Ghosts of Alcatraz

[FatedTitan]

I warn everyone before reading. This is going to be a long one. Thanks to Tac for letting me spill whatever came into my head out. He was extremely helpful in questioning things I stated and organizing my thoughts. This by no means means that I am correct in this theory, but it sure makes it sound plausible.


First, let's start with ghosts. Ghosts, as most know, are spirits of deceased people who inhabit an area. Obviously, this is a very general definition. There are many types of ghosts that surround areas.
 

 

The kind of human or animal ghost that is an actual sentient being is called an apparition. Many of these beings are restless because they do not know that they have passed on due to unexpected events that ended their lives, or believe they have unfinished business to attend to. Many occupy places they frequented during life. Some do know that they are dead, and may come back for reasons of revenge, or to comfort or warn a loved one of some kind of impending disaster, or to lead them to some fortune or treasure. Others just like to hang around and see what's going on with other people. The ghosts who do the same things over and over again are the ones who don't know that they are dead, and are actually prisoners of their own minds: It may be the year 2006, but in the mind of the ghost of a person who died 100 years ago and didnt expect or realize it, it's still 1906 and he's still trying to perform whatever action he was preoccupied with when he died

{C}http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ghost{C}

Now this interests me. These ghosts continually do a set script like they are on a video tape. In a video, nothing will ever change. The same thing is going to happen in every video. In the same way, these ghosts do the same thing over and over and it won't change.

But, what happens if something does change? What happens if this ghost does something that they weren't supposed to or didn't do in real life? Well things could break apart. A rift could occur. Things go horribly wrong. This isn't what is supposed to happen. The only way to fix it is for things to be returned to normal.

Now let's take this into the world of zombies and we get some really interesting scenarios to say the least. What if this group of four mobsters were not alive? What if the M4 were all ghosts reliving a portion of their lives on a tape? Then, someone breaks the cycle and things go out of whack.

Now before I go any further, I want to explain why this thought came to my mind.



You've all seen this picture, but the thing that has frustrated me is that Water Tower. The devs have done hours of work perfecting this map for the story they want to tell. There's no way that they could have a mistake as large as this water tower.

But Fated, what do you mean the water tower? What's so wrong with it? I'll tell you what's wrong with it. The radios within Mob of the Dead state that the scenario plays out on New Years Eve of 1933. The water tower's construction did not complete until 1941 and was only started in 1940. Why is this water tower on a map that is supposed to be set in 1933? The devs couldn't make such a blatant mistake, could they? They researched Alcatraz Island enough to know about the Native American protests, the Medicine Man symbol, and tons more about the location. If this map is set in 1933, then the devs made a big "oops." But did they? The answer is no, they didn't. Let me explain.

So we have Ferguson talking about how he served at Alcatraz until 1942. He speaks of an event that occurred at the prison on New Years Eve in 1933. He tells of how the plan failed and the three men turned on the Weasel and killed him. They were then killed by the electric chair fifteen days later. This is what really happened on the map. What many are missing with this radio is that it tells us that the map has to be set past 1942. Ferguson is talking about the past and how he SERVED until 1942. He's not still serving.

Now Fated, it's a radio referencing what is happening to our characters now in 1933. I'd say you're somewhat right. It is a radio that is referencing our M4 and their planned escape in 1933. But the fact that Ferguson is speaking about the past and we have this water tower that was completed in 1941, I believe this map had to happen post-1940.

Fated! NO NO NO! That can't be right! If you want to believe that fine. Believe it. But the fact remains that we are the M4 slaying zombies on that fateful night in 1933. You can't deny it. That's the night the radio is speaking of. You are correct. This is the night that the radio is speaking of. But that doesn't mean the map itself is set in 1933. Just the situation. This is where we return to the original topic. Ghosts.

What if the M4 were ghosts? They were stuck in a cycle of continually doing their plan over and over, but killing the Weasel at the end. There was no Ferguson killed. There were no zombies. Nothing. They believe that it is New Year Eve of 1933. In their minds, it's always New Years Eve of 1933. And though it wasn't in the quoted area above, there are actually ghosts that only do their cycle on certain days that are significant. For these four men, New Years Eve is a significant moment in their lives. It defined what would happen to them. The Weasel would die, and the other three would seal their fate of execution.

So how does this play in? Let's say that the map is set on a New Years Eve in the 1940s. The characters come out to do their cycle. They will continue this cycle over and over for all of New Years. Now, here's the issue. What happens if something changes. As we heard in the radio, Ferguson was a guard at Alcatraz until 1942. But in our cutscene, he is killed.

