Zombies is Changing for the Worse

[Delta]

I don't necessarily think it's getting worse, more of adapting to what the community asks for, just taken in a different way.

We ask for buildable traps? We got them.

Nuketown as Zombies? We got them.

Larger maps? We got them.

I'm not one to do a quest every time I play, and usually do it once or maybe twice if asked to do it, and usually play to kill, as the original intention was.

But look at it this way: If we, the players, mold the game by asking for certain things, then who are we to complain when we get them, but have them turn out in a different way than planned? We still get them, albeit in a different fashion.

Remember, this is THEIR game. Treyarch can shape and do whatever they wish to the game, and not care what we think, but they actually listen to us sometimes.

They could kill off the O4 and may have, and guess what? There isn't a thing we could do about it. Treyarch shapes the game we play, and ultimately it is their decision to where we go and what we do and what we get.

[InfestLithium]

Hm, this thread really has become the battle of simplicity versus uniqueness.

I like Zombies where it's at. Maybe it is because I care about all aspects of the game and not just straight-forward "will I get to Round X today?". I care about perming small tasks in order to achieve something. It allows me to feel satisfied because once you set yourself up, the odds of you having a bad time in Zombies are extremely low if you know what you're doing.

The gripe that most people have in Black Ops II Zombies has nothing to do with the maps or the weapons or the characters or the traps or the buildables - it's the sudden 180 approach from what Zombies used to be. For some odd reason, people are stuck in this weird limbo that if it doesn't retain its old former self, that it's bad because "it's different". To be honest, I don't want to play new maps where I say "Oh this is like ____________" because I actually prefer new maps that don't replicate one another.

That's just my two cents though. We all have our own preferences, and I understand where everyone is coming from. Some points I agree, and some I disagree. Either way, my love for Zombies doesn't change because I still get to slay some freakbags whenever I feel like regardless what is in my arsenal at the time.

[Spartica4Real]

Not reading the whole thread, but I agree to an extent. I want bigger, and larger maps like MotD.. but I don't wanna go through all this shit for a perk, only to have it locked by some lardo zombie. -__-

[SaLaD_FiNgErS_HD]

If you don't like the game then don't play it. Treyarch can make the game however they want. Calling people fanboys because they disagree with you is retarded. We're all fans of zombies here...otherwise we wouldn't be here.

So why don't you put in blops 1 and stop your whining. You seem to dislike the direction blops 2 has taken but guess what? Treyarch doesn't care, I don't care, no one cares. You don't like the game then don't play it, simple as that.

That's the perfect example of a fanboy. Just because I criticize a game that he loves, he berates me. Thank you for the excellent example Edward Richtofen!

If I'm a "fanboy" for still enjoying the new challenges presented to me, I guess your a "hipster" for liking zombies before it's spike in popularity

Could you eat the same meal everynight over the span of a few years? I couldn't. Changes must be made to keep the series from going stale. Do I always agree with them? No, I don't. Yet expecting me to buy the same thing over and over, just isn't going to happen. If the old maps still amuse you..... change the disc

[MrGibbs]

This is how I take BO2 Zombies...

Tranzit is TO HARD!

Nuketown is to easy!

Die Rise is WAY TO HARD!

So then they make an easy enjoyable map.

They're just listening to our feedback of the maps, and making the general kiddies happy.

If you don't like the new maps just find BO1 and go classic...

I do that some times.

[Matuzz]

I just hope that the lars map is France and its the same size as Kino or Riese.

I cant believe how bo2 must suck if your first zombie game would be bo2. You would be just so fucking lost that you wouldn't bother playing it again.

[MNM1995]

Trying to get my point across to a bunch of zombie fanboys is like trying to get a herd of cows to fly...

I see why so many people left these forums.

As soon as you criticize Zombies in the slightest bit you're labeled blasphemous, butt-hurt, stupid, etc..

Thanks for your opinions, I didn't get as much discussion out of this thread as I'd hoped, but at least I learned a lot.

I'm not being funny or anything, but what did you expect? Coming on to THE zombies forum to say you think it's becoming shit, I really doubt you honestly thought we were all just going to agree with you, did you?

Most of us on here (shockingly) love zombies and like the new direction it's going in as we get to experience a more puzzling zombies experience (especially in Mob Of The Dead).

You doing this is like when a Battlefield fanboy would comment on a MW3 trailer saying "Battlefields better" from a couple of years back- it's like you were trying to start something.

