Lord of the Underworld

[Zombiefaces]

Bravo!!!! This is the BEST theory I have ever read. Facts to back of up, makes complete sense and would tie the story all together. I am a member of this and the activision forums and I can say with comets confidence that this is the best theory I have seen. Great post.

Wow.

[Zombiefaces]

FYI I shared your post to the activision community and gave link and full credit!

[CrimsonZombie]

Here is my opinion about the eye color and how this connects to who is in control.

Red(the new controller):

Light red represents joy, sexuality, passion, sensitivity, and love.

Pink signifies romance, love, and friendship. It denotes feminine qualities and passiveness.

Dark red is associated with vigor, willpower, rage, anger, leadership, courage, longing, malice, and wrath.

Brown suggests stability and denotes masculine qualities.

Reddish-brown is associated with harvest and fall.

Yellow(Sam):

Dull (dingy) yellow represents caution, decay, sickness, and jealousy.

Light yellow is associated with intellect, freshness, and joy.

Blue(richtofen):

Light blue is associated with health, healing, tranquility, understanding, and softness.

Dark blue represents knowledge, power, integrity, and seriousness.

Only reason why I believe it's this since dark blue on a dark map blend to much. So it is why they went with light blue.

The person controling with red eyes is associated with vigor, willpower, rage, anger, leadership, courage, longing, malice, and wrath. This sound like the lord of the dead since all myths about him are he is judgement for all. Sounded like he was the warden which he is when it comes to the evil force.

Also about the dates for mob of the dead. You guy's forgot the lord of the dead is not effected by time but works with it. Judgement may have not come to al in the past. Since this whole event, how would you feel to be the guy who can't do what his created to do? I'd be pissed an since al made the formal I focus judgement on him. Al knew this may happen but the lord can't go to earth after time is ripped thanks to richtofen. So the zombies do the work but he gets the help form the living as well. Still al is like richtofen an is one step ahead but the tables turn at the end of the easter egg. Sadly the original team except takeo didn't know about richtofen plan until after he successes though it is different here. I believe this is how we will break the cycle by killing richtofen an all who cause this mess.

[Blitz]

Appreciate all the positive feedback guys, I have another huge addition that I will be adding on within the next couple days, be sure to check periodically on the thread about that. :D

[jamFMc]

Also I remember while exploring the map I remember hearing weird indian/aztec ritual music in my headphones I don't remember exactly where But I think I was in the cell block near the mp5

Just to add

I believe it's Mongolian throat singing (My evidence is hearing an uncanny track in Borderlands). It's rather "Ritual-istic" and kinda fits with this Aztec theme. Now, I've only heard it in the shower room. Maybe it's contextual when there has some one gone down or entering a new area for the first time... or perhaps when completing a certain task. The thing is, there are many variables on how/why it's triggered.

See what you think: Borderlands Mongolian throat singing -

[DeathBringerZen]

That was a fantastic read there Blitz. Always a pleasure man... Keep it up! :D

[Mattzs]

Although, I personally believe that the announcer is some type of Demon or Satan who has bestowed power and has been worshiped by the Vril People, I am open to the idea that it might be an Aztec God.

I just had a few questions that I was wondering what your insight would be on them.

My first question to you is, how do you connect your idea to Infest Lithium’s Cerberus theory? I know you have addressed your interpretation of the Hellhound in MotD, but Lithium’s post makes a great connection to Cerberus. I even noticed that in one of the pictures linked in that thread, the dog outlines on the walls in MotD make it appear that the Hellhound might have 3heads.

The thread: viewtopic.php?f=149&t=31193&p=298014#p298014

My other question is, how do you approach the classical/Christian references in the map?

Although the Aztecs did preform human sacrifice, sacrifice has also been associated with Paganism (which had been associated with Satanism). In one of Julius Cesar’s writings of his campaigns in Gaul, he writes that the Celts preform human sacrifice. Whether or not that s true is open to debate, but the connection still remains.