Now let's think for a moment. Ferguson wasn't killed in reality, but here he is. What could this cause? That's right. A rift.

When the men decide to carry on their plan instead of just killing Weasel, the time space continuum messes up. It's kind of like the Butterfly Effect. In time, a certain event occurred that led to this other thing happening. In this case though, they are changing something that has already happened, which would lead to an alternate ending. This can't happen. Things begin to fall apart. This is where the zombies come in.

It's interesting when you watch the cutscene because before they kill Ferguson, everything is normal. Afterward, things are completely different. It almost doesn't look like the same prison. Things are destroyed and run down and there are sacrificial tables and trash, and a ton of other things that weren't there seconds earlier. Everything is just messed up with time.

So the M4 go in a cycle of escaping the prison, which never occurred, and being sent back. Now, why could they not escape for good? Why did they have to hit the bridge and kill themselves and respawn back in the prison? Because they cannot escape their destiny. They cannot break time. It must be fixed. These characters must mend the rift.

But Fated...how do they mend a rift? If it's broken, it's broken...right? Not necessarily. They just have to put things back how they're supposed to be. What does that mean? They have to kill Weasel instead of escaping the island. If they do this, things are back to normal. Things are back how they should be.

Fated, I hear what you're saying, but you have an inherent flaw. When Weasel is killed, we continue the cycle. Things don't stop. They only stop when Weasel kills the other three. You're correct in saying it continues, but you're incorrect in believing that's a flaw. First off, the game asks you to Kill Weasel. It doesn't tell you to kill the others. So if you follow what the game is telling you to do, then you will continue playing the game. If you kill the three other men, the game ends. Things break down. There's no hope of fixing the time rift problem without them there and things fall apart in the space time continuum.

But Fated. If Weasel dies, the game continues. That's not breaking the cycle! My answer to that is, "But isn't it?" What cycle are we breaking is the question at hand. They players never escape in this scenario. They do what happens in the radio. They kill the Weasel and they would be executed fifteen days later. Remember that these are ghosts. So whenever the cycle or video ends, they reset. We go back to where we started and start over. So we broke a cycle, but not the cycle that stands out. It's the cycle of a broken rift. If the characters kill Weasel that night instead of Ferguson, everything is back to normal.

Now while you are letting that soak in, let's talk about ghosts. Where are the ghosts in Alcatraz? Why must they be ghosts? Could real people not be stuck in this cycle as well? Yes they could and they are. Die Rise proved that. But there's a difference this time. Ghosts are everywhere in Alcatraz! Want proof?





Yes, Afterlife mode. I don't know many that will disagree that we are ghosts while in Afterlife mode, or at least some version of a ghost/spirit/apparition. So what are these ghosts? They are our characters. We start off in Afterlife mode for a reason. That's who we are. The M4, being ghosts, don't actually recognize that they're in a cycle. They don't understand or comprehend that they are ghosts. They just believe that it is that fateful night. They believe that it is New Years Eve 1933, even though it isn't in reality. They continually live in that state of mind. So when we are in Afterlife mode, we are actually how we look. When we are in the M4 bodies, we are still ghosts, but our characters don't recognize they are ghosts. This is why we go into Afterlife mode. When we get downed, the character realizes death, at least their ghostly body does. They then become the apparition of the Afterlife. It is while they are like this that they understand who they are. They know that they are dead. They understand death because they remember it. They just experienced it. But when they are in their bodies, they don't. They can't even remember writing out the plans on the wall. Weasel even states "That's my handwriting, but I don't remember writing it."

Hear me out because I know that last part is extremely difficult to understand/comprehend. Let me see if I can make it easier.

When in bodies, characters believe they are real. They are performing their cycles like a ghost would, ignorant to the fact that they are ghosts performing a task they have done over and over again.

When downed, they recognize death. They remember dying. They go into Afterlife mode. This is their spirit. They comprehend death now because they remember experiencing it.

When they revive themselves, they go back to their normal duties as a ghost, repeating the task that they continually perform.

Now, I know that's hard to wrap a mind around. My brain hurts trying to and I know Tac's did. So let's take a breather here and let our minds soak it in and form mean opinions about Fated and his stupid theories. We done? Excellent. Let's continue.

Ghosts are no stranger to Alcatraz. A simple Google search shows 1,950,000 results. There are countless reports of ghosts at Alcatraz, which could be motivation for the devs in doing this. Here's one article I found that you can look at about some ghosts of Alcatraz. Nothing of importance to the theory outside of ghosts at Alcatraz, but felt it was good information that helped back this possibility.

