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My thoughts about the ending of the zombies story: Die Rise


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Posted

Hey guys,

I finally want to share you my thoughts about the future of black ops II zombies, after having kept them to myself for a very long time.

I'll begin by telling you what I discovered during my first playthrough of tranzit. I found out that Samuel was eating the zombies, which many of you did, but I also discovered that the next zombie map would take place in China. This has been proven correct. I was also thinking that Russman would die in the forseeable future, which has also happened in Die Rise.

Well, while watching the loading screen animated comic on solo (Die Rise), I also thought of something:

Maxis has a reason to want the things that happen during the Easter Eggs to happen: to take over the zombies and to defeat Richtofen.

Does Richtofen have a reason as well..?

Samuel is hearing two kinds of voices. The voice of Richtofen, which we can all hear clearly, and a vague other voice, which we don't understand. I believe that the other voice, is the voice that Richtofen hears in his head (remember that Richtofen was also hearing voices, voices that drove him mad). I believe that Richtofens purpose in the Easter Eggs is to get rid of the voices in his head, who are still trying to get the upper head. Richtofens Schrizophrenia is also shown in the opening animation: first Samuel is asked to do something, immediately afterwards he is attacked by zombies; Russman gets killed by the zombies, but Richtofen brings him back to life.

It seems like Richtofen is combatting the voices in his head to gain the upper hand, it seems to me that Richtofen is a good person, and that everyone should do the Richtofen side's of the Easter Eggs. I do not know in which way it will affect the final result, but Maxis is evil and we can't let him win. When Richtofen will have defeated his inner enemies, he will end this.

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Posted

I always thought Richtofen was hearing either Maxis or Samantha in WAW/BO. But I'm pretty sure the demonic voice is just Richtofen in Die Rise. It's just the sound that WE hear. But Samuel can interpret it. Like another language kind of. I see a lot of people talk about the intro to Die Rise and how there are two different voices. But I'm pretty sure they're the same.

Posted

"but I also discovered that the next zombie map would take place in China"

How? When?

I found out that Samuel was eating the zombies

Pure speculation. As i've said before when people mention this and explain it by his comments about being hungry.. he's a fat guy. Misty calls him fat all the time. Fat guys are hungry.

"I was also thinking that Russman would die in the forseeable future, which has also happened in Die Rise."

Russman is fine in Die Rise, as he's a playable character. The story in the beginning that shows him dying is fluff. It's fun way of showing that playing the same map over and over can sorta be tied into the story. Same as when you get to the bank in Tanzit.. hey, we've been here before? Because the users have been here before. Every character dies over and over and over and over until they get it right and move forward to the next map. Since World at War. Same thing.

it seems to me that Richtofen is a good person

Uhhhmm... not really, no? Evil crazy Nazi mad scientist? Here's his bio quote from WaW:

This is Dr. Richtofen, known affectionately as "The Butcher" to his victims as they scream in agony moments before he snuffs out their light. All through his career, Richtofen has been at the forefront of torture and information extraction research. Richtofen is an incurable sociopath and sees no moral distinction between natural death and murder; the victim is the victim, regardless of how their demise manifests itself.

As for the speculation about he voices, in like it.

Posted

Before I say anything, here's a video of the cutscene so I can point something out.

Hm4FTcrbpBk

At approx. 1:05, we hear the demonic voice pretty clearly say, "Accept your fate, begin anew!" and then a few seconds later, we hear Richtofen clearly say "Accept your fate, begin anew!" From this, we have evidence to say either that the demonic voice is just Richtofen, or it's another voice. Samantha did change her voice sometimes, saying things like "CARPENTER!" and such, but Samantha did also mention there being "something way worse than Richtofen" in the Aether also. On top of that, Richtofen heard other voices, too. So if there is Richtofen and others with him talking to Stu, then why do they both want him to accept his fate and begin anew? Maybe Richtofen has sided with these other voices, or maybe they are using him as a puppet so they can gain access to our dimension? Who knows. Besides the devs.

Seriously devs, just tell me the f****** answers.

Posted

Here's why.

Accept your fate: It's a survival game and you WILL die, and lose. Accept it.

Begin anew: Play again, do better. Try again.

Game solo intro, they all die. Then they spawn again. Same as all of us do when we play, every single time, with a sense of deja-vu. Because it's the same for us.. we play it, it's new, it's exciting, then we all start to learn and understand the map, and get better and better. I love you guys, but sometimes you read way, way too much into this. It's just a nice way of tying a repetitive survival mode into a nice story with some time travel and what-have-you to make up the fluff for it.

