Wobbling PaP - Shared Mountain Theory (NML & Shangri-La)

[GRILL]

THE SHARED MOUNTAIN THEORY

This is an old topic that I swore I would bring to justice. Back before I was l GRILL l, I was "kingsly zzissou". (old topic = viewtopic.php?f=72&t=23884)

The reason I'm including this in ASYLUM is because, I feel it's still very much unsolved. and if solved, could greatly aid to the canon and overall storyline. I'm aware that in the description for ASYLUM it says "speculation concerning Black Ops II zombies"... but unsolved mysteries like this could aid towards speculation of Black Ops II (think along the lines of "are we really where we think we are?" "and if so, why the hell is Nacht here?" etc.)

So during the whole "shangri-la mountain" craze this summer Click here if you forgot or do not know what I'm talking about, there was a lot of speculation going around. Tac says Mars, MMX says Earth - until it's all said and done there really is no way to tell... so that means we have to go back to universal truths to fully understand. Before I delve in, let me go ahead and say that the research done this summer was what prompted me to create a username for this site. It is with the utmost respect that I cite the "shangri la is on mars" thread, and I mean no disrespect or deterring towards the tireless theories represented in that fantastic thread - I'm just building on my own.

WHAT AM I TRYING TO DO: Prove that the wobbling pack-a-punch in NML has significance.

WHY MIGHT THIS BE IMPORTANT: No other Pack-a-Punches wobble, thus making this one suspicious and perhaps relevant to the overall story or canon.

WHAT WILL THIS THREAD HELP: To flesh out the storyline in regards to the method of transportation between SL & NML, and to suggest that perhaps Shangri La is not what/where we think it is.

So here we go - off to slaughter another sacred cow. First off let's have a loot at the wobbling pack a punch itself, and the comparison between the grates at NML & Shangri-La.

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Let's take a look at RADAUSTINS27's excellent noclip of Shangri-La: (fast forward to 08:35)

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After the watching the video, it's clear that the water source runs down from the waterfall to the "Shangri La Mountain" by the way of stream.

+ water flows downhill to follow the path of least resistance

+ asides from there being natural waterfalls in shangri la, we cannot deny the fact that there are irrigation systems. in fact one of the steps of the EE is to apply pressure to one of the grates above the irrigation channel.

+ following the water leads us directly to the "Shangri La Mountain" that was referred to as zombie's "best kept secret"

+ when we arrive at NML, we are standing directly next to a grate with the PaP wobbling on top of the grate

+ if we look off in the distance, we can see mountains on the horizon in NML

here we have another excellent noclip video from RADAUSTINS27. If you fast forward to 08:11 - you will see the mountain range featured in NML.

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SO - if we were to say that Shangri-La & NML shared a mountain, then it'd be possible to say they could have shared a water source.

But GRILL, Shangri-La is in the himalayas. Area 51 is in Nevada. What are you getting at, you fool?

Excellent question, I especially liked the part about me being a fool. In Tac's thread on Shangri-La being on Mars - there were strong points made to the fact that activating the 4 stones in Shangri-La not only leads to time travel, but location-based travel as well. With the support of this theory, it's safe to say that Shangri-La could be anywhere at anytime... and thus I bring to you:

"The Shared Mountain theory"

+ when richtofen first was teleported to Shangri-la, it was in the himalayas.

+ he was treated as a god, and thus the gifts (focusing stone & skulls) were left for him

+ in the time between richtofen's first arrival at Shangri-La & the O4's arrival at Shangri-La the physical location of Shangri-La had changed.

+ also during the time lapse between Richtofen's first arrival and the O4, the USA had figured out how to transport Shangri-La to where they could properly conduct research on the acient alien technoly & REE (115).

+ the USA had no idea the focusing stone was right under their noses, or even existed

+ when the O4 are transported to Shangri-La, Richtofen is able to carry out his plan regardless of the location. His focusing stone is still in tact.

+ upon retrieving his prize, Richtofen uses COMMON SENSE (or perhaps the voices tell him) to follow the water. He knows water leads downhill, if he was in the Himalayas he'd have to go downhill (if they didn't teleport).

+ If it was Richtofen's common sense: once following the stream down to the mountain range - Richtofen would find the grate and naturally deduce that things were not as they seem. He's not in the Himalayas, and his best chance is following the pipe system.

+ If it was the voices telling Richtofen: he would know that the USA had found how to control the location of Shangri-La, and he would know that following the pipeline would lead him to exactly where he needs to be.

+ Regardless: they use the pipe system to go from Shangri-La to NML, they lift up the grate and that is why the PaP is wobbling. When we (the gamer) take hold of the O4 in NML, it is moments after setting the grate down.

+ Either we climb the grate, or we are propelled upwards in a geyser. This would explain all the random water pools in NML.