{C}http://www.legendsofamerica.com/ca-alcatrazghosts.html{C}

So what does this all mean? Why does it matter? Well first off, it matters because it gives us a different time period for the map. It is no longer in the 30s, but in the post 40 area. It also matters because it tells us what a rift can cause. A rift in the time stream can cause chaos. And that's exactly what we have at Alcatraz...utter chaos.

Now, going back a bit, I want to emphasize something I said.
 

 

But, what happens if something does change? What happens if this ghost does something that they weren't supposed to or didn't do in real life? Well things could break apart. A rift could occur. Things go horribly wrong. This isn't what is supposed to happen. The only way to fix it is for things to be returned to normal.

Now let's take this into the world of zombies and we get some really interesting scenarios to say the least.

Scenarios. Plural. This is not exclusive to Alcatraz. The rift is an issue that has been mentioned in other maps. In Die Rise, we're told to Mend the Rift. The question we've had for so long though is "How?" Well let's go back to the origins of zombies. World War II.

During World War II, the Nazis had many ideas for weapons and other tactical devices that would help them win the war. Wonder weapons, especially the earliest ones, were ideas the Nazis had. Die Glocke is a Nazi idea. So many things from Call of Duty Zombies are ideas from World War II. But there is one thing that was not an idea in World War II. Zombies.

What are you suggesting Fated?...Yes, be scared because this blew my mind when I thought about it too. There was no 115 in World War II. There was no element that did amazing things, such as teleportation or the creation of undead armies.

So what are you saying? I'm saying that 115 was not used in the war. Group 935 brought it into the war. To fix the rift, we have to stop 115 from being brought into the war. To stop it from being brought into the war, we have to destroy the group that brought it...Group 935.

This group should have never been formed. They exploited an element that was never used in World War II. If we want to mend the rift, we have to take out Group 935. In doing this, we will stop the use of 115 in World War II.

But...but...zombies. Yes, zombies. Zombies were a by product of 115 exposure to soliders in an attempt to create an army of undead warriors to fight the Allies. Never read about that in your history books did you? That's right. Because it never happened. The rift is broken, remember? So zombies appear because of this and begin their rage.

How does this work with Mob of the Dead though? Zombies appear there also, but there is no 115 in sight! Because of this fact, I have to assume that the appearance of zombies in Germany was no coincidence. The 115 did this for a reason. This is the same reason that they showed up in Mob of the Dead.

Now, before I go any further, I want to make a note. This all flows together in my head, but honestly, the rift could be broken with the creation of zombies or with the creation of Group 935. Please do not judge the ghost theory on this continuation of my thought spewing out into words for you to read. This is a lot more controversial than the M4 being ghosts. So please bare with me.

What if zombies were a by-product of a broken rift? The broken rift in Mob of the Dead caused them, as did the broken rift in our other timeline. So if there is a broken rift, zombies are a sign of it. The only way to get rid of them is to mend the rift. This would point toward the rift break being caused by the creation of Group 935 instead of zombies. The zombies would be the byproduct.

Now who has told someone to mend the rift? The voice in Stullinger's head! These voices are telling him he needs to mend the rift. If he did this, then he would save mankind. He would bring everything back to how it should be. Neither Maxis nor Richtofen want this. They haven't told the characters to mend a rift. They want them to follow their goals, whether they are known or unknown.

What does this mean? It means that the voices in Stullinger's head are at war with the voice of Richtofen and the voice of Maxis. He has the voices in his head telling him to mend the rift, or to fix the time situation. If he can do this, he would revert everything back to how it needs to be. How does he do this? Stop Group 935's creation.

...

...

...

Ok. Did you enjoy that rest I just gave you? I sure did! I've said all of this here and now I have to ask one last question..."So what?" Let's answer that.

Why does this matter? Who cares if we need to mend the rift? Why will mending the rift cause an issue? I have to break some hearts. If the rift is mended, there is no Tank, Nikolai, Takeo, and Richtofen on a world-spanning adventure. It was all fake. It never actually occurred. It was a by-product of a messed up time stream. The actual time stream should look like what we see now. The world we live in is the product of what happened during World War II. If the rift is mended, what we have is this world like it is in our every day lives. If we mend the rift, everything is fake. We never went to Moon or Mars or Siberia or anywhere. If we mend the rift, everything in this game changes from reality to a dream. To get rid of zombies, the rift must be mended. If we don't do that, we still have our stories and adventure that occurred, but we still have zombies. That's why it's important. Because it now provides us with a third voice in the storyline. So now, you decide.