Posted

At approx. 1:05, we hear the demonic voice pretty clearly say, "Accept your fate, begin anew!" and then a few seconds later, we hear Richtofen clearly say "Accept your fate, begin anew!" From this, we have evidence to say either that the demonic voice is just Richtofen, or it's another voice. Samantha did change her voice sometimes, saying things like "CARPENTER!" and such, but Samantha did also mention there being "something way worse than Richtofen" in the Aether also. On top of that, Richtofen heard other voices, too. So if there is Richtofen and others with him talking to Stu, then why do they both want him to accept his fate and begin anew? Maybe Richtofen has sided with these other voices, or maybe they are using him as a puppet so they can gain access to our dimension? Who knows. Besides the devs.

Seriously devs, just tell me the f****** answers.

Very well put bagel, just about what I was gonna say. The voices that Richtofen heard and the "something far darker than you lies here" are most likely a reference to the same power or entity. The voice we could be hearing is Richtofen's controller (if there is someone using Ed as a host). Or it could have just been Treyarch's way of telling us that when we hear this garbled voice, that it's Richtofen that's speaking, even if we can't make out what he says. It's hard for me to say either way, but it feels like it was just a distortion of Richtofen's voice or just the way Samuel hears his voice during the maps.

Samantha did have one interesting quote from Moon in regards to the voices, after switching places with Richtofen and entering his body:

No,NO! I hear the voices in YOUR head!” - firesale_2

The current state of "the voices" as far as Black Ops 2 goes is still unknown, but considering Richtofen no longer mentions them, they have either A.) Now controlling Richtofen directly in the Aether, or B.) Are now stuck with Samantha in Richtofen's old body.

Posted

@Shooter Wow, I really like that thought. I actually haven't heard the quote before. Now that you bring it to my attention, I wish I had :lol:

If idea A is correct, then it slides into my idea. If idea B is correct, then perhaps there is something specifically with Richtofen's body that brings the voices he hears to his head? Maybe it's an effect of eating zombie flesh and getting element 115 into his system that way. Of course we don't know that he did, it's just we know Samuel did, their quotes are similar in that fashion, they both hear the voices, etc.

The only thing that stitches me is that all of this can only work if there ARE these other voices with Stu, not just Richtofen's crazy head. I don't know if the demonic voice changing to Richtofen's voice is supposed to tell us it's Richtofen, or something with the same goals or controlling Ed. If only DLC answered questions instead of arising more. *sigh* Until further evidence, I refuse to take sides on this one. I'm only think of possible outcomes for each option.

Posted

this sight on the pap'd AN94 is what i believe is a hint at the EVIL in the aether. It also corresponds with the teleportation color from the normal blue of richtoften or yellow of samantha or maxis. If I were to guess I'd say this is the eyes of the odd sound bite we hear after death in die rise.

Posted

"but I also discovered that the next zombie map would take place in China"

How? When?

I found out that Samuel was eating the zombies

Pure speculation. As i've said before when people mention this and explain it by his comments about being hungry.. he's a fat guy. Misty calls him fat all the time. Fat guys are hungry.

"I was also thinking that Russman would die in the forseeable future, which has also happened in Die Rise."

Russman is fine in Die Rise, as he's a playable character. The story in the beginning that shows him dying is fluff. It's fun way of showing that playing the same map over and over can sorta be tied into the story. Same as when you get to the bank in Tanzit.. hey, we've been here before? Because the users have been here before. Every character dies over and over and over and over until they get it right and move forward to the next map. Since World at War. Same thing.

it seems to me that Richtofen is a good person

Uhhhmm... not really, no? Evil crazy Nazi mad scientist? Here's his bio quote from WaW:

This is Dr. Richtofen, known affectionately as "The Butcher" to his victims as they scream in agony moments before he snuffs out their light. All through his career, Richtofen has been at the forefront of torture and information extraction research. Richtofen is an incurable sociopath and sees no moral distinction between natural death and murder; the victim is the victim, regardless of how their demise manifests itself.

As for the speculation about he voices, in like it.

The only reference to another country in Tranzit is made by Marlton. When he gets a certain weapon, he says: I wouldn't change this for all the tea in China.

It's sooooooo Treyarch to hint us this way, I was certain.

Samuel doesn't talk about being hungry, he talks about the ZOMBIES MAKING him hungry ;)

I don't think they die. Of course, during our gameplays they die, but they don't during the story line. I honestly believe that Richtofen saved Russman...

