Zombies is Changing for the Worse

[Tasty Applesauce]

I didn't want to have to say it like this, but since this thread has now been labeled "blasphemous" I feel I must...

BO:2 is for fanboys. Plain and simple. The reason so many out there like this new map and think it's the greatest is because of the quests, but Zombies did not start out with these quests, they've been added in as the Zombie popularity grew. Treyarch is thinking the quests make Zombies popular, so they're modeling their new maps to please these quest seeking fanboys and alienating the true slayer fans in the process.

This is the real blasphemy.

It's so clear to me, but I suppose the fanboys won't be able to see it. For example:

Alluva sudden we have illuminated parts in MotD, big difference from the parts in TranZit and Die Rise. So, it's Treyarch saying, "Here's the part, get it." and furthermore you're given a list of all the parts on your game ending screen. They're telling you what parts you need. They're obviously wanting you to do the quest, making the quests easier, actually.

Coming from a quest seeking fanboy's eyes, that's awesome. I get that, you're a fanboy, you like the quests, you're happy, but your happiness has cost me my enjoyment because I can't play MotD and just slay, I have to do some quest related things in order to get the setup I need for slaying. Such a shame because I really do like how MotD looks, I don't entirely mind the map's layout, either...It's not the easiest for slaying, but it could be worked around. Now we add in the perk issue and it's broken. It's not impossible, but it's so much bullshit effort that I'd much rather just play TranZit or any of the awesome maps from BO:1.

So, go ahead fanboys. Revel in your victory. Zombies won't be the first thing you've destroyed for the real fans.

LOL I like how I'm labelled a fanboy for liking how they've improved zombies and not sharing your opinion.

Basically your opinion is if it doesn't stay the same than it sucks, anybody that disagrees is a fanboy. Grow up lol.

I have never once ran into the problem of taking 50 minutes to run around and get everything after going down, that's just your lacking in skill Mr. True Zombie slayer haha. You're getting mad because they illuminate the plane parts and show you how many parts and what they're for on the HUD? They did this not for fanboys but because zombies is growing, more and more people are being pulled into it so yes they're trying to make it appeal to a bigger audience and get people into the quests. Maybe they keep making them easier because we have been missing a bunch in the ones we were given already and they wanted to show us just how much they could hide in a map.

perks are easy and I don't understand your trouble, the only one isolated is juggernog but that's only a gondola ride away, if you cut through the catacombs you can get DT as well, speed cola is right up from DT and electric Cherry and Deadshot are super close as well and not all that far from speed cola.

Its like you haven't even gotten down the fundamentals of the maps, yet you're bashing them, half of what you wrote just makes me shake my head and facepalm.

No need to insult others. Everyone has their own opinion. Let's respect those opinions.

I hope you're referring to Eternal calling everybody fanboys when you say that because all I did was offer a reality check, if I wanted to insult him I would've worded that a lot more colorfully.

[NZheadshot1]

sorry to tell you, your doing it wrong....

lol. he thinks chopper's wrong. Hey everybody, this guy thinks chopper's wrong!

Sorry BS, but I have to agree with him. I'm ps3 player and so I haven't gotten to pay this map yet, but based on tranZit and die rise, I can easily agree. It takes WAY TO DAMN LONG to get set up for a single game of zombies

[ThrowAmonkeyBomb]

Hi guys, seems to be a bit of a heated discussion going on here.Well, ThrowAmonkeyBombs here to tell it like it is!YES, zombies is changing.Yes tranzit sucks.Yes, Der Riese is the best map, with the possible exception of MOTD as im on ps3 and havent played it yet.But i like where zombies is going! i would like to see a der riese style map in the future, complete with all the toys we have seen so far.But comeon guys..the ak47 in zombies! Nuketown zombies!Whos who! a massive area called green run, and empty!!!(last bit was sarcasm).I wanted the ak for forever, and NTZ!!getting monkeys on die rise is a pain.NO TRAPS IN DIE RISE is a pain.But you know what! Die Rise is a great map!especially in co-op, still waiting to get a really good co-op game in! quit being angry and enjoy zombies!BTW,if you guys wanna see some der riese, be sure to stay tuned for updates on my youtube about the BIG 50!

[TheBSZombie]

sorry to tell you, your doing it wrong....

lol. he thinks chopper's wrong. Hey everybody, this guy thinks chopper's wrong!