-Follow Maxis

-Follow Richtofen

-Mend the Rift

You can only choose one.



I know this was an extremely long, complicated read, but thank you for spending your time reading it! And thanks again to Tac for helping me think through all of this and get my thoughts off and running! I hope everyone enjoyed it and please comment below!

[bobane]

Great post, makes a lot of sense to me, often I could see where you were going before finishing the sentence

*brains if they still existed*

[Thee Crater]

So Fated, a question for clarification. What you are saying is that to end the rift means an end to zombies? Do you think that's what all of these Easter Eggs are leading to? And if that is what they are leading to, what is the purpose of this map? By fixing this rift, how is is helping the bigger rift?

[TBGxRyan]

OFF TOPIC:

Why did you only complete the speed fire round on PDT in 4 min? You clearly have a strong grasp on the storyline. Nerves & The little things I guess haha

But really, awesome post. I want to know the same as the person above though. Some questions have not been answered.

[jamFMc]

Awesome and Epic Post!

... So I guess it really is just a comic book

[FatedTitan]

I am weary to answer that question, but did kind of point to an answer in the post. It's very controversial obviously I cannot answer with full certainty. So instead of me answering that question, I'll let Dr. Richtofen!

If the rift is what I believe it is, then mending the rift would cause time to fix itself. There would be no more zombies. Life would be like we know it today in our own personal lives. So, as Dr. Richtofen stated, I would by no means discourage that line of thought. If the rift I believe is correct turns out to be correct, then it would be the end of Zombies.

Now, on the significance of Alcatraz. There are a few things that make Alcatraz fit the bill of importance.

1. It's an awesome map.

2. It's an awesome location.

3. It gives story information for our giant story and not just the small story of the M4.

Why is Alcatraz important? It shows us how to mend a rift. We have to set things right. Before this map, we didn't know how to mend a rift. Now we know what mending the rift means and how important that is in our storyline.

[Dahniska]

Really good read. Makes sense.

[FatedTitan]

OFF TOPIC:

Why did you only complete the speed fire round on PDT in 4 min? You clearly have a strong grasp on the storyline. Nerves & The little things I guess haha

But really, awesome post. I want to know the same as the person above though. Some questions have not been answered.

I'm the host of Titan's Time Trials. I write the questions along with help from the rest of the PDT crew. Tac is the one who took over four minutes.

Also, you have to realize that the questions during TTT are plays off of the forgotten parts of zombies. It looks at the little things in maps. Even the most experienced zombie players are forced to think. You can ask Undead xP and Tac. They'll both tell you that a lot of questions, if asked in normal conversation, they'd get in a second. But because of the situation, your mind gets to racing and it can be difficult to find the answer.

[Tasty Applesauce]

you've just changed how I look at zombies mindfucked wow

the thought that was put into this is amazing

[InfestLithium]

Very long read, but with tons of juicy information that'll keep you hooked all the way into the end. I very much like this. Things got so serious and dramatic when you mentioned wiping out Group 935 in order to prevent the 115 that was never part of the war until now...that itself is quite the paradox.

Great theory, friendo. +1 :)

[PINNAZ]

Absolute BRAINS Mr Titan.

That was complicated yet I think I understand your concept. My head is hurting.

Your point about 115 not being in WW2 got me thinking that if we have to stop Group 935 (and everyone else that had 115) do we somehow stop a younger Maxis or Richtofen from choosing the path that we are told in the previous games?

Or do we stop Samantha from ever being involved in this scenario?

This idea of stopping Element 115 from being used in World War 2 made me realise; How do we stop it?

We blow the F**k out of the meteor that landed in Tunguska in 1908 with the towers that we have powered. We may be using future "Star Wars" technology (Particle Beams & Gamma Ray concepts) to destroy an event that happened over 100 years ago in the future.

We are "Back tracing across the Future"

Tesla's Wardenclyffe tower was thought to be the cause of the Tunguska event. Are we using his future technology to actually stop this event from occurring????

[Undead]

It's crazy to think about, but just how much of all that just makes sense pretty much made me realize that MotD may have very well just set the bar on top of the hill, indicating that we finally may have resoultion to end it all. The events at Alcatraz obviously being an example of the entire cycle of everything zombies in a nutshell, really.

