The Blundergat (Wonder Weapon) discussion thread

[MysteryMachineX]

I understand some things need to be redefined. Wonder Weapon is NOT one of them. Everything Electric gives me an example, I can easily refute it. The simplest solution is to not change it at all.

And the so-called agreement from the community is simply ignorance. People see a one-per-team weapon and think "oh, a Wonder Weapon" without realizing that Special Weapons are one-per-team weapons too. And you should never base the community on anything for factual reference, lest we start calling the Bus Driver TEDD again.

And Electric, that's because the Spikemore was based off an existing explosive, while the Jet Gun is simply a weaponized plane part.

It is not a Wonder Weapon if it doesn't shoot 115 prior to upgrading.

[Spartica4Real]

I understand some things need to be redefined. Wonder Weapon is NOT one of them. Everything Electric gives me an example, I can easily refute it. The simplest solution is to not change it at all.

And the so-called agreement from the community is simply ignorance. People see a one-per-team weapon and think "oh, a Wonder Weapon" without realizing that Special Weapons are one-per-team weapons too. And you should never base the community on anything for factual reference, lest we start calling the Bus Driver TEDD again.

And Electric, that's because the Spikemore was based off an existing explosive, while the Jet Gun is simply a weaponized plane part.

It is not a Wonder Weapon if it doesn't shoot 115 prior to upgrading.

Not everything has to be technical.

If we want to call the bus driver "Tedd" instead of "Bus Driver" we can. If we want to call the Blundergat a WW, we can.

[MysteryMachineX]

Yes, you can. Like I said, you can say whatever you want, even if it is incorrect. But you are then making the decision to call something by something other than its proper designation.

[perfectlemonade]

The definition of a Wonder Weapon, originating from a five-year-old game, is old, outdated, and obsolete. Believe it or not, things have changed massively since the Original Four. Perhaps these weapons no longer run on 115, but they are Wonder Weapons in the most literal sense of the term:

They are wonderful.

[InfestLithium]

The definition of a Wonder Weapon, originating from a five-year-old game, is old, outdated, and obsolete. Believe it or not, things have changed massively since the Original Four. Perhaps these weapons no longer run on 115, but they are Wonder Weapons in the most literal sense of the term:

They are wonderful.

This.

Basically, I see Wonder Weapons as an arsenal that cannot be explained as to how it originated realistically, yet created as a supernatural phenomenon. Element 115 is only one of a few examples that would make a Wonder Weapon what it is.

[MysteryMachineX]

Seriously?

It is wonderful. It is special. Tell me then, how do you distinguish a gun that is wonderful from one that is special?

It. Does. Not. Work.

[Electric Jesus]

*sigh*

All I'm saying with the above conversation is that I disagree. I think that weapons could be wonder weapons even without 115 prior to upgrading. I feel like your views on what does and does not need to change is also opinionated and subjective. If its inaccurate it needs to change. Whether it not it is inaccurate is still undetermined, but until then your definition stands. That's what I'm trying to establish now though.

Has it occurred to you that the reason treyarch don't define BOII ones as wonder weapons is because they want the community to decide?

And with the Spikemores, that's kinda my point. The Spikemore starts as a normal weapon and with a slight modification becomes a new innovated weapon. However, the jet gun is a completely original concept. It is invented by treyarch, not innovated. That is what makes it a wonder weapon (by my standards) and why a Spikemore is not.

Now again (forgive the backtrack) why do you say the sliquifier uses 115? Because a piece of my evidence is reliant on the fact that it does not.

And thanks perfect.

By the way, you're right about the misnomer thing with the bus driver for Instance. But we aren't continuing a misnomer by calling them wonder weapons. We are (more accurately) re-defining the term to encompass other wonder weapons which would have been excluded based on the criteria if the previous (inaccurate) definition.

[InfestLithium]

Seriously?

It is wonderful. It is special. Tell me then, how do you distinguish a gun that is wonderful from one that is special?

It. Does. Not. Work.

I don't think he meant wonderful in a literal term, but more of a description that puts these kind of weapons up and beyond the standard norm of regular weapons. The term "Wonder" followed by a noun would generally presume that something is indeed supernatural to some extent.

[MysteryMachineX]

Well you could say I disagree with the fact you choose to disagree.