I have also heard that one of Billy’s quotes refers to Pandora’s Box. Essentially the Greek Myth in a nutshell is the story of a woman that is given a box that contains all of the world’s monsters/evil inside. She opens the box and boom, all evil is released. Could the Box be the MPD?

The map along with its Native American mythological influences also has a heavy European mythological/religous influence.

Now the connection of the Classics to Satanism lies within the concept of Hell. The Christian concept of Hell comes from the Classical concept of Hades/Pluto’s underworld.

Along with the concept of Hell, Christianity and paganism are also connected in that fact that they oppose each other. Paganism is like the antagonist to Christianity.

Also, remember Faust in Kino?

The final question that I have is with Shangri ’La. Shang baffles me. Even when I first started playing it, I felt like it had a Aztec vibe. But, what bothers me is that Shangri-La based on the Buddhist Concept of Shambhala. It should have had a Tibetan or at least a Chinese feel to it. Even if Shang was on Mars (which I do not believe) it would have still originated psychically and metaphorically from the East. I know Eldorado is an Incan concept, but it would have made more sense to name it that than Shangri‘La.

Overall, I really think you are on to something! But I think we need to think bigger! Since we have gotten references to many forms of death/demonic gods maybe the announcer is just a death god in general. He could have inspired the Vril people and created legends of himself throughout the world.

Please I am not trying to be mean or discredit you, I am just curious. You did a great job and asking questions is my specialty!

As long as it is not aliens, I am fine with this theory!

I am sorry if my post does not make sense. I hope it is coherent. I am currently multitasking and am rushing to get all my ideas down before I forget.

[jamFMc]

The final question that I have is with Shangri ’La. Shang baffles me. Even when I first started playing it, I felt like it had a Aztec vibe. But, what bothers me is that Shangri-La based on the Buddhist Concept of Shambhala. It should have had a Tibetan or at least a Chinese feel to it. Even if Shang was on Mars (which I do not believe) it would have still originated psychically and metaphorically from the East. I know Eldorado is an Incan concept, but it would have made more sense to name it that than Shangri‘La.

Shangri-la is a reference to "Paradise": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise

[Zombiefaces]

Someone's motioned the skulls so I thought I'd add this

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_skull

Although the article says there is no evidence to back up most claims, the beliefs of where they came from does tie into your theory.

[Blitz]

Someone's motioned the skulls so I thought I'd add this

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_skull

Although the article says there is no evidence to back up most claims, the beliefs of where they came from does tie into your theory.

It was suspected that they were created with "Modern" Jewelery tools in the 1800s or even later. Now that's up to speculation, it whatever you decide. This thread is going to be greatly expanded upon. So, expect to see further updates.

As for "Mictlan," (Which I'm going to refer to him for the remainder of my posts), is indeed "Lucifer" aka "Satan." I'm relocating a part of my thread to the top because it appears that people are overlooking the "Most Important" part of this post.

As for connections and answers for the questions I've been receiving, I can guarantee that I'll have supported connections to each of the questions asked.

[Zombiefaces]

Like I said, I completely agree with your theory. I have never seen a better backed up theory. Spot on IMO. Just trying to throw ideas your way. Can't wait to see what else you got!

Hope it didn't seem like I was trying to prove otherwise.

[Blitz]

Like I said, I completely agree with your theory. I have never seen a better backed up theory. Spot on IMO. Just trying to throw ideas your way. Can't wait to see what else you got!

Hope it didn't seem like I was trying to prove otherwise.

Oh, I understand, I have no problem with questions and positive criticism . I just have had A LOT of people mentioning, "I think your wrong, I think its Satan." When in fact I believe it is "Satan" also, he just has a different name... Mictlan.

[Mattzs]

The final question that I have is with Shangri ’La. Shang baffles me. Even when I first started playing it, I felt like it had a Aztec vibe. But, what bothers me is that Shangri-La based on the Buddhist Concept of Shambhala. It should have had a Tibetan or at least a Chinese feel to it. Even if Shang was on Mars (which I do not believe) it would have still originated psychically and metaphorically from the East. I know Eldorado is an Incan concept, but it would have made more sense to name it that than Shangri‘La.