Granted, I'm not much of a theorist guy, but I've put two and two together and am pretty knowledgeable in the Zombies universe regarding origin and background so I'm gonna go out on a whim here so bear with me on this:

In Der Riese, the description of the map itself IS "This is where it all began..." And just by going off of what is actually given to us, what is actually there, in plain sight without having to dig deep into all the possible theories and all is what is the MAIN source of travel the became dominant originally, in Der Riese? Teleportation. Richtofen's supposed first facination he toyed around with diligently since the series of events we've learned in Moon that occurred between 1939-1940 (according to the radios). Now, why bring up Der Riese? We already know about all that stuff. Well, just by how Fated put all this in the perpective that this may all very well just be the results of a broken rift (everything from 115, creation of 935, the zombies, teleporting ALL of it) made me think this is all just a very intricate story, retold as we have come to know it today in the world of zombies.

After doing a quick google search on teleportation, this came up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Ring_des_Nibelungen

Now, let me just point out some very interesting things and what I immediately related this to Der Riese for:

The cycle is a work of extraordinary scale. Perhaps the most outstanding facet of the monumental work is its sheer length: a full performance of the cycle takes place over four nights at the opera, with a total playing time of about 15 hours, depending on the conductor's pacing. The first and shortest opera, Das Rheingold, typically lasts two and a half hours, while the final and longest, Götterdämmerung, takes up to five hours, excluding intervals.

The cycle is modelled after ancient Greek dramas that were presented as three tragedies and one satyr play. The Ring proper begins with Die Walküre and ends with Götterdämmerung, with Rheingold as a prelude. Wagner called Das Rheingold a Vorabend or "Preliminary Evening", and Die Walküre, Siegfried and Götterdämmerung were subtitled First Day, Second Day and Third Day, respectively, of the trilogy proper.

The scale and scope of the story is epic. It follows the struggles of gods, heroes, and several mythical creatures over the eponymous magic Ring that grants domination over the entire world. The drama and intrigue continue through three generations of protagonists, until the final cataclysm at the end of Götterdämmerung.

The music of the cycle is thick and richly textured, and grows in complexity as the cycle proceeds. Wagner wrote for an orchestra of gargantuan proportions, including a greatly enlarged brass section with new instruments such as the Wagner tuba, bass trumpet and contrabass trombone. Remarkably, he uses a chorus only relatively briefly, in acts 2 and 3 of Götterdämmerung, and then mostly of men with just a few women. He eventually had a purpose-built theatre constructed, the Bayreuth Festspielhaus, in which to perform this work. The theatre has a special stage that blends the huge orchestra with the singers' voices, allowing them to sing at a natural volume. The result was that the singers did not have to strain themselves vocally during the long performances.

And furthermore;

The plot revolves around a magic ring that grants the power to rule the world, forged by the Nibelung dwarf Alberich from gold he stole from the Rhine maidens in the river Rhine. With the assistance of Loge, Wotan – the chief of the gods – steals the ring from Alberich, who curses it, but is forced to hand it over to the giants, Fafner and Fasolt in payment for building the home of the gods, Valhalla. Wotan's schemes to regain the ring, spanning generations, drive much of the action in the story. His grandson, the mortal Siegfried, wins the ring by slaying Fafner (who slew Fasolt for the ring) – as Wotan intended – but is eventually betrayed and slain as a result of the intrigues of Alberich's son Hagen, who wants the ring. Finally, the Valkyrie Brünnhilde – Siegfried's lover and Wotan's daughter who lost her immortality for defying her father – returns the ring to the Rhine maidens as she commits suicide on Siegfried's funeral pyre. In the process, the gods and Valhalla are destroyed.

Details of the storylines can be found in the articles on each opera.

Wagner created the story of the Ring by fusing elements from many German and Scandinavian myths and folk tales. The Old Norse Edda supplied much of the material for Das Rheingold, while Die Walküre was largely based on the Völsungasaga. Siegfried contains elements from the Eddur, the Völsungasaga and Thidrekssaga. The final opera, Götterdämmerung, draws from the 12th century German poem, the Nibelungenlied, which appears to have been the original inspiration for the Ring.[2]

The Ring has been the subject of myriad interpretations. For example, George Bernard Shaw, in The Perfect Wagnerite, argues for a view of The Ring as an essentially socialist critique of industrial society and its abuses. Robert Donington in Wagner's Ring And Its Symbols interprets it in terms of Jungian psychology, as an account of the development of unconscious archetypes in the mind, leading towards individuation.