The map that we play in known as Shangri la was staged or housed within area 51's limits - imagine if they created a giant translucent bio-dome ala Truman Show or something. Being made from ancient alien technology - Shangri La was capable of travel through time, space & location. At some point, the USA learned of it's abilities and were able to coordinate it's transportation through time and space to arrive in the vicinity of Area 51 (or NML) - totally unaware of the focusing stone, but aware of it's ability to transport and REE supply (115).

the USA went to such extremes that they created a synthetic mountain range to cover up the bio-dome from human vision. The one catch was that shangri la was powered by a hydro electric source, and since a body of water wouldn't teleport they had to create their own irrigation system.

The 04 (after completing the EE) followed the stream until they reached the edge of the bio dome, where they found a grate, opened it/climbed down and followed until they reached the manhole located at NML. The PaP was on top of the grate, so Richtofen knew this was the place to crawl out.

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Like I said, this is an old topic - but a new idea. If I'm missing anything, or if there's anything I should know - please let me know in the comments below! Thanks for reading! :mrgreen:

[BuscusBros]

Wow,Maybe this could explain the red coloured mountain (being a desert mountain). Awesome stuff here !

[InfestLithium]

Now this is what I call a connected theory. You never fail to amaze me, GRILL.

What's so interesting is that you hypothesize Shangri-la actually being within the vicinity of Area 51. The possibility of a shared mountain could be quite plausible, and I wouldn't be too surprised if the two were linked in that fashion. When I think of the grid vent underneath the Pack-a-Punch machine, I think of this:

http://www.realufos.net/2009/05/new-ufo ... ea-51.html

I understand that Shangri-la is ancient ground and holds mystique power unlike anything found on Earth. This would mean that it could survive in a habitat that it conflicts with - considering that the Nevada base is located in the middle of a dry desert. A bio dome wouldn't be necessary in this case. Even when you take Tac's Mars theory, how could a setting like this exist on such a planet where there is very minor but somewhat similar elements to pursue lifeforms? It's simple: this is not an ordinary terrain, so like you said, if it can withstand time and space then it can surely survive on its own.

Now that I think about it, we only have one small aspect to clear up - the eclipse.

We are essentially going back in time when we are doing the Easter Egg, yes? If we travel back to a particular timeframe, would Area 51 in turn be effected as well, or just that area? I know it sounds ludicrous, but I'm not sure whether to assume that only Shangri-la is affected while the rest of the world is not. It would be making one particular area residing in a different timeframe while still in tact on Earth where it is in the present. A past within the present, coinciding with one another?

[bagel_]

Wow. That is all very plausible, considering we were not teleported to Area 51. If we were, we would've seen the teleport-like intro that we have on Shangri La, and we had to of gotten there somehow, right? (And I really was wondering how we got from the Himalayas to Area 51.) I had always thought the PaP wobble was just some glitch because we were watching it spawn in, but this really changed my mind on it. Nice job, GRILL.

[zombo187]

I love reading threads this! This kind of stuff gets people inspired to try harder and step their game up. Although I personally can't make the connections between the two, I have no doubt that you know your shxt. I am not very familiar with Shangri-La. I do however remember that there is the two explorers that are stuck in an infinite loop. We are starting to see multiple examples of various things.

Time loops - The exploreres are stuck and need our help, but get trapped again. WE also know that this seems to be the case in Die Rise or even TranZit. Perhaps when we help them we cause the "rift" that richtofen is talking about.

Eclipse - We see multiple maps have the eclipse in it. Shangri-La, I believe, was durring the time warp.

I personally am beginning to think that Shangri-La is in fact changing places. In Moon loading screen, we see the small "Vimana" or pyramid floating through the sky. We also see a whirl wind in the loading screen of Shangri-La that seems to be some sort of electric vortex which I am beginning to believe could be a stronger version of a Gersch Device that is moving Shangri-La somewhere. I originally thought that the location was Agartha or Inner Earth. After this thread though, I am forced to wonder all over again.

Also as a conspiracy theorist in general, I know alot about the real Area 51. Or at least as much as a Civ can think they know. Most of the actual base is located underground. This is true for many clandestine military bases. Although I don't believe that a secret bunker would have such noticeable air or water vents on the surface. I do believe you are correct in general tho. The city moves in time and space for mysterious reasons. Possibly relating to the focusing stone or just the sheer amount of 115 and Vril energy.

I'll also say that in Moon we see a mysterious red power up that does nothing. richtofen mentions that possibly it has an effect in another reality. I wonder if we are not only moving between spaces and times, but also realities or dimmensions.

Revisiting our old data with new eyes is THE most important thing we can do at this point. In my opinion anyway...

[Tasty Applesauce]

This is all making a lot of sense but I never understood how the mountains being on mars or whatever turned out to be "zombies best kept secret", it was more or less the only thing people found and really then they didn't find anything but a bunch of theories and screenshots, I still feel there's something that's been majorly overlooked

[InfestLithium]

This is all making a lot of sense but I never understood how the mountains being on mars or whatever turned out to be "zombies best kept secret", it was more or less the only thing people found and really then they didn't find anything but a bunch of theories and screenshots, I still feel there's something that's been majorly overlooked

The mountains would help us pinpoint the true location of Shangri-la. If you look at any and all information regarding them, you'll also come across the videos GRILL posted because they do have significance to the storyline. It's a best kept secret in which it IS overlooked by many, but lead us in the correct general direction.