Shangri-la is a reference to "Paradise": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise

I know that Shangri-La means paradise, but it is a Buddhist paradise. All cultures and ethnicities have their own paradises and words for paradise, but this whole concept is East Asian. The actual word and concept of the place is based on the mythical kingdom of Shambala. Shambala is included as a part of the Pure Land sect of Buddhism. It is specifically a Buddhist parades, which is why I did not get the Aztec vibe. The term is culturally specific.

[Zombiefaces]

Ya I hear you, I can't see how anyone who reads this doesn't see this is the most likely theory. I was blown away. I see people are having trouble understanding your point that the "satan" of ALL religions are based off this mich guy. Just with a different name for different religions. For those of us who come with an open mind and a thirst for a deeper meaning to the storyline your theory hits on all cylinders IMO . Keep up the great work.

[Blitz]

It has been mentioned by some, that they believe it may be Cerberus, depicted by the 3 separate heads that make up the door to the Hell's Retriever. I do believe that this is a possibility. Like I said before, Let's Assume that All Religions are the Same". Meaning that, Cerberus, Xolotl, or Itzcuintli are all the same. Need evidence?

Characteristics of Cerberus:

-Depicted as a Hellhound with 1-100 Heads, most commonly with 3.

-Guards the River of Styx, preventing the living from entering and the dead from exiting.

-Known to Devour entire Bodies.

-Was the Loyal Servant of Hades.

-Often depicted as being on Fire.

Characteristics of Itzcuintli:

-Depicted as an entire group of dogs that assist those towards the afterlife.

-Carries the soul across a river allowing the departed to reach Mictlan.

-Known to Devour the Posthumous soul.

-Were the loyal servants of Mictlantecuhtli.

-Believed to bring fire to man.

So, lets tell all little story shall we.

Itzcuintli (Cerberus) is the faithful servant of Mictlantecuhtli (Hades). It was his responsibility to make sure the posthumous soul crossed a river (Styx) to make sure it reached Mictlan (Hades). It was known to devour the soul (Body) to carry it over the river (Styx). Itzcuintli (Cerberus) was also depicted to be on fire, thus bringing fire from Mictlan (Hades) to the humans of the world.

The stories are almost exactly the same, all you have to do is replace a few words.

*All Updates Will Be Posted as "Spoilers" to Prevent Unnecessary Bulk to the Current Page*

[Mattzs]

*All Updates Will Be Posted as "Spoilers" to Prevent Unnecessary Bulk to the Current Page*

It has been mentioned by some, that they believe it may be Cerberus, depicted by the 3 separate heads that make up the door to the Hell's Retriever. I do believe that this is a possibility. Like I said before, Let's Assume that All Religions are the Same". Meaning that, Cerberus, Xolotl, or Itzcuintli are all the same. Need evidence?

Characteristics of Cerberus:

-Depicted as a Hellhound with 1-100 Heads, most commonly with 3.

-Guards the River of Styx, preventing the living from entering and the dead from exiting.

-Known to Devour entire Bodies.

-Was the Loyal Servant of Hades.

-Often depicted as being on Fire.

Characteristics of Itzcuintli:

-Depicted as an entire group of dogs that assist those towards the afterlife.

-Carries the soul across a river allowing the departed to reach Mictlan.

-Known to Devour the Posthumous soul.

-Were the loyal servants of Mictlantecuhtli.

-Believed to bring fire to man.

So, lets tell all little story shall we.

Itzcuintli (Cerberus) is the faithful servant of Mictlantecuhtli (Hades). It was his responsibility to make sure the posthumous soul crossed a river (Styx) to make sure it reached Mictlan (Hades). It was known to devour the soul (Body) to carry it over the river (Styx). Itzcuintli (Cerberus) was also depicted to be on fire, thus bringing fire from Mictlan (Hades) to the humans of the world.

The stories are almost exactly the same, all you have to do is replace a few words.

I am sorry I hope I didn't offend you, but I hope you weren't talking about me. In my post I did say that we might be dealing with evil incarnate, not a specific deity.