Unless I'm looking too much into it myself, that sounds strikingly like the events we've followed since Der Riese, since Moon and all of that between Maxis and Richtofen and what their goal truly is. And even putting that aside, it's been stated straightforward as well as obviously by result, the teleporters not only are able to teleport us from one place to another, but through time. Which obviously, if you're where you're NOT supposed to be at any given time, and in Richtofen's and even Maxis' case, up to no good, it's going to put a nice sized dent in time, causing a rift. Also, notice how cycle quickly just became a key scenario in zombies; this crew is being toyed around just like how Richtofen played with the new 4. Think of the opening scene for Die Rise.

Now, coming back around to events at Alcatraz, given that has gone on and that the message becomes clear you have to mend the rift by following the EE, this is all a nod as to what happened and what has to happen, with everything so far. Like Titan was saying; Mend the rift, or follow Richtofen or Maxis. And with that, I think these next two zombies maps coming up in the future are going to be extremely important in what it all boils down to; deciding just how the zombies storyline will end. I honestly believe we're going to have the option for alternate endings. One, being to mend the rift and put things back to normal.

Anyways, there's more in there somewhere, but just some interesting food for thought I had to go along with that. Excellent work Titan. ;)

[FatedTitan]

Skip to 13:15.

We've thought for a long time that Takeo played a larger part in the story. Could he be the one that understands what must be done?

[Tac]

Skip to 13:15.

We've thought for a long time that Takeo played a larger part in the story. Could he be the one that understands what must be done?

"I promise to destroy every last remnant of 935!" - vox_plr_2_quest_step8_9

So with these ghosts, they infest their own physical bodies and believe they are alive, so they go through the cycle and die again and their spirits realize they are actually dead, until they infest their bodies again. One question though, how do their bodies get back to Alcatraz Island if we end our lives on the Bridge with the electric chairs? Sorry for not understanding that part, haven't played much of the map. That's just a question I have.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea of them being ghosts all along, but overall the theory makes lots of sense, as more arises in my brain I can add more to this thread in the form of questions, comments, etc. :)

[FatedTitan]

One question though, how do their bodies get back to Alcatraz Island if we end our lives on the Bridge with the electric chairs? Sorry for not understanding that part, haven't played much of the map. That's just a question I have.

Great question. Here's the answer I believe to be correct. They were never meant to leave the island. Getting to the bridge is an accomplishment that was not supposed to occur. What was supposed to occur was Weasel being killed and the other three hitting the electric chairs.

But why does the cycle continue? How and why do their bodies return to Alcatraz? I think the answer is in the cycle. They all kill themselves. Well that didn't happen that night. Only one man died that night and it wasn't by electric chair. That was Weasel. The other three did not die that night. So when they all die, the cycle restarts. They go back to where they were at the beginning.

This is a very complicated thing for me to try to explain because part of me wants to say "gameplay purposes" but I also want to try to explain it story wise. My only explanation would be that they continue the cycle of doing the same thing wrong over and over until they get it right. If everything messes up, they restart.

The humorous thing about it is that even if they get it correct, they restart. They're ghosts in an infinite loop that they don't recognize they're in. When they get it wrong, they have a zombie outbreak and everything goes terribly wrong. When they get it right, they just restart and kill Weasel all over again.

I still don't know if that's the best explanation. I need to dwell on this.

[InfestLithium]

I just thought of something that might make sense.

In the cycle(s), the crew acts as if they have never had a disagreement, nor do they remember what happened on that New Years night. Their memories can only retain the fact that they want to get off this island. One of the characters at the beginning of the match even says "Hey, a checklist!" as if it's his first time really seeing it. They have a bit of deja vu from accessing the Afterlife before the match officially begins to resurrecting themselves.

Allow me to continue. So they go about building the plane that was actually never built, but now they are legitimately building it for the first time. This cycle could've been going on for longer than we've known, hence why the outbreak is occurring. I'm a firm believer that the outside environment stays the same regardless if the characters are "reset". Think of how the plane still resides on the roof even though we take it. Already, they are breaking the cycle by doing so.

Once the plane takes off, they are all trapped on the bridge. Their first intention is not to kill one another, so they take the electric chairs. This is where the confusion begins to kick in. Every cycle they do, the crew still believes that it is New Years (evidence is in Sal's quote "It's always New Years!" [he realizes there is a loop later on]). All those cycles they've done with the skulls, number sequences, and such are just the middle and really do not make any story sense up until we hear the radios. When the radios go off (the headphone drops), the crew begins to realize what is going on right now.