[charries96]

Grill, this is an amazing theory and I no matter how many times I noclipped at those mountains I don't think I would ever have been able to link the theory like you did. Bravo!

EDIT:

The Shangri La loading screen shows a temple being sucked up, maybe this is how it got to Area 51, hopefully this helps your theory! :)

[GRILL]

@Buscus: thanks bud! I don't know if we will ever fully nail down what the deal is with that mountain, we'll have to see how future maps play out.

@Infest: AAHHH good sir. thank you. This has been something on my mind for the better part of a year, so I'm glad that I finally got it out there for others to reciprocate. Now onto what you said - and yes I wrote you like an 6 paragraph response -

DUDE I have never heard of AUTEC. Good lord, perched on the cusp of the Bermuda Triangle? ...I'll say it again... HOW HAVE I NOT HEARD OF THIS PLACE? I'm going to include this in my information above is that's okay with you.

(PINNAZ, if and when you read this, - have you heard of AUTEC? also - isn't time traveling fun? Being that I'm addressing you in the future from the past. TIME TRAVELERS!)

Alright... I like the points you bring up - let me nerd out for a second...

So to get Shangri-La outside of Area 51, the USA would have had to basically crack the code in terms of the Alien technology. Going with the Shared Mountain theory, the USA figured out a way to move Shangri-La only by location... not by time (or perhaps it was by time, but they figured how to do "same day" travel - if you will). I'm guessing that the Alien technology would run deep under the core structure - think of the actual Shangri-La temples we play in as the tip of the iceburg; this would explain how a whole mountain with trees, streams, etc. could literally move locations.

In regards to location based time travel, It's kind of a cop out and not an accurate metaphor - but think of Back to the Future. When Marty goes back in time, it's the vessel (car) that brings him. I'd go back to saying that the Vril technology probably runs deep underneath Shangri-La. Also totally just taking a stab in the dark, but perhaps the hydro electric system helps conduct whatever source of power needed for travel - thus aiding in keeping the whole structure intact when traveling.

One issue I did not think of in regards to the USA acquiring Shangri-La would be - Brock and Gary. They obviously would have heard Brock and Gary calling for help when activating the transportation... so perhaps it has something to do with Richtofen specifically having the Vril device? Perhaps there was a certain time/place needed for Brock and Gary - and the only way to achieve that time/place was to have the Vril device while activating the pillars.

So the long answer I'd say is that - the perimeter of Shangri-La would be the only actual aspect traveling in time, space, or location. It's not like it just flies up into the air while calender pages rip off the wall in reverse order - it creates a new time line in which Shangri-La existed somewhere else. Shangri-La will always have a timeline in the Himalayas, outside Area 51, on Mars - but they are separate from one another. The only thing that remains constant is the perimeter - which is probably how Brock and Gary got lost in a loop - they went outside of the perimeter before traveling back to their timeline of origin. (MMX - does that all sound right? It was, after all, MMX's brilliant timeline graph that got me thinking on such a level. Check it out here if you haven't seen it.)

The eclipse - hm, I really don't have answer for this one. Perhaps it's in the eye of the beholder - if you will? That's a cop out, though. What do you think, friendo ?

Thanks for the input again.

@Bagel: thanks muchacho! I strive to blow minds.

@Zombo: I love that you love reading threads like this, and even more love reading threads like this myself. Those are all great points that you bring up, especially about revisiting old material with new eyes.

@Tasty: yeah, "best kept secret" is a phrase that doesn't get thrown around a lot. As I said in the OP, Tac's thread this summer was what got us all thinking REALLY outside of the box. This is just another attempt to think outside the box, and I'm for sure not claiming this is the secret or anything.

@Charries: hey thanks man! Yes maybe the temple being sucked up was a metaphor for it's ability to travel through time/place/location.

[InfestLithium]

The eclipse - hm, I really don't have answer for this one. Perhaps it's in the eye of the beholder - if you will? That's a cop out, though. What do you think, friendo ?

That AUTEC information was a very good read. It wasn't all too surprising since it's common knowledge that many top-secret bases would be tucked away underground. But to think the Bermuda Triangle...wow. Conspiracies are floating around like butterflies now, just yearning to be caught.

The eclipse is very hard to explain, so I do hope that I could nail this one deep enough on the head.

When activating the eclipse, you are doing the work of a teleporter - going back in time. Upon reverting back in time, we notice the meteor as just struck the temple where Pack-a-Punch resides. Considering that this is still fairly fresh and Brock & Gary were still alive, we didn't venture too far back. No specific date is mentioned and the cycle vigorously continues because Brock touched the 115-infested meteoric, causing a time distortion in which time would repeat itself.

P51. Inside, they found a plaque with Richtofen’s name carved upon it as well as the shrunken meteor, also known as the Focusing Stone. Brock touched it. It is unknown why or how, but the Focusing Stone, apparently having just been shrunken, was extremely unstable and its 115 properties changed time. It reset events for Brock and Gary back to when they first arrived. This put them in a recursion that could only be escaped by death. Tank, Nikolai, Takeo, and Richtofen used the teleporter to again teleport away.