"Overall, I really think you are on to something! But I think we need to think bigger! Since we have gotten references to many forms of death/demonic gods maybe the announcer is just a death god in general. He could have inspired the Vril people and created legends of himself throughout the world."

That’s what I said. I was agreeing with you. Sorry for any confusion.

[xWarMachine115x]

Outstanding post bro. Really got me thinking, which is exactly why I come to these forums. Thanks much and I look forward to the next! Aaaaaaand bump.

[bagel_]

Everytime I see Mictlan, all I can think of is:

I don't think we should even bother assuming which form of the Devil it is. We know it's a devil with a fiery pooch, which is commonly shared between religions, one way or another. There's just a lot of evidence pointing towards Mictlan. We can all call him whatever we want. Can we leave it at that?

[Blitz]

I wasn't offended, it was directed towards you though. You were asking questions so I was answering them. Actually with your help, that gave me an idea of opening a Question and Answer section towards this thread. Thanks.

[Blitz]

I don't think we should even bother assuming which form of the Devil it is. We know it's a devil with a fiery pooch, which is commonly shared between religions, one way or another. There's just a lot of evidence pointing towards Mictlan. We can all call him whatever we want. Can we leave it at that?

No Offense Sir, I will not leave it at that.

The fact that Mictlancuhtli is part of the story opens a huge chapter of "what we thought we knew," a lot of theories will change if this thread turns out to be true. Most of the facts are more than coincidences, so it appears that Richtofen is battling it out with a "God" inside the Aether. Guess he should of listened to Sam.

[Mattzs]

I wasn't offended, it was directed towards you though. You were asking questions so I was answering them. Actually with your help, that gave me an idea of opening a Question and Answer section towards this thread. Thanks.

Sorry, I never explain myself correctly. I should just include this disclaimer in my signature lol.

To clear myself up-

When I was referring to sacrifice I was talking about paganism which has been associated with Satanism. I was not talking about Christian Sacrifice, but of pagan sacrifice like, what Julius Cesar thought of the Celts.

I am completely sorry about that one. I shouldn’t have put “Classics/Christianity” in the same sentence. Sorry for the confusion. I should have said "connection to European Culture and History" and then broke it up into a section for the Classics and a section for Christianity.

Speaking of European Culture,

How do you connect Mictlantecuhtli to the Vril People who are fictional descendants of the subterranean escapees Noah’s flood? (Since we have established that Mictlantecuhtli, a god, is the announcer we would have to assume that the religious interpretation of the Vril People is correct i.e. aliens are out of the picture)

And my mega-confusing question. I may need to explain this in better detail. I can’t quite figure out how to word this so if you are stumped please just ask me and I can translate my ramblings to you.

I completely agree that ALL religions are the same in this context and any name for the “devil” is interchangeable, but do you think Treyarch is making their own death god?

It seems that they are pulling from many different sources and descriptions of “evil” throughout history. My question is where do the artistic liberties take over? Where do you think Treyarch borrows from history and where do you think they add their own artistic interpretations?

By this question, could we say Mictlantecuhtli literally encompasses every aspect and feature of every death god throughout history? Meaning, he has the likeness of Hades, Pluto, Osiris, etc.

A simple example- Mictlantecuhtli is Mictlantecuhtli in name, looks like Hades in psychical form, and acts like Osiris in personality while still maintaining the qualities/aspects of these and every death god made by man.

A better example would be “Cerberus”-

Now we have established that Cerberus” is Itzcuintli and that Itzcuintli is Cerberus, but what does he look like? Does he look like the Greek puppy or the Aztec puppy?

For example, In Lithium’s thread there is a post that contains a picture of this puppy. This picture below looks like the Classical description of the Greek Itzcuintli, Cerberus. See the three heads on one body?

I know they are both the same dog, but the depiction makes him look more Greek.

Now let me take this question of overlapping religions/cultures and bring it on a macro scale.