[lycozz]

I agree with Eternal. I think it's ridiculous people can say that "Treyarch are only making the game better" That's an opinion, yet people throw it about as if it's a fact. In reality they are just adding more stuff.

I've played zombies since Nacht and I can remember upon the release of Verruckt how exciting all the new additions were. Not just the perks and traps, but the characters, putting life into zombies. Also there was a slight 'challenge' in co-op, meeting up with the two people on the other side. That was a good addition, I'm surprised they've never had split spawns since. I was never too good at Verruckt, but I enjoyed playing it. Shi No Numa and Der Riese came along, and I enjoyed them too, and everyone has always said how good Der Riese is, whereas I always felt Shi No Numa was better, until recently, I would always play co-op and enjoyed camping in a hut with four players.

Black Ops zombies was obviously a little bit different, but they didn't change much. I thought both Kino and Five were great maps, especially the addition of the Pentagon Thief on Five. They were still simple, but challenging nonetheless. I ignored Ascension's release, I have no clue why, but did get Call of the Dead almost straight away. This map was brilliant, I'm still not entirely sure why I thought it was so great, but it put my attention back on zombies.

There were no massive differences between these maps, maybe the addition of a new perk, but nothing massive. I bought all the maps on Black Ops in the end, and enjoyed every one of them.

But Black Ops 2 was very different for me. I played Tranzit and thought it was great at first. But then after finding out about the Denizens, the lava that covered every possible pathway ever, and the perk Tombstone, that I felt just didn't fit with zombies for some reason, I didn't really like the map. It was massive, and there was no REAL wonder weapon. Which brings me onto the Jet Gun. Absolutely ridiculous that this is the best weapon for high rounds. Even more so that they patched the 'glitch' making it pretty much impossible to reach the rounds possible on Black Ops 1.

I liked Die Rise, but again, I felt the 'Wonder Weapon' didn't quite fit with the black ops 1 WWs. It's obviously brilliant, even after a patch, but it doesn't feel right imo, and is the patch has messed up high round players strategies.

Mob of the Dead. I only just got this yesterday, despite having the season pass. I just didn't feel hyped at all, even though the trailers looked great. I've played it twice, reached round 20, but even that makes me feel like this map is different. Maybe I preferred it when I wasn't any good at zombies because it was challenging. I know there is the addition of these sidequests to make it a challenge. But I feel they shouldn't force you to have to do so much stuff just to pack-a-punch. Purgatory is also a bit strange, I don't want to have to use it for so many different things. Maybe because I haven't explored enough this map could be better then I first thought.

Anyway, I can respect that people enjoy the sidequests, or completing easter eggs, or anything similar, but I enjoyed the simplicity of earlier maps, where you weren't forced to do complicated things, but had the option to. The first time you play a map should be one of the best times you play it, but MOTD didn't feel fresh and interesting enough for me. I'm sure my opinion will change when I play it more, but for now, I agree with Eternal that the additions to zombies are making it lose its touch a bit for some players.

[FatedTitan]

You're right that it's our opinion that it's going in the right direction. But it's also your opinion that it's going in the wrong direction. The problem with this thread is we are giving our opinions that it's fine, but the other side is claiming theirs as fact.

And you say that you remember WaW and the additions that made zombies what it is...characters, perks, teleporters, and more. It's the same thing here. They're just adding more stuff. The direction hasn't changed. It's just different stuff.

[Chopper]

MNM1995 -

I do love that you basically accused me of being a liar, which I gave clear evidence I wasn't and then you just post and say nothing about it.

Edit - this topic was reported. People are giving their opinions, and whilst there have been some strong words and somewhat insults it has stayed clean. Keep it that way please.

[lycozz]

You're right that it's our opinion that it's going in the right direction. But it's also your opinion that it's going in the wrong direction. The problem with this thread is we are giving our opinions that it's fine, but the other side is claiming theirs as fact.

And you say that you remember WaW and the additions that made zombies what it is...characters, perks, teleporters, and more. It's the same thing here. They're just adding more stuff. The direction hasn't changed. It's just different stuff.

Do you not feel like it's annoying that you have to spend much more time now to do things that used to be simple? I'll still play zombies it's just annoying how you are forced to do other things to achieve things that used be simple (PaP)

[ZombieOfTheDead]

Do you not feel like it's annoying that you have to spend much more time now to do things that used to be simple? I'll still play zombies it's just annoying how you are forced to do other things to achieve things that used be simple (PaP)

I'd give you that the tranzit one was rather annoying, but I don't see why it's so incredibly bad for the other two.

