sales, or they had the idea of maximizing profits through the HE+SP combo from the beginning.

I tend to envision the latter, probably just because I've seen first-hand the dark side of corporate America and am somewhat of a conspiracy theorist, but either case is plausible.

I don't mean to come off as looking down on everyone or pointing my finger at the whiners. I understand venting and if it makes you feel better, vent. I do, however, strongly advocate logic, so I can't help but try and nudge this discussion away from emotional release into a constructive breakdown of cause and effect, in hopes of alleviating others' pains by logical explanation.

I fully agree with your original point about the Sliquifier, but don't have much input, as I'm not a big fan of Die Rise. Though we should take the bugs, flaws, and they way 3arc is fixing them as a huge clue to their current business practices. So far, we've been a bit disappointed overall, I would say. Is this a direct result of corporate America's intervention, cutting costs, maximizing profits, industrializing 3arc, etc.. Or do you all think it's the devs just dropping the ball? I believe the former, but I also believe the devs are losing to the execs in the decision making process, more than likely because of money.

[Chopper]

I tend to envision the latter, probably just because I've seen first-hand the dark side of corporate America and am somewhat of a conspiracy theorist, but either case is plausible.

I don't mean to come off as looking down on everyone or pointing my finger at the whiners.

Or do you all think it's the devs just dropping the ball? I believe the former, but I also believe the devs are losing to the execs in the decision making process, more than likely because of money.

Corporate anywhere has screwed over the world now....RBS lost 5 billion GBP last year, yet paid out 687 million in bonuses.

From what you are saying I assume you are pretty clued up on the financial aspect in the US, and are fully aware of just how evil the corporations are. Starting with Enron, moving to Solomon then Fannie Mae and Mac, just to name the real big ones.

I don't think you are looking like that at all mate, just you have a different viewpoint which I personally find refreshing.

I think the devs are losing in the decision making process on some things, I just can't see the execs giving a flying **** about things like patches. So in my opinion it comes back to the devs.

[ETEl2NAL407]

I understand what you mean about the execs not caring about the patches, but the thing that the execs do care about is money. Since everything costs money, man hours for patching, resources for running machines to program, etc.. the execs have more of a say in the patches than you may expect.

It happens quite frequently that a small company has a great idea and manages to market the idea quite successfully, make a ton of revenue and decide to expand their company with their newly acquired fortune. Through the course of expansion, corporate America gets their stinky feet in their door and through the course of board meetings and conference calls, subtley the people who began the company lose their original decision making power. They, slowly but surely, are edged out of administrative power as the financial happenings are left in "better qualified" peoples' hands.

It's only natural that a technical and creative person yields such decisions with the best interests of the company in mind, but unfortunately as they yield this power, consequentially they end up becoming just another employee of some corporate machine, driven by greed.

I don't blame the devs. These are natural decisions. The problem here is greed. The only thing we can do to combat corporate America's greed is not play their games. Don't be greedy with your purchases, don't be sold by their shady marketing techniques. Just because something looks cool, doesn't mean you NEED it. Research your purchases and make smart decisions. In the end, the data these execs use to base their greed off of are the things we buy. So, if we are buying cheap stuff that looks cool vs. quality products that function well, we're telling these execs that we're buying things because of how they're advertised, not because of how they're made.

[Chopper]

PS3 leaderboards are already hacked. Above Galva there is a new spot.

So the wonderful patch that Treyarch did means that glitchers can still use the gun for massive chains, as long as they find an area and all legit players are knee deep in purple ****.

Wonderful job guys, completely ruined the wonder weapon for legit players, and didn't even fix all the glitchable spots.

[MysteryMachineX]

PS3 leaderboards are already hacked. Above Galva there is a new spot.

So the wonderful patch that Treyarch did means that glitchers can still use the gun for massive chains, as long as they find an area and all legit players are knee deep in purple ****.

Wonderful job guys, completely ruined the wonder weapon for legit players, and didn't even fix all the glitchable spots.

Could you explain this as if to someone that hasn't seen what you are referring to?

[Chopper]

Ok, so there are a couple of things.

The liquid gun used to leave a big pool of slag or whatever it's called where you shot. Now what happens is zombies that are dying also leave random smaller pools all over the place. So it makes running the big chains impossible.

However, past 75 it starts working as it did before. But then on round 102 it creates crawlers.

So, the smaller pools only affect players running, those glitching in a single spot aren't affected at all.

So now there is a safer way ultimately to run with the weapon, until 75 then back to as before. The safer way is much slower, and much more like BO high rounds were.....same old same old, rinse and repeat, boredom guaranteed.

The liquid gun pre patch was sooooooo much fun to use, and it's just not now.

I could get 100 again post patch, but I don't really see the point. It would take me around 6 hours to get to 75, where it took me 3 and 1/2 before. And then I get to 102 and can't really go higher?

Well, there is a new strategy developed which takes advantage of the fact that damaged zombies don't respawn when you leave an area. Designed for Tranzit to make it harder, it is now being abused to clear a hoard in 50 seconds.

So the way to get high is abuse this system, and do it slowly but have no chance of going down. I can't see how that is better than having a strategy which took a lot of skill in itself, but was much quicker and actually meant you could go down.

46 in the world now on XBOX, and they are still removing people. There are at least 10 above me that are hackers, so that means that there are only 35 other people who have managed a ton, legit pre patch.

They nerfed a gun which only a small number of people could use in my opinion. Those that have tried to use it pre patch will attest to just how difficult, but fun it was.

[MysteryMachineX]

Thank you.

So there are still people who are glitching in a single spot and killing with the Sliquifier?