Und Richtofen was originally working for group 935, which was meant to improve prosperity of mankind or something. It was a beneficial cause though. It wasn't until Richie was teleported to the MPD and touched it, and the voices entered him, that he started to show signs of insanity.

Posted

I believe that the voice Samuel hears is Richtofens voice. A number of reasons why is that, he didn't keep it a secret he hears voices in his head, ever since TranZit he has been blurting it out. He has never mentioned a second voice. Why would he keep that a secret and let everyone know about the Richtofen stuff.

Also, at the beginning, when the crew are in the elevator on the Cut Scene, you here "Accept your fate, begin a new" twice. Why twice? Because richtofen wanted us to know and Sam to know that this is the reason they can respawn. It is a secret everyone wanted to know, so he just repeats him self to make it known. This is treyarch deliberately making us drawn to that point where it is said twice, just for this reason.

Also, the only other voice that could be in the Either is Gersh's. However in Acsension we set him free, so I doubt it.

Posted

so what about the other sound when playing as samuel of the groaning zombie-like sound that cries when you shoot zombies , its not richto so it is 2 voices he hears

go to 1:00 for the sounds

xh6LAtPZ8Ns

Posted

This is just Richtofen. I think treyarch made it annoying enough including the voices, but if it was Richtofens normal voice that was used, that would be too annoying.

It is just Richtofen, made less annoying.

Posted

"Accept your fate, begin anew!" Is a very strong reference to Buddhist ideology.

Accept your Fate.

1. Create a Mindful atmosphere both externally and internally.

2. Express thanks to the other for who they are or what they have done. (sounds easy, but imagine how angry you are with someone, this is the last thing you want to do)

3. Express your apology for how you may have caused harm in the relationship (even harder to do, to admit fault when your eyes are peeled on what is the fault of the other)

4. Express the pain you feel when the other does whatever the other does, and what your need is.

To Beginning Anew.

1. Create Mindfulness in ourselves. (the quality of attention that is open, accepting, curious, non judging—using breath and an embodied practice)

2. Offer appreciation for what we have done.

3. Offer our own mourning for how we have not aligned with our intention.

4.Express what we long for, rooted in our strength, acknowledge what we might be able to change.

http://www.psychalive.org/2012/01/how-to-begin-again-from-wounds-to-wisdom-by-diane-renz-lp/

Posted

@TBGxRyan While I actually lean towards your side of the argument with it being just Richtofen, we still MUST account for the possibility of it being another voice. Let's not forget Samantha's quote on Moon about there being something "darker" than Richtofen in the Aether. This is what I would speculate the other voice to be. I find the demonic voice to be very annoying, actually. What makes it even more annoying is the fact that it is ridiculously inaudible.

Now, it is odd that we hear "Accept your fate, begin anew!" twice. While it could be to tell us the demonic voice is Richtofen, it could also be to show us the other voice shares the same goal as Richtofen. We don't have enough evidence to prove either side of it yet. It's all about perspective ;)

Posted

Oh no doubt this voice is not something to over look. You see I believe this entity to be lucifer that controls any soul that is willing. Richtofen is becoming his puppet and he realizes this in the MPD. He know the voices in his head lied and its possible Edward is trying to separate from that entity in Aether, but he is not as strong with out it. making this other voice faint and hard to hear. It is painful for him. It is speculated that Edward was the man and Richtofen was the voice in his head and he let it manifest in him.

Posted

very insightful RequixEclipse , I did not know the relevance of the quote. +1

Thank you I am always willing to she'd light on a topic if asked. I'm always doing research it's my hobby you could say. Lol :)

Posted

Samuel is hearing two kinds of voices. The voice of Richtofen, which we can all hear clearly, and a vague other voice, which we don't understand. I believe that the other voice, is the voice that Richtofen hears in his head (remember that Richtofen was also hearing voices, voices that drove him mad). I believe that Richtofens purpose in the Easter Eggs is to get rid of the voices in his head, who are still trying to get the upper head. Richtofens Schrizophrenia is also shown in the opening animation: first Samuel is asked to do something, immediately afterwards he is attacked by zombies; Russman gets killed by the zombies, but Richtofen brings him back to life.

It seems like Richtofen is combatting the voices in his head to gain the upper hand, it seems to me that Richtofen is a good person, and that everyone should do the Richtofen side's of the Easter Eggs. I do not know in which way it will affect the final result, but Maxis is evil and we can't let him win. When Richtofen will have defeated his inner enemies, he will end this.