What does this tell us? Well, for one, we are altering the time flow not just in Shangri-la, but everywhere else. The Sun doesn't belong to Shangri, nor does the eclipse. Since we are going with your theory, we can say that Shangri-la shares the same sky just as Area 51 does. When I tried to reason with myself how the eclipse would react outside the location, I thought of something similar to this:

Note that the half-dome is encompassing Shangri-la so we could examine it carefully. Now there are several outputs that could happen here. This one displays events only occurring within Shangri-la, but Area 51 and what you can call the "outside world" is not affected.

In this scenario, everything is affected regardless of any conditions. I believe this to be true more than having only one are affected and not the other. I'm unsure of the events that were unfolding in Hangar 18 during the time of Shangri-la, but whatever it could have been, time kept reversing itself. The only thing that changed as a result of altering the past was resizing the meteorite and perhaps modifying a few underground contraptions (the sames ones Brock and Gary were attempting to bypass).

In essence, the idea that the Original Crew went through a different form of time travel is quite plausible. Ancient Vril technology was used, just as you said, to revert the time flow. We didn't make huge changes in history; only a minor stepping stone that benefited Richtofen by allowing him the Focusing Stone.

[zombo187]

Is it also possible that our characters are in multiple locations at once? pehaps the time/space travel has caused a seperation of selves. Sounds crazy I know but it possibly could explain the multiple eclipses and the time loops or deja vu that the characters experience as well as the Who's Who. These characters could even possibly share memories through some form of quantum entanglement.

I don't have any real evidence to support this theory other than a few coincidences but it could stand to explain an aspect of the game we dont fully understand.

to visualize this picture each \ as a reality and each * as the aether.

\*\*\*\ = multiple realities with the single unified aether in between. This model reflects real alternatives to the Big Bang Theory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ekpyrotic_universe

To sum up, this theory is an alternative to The Big Bang Theory that says instead of a super dense and hot singularity exploding and rapidly expanding, we have multiple realities or "parallel universes" whatever you may call them that exist entirely in "Branes" which for all intents and purposes can be represented as a sheet hanging vertically. Imagine there are two parallel "branes" that are positioned next to eachother but do not contact eachother. Imagine for some unknown reason the two "Branes" were to contact eachother. One universe's properties would be transfered over to the other universe.

In the context of the original theory the two "branes" contact would cause energy from universe A to transfer to universe B. Hence the Big Bang.

For a fictional context like zombies perhaps we traveled between "branes" through a forced contact caused by richtofens grand scheme.

This would cause 1 universe to have 2 of the same person? No, quantam mechanics tells us that paradox such as this cannot happen, nature would correct the paradox long before it had a chance to occur.

sorry for being so long winded, but my theory wouldnt have made sense without a brief explination.

[GRILL]

mr. infest - I am still wrapping my head around your response (with wonderful images to support it). please allow me a couple days so I can reply in an intelligent manner :D

[OPLRazor]

I Do like how you have looked into this and iam willing to support it by bringing up the loading screens for Shang,Moon, and Nuketown.

The key thing about the moon loading screen that is often over looked i think is the fact that in the first panel with the pyramid it clearly states "Mean while"

Now for Shang,

What Seems to inter rest me the most is the fact that there appears to be alot of electricity / energy

So the events being depicted by the Shangri la loading screen are happening right before / during moon, and it is know that nuketown takes place during moon but no one seems to really know what the loading screen is about but this theory could explain it. the loading screen of nuketown shows what appears to be qiute a large machine from the sky that is taking in energy from long distances and actully from what i remember from shangri la is that it had a lot of 115 in the area so possibly this machine we see in the nuketown loading screen could be converting the energy to be used for another purpose

Also note that the loading screen has noticeable mountains in the back

Again More things to think about xD

[MysteryMachineX]

Well first of all, about me saying Earth, let me clarify. I believe Shangri-La WAS on Mars, but isn't anymore. There's too much evidence saying that it is currently on Earth.

While the Pack-A-Punch's wobbling is strange, there might be a simpler reason for it. For example, we know that we arrive in that area due to teleporting, yes? This is the first time we have arrived through teleporation right next to the Pack-A-Punch. Is it not too far fetched to say that the Pack-A-Punch's wobbling is a direct result of it being shaken by the chaotic event that is teleportation happening right next to it?

Also, grates are grates. I don't think that the grates being in Shangri-La and No Man's Land looking similar proves anything. And honestly, they don't even look that similar to me. Think of poison and evolution. According to the theory of evolution, poison evolved on MANY separate occasions because of similar needs. Similarly, a device built for you to sit on has similarities to a chair, no matter where it was built.

Also, the mountains in No Man's Land look nothing like the ones in Shangri-La to me. They are much flatter and less steep.

We know Shangri-La happened in the Himalayas. But you say it could've moved sometime before then. The last time it moved, we had the Vril-Ya to blame. Who would we blame this time? It would now the technological age, yes? Wouldn't someone have noticed? But you say the U.S. government noticed. I don't think so. The size of Shangri-La is simply too massive. You can't put that next to Area 51 and have no one notice. Also, we have no way of knowing HOW Shangri-La was moved. We just know the Vril-Ya did it, somehow. The buttons being pressed, that does time travel. We have not seen them do space travel, so we should be cautious before assuming that.