Sorry BS, but I have to agree with him. I'm ps3 player and so I haven't gotten to pay this map yet, but based on tranZit and die rise, I can easily agree. It takes WAY TO DAMN LONG to get set up for a single game of zombies

Tranzit took 30 mins too set up and thats tranzit. It takes 30 mins to get done with mob of the dead. You never need to hit the box on motd. You actually dont need to get golden spork if you are planning on a high round. You only need to get the hells redeemer because its a insta kill as far as me and perfect know. I wasnt saying he was wrong i was just saying he might not have perfected it yet. Hell i havent either. My strategy has changed multiple times. Becoming faster each time. My record now for having jug and the 3 dogs fed is round 3.

And you obviously didnt read the rest of the posts because i explained myself before. Plus there was another guy stating other stuff about him that was worse then what i said because i was saying that with the meaning to help and not disrespect

[ETEl2NAL407]

Insults or emotionally charged discussions won't receive any direct response from me. I didn't intend for this to become so heated, but I suppose I struck a nerve. Of course, we are all huge fans of Zombies. Black Ops 1 or 2 is usually the disc that stays in my Xbox, I try to download all my other games and I'm sure many of you are like me. Even though we're all passionate about Zombies, the discussion must calm down and not seem so aggressive. I apologize if I offended anuyone with my comments.

The good thing about this new map is that today I went back to play Die Rise and had an amazing game. lol...

Personally, I would love 20 different Kinos or Ascensions. I'd be happy if they spent more time giving us a larger arsenal or giving us more ways to modify the arsenal...How about a mode where I get to choose what guns show up the walls and what perks I want in the map. Better yet, let me gain experience and upgrade my guns just like in Multiplayer.

I love the way the true nature of how to play maps like Kino aren't clear until the higher rounds, but once that format is discernible the functionality of the map just fits so nicely. It can get you into a 'zone' and really make you feel like an epic zombie slaughtering hero. Only certain maps can boast having such a natural feel, I haven't gotten that in MotD and in the other two from BO:2 they feel forced as if they were afterthoughts to the primary goal of the map.

I really identify with this statement that | GRILL | made:

You want Kino 2.0? You want Der Reise 2? Not going to happen - know why? BECAUSE THOSE MAPS ARE MASTERPIECES.

Maybe I'm too critical, but I want another masterpiece, damnit.

[Jolteon]

Well this thread certainly is a big angry bowl of hatred Let's all calm down and sing a happy song together:

ooyqk_sZguk

Now, onto my opinions. Okay, TranZit sucks. Okay, you have to work harder. But you have to get used to it; Zombies is not what it was on World at War. I'm with you guys; nothing pleases me more than travelling back to good ol' World at War and slaying some Zombies on Der Riese. But Treyarch woudn't be changing Zombies so much if it weren't for the better. Zombies would die if it didn't change.

World at War showed us the start of the Zombies saga. With Black Ops they showed us the potential of Zombies with the epic Easter Eggs. Black Ops Two represents stage three; the era of building our own fate. Zombies is evolving to keep itself alive. If in Black Ops they just pumped out the same old Der Riese style maps, people would have gotten bored and given up. They definitely would have if they didn't change for Black Ops 2. Treyarch have done what 99% of companies fail to do. Continue one storyline to expand over three games. THREE GAMES. And, to be completely honest, I wouldn't be too surprised to see it reach a fourth, or even a game completely solo.

Would it be nice to have another Der Riese styled map? Sure it would. Would I much prefer that Zombies evolves and continues for as long as it possibly can? Most definitely. Treyarch are a truly fantastic company that actually listens to fan feedback. We should respect that and accept that things have to change so that Zombies can live on.

-Jolteon

[ETEl2NAL407]

I wouldn't be too surprised to see it reach a fourth, or even a game completely solo.

Honestly I think this is where my main frustration lies.

We have always seen Zombies as a game within a game. Certain rules and functionality of the Zombies mode were presented and adhered to. Throughout BO:1 these rules were bent and the functionality of certain maps was altered to test out new things, namely the EE quests. As we see Zombies now, it's still a game within a game, yet they continue to warp the established functionality and try new things out, but with the release of MotD, I see the functionality warped to the point that I don't see it as a game within a game any longer.