The final cycle comes into play during the headphone phase. That is their last cycle, and they are slowly understanding that they are continuing a loop right now. They break the cycle even further by going back to the bridge where they believe they last went off - the electric chairs. Once they get there, whoever kills who determines how the cycle ends. The real-time event of Al being killed on New Years causes the cycle to continue, because it matches up with the original scenario that night. When Al is the one to be the person who kills, it doesn't match the original moment so he breaks the cycle himself. The infinite loop stops.

To make better sense of this, imagine that our first cycle - when we build the actual plane - is 1, and the final cycle (where Al kills the others) is 9. The sequence according to the gameplay goes like this:

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9

But 1 and 9 are the first and final product, and 2-8 are what happens in between. So let's make that distinction:

1, (2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8,) 9

In the story, however, we learn the history and background of the crew and what happened on that dreadful New Years night. Thus, 2-8 has been nothing but a sequence that allows us to understand the backstory behind this cycle and why it might be repeating. In linear terms, the inner cycles never happened. So now we are left with this:

1, 9

See what happened? In the gameplay, we followed through the cycles until we hit an ending (or continuum). In the story, however, the only things that truly occurred were the plane being built and crashing onto the Golden Gate Bridge, the crew finding out why this is happening, and them about to kill one or another. The middle technically never existed, but yet it did in its own fashion.

[Lunatic]

Mending the rift by destroying group 935 and fixing the world.

Anyone else feel like Takeo was hinting at this on moon?

Also, my problem with that is if we stop all this from happening by fixing the rift, then we stop the people from fixing it in the first place. By fixing the rift we stop who did from doing so because it all never happened.

TIME IS A MESSED UP SUBJECT.

Lithium, your response to this post just blew my mind. Didn't help that this post already did so.

Like, seriously. This is a really confusing subject.

[Tasty Applesauce]

Mending the rift by destroying group 935 and fixing the world.

Anyone else feel like Takeo was hinting at this on moon?

Also, my problem with that is if we stop all this from happening by fixing the rift, then we stop the people from fixing it in the first place. By fixing the rift we stop who did from doing so because it all never happened.

TIME IS A MESSED UP SUBJECT.

Lithium, your response to this post just blew my mind. Didn't help that this post already did so.

Like, seriously. This is a really confusing subject.

paradox

[Mattzs]

I want to connect this theory further to Der Riese.

Now remember before BO1 came out, and even months before MW2 , that there was the “1:15 Clock theory” in Der Riese. Essentially just like the clock in MotD, the clock in Der Riese kept resetting (or was it stuck?) on the same time, 1:15. This led some to theorize that In Der Riese, the O4 were stuck in a time loop.

What if they really were? Ironically, since this team worked on Der Riese before, I think it is possible for them to re-use some of Der Riese’s themes.

What if the O4 could have been stuck in this rift for ages until an anomaly happened? Off course they wouldn’t be ghosts, but they still could have been in this cycle of unknowing repetition. What if somehow in this loop Richtofen broke the cycle when he used the WunderWaffe and it miraculously, by fate or chance, sent them into the Future? The events of Der Riese might not have been linear. Maybe the O4 lived the cycle in Der Riese for a while until this different result occurred.

I believe this theory that the O4 were stuck in a loop should definitely be re-examined considering the events of MotD.

[FatedTitan]

Quote by Billy:

"You guys keep looking down like f'n ghosts!"

[scottyboy8341]

There's a line in the intro to the map where one of the characters (can't remember which of the top of my head) that says something along the lines of " We've been through this 50 times Sal ". If we're reliving the map every New Years Eve then that would place the map around '83.

Now assuming this is correct, maybe the Demonic Announcer has seen the zombies from our normal timeline and has seen the potiential for hell and havoc they cause our players. It decided to use It's own form to torment our M4. There only thing that still gets me is the Perk Machines. I can see the old perks fazing in and out because they don't belong but what about Electric Cherry. It remains "in this world" even after activated.

The other thing that's a little wierd is the shipping containers at the docks where our other two unobtainable perks are. They all say ZMB shipping which I register as ZoMBie shipping.

[Blitz]

I have my own theories on this whole scenario. But yet I agree with you to a certain degree. This all makes a lot of sense. Fated I have to talk to you on Xbox because there are certain points of mine that match up to yours and vise-versa. We need to collaborate our theories because I believe we could get to the bottom of it.

[AlphaSnake]

Where to start?...