There also does need to be some new feature to make the maps not so samey every time, something new to do, and that fits the bill. Question for you guys, are you all mostly just annoyed with this on solo? I could see how that's annoying, because solo really is just about getting to high rounds which is a pain if you have to go to more lengths to get what you need. Try playing co-op instead, you probably won't notice quite as much because that's just all about fun.

[Edward Richtofen]

Do you not feel like it's annoying that you have to spend much more time now to do things that used to be simple? I'll still play zombies it's just annoying how you are forced to do other things to achieve things that used be simple (PaP)

It's one of those things though, that once you do it a few times it becomes easier and easier until it becomes 2nd nature. And then you don't even consider it difficult anymore.

The first time playing MOTD, trying to get the plane built seemed really difficult as everything was new, now not so much. One game I played we got all the gas cans, hit the box for new guns, and went and pap'd mid-round 30.

At least you don't need your team to coordinate to use the pap and really if in a lobby of all randoms you could 'in theory' do everything yourself (usually a teammate would grab a part i'm assuming). Remember Shang? Yeah good luck paping when someone doesn't have a mic, it's not going to happen.

[lycozz]

Do you not feel like it's annoying that you have to spend much more time now to do things that used to be simple? I'll still play zombies it's just annoying how you are forced to do other things to achieve things that used be simple (PaP)

It's one of those things though, that once you do it a few times it becomes easier and easier until it becomes 2nd nature. And then you don't even consider it difficult anymore.

The first time playing MOTD, trying to get the plane built seemed really difficult as everything was new, now not so much. One game I played we got all the gas cans, hit the box for new guns, and went and pap'd mid-round 30.

At least you don't need your team to coordinate to use the pap and really if in a lobby of all randoms you could 'in theory' do everything yourself (usually a teammate would grab a part i'm assuming). Remember Shang? Yeah good luck paping when someone doesn't have a mic, it's not going to happen.

Yeah, I'm not saying it's impossible to work out yourself, but I don't look stuff up anymore, I think that makes the map more enjoyable. I've only played MOTD twice so I never built the plane, got 3-4 parts I think, built the shield found the key easily enough, and got myself an AcidGat. I guess once I know how to do everything I'll probably realise it's fine. Treyarch seem to have got it right, as most on this thread seem to be in favour of this map. But there's always going to be people who don't like it. I agree with Chopper saying there should be a map more like the original zombie maps, I feel the closest on BO2 is Nuketown, but there's no wonderweapon so high rounds aren't exactly easy.

And yeah I agree about Shang, Moon as well, even worse when they want to stay in NML for ages. Tranzit PAP still annoys me on solo as my turbine always seems to break before I get there even if I haven't used it at all. I haven't played MOTD co-op, so didn't know you could PAP without cooperation. Always a good thing.

On a lighter note, I'm enjoying grief on cell block, a bit challenging without Jugg, but still fun nonetheless.

[FatedTitan]

You're right that it's our opinion that it's going in the right direction. But it's also your opinion that it's going in the wrong direction. The problem with this thread is we are giving our opinions that it's fine, but the other side is claiming theirs as fact.

And you say that you remember WaW and the additions that made zombies what it is...characters, perks, teleporters, and more. It's the same thing here. They're just adding more stuff. The direction hasn't changed. It's just different stuff.

Do you not feel like it's annoying that you have to spend much more time now to do things that used to be simple? I'll still play zombies it's just annoying how you are forced to do other things to achieve things that used be simple (PaP)

I understand where you're coming from, but if I had a bunch of Kinos, I'd get bored with it after a while. Don't get me wrong, it's a fun map, but I don't want every map exactly like it.

I like the new things they throw in. New challenges, new perks,new weapons make certain maps stand out and unique. It's what draws people to certain maps and away from others.

So if I have to do a little more to get to PaP, okay. It's really not that hard to do, just take a little bit more time.

[lycozz]

Yeah I guess, I know I could just go back and play the old maps, and I do that often tbh, but it's that human nature of wanting to keep up (play on the newest map) and this maps probably one of the harder ones to work out things for yourself. But whatever, assuming the last DLC will be something crazy and hopefully brilliant, I would love the next one to be a bit more nostalgic.