It's not inaccurate. There is no need to change. The definition works as is. Your biased opinion that it needs to change I find subjective. I gave you the list of what is a Special Weapon versus what is a Wonder Weapon. If you guys are really going to base it on the "feeling of wonderfulness", then I am just going to be done talking with you, as you must've discarded logic for emotion alone.

The Spikemore was an original concept created by Treyarch too. You're being completely picky! Your definition of a Wonder Weapon basically boils down to "this counts because it should; this doesn't because it shouldn't."

The Sliquifier obviously uses 115. It shoots purple-chainging gunk. Marlton says it is in a new state of matter. I do NOT care what your source says.

You are not re-defining anything. You are simply trying to misconstrue standing definitions to encompass the twisted and misinformed delusions that some Zombies players have.

And Infest, are you implying that a weaponized jet turbine has SUPERNATURAL powers?

[Gaycandybacon]

So...... getting back to the Blundergat! :lol:

[Gintama]

Im beginning to feel that MMX holds his own formulated view of what a WW is and what requirements it has to meet to be one.

If you say anything against his view you are wrong, because his view is right and it should be the only view. Not that this is irrational, many people do this, its a trait seen throughout the world.

Not trying to spark anything but it is what this conversation has come down to. It is a one ended conversation if the other does not acknowledge any part of your conversation or argument.

[perfectlemonade]

Seriously?

It is wonderful. It is special. Tell me then, how do you distinguish a gun that is wonderful from one that is special?

It. Does. Not. Work.

I don't think he meant wonderful in a literal term, but more of a description that puts these kind of weapons up and beyond the standard norm of regular weapons. The term "Wonder" followed by a noun would generally presume that something is indeed supernatural to some extent.

Yeah perhaps "literal" threw you off—my bad. I meant it in the fact that these weapons evoke "wonder" from the player. They carry with them a certain mystique, an alien-esque feel to them. These weapons are wonderful in the sense that they are absurd and completely original.

That is what the definition of a Wonder Weapon is to me.

[Electric Jesus]

Special Weapons: these are weapons which are unusual, but not unique or extremely rare. They are all conventional military weapons, but less common. They are considered special because most use a different form of inflicting damage than conventional ballistics. They aren't super-powered and pose the same type of pros and cons as normal weapons to a degree.

Wonder Weapons: these are conpletely original weapons concept-wise. They are always very powerful. They are unconventional and completely unique. they don't pose any of the same issues as conventional weapons or specials. They are unique to the point that they require their own level of thought to use to the maximum level of effectiveness.

Anyone wanna add? There is definitely a difference. And based on this, the BOII ones are in fact wonder weapons.

What infest means is that "super-natural" literally means above normal. It is more powerful than a normal conventional weapon. There is a false (formerly true) connotation around the word wonder, thought to be related to 115 or whatever. However what we are all saying is that it just means really good or powerful.

Edit: @gaycabdybacon Gintama (oops quoted wrong person) if you're trying not to spark something that's a terrible way to start.

[MysteryMachineX]

I've stated it several times. It is no secret.

A Wonder Weapon is a weapon that utilizes 115 prior to being upgraded via the Pack-A-Punch.

My view is right. You can choose not to accept that. Doesn't make it any less right. Like I said with the Flat Earth Society, they can believe the Earth is flat all day. But Neil Armstrong knows otherwise. I've acknowledged all of your counterarguments. I've countered, successfully, too.

Perfect, if that is what you think it is, then you would actually agree that the Jet Gun is mundane and NOT a Wonder Weapon? Still though, that is basing it off of your gut and not following ANY actual definition at all.

~

Special Weapons: These are weapons that fire ammunition in a form besides bullet and 115. They exist few in number.

Wonder Weapons: These are weapons that fire 115. They exist few in number.

Anyone wanna add?

Based on this, BOII ones are in fact NOT Wonder Weapons. The definitions we HAVE say YOU are wrong. But you're going to try to change the question based on some pre-conceived notion that you are right? How do you feel even remotely justified in that?

[Stop Mocking Me0]

Grenades and tactical things that run on 115 (such as monkeys, gershes, and possibly these new tomahawks) are wonder weapons as well...

[InfestLithium]

So does that mean that the Thunder Gun is not a Wonder Weapon because it shoots air? Or it 115 in a state where it can technically be considered a gas, so the air is actually in its gas form yet heated?