If you don't mind me coming back to this idea, I like how you think Richtofen can still hear the voices in his head. I had thought if he was in control, that would have got rid of them but maybe I was wrong. So perhaps if Samuel and the crew complete Richtofen's tasks, his voices will go away and he might leave Sammy alone too!

However, one thing that's sticking to the back of my mind could be interesting. What if at some point in the story, Samuel decides not to do a task he was set? Would Richtofen tell the crew about "The Flesh"? And what impact would that have on the rest of the story? Ohhhh, the controversy.

Posted

Samuel is hearing two kinds of voices. The voice of Richtofen, which we can all hear clearly, and a vague other voice, which we don't understand. I believe that the other voice, is the voice that Richtofen hears in his head (remember that Richtofen was also hearing voices, voices that drove him mad). I believe that Richtofens purpose in the Easter Eggs is to get rid of the voices in his head, who are still trying to get the upper head. Richtofens Schrizophrenia is also shown in the opening animation: first Samuel is asked to do something, immediately afterwards he is attacked by zombies; Russman gets killed by the zombies, but Richtofen brings him back to life.

It seems like Richtofen is combatting the voices in his head to gain the upper hand, it seems to me that Richtofen is a good person, and that everyone should do the Richtofen side's of the Easter Eggs. I do not know in which way it will affect the final result, but Maxis is evil and we can't let him win. When Richtofen will have defeated his inner enemies, he will end this.

If you don't mind me coming back to this idea, I like how you think Richtofen can still hear the voices in his head. I had thought if he was in control, that would have got rid of them but maybe I was wrong. So perhaps if Samuel and the crew complete Richtofen's tasks, his voices will go away and he might leave Sammy alone too!

However, one thing that's sticking to the back of my mind could be interesting. What if at some point in the story, Samuel decides not to do a task he was set? Would Richtofen tell the crew about "The Flesh"? And what impact would that have on the rest of the story? Ohhhh, the controversy.

I believe Richtofen will do anything at all cost to achieve what he wants. Even if that means exposing Samuels flesh eating ways. Samuel does not want to die you can tell by his quote in Tranzit "I don't want to die! I still haven't figured it all out yet!" He has a desire for truth and knowledge and will keep quiet at all cost to attain such. Obviously there is something in it for Samuel.

Posted

Yes, obviously Samuel is the key element in the whole story. I don't think that Richtofen deliberately made Samuel eat the flesh though. It rather was a happy coincidence for Richtofen, as it makes sense to me that the reason only Samuel can hear Richtofen, is because he has 115 from the zombies in his system.

And to all who say the blurred voice is also Richtofen, I don't know, guys. I mean, while we're doing all these things for Richtofen during the Easter Eggs, he keeps attacking us and tries his hardest to get us all killed. How would that make sense..? Unless Richtofen is not fully in control of the zombies.

To whoever said the other entity was Lucifer, highly unlikely, that's too provocative. I don't think Treyarch would use Lucifer at all during the story line.

Posted

Yes, obviously Samuel is the key element in the whole story. I don't think that Richtofen deliberately made Samuel eat the flesh though. It rather was a happy coincidence for Richtofen, as it makes sense to me that the reason only Samuel can hear Richtofen, is because he has 115 from the zombies in his system.

And to all who say the blurred voice is also Richtofen, I don't know, guys. I mean, while we're doing all these things for Richtofen during the Easter Eggs, he keeps attacking us and tries his hardest to get us all killed. How would that make sense..? Unless Richtofen is not fully in control of the zombies.

To whoever said the other entity was Lucifer, highly unlikely, that's too provocative. I don't think Treyarch would use Lucifer at all during the story line.

Why wouldn't they add Lucifer? Treyarch does mean Illuminati and the Illuminati are a satanic cult who worship him. I think they would use the devil because we have accomplished the Devils revenge. theres an entity far more dark than you Edward Richtofen darker than you can even comprehend Samantha Maxis said Warning him. Treyarch has a very good way of using Lucifer in this story line. We are the puppeteers controlling these character just as the Illuminati play the puppet game. Once they have used up some one or if someone dies then they are off to the next body, to them were a number and easily replaceable. Richtofen is becoming the new puppet of the entity inside of the MPD. MrDalekJD Storyline Videos are a very good reference to that.

Posted

updated with video, I dont believe that is richtoften really why would he moan "he liiiiied he liiiiied"

Yes he would.

He thinks Maxis is lieing, OR he wants you to think that.

Posted

Then we will agree to disagree good sir, I admire your stance on the matter and hopefully when more is revealed we can all revel in our theories and assumptions :lol: :roll:

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