While there is water flowing downhill in Shangri-La, how does it flow up into Area 51? My guess as to how the water got there is as good as yours, but I fail to see how water would flow up. I suppose there could be a reservoir below that is seeping into the ground. However, if Shangri-La was next to Area 51, it would run out of water. This is because Area 51 is in NEVADA. Water is not common there. In fact, that is how Nevada got its shape. The government stretched out one corner of it so that it could reach water that it otherwise would not have had. I think the water reservoir in No Man's Land comes from artificial means, not a natural river, not even an irrigation system. It would make more sense to simply come from the same place the rest of Nevada gets its water from.

Also, we know the Soviets took control of Shangri-La from the Lunar Landers present there. It made sense, since the Himalayas aren't that far from Russia. I think that would conflict with the U.S. government running it.

The Focusing Stone... it honestly just doesn't make sense. If the buttons make them go back in time, they then see the Focusing Stone unscathed. However, if Shangri-La had moved, then they'd be in the middle of a desert, wouldn't they? Not to mention that how could the Focusing Stone be right under their noses if at the time it was a giant meteor crashed into the temple?

I think Richtofen went to No Man's Land because he knew he needed to get to Griffin Station. Why didn't he go there directly? I think there may have been a physical spatial range issue, but that is just a guess. Perhaps we went to No Man's Land to get the Kasimir plates first? But it turns out the two were linked with a teleporter. Either way, Richtofen knew Area 51 was going to have something interesting relating to 115. He could have just been trying his luck.

Sorry I had nothing good to say. But I operate on the belief that facts are points, theories are lines. The best theory will be a straight line through the points. The theory to me seems unnecessarily crooked. I use this example when explaining this: Richtofen teleported from point A to point B. We know this. Did he stop for doughnuts in between points A and B? It is possible, but highly unlikely.

[GRILL]

MMX - thanks for the response. I welcome your opinion, and it is truly through disproving that we can come to a consensus.

While the Pack-A-Punch's wobbling is strange, there might be a simpler reason for it. For example, we know that we arrive in that area due to teleporting, yes? This is the first time we have arrived through teleporation right next to the Pack-A-Punch. Is it not too far fetched to say that the Pack-A-Punch's wobbling is a direct result of it being shaken by the chaotic event that is teleportation happening right next to it?

This is a fantastic point. The velocity from the teleportation could indeed have shaken the PaP. Considering that's the breadth of what this outlandish theory was based on, I'm thinking this is the most logical reasoning (and is one of the reasons why I wanted to reach out to you - you are logic in human form )

Also, grates are grates. I don't think that the grates being in Shangri-La and No Man's Land looking similar proves anything. And honestly, they don't even look that similar to me. ... a device built for you to sit on has similarities to a chair, no matter where it was built.

very true. I wasn't as much going for "grates + grates = connection" - more so in a supportive manner. The water feeding into the grates in Shangri-La DOES go somewhere, in fact it leads directly to the "Mars Mountain" (for lack of a better term).

Also, the mountains in No Man's Land look nothing like the ones in Shangri-La to me. They are much flatter and less steep.

To be fair - we're talking about one mountain. One mountain that is clearly visible from Shangri-La may not look the same from much further away. Also, are you accounting in the view of the mountain when the eclipse is activated? Looks much different. Regardless, I agree that they do not look identical and thus weakens the connection.

The buttons being pressed, that does time travel. We have not seen them do space travel, so we should be cautious before assuming that.

My bad I thought it was generally accepted that Shangri-La could teleport through time and space.

I wasn't saying that Shangri-La moved before Mars. Himalayas > Mars > ? (perhaps back to the Himalayas) > Nevada.

While there is water flowing downhill in Shangri-La, how does it flow up into Area 51? My guess as to how the water got there is as good as yours, but I fail to see how water would flow up.

I am not saying that water flows uphill over the mountain. I'm saying it's either a faux mountain that has an irrigation system running underneath it, or a mountain hollowed out to be a bunker with an irrigation system running through/underneath it. Regardless, I am in NO WAY claiming water runs uphill.

And in regards how it would get up into NML, my guess is as good as yours. A geiser through the grate? We have seen geiser's in Shangri-La.

I suppose there could be a reservoir below that is seeping into the ground. However, if Shangri-La was next to Area 51, it would run out of water. This is because Area 51 is in NEVADA. Water is not common there. In fact, that is how Nevada got its shape. The government stretched out one corner of it so that it could reach water that it otherwise would not have had. I think the water reservoir in No Man's Land comes from artificial means, not a natural river, not even an irrigation system. It would make more sense to simply come from the same place the rest of Nevada gets its water from.

Fair enough. Given what you said about the reservoir/water in NML - would you think the water came from the grate? Perhaps in a geiser like fashion? If it happened soon enough, this could have caused the PaP rocking.

