Ghosts of Alcatraz

[Infected115]

But then along came Billy, Sal, and Finn.... Thou shall not lie, though shall not murder, though shall not commit adultery... And Satan came along and said: Ha! Here's an idea: Put these three fallen souls in with the weasel and see if we can drag him down too!...

Then they break out... And the SECOND Weasle murders "Furgison" (fake), BAM! Strait to hell....

mind...blown

never thought about it this way

[FatedTitan]

There is a big hole in your theory of Motd being post 1940's however. The Golden Gate Bridge ended construction in 1937. During the map the GGB is still under construction. How do you explain that?

My explanation would be that for some reason the bridge's construction was halted. It's tough and I wish I had a better answer for you, but that's all I can think of. I'm sure if I thought about it for a while, I could make something up in my head as to how it works haha.

[Floodtalon]

Well it makes sense that the bridge's construction would he halted due to the whole zombie apocalypse thing. Makes sense.

[PINNAZ]

There is a big hole in your theory of Motd being post 1940's however. The Golden Gate Bridge ended construction in 1937. During the map the GGB is still under construction. How do you explain that?

There is a big hole in the entire map. Fergusons audio says that the escape attempt took place on New Years Eve 1933, yet Alcatraz didn't become a Federal Penitentiary until August 1934?

The United States Disciplinary Barracks, Pacific Branch on Alcatraz was acquired by the United States Department of Justice on October 12, 1933, and the island became a Federal Bureau of Prisons federal prison in August 1934, after the buildings were modernized to meet the requirements of a top-notch security prison.

Trying to pinpoint exact map times to real life is impossible, there are too many loopholes & inconsistencies in nearly every map.

I want to connect this theory further to Der Riese.

Now remember before BO1 came out, and even months before MW2 , that there was the “1:15 Clock theory” in Der Riese. Essentially just like the clock in MotD, the clock in Der Riese kept resetting (or was it stuck?) on the same time, 1:15. This led some to theorize that In Der Riese, the O4 were stuck in a time loop.

When I first saw the clock in Der Riese, I have always wondered if time has been stuck in that infinite loop?

Sounds like Hell to me:

First Circle (Limbo).

Where are we going from here?...

Second Circle (Lust)

Third Circle (Gluttony)

Fourth Circle (Greed)

Fifth Circle (Anger)

Sixth Circle (Heresy)

Seventh Circle (Violence)

Eighth Circle (Fraud)

Ninth Circle (Treachery)

From the Loading Screen - "A cat has 9 Lives"???

There are some great discussions & posts within this thread. Well done all.

[Doppelgänger]

Wow. Absolutely brilliant read my friend. Definitely made a lot of sense to me.

~Experience

[OccipitantX]

Hey huge hole in your theory. You say the O4 are also stuck in some kind of loop, like the M4, as ghosts or something right? So why is it that when they die (go down) they don't behave the same way as the M4 ghosts and realize their nature and enter Afterlife?

[Gambit791]

Oh look, we're going back to the start when 115 was discovered in DLC 4. Looks like it's time to break the cycle and put an end to all these zombie shenanigans.

[PINNAZ]

Finally get to give you some Brains for this monster effort Mr Titan.

This was truely an awesome post. Thank you.

[Tattoo247]

Pretty good post, I have a couple of questions though, you may not have considered.

 

 

The writings on the wall, added through trail and error made my Weasel as a guide to get off the island, some wrote on paper, some on the walls in blood. You say that once they reach the end of their loop, it resets and everything starts over like a video recording. Why would the writings remain if it's on a looped track? Perhaps only major changes in a "loop" can disturb the order. We surely have seen writing in just about every map if not all, if even the O4 are in a loop the same question applies.

 

Also, you say that while in Afterlife, you are only aware of your death and the regret that comes with it, upon reviving yourself you lose the memory of being dead. Why then, are there no specific quotes from another player to back this up? Most of the time the person who goes down will revive themselves, and your theory makes perfect sense when thinking that way, but what if another player revives your dying body? I know the revived person would still lose memory but surely if I were laying on the ground dying and you revived me, it would strike you as strange you have no recollection right? It just seems like they would be aware of their ability to die and come back, especially with the quote from Sal, upon approaching a kill switch he says something a long the lines of "If anyone plans on offing themselves I think I found the way to do it". Of course this could just mean they want to try to kill themselves rather than facing zombies and trying to escape, just doesn't sit well with me being they are all hardened killers that live as gangters, which in itself is a kind of survival.