Because then the Blundergat could follow suit. Of course, we only see it shoot regular scattered bullets in its normal form, so in your terms, not a Wonder Weapon.

[Electric Jesus]

You're accusing me of being subjective when you almost literally say "I'm right so just deal with it"? You say you refuted everything I said, but I countered all of yours equally.

I'm just saying the definition could be changed. You're just like NOPE END OF STORY. We've been going back and forth. Of course you've refuted everything ive said. Then I refuted that. Then you refuted that. etc. It's a debate. That's the point.

Earlier you were talking about respecting opinions (with which I agreed to the fullest) but now you just say "my view is right." all I'm trying to show is that it may not be 100% correct, and I want you to be open to this idea and break out of the cast iron shell of technicality.

Edit: stop mocking me but we are talking about BOII weapons. No new grenade wonder weapons have been introduced in BOII.

[Stop Mocking Me0]

Monkey bombs...

[Gintama]

Special Weapons: these are weapons which are unusual, but not unique or extremely rare. They are all conventional military weapons, but less common. They are considered special because most use a different form of inflicting damage than conventional ballistics. They aren't super-powered and pose the same type of pros and cons as normal weapons to a degree.

Wonder Weapons: these are conpletely original weapons concept-wise. They are always very powerful. They are unconventional and completely unique. they don't pose any of the same issues as conventional weapons or specials. They are unique to the point that they require their own level of thought to use to the maximum level of effectiveness.

Anyone wanna add? There is definitely a difference. And based on this, the BOII ones are in fact wonder weapons.

What infest means is that "super-natural" literally means above normal. It is more powerful than a normal conventional weapon. There is a false (formerly true) connotation around the word wonder, thought to be related to 115 or whatever. However what we are all saying is that it just means really good or powerful.

Edit: @gaycabdybacon Gintama (oops quoted wrong person) if you're trying not to spark something that's a terrible way to start.

Ah, yes. The inevitable. But yes I just wanted to solidify my thoughts on this conversation. That being it is going nowhere in terms of getting MMX to even consider the fact of agreeing there should be more to wonder weapons than 115

This conversation:

fqs9DYisSsg

[Spartica4Real]

Yeah perhaps "literal" threw you off—my bad. I meant it in the fact that these weapons evoke "wonder" from the player. They carry with them a certain mystique,

Why are you being so stubborn? it's not hard for 3arc to just say "Screw it, let's go a new direction with wonder weapon's, they no longer need 115."

[perfectlemonade]

I've stated it several times. It is no secret.

A Wonder Weapon is a weapon that utilizes 115 prior to being upgraded via the Pack-A-Punch.

My view is right. You can choose not to accept that. Doesn't make it any less right. Like I said with the Flat Earth Society, they can believe the Earth is flat all day. But Neil Armstrong knows otherwise. I've acknowledged all of your counterarguments. I've countered, successfully, too.

Perfect, if that is what you think it is, then you would actually agree that the Jet Gun is mundane and NOT a Wonder Weapon? Still though, that is basing it off of your gut and not following ANY actual definition at all.

~

Special Weapons: These are weapons that fire ammunition in a form besides bullet and 115. They exist few in number.

Wonder Weapons: These are weapons that fire 115. They exist few in number.

Anyone wanna add?

Based on this, BOII ones are in fact NOT Wonder Weapons. The definitions we HAVE say YOU are wrong. But you're going to try to change the question based on some pre-conceived notion that you are right? How do you feel even remotely justified in that?

Nope, I do not think a weaponized jet engine is a Wonder Weapon. Why?

They carry with them a certain mystique, an alien-esque feel to them.

There is nothing alien about a plane.

Tranzit's—excuse me, Green Run's—only Wonder Weapon is the Ray Gun. And I do hope you agree with me on this front, as the Monkey Bomb is a flipping toy with dynamite on it.

You are outnumbered like 5:1 here. If you still insist you are right because you believe in your vain mind that you are the mentally superior individual on this humble little website that doesn't even approach 1/5th the traffic it used to, I will let you sit in your ignorance. The times have changed—the game has changed. What was once accepted fact, both in story and in my main department, strategy, have been thrown out the window and replaced with a completely different formula. Instead of the boring hoard-kill-repeat muscle-memory torture that was Black Ops 1, there are Insta-Kill Weapons (something I classify the Jet Gun as) and Wonder Weapons with infinite ammo and infinite killing capacity.