I believe we have entered a transitional phase. Zombies will surely become a stand alone game and the functionality akin to earlier Zombies will continue to be altered. I think MotD is making steps in the wrong direction, I stick by hoping that the funcionality of the Zombies that's been established throughout WaW and BO:1 remains untarnished, but Treyarch has made huge strides in setting these new maps apart.

I want to get back to basics. Including elaborate quests and EE's is fine, so long as they don't affect a core functionality. I should be able to go into ANY Zombies map and acquire perks as fast as strategically possible, ignore the quests and just slaughter. Some may argue that this Purgatory mode is part of the strategy and you'd be right...It is now, but it never was in the previous Zombies maps.

No other games make such huge changes to established strategies, they just add in deeper storylines, new characters, and new gear. They do not alter the staples of their game. The major problem is that what I thought was established as a Zombie staple has been tampered with.

[NZheadshot1]

Tranzit took 30 mins too set up and thats tranzit. It takes 30 mins to get done with mob of the dead. You never need to hit the box on motd. You actually dont need to get golden spork if you are planning on a high round. You only need to get the hells redeemer because its a insta kill as far as me and perfect know. I wasnt saying he was wrong i was just saying he might not have perfected it yet. Hell i havent either. My strategy has changed multiple times. Becoming faster each time. My record now for having jug and the 3 dogs fed is round 3.

And you obviously didnt read the rest of the posts because i explained myself before. Plus there was another guy stating other stuff about him that was worse then what i said because i was saying that with the meaning to help and not disrespect

Yea I'll admit, I didn't read the other posts, sorry about that :oops:

On the other hand, 30 minutes in Der Riese or Kino got me to about round 20~25 without having to do any crazy set ups. 30 minutes is too long to simply get set up. We should be mostly set up from the moment we set foot into the map

[Jolteon]

No other games make such huge changes to established strategies, they just add in deeper storylines, new characters, and new gear. They do not alter the staples of their game. The major problem is that what I thought was established as a Zombie staple has been tampered with.

See this is where I disagree massively. There a really A LOT of games that completely change between games despite having success with an old formula. Example number 1; Dragon Age. Dragon Age Origins was a truly awesome game, and yet when Dragon Age 2 came out, they completely altered the combat system and the general style of play. Did this deter from the overall functionality of the game? No! Of course it didn't!

To be completely honest, there hasn't been that much changed at all really when you really think about it. They have made it harder by making you work for the Perks rather than just giving them to you. They have put a focus on the storyline; but considering that is why the vast majority of us are here, I can't see why there is a problem with that. They've brought in new methods of play; new stratergies. Again, what is the issue here?

The simple fact is, Zombies has changed and it's not going back. So how about instead of spending your time complaining about how "Zombies is Changing for the Worse", how about you embrace the fact that most of the Zombies community are actually enjoying the changes and you consider the opinions of others? The changes would not have been made if the majority of the fan base didn't want them! I'm sorry my friend, but you are in the minority here. If it really bothers you that much then go back to BO1 and play those maps. Zombies has changed. Deal with it.

End rant.

-Jolteon

[ThrowAmonkeyBomb]

black ops 1 is the pinnacle of zombies.Bo2 is still great though...all zombies is fun..even waw nacht :lol:

[ETEl2NAL407]

They have made it harder by making you work for the Perks rather than just giving them to you.

So, buying a door leading to the perk and then having enough money to purchase it is giving you the perk?

I don't ever remember starting a Zombies map with a perk. I've always had to work for them.

I will be in the minority, I don't care if my likes are reciprocated or accepted. Outside of Grill's offer to play the map with me and share the enjoyment he gets out of it, nothing will change my mind. You can accept that or not, but I will not relinquish my campaign to discuss my discontent with the new direction of Zombies. This thread will continue with or without your input. If it really bothers you so much that I dislike MotD, maybe you should make an offer similar to Grill's...Or find a different thread to rant about.

[Jolteon]

They have made it harder by making you work for the Perks rather than just giving them to you.

So, buying a door leading to the perk and then having enough money to purchase it is giving you the perk?

I don't ever remember starting a Zombies map with a perk. I've always had to work for them.