[bluntman420kj.]

hi i really liked this post, i think you should check out mine, Dark Hidden Secrets. its in grief mode fourm. i have alot of ideas also im not sure what to believe, i kinda think it ends on the island on grief mode. but id like your advice on this. my stories are all messed up i need some theories regarding my cell block hunt.

[PHD Flopper]

What if buried and origins is the same place and where the rift begun must also end?

[FatedTitan]

Pretty good post, I have a couple of questions though, you may not have considered.

 

 

The writings on the wall, added through trail and error made my Weasel as a guide to get off the island, some wrote on paper, some on the walls in blood. You say that once they reach the end of their loop, it resets and everything starts over like a video recording. Why would the writings remain if it's on a looped track? Perhaps only major changes in a "loop" can disturb the order. We surely have seen writing in just about every map if not all, if even the O4 are in a loop the same question applies.

 

Also, you say that while in Afterlife, you are only aware of your death and the regret that comes with it, upon reviving yourself you lose the memory of being dead. Why then, are there no specific quotes from another player to back this up? Most of the time the person who goes down will revive themselves, and your theory makes perfect sense when thinking that way, but what if another player revives your dying body? I know the revived person would still lose memory but surely if I were laying on the ground dying and you revived me, it would strike you as strange you have no recollection right? It just seems like they would be aware of their ability to die and come back, especially with the quote from Sal, upon approaching a kill switch he says something a long the lines of "If anyone plans on offing themselves I think I found the way to do it". Of course this could just mean they want to try to kill themselves rather than facing zombies and trying to escape, just doesn't sit well with me being they are all hardened killers that live as gangters, which in itself is a kind of survival.

 

 

Been a while since I've looked at this thread.  One of my best theories I believe.  Let me see if I can't answer these questions.

 

We can tell when the order is broken, when Ferguson is killed by Weasel, everything changes.  It goes from a normal prison to something completely different.  The reason the writings don't disappear is because they have not died as they should have.  The three men have not killed Weasel.  The other three did not get the electric chair, as described by Ferguson in the audio.  This was their true death.  Not zombies.  Not electric shock by generators in the prison.  One was shot, three got the electric chair.  Until this is put in the correct order, how it played out in reality, then the world around them will not change back to normal.  This is why the game ends when you do complete this.  When the three kill Weasel then use the electric chairs, the game ends.  There are no more zombies.  The game is back to how it should be.  It's no wonder that the cut scene plays at the beginning of every match.  Because without the death occuring, they'd just be reliving the normal thing that happened all the way back in the early 1930s.

 

 

To the characters only being conscious of their death when downed, I'd say listen to the quotes.  When they are down, they talk about their life and what it meant.  They realize their death and they talk about what it means to them.  But when they get back up, no one even acknowledges it.  It's as if they never went down.  They truly believe they are alive when they are fighting the zombies.  That's why Sal can ask who wants to off themselves.  They think that will kill them.  They don't realize they're already dead and the only thing it will do is bring them into this Afterlife mode.  And I agree, it would strike me as strange, but we have to make a distinction.  The O4, when revived, and even the T4, will make references to you helping them up and reviving them.  The M4 will not.  For some reason, perhaps because they are Ghosts, they don't recognize their death while they are up.

 

 

What if buried and origins is the same place and where the rift begun must also end?

 

I'm not sure how this fits into the thread, but I don't believe they are in the same place at all.  Buried is in Africa while Origins is in France.  I believe that we may go back to Der Riese at one point, since when hovering over it, it says something along the lines of this being where it all began, then questioning if this is where it will all end.  -shrugs-

 

But I'm still a little confused on where this question fits into the thread.  I may have just lost a bit of information that was posted here at one point that I don't realize anymore.

[Cheesegrater28]

Good post. I agree with a lot of this and never really considered how they understand their own death in the game when they go down, but its not aknowledged when they are revived. As you said, to everyone not down that revives them, its like Dempsey reviving Takeo on any other map. Its not a moment of someone dying but to the person who is down, they are aware of it. And then when they all die, their memories all reset. 

 

But I have to agree with Tatoo. Their memories reset but their effects on the map don't completely reset. The Weasel's  maps and notes show that he documents the loop and has a better understanding of it than the others. Partly because he is smarter than them and partly because he was there before them since he died in real life first. And since he died first and then they arrived, it shows that time is continuing while their loop goes on. As you state, its most likely a post 1940s map. Ferguson has retired in the real world and described the events in his recordings. So we can assume the map is at least 1942. 