Also, we know the Soviets took control of Shangri-La from the Lunar Landers present there. It made sense, since the Himalayas aren't that far from Russia. I think that would conflict with the U.S. government running it.

Doesn't this kind of contradict what you said above about "people noticing". If the Soviets can take control, then surely anyone could. Brock and Gary were English, so what about the English taking control - or wanting too. The most logical explanation is that Brock & Gary were explorers, but did they simply venture out to Shangri-La on their own accord? I'm sure they were working with the Govt. I guess what I'm trying to say is that - before the information technology age, in the 1900's, so many explorations were done for mystical places - from the fountain of youth to Agartha. If the US could have pulled off the move before the information technology age, then it could have been concealed from the "knowing eye". Think of NORAD and the Cheyenne Mountain nuclear bunker

Do you see a bunker? No because it's hidden inside of the mountain. It's a no fly zone as well. Now let's apply this to the Shared Mountain theory: if the US were able to take command of Shangri-La after mars but before the information technology age, and they were able to stage an elaborate housing within the nearby mountain range - who would find out? Being a "no-fly zone" and everything, the US could keep Shangri-La under wraps relatively easily.

The Focusing Stone... it honestly just doesn't make sense. If the buttons make them go back in time, they then see the Focusing Stone unscathed. However, if Shangri-La had moved, then they'd be in the middle of a desert, wouldn't they? Not to mention that how could the Focusing Stone be right under their noses if at the time it was a giant meteor crashed into the temple?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if they go back in time - aren't they creating a new timeline in which Shangri-La existed wherever they go? Regardless of the location, if you go back in time - that event happened regardless (the focusing stone). I think one key factor we're all kind of not taking about is the difference between the origin point of time travel and the landing point.

The 4 pillars are timed, so we might say time travel in Shangri-La goes something like this:

Origin > Landing Point > Origin

If the landing point is simply another timeline, than it's always existed there - and in that respect it wouldn't matter where you had Shangri-La positioned. The crashed focusing stone would always be in the past, and regardless of if your origin was the himalayas, mars, or nevada - you could always be brought there by activating the pillars.

If you control the origin, then the landing point (regardless of what timeline) stays constant... right?

On a separate note, how would the US know how to deal with the Focusing Stone? Dr. Maxis (I believe) invented the JGB - why would the US have access to that gun? Plus in the interest of canon, the mystery boxes appear through Samantha - so unless the O4 were in the vicinity the JGB and accompanying mystery boxes would be non-existant. I may be completely off.

I think Richtofen went to No Man's Land because he knew he needed to get to Griffin Station. Why didn't he go there directly? I think there may have been a physical spatial range issue, but that is just a guess. Perhaps we went to No Man's Land to get the Kasimir plates first? But it turns out the two were linked with a teleporter. Either way, Richtofen knew Area 51 was going to have something interesting relating to 115. He could have just been trying his luck.

Very true and quite interesting the point you make about why Richtofen doesn't simply teleport directly to Griffen Station. That really is a head scratcher.

Sorry I had nothing good to say. But I operate on the belief that facts are points, theories are lines. The best theory will be a straight line through the points. The theory to me seems unnecessarily crooked.

No apologies needed, my friend. I love discussion, and it would suck if everyone simply agreed all the time. You are an outspoken voice on CODZ, and I'm honored to have you outspeak against my thread

Did he stop for doughnuts in between points A and B? It is possible, but highly unlikely.

A little crude, but I get it. However, I will say that in figuring out if he got donuts - we could then proceed to who made the donuts, and if there was coffee included.

Thanks again, MMX. I super appreciate your response.

[MysteryMachineX]

No problem.

This is a fantastic point. The velocity from the teleportation could indeed have shaken the PaP. Considering that's the breadth of what this outlandish theory was based on, I'm thinking this is the most logical reasoning (and is one of the reasons why I wanted to reach out to you - you are logic in human form )

Lol thank you. That is very kind.

very true. I wasn't as much going for "grates + grates = connection" - more so in a supportive manner. The water feeding into the grates in Shangri-La DOES go somewhere, in fact it leads directly to the "Mars Mountain" (for lack of a better term).

I understand, and that is true as well.

To be fair - we're talking about one mountain. One mountain that is clearly visible from Shangri-La may not look the same from much further away. Also, are you accounting in the view of the mountain when the eclipse is activated? Looks much different. Regardless, I agree that they do not look identical and thus weakens the connection.

I disagree. I think if you get protractor out and measure the angles of the mountains from their peaks you'll get completely different measurements.

My bad I thought it was generally accepted that Shangri-La could teleport through time and space.

Well we think it was on Mars. However, what moved them to Mars? It's been generally accepted that the Vril-Ya did it. Now I do suppose they could have used those buttons, but I think it is probably something we cannot even imagine. Technology so beyond our time that could move a location.

I wasn't saying that Shangri-La moved before Mars. Himalayas > Mars > ? (perhaps back to the Himalayas) > Nevada.

I was. Earth > Mars > Earth.