I will be in the minority, I don't care if my likes are reciprocated or accepted. Outside of Grill's offer to play the map with me and share the enjoyment he gets out of it, nothing will change my mind. You can accept that or not, but I will not relinquish my campaign to discuss my discontent with the new direction of Zombies. This thread will continue with or without your input. If it really bothers you so much that I dislike MotD, maybe you should make an offer similar to Grill's...Or find a different thread to rant about.

Dude I couldn't care less whether you like the map or not. The issue I have is that you are effectively using a forum dedicated to appreciating Zombies as a way to vent your displeasure. This isn't the place.

-Jolteon

[ETEl2NAL407]

Actually, I'm criticizing the game and offering ideas that I think would be an improvement.

This absolutely is the place.

[ThrowAmonkeyBomb]

Actually, I'm criticizing the game and offering ideas that I think would be an improvement.

This absolutely is the place.

Dont argue with my man jolteon and seriously, i understand both sides to this.I made a similar rant about bo2 zombies once.But die rise changed my mind,Green run is pretty terrible.

[Jolteon]

Actually, I'm criticizing the game and offering ideas that I think would be an improvement.

This absolutely is the place.

In that case the title could be misleading. To me it suggests its a place to vent your annoyance at the changing series.

I'm sorry I don't mean to be a grouch Sometime I can be weird and randomly blow up over random and insignificant things I'm over reacting and I'm sorry

-Jolteon

[Diz-Infinite]

You see... the beautiful thing about zombies is you don't have to do objectives. For someone like myself that first discovered Zombies from WAW, its been the same game, just different maps. See, after 11 maps of the same monotonous objective, it gets, well, boring. I welcome the fact that the maps are larger, that you have to build things, that you have a CHOICE to do the new features. If it doesn't appeal to you, buy the doors, grab your gun and dig in. Or grab a team and assemble the equipment, and do the story related objective. Also, zombies was always a campaign for zombies. Its always had a story, all the way from Nacht Der Untoten. This is nothing more than a sequel to the story, and if you don't like it, then sir, Zombies is not the game for you.

[MrGibbs]

This is how I take BO2 Zombies...

Tranzit is TO HARD!

Nuketown is to easy!

Die Rise is WAY TO HARD!

So then they make an easy enjoyable map.

They're just listening to our feedback of the maps, and making the general kiddies happy.

If you don't like the new maps just find BO1 and go classic...

I do that some times.

Who ever said Die Rise was hard? That was the easiest and most simple maps in all of black ops 2.

Remember not everyone has the same opinion than you, I've talked to many members who all agree Die Rise is just not hard but not fun and annoying.

[BuscusBros]

LOVE the idea of custom wall weapons/upgradable weapons! LOVE IT!

[Tattoo247]

Some valid points on not liking BO2 zombies. I have went thought the love and hate phases where when I first got the game I really liked it, then as time went on I started to hate Tranzit. Die Rise was awesome (NTZ too) and gave me the much needed break from Tranzit, which ended up making like the map again by taking such a lengthy break from it.

Lot's of people I play with complain about the elevator perks and all that but I don't understand something, EVERYTIME you go to get a new tramplesteam, you pass the area where you can tramplesteam to get a key to the elevators, granted you want to go to the roof again. Only time I ever use the keys is if I need a perk or if my PaP weapon is in the machine and goes down/up. I guess it's just how you play and the style you like.

Just got mob of the dead last night so I won't try to voice any hard opinions other than so far so good!

I've killed so many zombies since WaW that I am more than happy to see zombies evolve as the maps come out. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with popping in your WaW or BO1 disk.

[Megaton A]

I'm honestly surprised at how much I find myself disagreeing with OP's points since I usually feel like the grumpy old man around here for being so let down by most of Black Ops II Zombies so far... after reading this particular thread it seems I lie somewhere in the middle.

I'm all for change. I'm all for earning things. I think even TranZit and Die Rise (both of which I have come to despise and will probably never play again) had some really solid concepts and a lot of potential... that was ultimately wasted due to questionable design choices. I will agree that the answer is to find a balance in things, but I personally feel like MotD finally found that balance... or at least was a HUGE step in the right direction.