 

But I think it even goes past that. I think they have been reliving the loop over and over up to a modern date. I think thats what the perks and weapon box show us, why the water tower is there, and the mention of Nikolai's name. As the real world goes on, perks from the real world pop up in the MotD world and so do the weapons. One reason why these things are suddenly phasing into the prison is because the map occurs after Moon. The rockets hit earth, the rift opens, and the real world is somehow merging with the place where the MotD map occurs. This is also why in the real world, the N4 start to relive their own loops on each map. But even they can make progress and save things before their loops restart. We can save money, weapons, and even build the Nav table which saves. So not everything resets. Time itself keeps going. 

 

The merging also explains the two different times on the clocks on Tranzit along with why Nacht might be there. Why Die Rise is in Province 22 but the city looks like Shanghai. Why there is an old Western town under and African mine. The Earth world is merging with this other world of the dead. Why we have a Tombstone and WHo's Who perk which affect people when they die and why we fight an actual ghost on Buried. 

 

The big question than is what is this other dimension/Purgatory/hell where MotD takes place? And does is mean something bigger to the story than MotD lets on. Once we acknowledge that a map takes place in an alternate reality that parallels our own, than it brings up the question of what other maps do this.  

 

MotD's setting a a dark stormy night. Origins is a dark stormy night. And both Origins and MotD have the same ending. If we complete the cycle on MotD, the Weasel escapes by floating straight up into the air spinning. If we break the cycle on Origins, the characters fly up into the air spinning. And the reason I say Origins is a cycle is because one of Sam's quotes is about "Not knowing how long they have been trapped here" or something like that. So is Origins and MotD happening in the same place?

 

Then we can also look at Ascension and Five. Five is another map that occurs during a storm and Ascension is a dark foggy night. Both maps start out in Black and White like MotD and Takeo says something about the dark being a place of the dead on Ascension. And Five is a scene in the Pentagon right before Kennedy is shot, according to the schedule on the map, just like how MotD is set right before those characters died. 

 

I've been trying to piece these things together for a while but its all very confusing when you try to commit to one specific timeline. I've been trying to make it as this alternate "Afterlife" place could be the Aether, which the MPD controls. And than whenever the eclipse is shown, it is a sign of Argatha. Like Origins is in the Aether and the end cutscene is in Argatha. But there is still so many pieces missing. And as you said in your first post about the water tower, you expect that Treyarch knows what they are doing when they added it. But than they do things like change the loading screens from CotD to Shagri La and than again from Die Rise to Buried. And then they change accents and appearances. And the Buried cutscene was showing Misty's gloves changing from scene to scene. Its hard to want to analyze small details when sometimes Treyarch doesn't seem to know exactly which way they want to go. 

[Number x FIVE]

But, Fated, have you forgotten about the official storyline? The Ancient Evil, i.e. the god of the zombies before Samantha, wanted to punish the four Mobsters  for their mistakes and sins by making them relive the same night, New Years Eve, 1933 over and over again.

 

The Warden, not Ferguson, had collected 115 and created Electric Cherry, Jugger-Nog, etc., etc. The 115 caused the humans to turn into zombies, which forced the four mobsters to fight them in order to survive.

 

In order to keep the cycle going, the Ancient Evil continued to resurrect the four mobsters over and over again, with no memory of what happened. If the cycle is broken, Weasel kills the other three Mobsters, then Weasel walks away from the prison safe and with no memory of Alcatraz.

 

They aren't ghosts, because if they were ghosts, then how would you explain Afterlife, because they would technically already be in Afterlife. 

 

A water tower might have been a mistake by the developers (somehow)

[thegoldenspork115]

When you put this theory side by side with the end cutscene on Origins, new theories could come to be.

Like maybe the cutscene suggests the the Rift has been mended. And that it all wasn't just a game made up by little kids. Instead, it all really did happen. But somehow someone went back and stopped Group 935 from testing with 115. Maybe this was Takeo, maybe it was Samantha. I'm leaning towards Samantha having a lot to do with it. It is obvious that she knows so much considering she retold the entire story. She's not your average little girl.

Incredible post Fated.

[PHD Flopper]

If they have no recollection of their death, then why do they mention holes in the walls after being revived?