I am not saying that water flows uphill over the mountain. I'm saying it's either a faux mountain that has an irrigation system running underneath it, or a mountain hollowed out to be a bunker with an irrigation system running through/underneath it. Regardless, I am in NO WAY claiming water runs uphill.

And in regards how it would get up into NML, my guess is as good as yours. A geiser through the grate? We have seen geiser's in Shangri-La.

I was under the impression the Martian mountain was simply forgotten, the last trace of the mighty civilization's past.

Fair enough. Given what you said about the reservoir/water in NML - would you think the water came from the grate? Perhaps in a geiser like fashion? If it happened soon enough, this could have caused the PaP rocking.

I really don't think so. Look at the pools of water. They're stagnant. You'd get a disease from drinking that. I think it is more likely to be water having seeped. Theoretically it could have spouted from a geyser, but it doesn't look it to me.

Doesn't this kind of contradict what you said above about "people noticing". If the Soviets can take control, then surely anyone could. Brock and Gary were English, so what about the English taking control - or wanting too. The most logical explanation is that Brock & Gary were explorers, but did they simply venture out to Shangri-La on their own accord? I'm sure they were working with the Govt. I guess what I'm trying to say is that - before the information technology age, in the 1900's, so many explorations were done for mystical places - from the fountain of youth to Agartha. If the US could have pulled off the move before the information technology age, then it could have been concealed from the "knowing eye". Think of NORAD and the Cheyenne Mountain nuclear bunker

Yes, entirely. The Vril-Ya inhabited Shangri-La. When they left, Asians inhabited. Then the Nazis took over. Then the Soviets took over. But I don't think the solution is to just add Americans to the list. Brock and Gary weren't representing any government. They were some hybrid of scientist and explorer, trying to prove Agartha. Do you really think the government would support a trip trying to find Agartha? Keep in mind that that was around the '90's, minimum, given by the radio.

Do you see a bunker? No because it's hidden inside of the mountain. It's a no fly zone as well. Now let's apply this to the Shared Mountain theory: if the US were able to take command of Shangri-La after mars but before the information technology age, and they were able to stage an elaborate housing within the nearby mountain range - who would find out? Being a "no-fly zone" and everything, the US could keep Shangri-La under wraps relatively easily.

But it would have to be IN the information technology age, because Brock and Gary had '90's styled radios.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if they go back in time - aren't they creating a new timeline in which Shangri-La existed wherever they go? Regardless of the location, if you go back in time - that event happened regardless (the focusing stone). I think one key factor we're all kind of not taking about is the difference between the origin point of time travel and the landing point.

The 4 pillars are timed, so we might say time travel in Shangri-La goes something like this:

Origin > Landing Point > Origin

If the landing point is simply another timeline, than it's always existed there - and in that respect it wouldn't matter where you had Shangri-La positioned. The crashed focusing stone would always be in the past, and regardless of if your origin was the himalayas, mars, or nevada - you could always be brought there by activating the pillars.

If you control the origin, then the landing point (regardless of what timeline) stays constant... right?

Okay, so you solve that by having the travel constrained to the device. That works.

There's no need for alternate timelines. We have no paradoxes that call for it. But still, the Focusing Stone would be in plain sight.

On a separate note, how would the US know how to deal with the Focusing Stone? Dr. Maxis (I believe) invented the JGB - why would the US have access to that gun? Plus in the interest of canon, the mystery boxes appear through Samantha - so unless the O4 were in the vicinity the JGB and accompanying mystery boxes would be non-existant. I may be completely off.

Maxis did invent it. And I can tell you that I have no idea why they would have it. Or rather, they wouldn't...

Are you trying to explain why the 31-79 JGb215 appears in the Mystery Box? That's kind of a lost cause. Trying to find significance in that is like trying to figure out how Double-Tap Root Beer works. It just does. My best guess, if I had to try to explain it, would be that Samantha fills the Box with weapons of general interest. However she does not know weapons well enough to get the right time period exactly right, which is why you see guns from varying areas. When you go to a place that has a new Wonder Weapon, she thinks it is cool and adds it to the Box.

Very true and quite interesting the point you make about why Richtofen doesn't simply teleport directly to Griffen Station. That really is a head scratcher.

Yes. I would file that under why Richtofen said the things he did when he arrived in Kino. Dozens of possible reasons, any one could be acceptable. And we will probably never be told which of the reasons is the right one.

No apologies needed, my friend. I love discussion, and it would suck if everyone simply agreed all the time. You are an outspoken voice on CODZ, and I'm honored to have you outspeak against my thread

Thank you. I appreciate it. Now I have to vote for you for User of the Month. (Well I don't, but now I feel compelled. Not because of the flattery but because of your invitation.)

A little crude, but I get it. However, I will say that in figuring out if he got donuts - we could then proceed to who made the donuts, and if there was coffee included.

Thanks again, MMX. I super appreciate your response.

Well, it's meant to be jocular. But it does hold a point. And lol. But you actually bring up a valid point. However, I don't want to say what it is because it involves Die Rise being in the future and... well some people hate me for that, so yeah... let me know if you care about this, which you only will if you agree with me on that.

Anyhow, thank you.