Could we say that-

The announcer is Mictlantecuhtli (Aztec Influence)

He is connected to the holy site of “Shangri-la”(Tibetan/Chinese Influence)

Whose death hound looks like Cerberus (Greek influence)

And who is worshiped by the Vril people ( English Influence)

Do you kind of see what I am getting at? Where does Treyarch decide how much of fact to include and fiction to make?

Could we just say he is the collective term for evil incarnate? Should we refer to him just as The death god?

Is all of this possible?

Sorry for all the questions

[Blitz]

I wasn't offended, it was directed towards you though. You were asking questions so I was answering them. Actually with your help, that gave me an idea of opening a Question and Answer section towards this thread. Thanks.

Sorry, I never explain myself correctly. I should just include this disclaimer in my signature lol.

To clear myself up-

When I was referring to sacrifice I was talking about paganism which has been associated with Satanism. I was not talking about Christian Sacrifice, but of pagan sacrifice like, what Julius Cesar thought of the Celts.

I am completely sorry about that one. I shouldn’t have put “Classics/Christianity” in the same sentence. Sorry for the confusion. I should have said "connection to European Culture and History" and then broke it up into a section for the Classics and a section for Christianity.

Speaking of European Culture,

How do you connect Mictlantecuhtli to the Vril People who are fictional descendants of the subterranean escapees Noah’s flood? (Since we have established that Mictlantecuhtli, a god, is the announcer we would have to assume that the religious interpretation of the Vril People is correct i.e. aliens are out of the picture)

And my mega-confusing question. I may need to explain this in better detail. I can’t quite figure out how to word this so if you are stumped please just ask me and I can translate my ramblings to you.

I completely agree that ALL religions are the same in this context and any name for the “devil” is interchangeable, but do you think Treyarch is making their own death god?

It seems that they are pulling from many different sources and descriptions of “evil” throughout history. My question is where do the artistic liberties take over? Where do you think Treyarch borrows from history and where do you think they add their own artistic interpretations?

By this question, could we say Mictlantecuhtli literally encompasses every aspect and feature of every death god throughout history? Meaning, he has the likeness of Hades, Pluto, Osiris, etc.

A simple example- Mictlantecuhtli is Mictlantecuhtli in name, looks like Hades in psychical form, and acts like Osiris in personality while still maintaining the qualities/aspects of these and every death god made by man.

A better example would be “Cerberus”-

Now we have established that Cerberus” is Itzcuintli and that Itzcuintli is Cerberus, but what does he look like? Does he look like the Greek puppy or the Aztec puppy?

For example, In Lithium’s thread there is a post that contains a picture of this puppy. This picture below looks like the Classical description of the Greek Itzcuintli, Cerberus. See the three heads on one body?

I know they are both the same dog, but the depiction makes him look more Greek.

Now let me take this question of overlapping religions/cultures and bring it on a macro scale.

Could we say that-

The announcer is Mictlantecuhtli (Aztec Influence)

He is connected to the holy site of “Shangri-la”(Tibetan/Chinese Influence)

Whose death hound looks like Cerberus (Greek influence)

And who is worshiped by the Vril people ( English Influence)

Do you kind of see what I am getting at? Where does Treyarch decide how much of fact to include and fiction to make?

Could we just say he is the collective term for evil incarnate? Should we refer to him just as The death god?

Is all of this possible?

Sorry for all the questions

Sir, its no problem. I know of connections of all your questions, some of them is going to take a bit of research to actually find some "fact backing."

Its been taking a bit longer than expected, but I have a complete new chapter to "Lord of the Underworld". I'll be working on it this week. Just keep your eyes open, I'm going to try to have it up by Wednesday night...hopefully.

[Mattzs]

Sir, its no problem. I know of connections of all your questions, some of them is going to take a bit of research to actually find some "fact backing."

Its been taking a bit longer than expected, but I have a complete new chapter to "Lord of the Underworld". I'll be working on it this week. Just keep your eyes open, I'm going to try to have it up by Wednesday night...hopefully.