Zombies has taken on a new identity in your department as well, MMX. There are buses and towers and a new crew with new agendas. It is only reasonable that, with this change, the age-old definition of what makes a Weapon Wonderful changes as well.

I have embraced this, but the $64,000 question is, dear sir, have you?

Okay, I'm going to bed. I know I'll probably stir the pot with this post, but hey, YOLO.

[Electric Jesus]

You aren't going to stir the pot perfect. The Pot has already officially been stirred. The jimmies are all rustled.

I didn't know what I was getting myself into. All I wanted to say was that the blundergat in effect fills the wonder weapon niche of this map, unless treyarch are keeping secrets. so I want to consider it one because of its wunderful properties.

[Gintama]

I've stated it several times. It is no secret.

A Wonder Weapon is a weapon that utilizes 115 prior to being upgraded via the Pack-A-Punch.

My view is right. You can choose not to accept that. Doesn't make it any less right. Like I said with the Flat Earth Society, they can believe the Earth is flat all day. But Neil Armstrong knows otherwise. I've acknowledged all of your counterarguments. I've countered, successfully, too.

Perfect, if that is what you think it is, then you would actually agree that the Jet Gun is mundane and NOT a Wonder Weapon? Still though, that is basing it off of your gut and not following ANY actual definition at all.

~

Special Weapons: These are weapons that fire ammunition in a form besides bullet and 115. They exist few in number.

Wonder Weapons: These are weapons that fire 115. They exist few in number.

Anyone wanna add?

Based on this, BOII ones are in fact NOT Wonder Weapons. The definitions we HAVE say YOU are wrong. But you're going to try to change the question based on some pre-conceived notion that you are right? How do you feel even remotely justified in that?

Nope, I do not think a weaponized jet engine is a Wonder Weapon. Why?

They carry with them a certain mystique, an alien-esque feel to them.

There is nothing alien about a plane.

Tranzit's—excuse me, Green Run's—only Wonder Weapon is the Ray Gun. And I do hope you agree with me on this front, as the Monkey Bomb is a flipping toy with dynamite on it.

You are outnumbered like 5:1 here. If you still insist you are right because you believe in your vain mind that you are the mentally superior individual on this humble little website that doesn't even approach 1/5th the traffic it used to, I will let you sit in your ignorance. The times have changed—the game has changed. What was once accepted fact, both in story and in my main department, strategy, have been thrown out the window and replaced with a completely different formula. Instead of the boring hoard-kill-repeat muscle-memory torture that was Black Ops 1, there are Insta-Kill Weapons (something I classify the Jet Gun as) and Wonder Weapons with infinite ammo and infinite killing capacity.

Zombies has taken on a new identity in your department as well, MMX. There are buses and towers and a new crew with new agendas. It is only reasonable that, with this change, the age-old definition of what makes a Weapon Wonderful changes as well.

I have embraced this, but the $64,000 question is, dear sir, have you?

Okay, I'm going to bed. I know I'll probably stir the pot with this post, but hey, YOLO.

This

is why I love lemon /nohomo/

[MysteryMachineX]

@Stop: Yes, those things are Wonder Weapons too.

@Infest: Well, look at the magazine of the Thundergun. The 115 is not the stuff ejected but rather the power source, just like the Wunderwaffe DG-2. The electricity itself is not 115. (Well it could be possibly, but that's not definite.) As for this new weapon, I'm not going to speculate.

@Electric: Yes. There's no view about it. In this world there is what is right and what is wrong. The only conundrum is your perception of it.

@Gintama: It doesn't matter how many people tell me the Earth is flat, I know it's not.

@Spartica: So biased. I think it more likely that Treyarch said "Everyone thinks all these Wonder Weapons are overpowered. Well, let's just make up some non-Wonder Weapons that are cool but not that overpowered."

@Perfect: Strange you get so mad even though you agreed with me? I think your way of doing it is wonky, but it gets the same result.

[Electric Jesus]

You keep talking about how important it is to be objective and you keep bringing up the flat earth thing, yet not once do you remotely entertain the possibility that the earth could really be flat. And you want to talk about being objective? Can't you see why I'd think that a bit hypocritical? Because there is no way you can know with 100% certainty the exact treyarch studio definition of a wonder weapon. Until that day, we are just as right that the earth us flat as you are that the earth is round.