[InfestLithium]

I'm taking into large consideration of what MMX said (a great explanation and fresh perspective, friendo), and I can't stop thinking that it may be possible the Pack-a-Punch machine teleports with us to Area 51? I now it's incredulous and pretty far out there to think of, but it's just another small perspective placed onto the table.

[GRILL]

@MMX: You've given me many things to think about, thanks for the detailed response! Also, thanks for the UOTM vote - I def was not going for flattery, I wanted to move forward, and that can only be done by questioning what you know.

@Infest: Bloody simply brilliant. I'm thinking this is the most simple explanation, and it makes the most sense. BUT would that mean that all perks travel with the O4? I always thought the perks were just in the facilities for experimentation before they were overrun...

[InfestLithium]

The perks wouldn't travel with the O4 possibly due to redundancy, or because the area in which the teleportation field encompasses is to the exact limits/dimensions of the temple. This can be seen in the Moon loading screen.

When the Shangri-la Easter Egg is finished, we actually leave off at Richtofen obtaining the Focusing Stone on his shrine near the top of the temple. The task has been completed and the temple begins to be sucked into the time distortion vortex seen on Shangri-la's loading screen. And what could have teleported alongside the temple? Our O4 and the Pack-a-Punch machine.

[bagel_]

Wait a second. You know how either Jug or Speed Cola gets zapped in then floats down out of the sky every time you spawn back in Area 51? It has literally the exact same look as the Shangri La loading screen lightning bolts hitting the ground, as well as the ones we see as the hellhounds spawning in.

Though they're not in the exact dimensions of the temple, we see the other stuff getting sucked up too. What happened to these other ones? Bringing the one in space into consideration, maybe to other places? Perhaps the Perk machines travelled elsewhere and Sam zapped them to us.

[InfestLithium]

So you're saying that because everything seems to be getting sucked into the vortex, that the structures and perk machines (along with anything else) could have been distributed to certain areas over time and space, bagel? Considering that the vortex is a distortion of either time or space, then I'd say that it's very plausible! :)

[brambley9]

As stated above there is the theory of a shared mountain and the thought that the US has used its knowledge of matter/time teleporters to bring the shangri la mountains to them.

I would like to build on this theory and suggest that shangri la is located in or near the grand canyon.

This would explain the large cliff/canyon seen in the shangri la loading screen.

Area 51 is located roughly 450km from the grand canyon. This is a large distance but it corresponds with what is seen from the no clip in NML of the mountains way off in the distance.

(this image also shows how desert and luscious green areas can be side by side, like in shangri la)

Location "B" on the above picture is the grand canyon national park. Just above this location is a large mountain(Kaibab Plateau) which could be the shared mountain.

This is my first meaningful post on the forums so please feel free to share any tips or thoughts you have.

P.S. Its late and im tired so this might not make any sense at all.

and well done Grill on such an interesting and plausible theory.

[zombo187]

I can't say I see a direct connection, but I do think you may be on to something.

There is evidence of similar mesoamerican cultures that once resided in the grand canyon. Although no temples such as this have ever been discovered, the Shangri-La loading screen seems to imply that the structures were destroyed or moved and may not be where they once were.

[bagel_]

I'd like to add one more thing to this.

If when we activate the eclipse, we only go back in time, then we must still be near Area 51, correct? Well, considering Brock and Gary had '90's styled radios, and there was only one almost full solar eclipse above entire United States in the 90's. (excluding Hawaii and Alaska.) This occurred on May 10, 1994, between 2:12 PM and 8:10 PM UTC, or the time zone for Area 51. Now, looking back at the in-game eclipse, it was near the maximum eclipse range.

This means that the actual time we would travel back to would be between 3:20-5:13 PM UTC, giving us the exact time where we travelled back to.

Naturally, I researched the date to see if it was of any significance, but the only thing that appeared to be of actual importance was Nelson Mendela's inauguration to be South Africa's first black president. (Darn, I was hoping for something to do with meteor/focusing crystal crashes.)

The only question I have out of this is why two British explorers were near Area 51 in the U.S. Maybe they were in it while it actually moved? Seems stretched, but we don't know too much about those two, nor how the temple moves, so who knows. Maybe they were spies?

Whatever the option is, the possibilities branch directly off of two things. Either:

1) The temple travelled back through time and space. - We know the time period was the 1990's.

2) The temple travelled back in time. - Agreeing with your theory, we know it occurred on May 10, 1994 between 3:20-5:13 PM UTC.

[bagel_]

Though I do know this threads been off for a week, I feel the need to bring up something about the wobbling PaP.

So today I started up a game of Survival on Town. As I spawned, I noticed that the PaP turned from off to on, and as it turned on, it started wobbling the exact same way as the one at NML. I've been trying to upload this video along with a few snapshots I took for other threads, but ELITE says I have no videos, even though I can clearly see them in my player channel on my console.

The best I could get is this: (skip to 0:50, you can sort of see it on the side of his screen.)

2U-wlxGjNn0

We can see that the PaP didn't just rise out of the lava, also. It appears as though there may not be as much significance as it seemed. Sorry, friend. :|