[Tasty Applesauce]

I didn't want to have to say it like this, but since this thread has now been labeled "blasphemous" I feel I must...

BO:2 is for fanboys. Plain and simple. The reason so many out there like this new map and think it's the greatest is because of the quests, but Zombies did not start out with these quests, they've been added in as the Zombie popularity grew. Treyarch is thinking the quests make Zombies popular, so they're modeling their new maps to please these quest seeking fanboys and alienating the true slayer fans in the process.

This is the real blasphemy.

It's so clear to me, but I suppose the fanboys won't be able to see it. For example:

Alluva sudden we have illuminated parts in MotD, big difference from the parts in TranZit and Die Rise. So, it's Treyarch saying, "Here's the part, get it." and furthermore you're given a list of all the parts on your game ending screen. They're telling you what parts you need. They're obviously wanting you to do the quest, making the quests easier, actually.

Coming from a quest seeking fanboy's eyes, that's awesome. I get that, you're a fanboy, you like the quests, you're happy, but your happiness has cost me my enjoyment because I can't play MotD and just slay, I have to do some quest related things in order to get the setup I need for slaying. Such a shame because I really do like how MotD looks, I don't entirely mind the map's layout, either...It's not the easiest for slaying, but it could be worked around. Now we add in the perk issue and it's broken. It's not impossible, but it's so much bullshit effort that I'd much rather just play TranZit or any of the awesome maps from BO:1.

So, go ahead fanboys. Revel in your victory. Zombies won't be the first thing you've destroyed for the real fans.

LOL I like how I'm labelled a fanboy for liking how they've improved zombies and not sharing your opinion.

Basically your opinion is if it doesn't stay the same than it sucks, anybody that disagrees is a fanboy. Grow up lol.

I have never once ran into the problem of taking 50 minutes to run around and get everything after going down, that's just your lacking in skill Mr. True Zombie slayer haha. You're getting mad because they illuminate the plane parts and show you how many parts and what they're for on the HUD? They did this not for fanboys but because zombies is growing, more and more people are being pulled into it so yes they're trying to make it appeal to a bigger audience and get people into the quests. Maybe they keep making them easier because we have been missing a bunch in the ones we were given already and they wanted to show us just how much they could hide in a map.

perks are easy and I don't understand your trouble, the only one isolated is juggernog but that's only a gondola ride away, if you cut through the catacombs you can get DT as well, speed cola is right up from DT and electric Cherry and Deadshot are super close as well and not all that far from speed cola.

Its like you haven't even gotten down the fundamentals of the maps, yet you're bashing them, half of what you wrote just makes me shake my head and facepalm.

[Tasty Applesauce]

Not to mention that they DID put in harder more hidden sidequests, not many people know that you can upgrade the Retriever, or even get the spork. There's probably even more that we haven't found yet

[minator177]

This is how I take BO2 Zombies...

Tranzit is TO HARD!

Nuketown is to easy!

Die Rise is WAY TO HARD!

So then they make an easy enjoyable map.

They're just listening to our feedback of the maps, and making the general kiddies happy.

If you don't like the new maps just find BO1 and go classic...

I do that some times.

Who ever said Die Rise was hard? That was the easiest and most simple maps in all of black ops 2.

[Tasty Applesauce]

If you don't like the game then don't play it. Treyarch can make the game however they want. Calling people fanboys because they disagree with you is retarded. We're all fans of zombies here...otherwise we wouldn't be here.

So why don't you put in blops 1 and stop your whining. You seem to dislike the direction blops 2 has taken but guess what? Treyarch doesn't care, I don't care, no one cares. You don't like the game then don't play it, simple as that.

That's the perfect example of a fanboy. Just because I criticize a game that he loves, he berates me. Thank you for the excellent example Edward Richtofen!

You seem to not realize that games need to evolve over their lifespan to remain alive. If all they did was keep spitting out Nachts the game would have died. If all they did was stick to original 4 perks the game would've died. If all they did was make new blops 1 maps the game would be dying.

I've played zombies since WaW and own every cod title since cod 4. I am a fan of zombies and of cod in general. Do I blindly agree with everything they do? No. If that makes a 'fanboy' then so be it. I really don't give a shit what you label me as.

I would say what I label you as but it wouldn't be very nice so I won't.

Zombies has evolved and will continue to evolve as long as it's still alive. There will always be those who dislike the changes that are made but that won't stop the game from changing. Whether you like it or not, the game has moved on from blops 1 and it is not going back.