I wasn't offended, it was directed towards you though. You were asking questions so I was answering them. Actually with your help, that gave me an idea of opening a Question and Answer section towards this thread. Thanks.

Sorry, I never explain myself correctly. I should just include this disclaimer in my signature lol.

To clear myself up-

When I was referring to sacrifice I was talking about paganism which has been associated with Satanism. I was not talking about Christian Sacrifice, but of pagan sacrifice like, what Julius Cesar thought of the Celts.

I am completely sorry about that one. I shouldn’t have put “Classics/Christianity” in the same sentence. Sorry for the confusion. I should have said "connection to European Culture and History" and then broke it up into a section for the Classics and a section for Christianity.

Speaking of European Culture,

How do you connect Mictlantecuhtli to the Vril People who are fictional descendants of the subterranean escapees Noah’s flood? (Since we have established that Mictlantecuhtli, a god, is the announcer we would have to assume that the religious interpretation of the Vril People is correct i.e. aliens are out of the picture)

And my mega-confusing question. I may need to explain this in better detail. I can’t quite figure out how to word this so if you are stumped please just ask me and I can translate my ramblings to you.

I completely agree that ALL religions are the same in this context and any name for the “devil” is interchangeable, but do you think Treyarch is making their own death god?

It seems that they are pulling from many different sources and descriptions of “evil” throughout history. My question is where do the artistic liberties take over? Where do you think Treyarch borrows from history and where do you think they add their own artistic interpretations?

By this question, could we say Mictlantecuhtli literally encompasses every aspect and feature of every death god throughout history? Meaning, he has the likeness of Hades, Pluto, Osiris, etc.

A simple example- Mictlantecuhtli is Mictlantecuhtli in name, looks like Hades in psychical form, and acts like Osiris in personality while still maintaining the qualities/aspects of these and every death god made by man.

A better example would be “Cerberus”-

Now we have established that Cerberus” is Itzcuintli and that Itzcuintli is Cerberus, but what does he look like? Does he look like the Greek puppy or the Aztec puppy?

For example, In Lithium’s thread there is a post that contains a picture of this puppy. This picture below looks like the Classical description of the Greek Itzcuintli, Cerberus. See the three heads on one body?

I know they are both the same dog, but the depiction makes him look more Greek.

Now let me take this question of overlapping religions/cultures and bring it on a macro scale.

Could we say that-

The announcer is Mictlantecuhtli (Aztec Influence)

He is connected to the holy site of “Shangri-la”(Tibetan/Chinese Influence)

Whose death hound looks like Cerberus (Greek influence)

And who is worshiped by the Vril people ( English Influence)

Do you kind of see what I am getting at? Where does Treyarch decide how much of fact to include and fiction to make?

Could we just say he is the collective term for evil incarnate? Should we refer to him just as The death god?

Is all of this possible?

Sorry for all the questions

No problem, I will be looking foreward to it.

[INeedVodka115]

My mind has been blown. awesome theory

[Mattzs]

Hello again!

With the release of the soundtrack for MotD, I wanted to post some of my thoughts and questions here. The soundtrack and its trailer actually have great significance to this thread. I will try to add my personal interpretations/questions from the soundtrack, but I am going to take some time. Sorry.

More importantly, I am really curious to see your interpretation of the soundtrack. As far as I know, the only way you can listen to the songs is via ITunes. You have to have the program installed on your computer. Besides the easter egg songs, most of the songs are full length as they are 30-40 seconds.

Especially listen to Infirmary theme (medicine men!), Afterlife mode, and surprisingly there is a song titled Underworld.

Sorry if this is old hat!

To begin my interpretation, I am really wondering now, if the death god is some type of crossover between Satan and Mictlantecuhtli. The trailer and songs seem to blend the two together in my opinion.

Normally I wouldn’t make much of it, but there seems to be both Native American and European styles within each song. I don’t think the use of classical music is just there for the sake of background music.

To give a quick example- You can hear in the Infirmary theme Native American music i.e. the medicine men, BUT in the Good Ending song you can hear the Angelic voices that signify the crossing over to the afterlife of the mobsters.