Purgatory:

1. Roman Catholic Church A state in which the souls of those who have died in grace must expiate their sins.

2. A place or condition of suffering, expiation, or remorse: a purgatory of drug abuse.

Where are we going?

In Greek and Roman mythology, Cerberus is a multi-headed (usually three-headed) dog, or "hellhound" which guards the gates of the Underworld, to prevent those who have crossed the river Styx from ever escaping.

W_3cjNiFvFE

The game.

Am I here because of the things I've done?

The bad things?

Am I stuck here until I see the error of my ways?

Until I repent?

Sounds like Hell to me:

First Circle (Limbo).

Where are we going from here?...

Second Circle (Lust)

Third Circle (Gluttony)

Fourth Circle (Greed)

Fifth Circle (Anger)

Sixth Circle (Heresy)

Seventh Circle (Violence)

Eighth Circle (Fraud)

Ninth Circle (Treachery)

In the very centre of Hell, condemned for committing the ultimate sin (personal treachery against God), is Satan. Satan is described as a giant, terrifying beast with three faces, one red, one black, and one a pale yellow:

he had three faces: one in front bloodred;

and then another two that, just above

the midpoint of each shoulder, joined the first;

and at the crown, all three were reattached;

the right looked somewhat yellow, somewhat white;

the left in its appearance was like those

who come from where the Nile, descending, flows

This is where we are going.

I hope that all makes sense.

Great thread.

Regards Alpha.

Oh, I thought I'd add this in:

I have a lot of work to do.

[Floodtalon]

There is a big hole in your theory of Motd being post 1940's however. The Golden Gate Bridge ended construction in 1937. During the map the GGB is still under construction. How do you explain that?

[Stop Mocking Me0]

Yeah the bridge was still under construction, the debs could have missed a water tower, much more easilly then they miss a bridge...

Heres what I think happened: new years eve: 1933... (or which year fergison said, I think it was that)

weasel tries to escape, but the crew argues and ends up killing weasel... This sends weasel to a sort of limbo because: He is neither pure nor evil... He deserves to fight for his right not to be killed... As with religious belif...

But then along came Billy, Sal, and Finn.... Thou shall not lie, though shall not murder, though shall not commit adultery... And Satan came along and said: Ha! Here's an idea: Put these three fallen souls in with the weasel and see if we can drag him down too!...

Then they break out... And the SECOND Weasle murders "Furgison" (fake), BAM! Strait to hell....

Now they're in hell.... And the entire world of their hell, looks, feels, smells, tastes.... Just like the new years eves that they died... HOWEVER, It appears all four mobsters minds have been eraced.... Of any point other then what they were soposed to do that night...

So they start fighting... Being able to only fight via wall weapons, eletric cherry, and buildables and whatever else they had.... It was a pointless process... But every time they tried to build the plane... Sometimes they would succeed... Many times they would simply be killed and forced to restart all their progress....

Most of the mobsters lost their memorys when they reset, but al didnt for some reason... Maybe for more torchure... Maybe to prove something else.... But he remembered every little retry over and over and over....

They continued this process well though out the events of der reise, kino, moon, nuketown... All the way until the nukes hit...

Then WHAM all of a sudden their reality changes do to the rift.... Things start coming in: Phd, juggernog, double tap, pack a punch.... The dog heads also make an appearance... Brutus comes simply to mend these rifts by shutting down perk machines and what not... Why not f-up your box and windows while at it...

And for those who don't know the conection between the dogs and Brutus: Brutus is referring to the roman Brutus in Dante's version of satan, the one that killed Julius Ceaser (not spelled right), it is said he is kept in Satan's mouth as a form of eternal punishment along with two other souls also traped in Satan's other two mouths.... And his mouth looks like that of a dog... So 3 dog heads and a Brutus? Yep that's not coincidental...

Anyway these perks and the T-H added a HUGE advantage towards their goal of building a plane... So much, that they could travel there and back 3 times... So then they managed to rip another hole in this rift.... This rift was centered in the number mechanism.... By putting in the information of the mobsters caused Brutus to speak: So you want to know the truth.... And they learned of the events that really happened that night on the bridge, it didn't make much sense to billy, sal, and Finn... But they knew they needed to take out the weasel... And despite his pleading, they attempt to kill him yet again....

To keep things going and fix this particular bit of the rift, the mobsters would kill al, repeating history and continuing the cycle... BUT! If al should kill the mobsters, things get set out of motion and the cycle breaks, al at least doesn't wake back up in the sunset strip... He moves on... But the fate of the other three could be worce and even more terrifying then the prison....

That's what I think anyway....