So you can either suck it up and adapt to the game or not.

this. lol. +1

[Tasty Applesauce]

Trying to get my point across to a bunch of zombie fanboys is like trying to get a herd of cows to fly...

I see why so many people left these forums.

As soon as you criticize Zombies in the slightest bit you're labeled blasphemous, butt-hurt, stupid, etc..

Thanks for your opinions, I didn't get as much discussion out of this thread as I'd hoped, but at least I learned a lot.

you are one of the biggest hypocrites I've ever come across.

as soon as anyone has a opinion that differs from yours you have a name for them as well, I don't understand why you're so shocked when you bring it on yourself. :?

[TheBSZombie]

are you going to reply eternal?

[Electric Jesus]

You are all mad that the changes they're making aren't as good as the ones made in WaW. Well DUHHH!!

It started as a game with 3 rooms, no perks, a few dozen guns, and a bunch of zombies. That's it. Obviously the first changes which lay the foundation for the entire series are going to be the best and most influential! You can hardly complain that the more recent changes are different. Think of the game like a human being. 90% of what a human learns is in the first 12 years of its life (WaW.) it then continues to learn afterwards, but in a slightly different, more developed way. Yes it's becoming more complex. But is that necessarily a bad thing? Absolutely not!

[Rissole25]

Some people need to calm down and keep their pants on. It's starting to get out of hand now.

Everyone's got a right to an opinion, but there's no need for insults from either side. Personally I stand by my opinion on the last zombie thing.

Not everything in Zombies HAS to be liked. But will that stop Eternal or anyone else from playing? Of course not! There are still two map packs left that may or may not make him like the direction it's taking. It's a big world out there.

[FatedTitan]

I didn't want to have to say it like this, but since this thread has now been labeled "blasphemous" I feel I must...

BO:2 is for fanboys. Plain and simple. The reason so many out there like this new map and think it's the greatest is because of the quests, but Zombies did not start out with these quests, they've been added in as the Zombie popularity grew. Treyarch is thinking the quests make Zombies popular, so they're modeling their new maps to please these quest seeking fanboys and alienating the true slayer fans in the process.

This is the real blasphemy.

It's so clear to me, but I suppose the fanboys won't be able to see it. For example:

Alluva sudden we have illuminated parts in MotD, big difference from the parts in TranZit and Die Rise. So, it's Treyarch saying, "Here's the part, get it." and furthermore you're given a list of all the parts on your game ending screen. They're telling you what parts you need. They're obviously wanting you to do the quest, making the quests easier, actually.

Coming from a quest seeking fanboy's eyes, that's awesome. I get that, you're a fanboy, you like the quests, you're happy, but your happiness has cost me my enjoyment because I can't play MotD and just slay, I have to do some quest related things in order to get the setup I need for slaying. Such a shame because I really do like how MotD looks, I don't entirely mind the map's layout, either...It's not the easiest for slaying, but it could be worked around. Now we add in the perk issue and it's broken. It's not impossible, but it's so much bullshit effort that I'd much rather just play TranZit or any of the awesome maps from BO:1.

So, go ahead fanboys. Revel in your victory. Zombies won't be the first thing you've destroyed for the real fans.

LOL I like how I'm labelled a fanboy for liking how they've improved zombies and not sharing your opinion.

Basically your opinion is if it doesn't stay the same than it sucks, anybody that disagrees is a fanboy. Grow up lol.

I have never once ran into the problem of taking 50 minutes to run around and get everything after going down, that's just your lacking in skill Mr. True Zombie slayer haha. You're getting mad because they illuminate the plane parts and show you how many parts and what they're for on the HUD? They did this not for fanboys but because zombies is growing, more and more people are being pulled into it so yes they're trying to make it appeal to a bigger audience and get people into the quests. Maybe they keep making them easier because we have been missing a bunch in the ones we were given already and they wanted to show us just how much they could hide in a map.

perks are easy and I don't understand your trouble, the only one isolated is juggernog but that's only a gondola ride away, if you cut through the catacombs you can get DT as well, speed cola is right up from DT and electric Cherry and Deadshot are super close as well and not all that far from speed cola.

Its like you haven't even gotten down the fundamentals of the maps, yet you're bashing them, half of what you wrote just makes me shake my head and facepalm.

No need to insult others. Everyone has their own opinion. Let's respect those opinions.