I don't see how we're being forced to do any questing for things. Yes, we have to build the plane to get to the PaP... but we also had to activate the teleporters to get to it in Der Riese, launch the landers and rockets in Ascension, set the defcon in Five, etc. The only difference is that we can't just run back to it whenever we want... and if that is your complaint then I do agree with you. IMO once you've built the plane you should be able to go back whenever you want, but picking up the gas cans is a minor annoyance that takes a minute or two so I don't find it map-breaking. As far as perks, I don't find powering them in afterlife an annoyance at all... it takes about two seconds, and once you have gone to the bridge once they are all powered anyways. At least you're doing SOMETHING.... unlike TranZit where you're spending five minutes waiting for the bus or running around in the fog, or Die Rise where you're standing around tapping your foot waiting for some slow as hell elevator. Waiting- making zombies exciting since 2012! Also, the boss.... is pretty easy to deal with. I hated every boss in BO, but this one goes down quick and I've never personally had a problem with him locking perks down (quite to contrary, the only problem I've had is him NOT locking things down for the achievement). Hell, get to know his spawns and a couple claymore make him a complete non-issue.... just a free drop. I feel like they finally made a boss that is well-balanced.

I also find it depressing that people are still using the old tired "you must suck at this map if you don't like it!" argument, but I guess I shouldn't expect any less. BTW, I absolutely hate TranZit and had no problem hitting round 40+ multiple times without ever having to build the pre-patch Jet Gun.... but since I don't enjoy it I obviously am horrible at it?

I had a lot more points to make, but I'm seriously lacking sleep so I'll just say this; I'm sure there are people on here that are total fanboys that will love anything Treyarch does, and I'm sure there are people who hate change and will hate anything new they try.... but they're the minority and there's no reason to start the name calling because someone disagrees with you. Criticizing a map is not "blasphemy", and there's nothing at all wrong with voicing your concerns here. This is a very active forum in the Zombies community and I'm sure the team monitors it to some extent... if we don't make our voices heard when we dislike something then they will never know what we want.

I dunno... I need a 12 hour nap.

[ETEl2NAL407]

For being so tired, you made your points very eloquent. Brains to you, that was a great post.

I really love Green Run/TranZit because it's all about options. Sure I still have to quest a little bit to turn on the power or PaP, but the beauty is that I can still have a good game without doing any of that. They've made the map function so that I don't need a lot of extras. I can have a good game just by grabbing a gun from the wall and using the map to my advantage (training).

MotD, doesn't function the same way. Sure I can still grab a gun off the wall and try to use the map to my advantage, but I won't have the game I'd have on Green Run. Everyone must admit that. Foregoing perks, the box, and PaP, which map is going to flow better, GR or MotD? It's that flow that makes a great Zombies map, IMO. I want that flow first, power, PaP, perks, EE's, that's all just icing on the cake, to me...It's good to have, but no matter how sweet the icing is, if you don't have a good cake to put it on, you have a bad cake. The flow makes the map, not the extras. I think MotD put too much focus on these extras and not enough on the flow.

[Prince Lolz]

i know that im gonna get alot of hate for this...and im not just trying to contradict everyone, but I actually LOVE the direction 3arc is taking zombies. For the longest time Der Riese was my favorite map, but after 4 years Die Rise took its place. I love that map to death. the topsy turvey style, the beautiful scenery, and yes even the elevators. they arent that big of a deal to wait for and I think its kinda fun to have to wait and time everything right. And dont get me started on how awesome Motd is. And why do you say its hard? motd is by far the EASIEST map yet.

[TheBSZombie]

i know that im gonna get alot of hate for this...and im not just trying to contradict everyone, but I actually LOVE the direction 3arc is taking zombies. For the longest time Der Riese was my favorite map, but after 4 years Die Rise took its place. I love that map to death. the topsy turvey style, the beautiful scenery, and yes even the elevators. they arent that big of a deal to wait for and I think its kinda fun to have to wait and time everything right. And dont get me started on how awesome Motd is. And why do you say its hard? motd is by far the EASIEST map yet.

Where have you been? I want to play with you. someoene that actually loves most of the new things. I say most because im pretty sure everyone hates one of the things.

[Prince Lolz]

Dude PM me either on here or on xbox/ps3. i own both.

GT: Prince Lolz

Psn thingy: Prince_Lolz

[Stop Mocking Me0]

I disagree zombies has been getting better in black ops 2 IMO...

Tranzit was HORRIBLE! The survival maps were slightly better, die rise better then that, and now MOTD is top notch! Can't wait to see what they have next!