Maxis' true intentions are finally revealed!

[ZombieOfTheDead]

You obviously know nothing of evil. Try defining it. It's practically made up. The term evil in itself is fictional. What is evil? It's your perception. Your bias. The Nazis were evil, because America, who won the war, said so. Would've been the same the other way around.

Also, nice to know if a kid takes all the cookies for himself that his selfishness is an act of evil. =_=

It's not really a made up thing as you say, however there are generally things that pretty much all of civilized society can agree are evil. Killing is the biggest of them, especially for selfish reasons.

Also, the cookie part is bullshit, the only one who is really hurt there is the kid who ate way too much of that.

BTW, did you read the whole part about him being an antagonist, which is what we basically all mean? It seemed like you kinda skipped out on that...

[Infected115]

You obviously know nothing of evil. Try defining it. It's practically made up. The term evil in itself is fictional. What is evil? It's your perception. Your bias. The Nazis were evil, because America, who won the war, said so. Would've been the same the other way around.

Also, nice to know if a kid takes all the cookies for himself that his selfishness is an act of evil. =_=

the kid and the cookies, its messed up but greed IS suppose to be the 4th cirlce in hell so..blame religion lol but wen putting it that way, i get wat you mean.

Evil is profound immorality.[1] In certain religious contexts evil has been described as a supernatural force.[1] Definitions of evil vary, as does the analysis of its root motives and causes.[2] However elements that are commonly associated with evil involve unbalanced behavior involving expediency, selfishness, ignorance, or neglect.[3]

its all on how we see his intentions and motives.some say its evil, some say its the right thing to do....ONE THING is certain, the next map will be VERY interesting lol

[BlazeyTheWolf115]

You could say the exact same thing about good as well, just saying.

Maxis isn't good, it's obvious. Mass genocide = evil.

There's no way around that.

The needs of the many should outweigh the needs of the few.

In this case, Maxis is the few and we are the many, our survival as a race far outweighs his selfish desire to be reunited with his daughter.

[Tattoo247]

How about we say Maxis isn't evil, to the extent of intention.

Say you have a child, that child is taken away from you from someone you know. Would you do anything possible to get the child back? Would you take an innocent life to save another life closer to you?

It's a big circle as far as debating, like politics and religion the "what ifs" and "what abouts" are never ending. Some say it's evil to kill the innocent person to get the kid, some say it's pure intention that drives someone to do anything, and can justify taking a life to keep the child alive.

The fact is people do things everyday, in the name of something, that something will affect the life of someone else, but if the intention outweighs the outcome...then you're talking about something in between good and evil. INTENTION doesn't have a yes or no, right or wrong.

I'm sure that wasn't confusing at all :lol:

[ZombieOfTheDead]

We all need to just bury the hatchet anyways. It's more the action that is evil anyways; however, given just the scale of the action, and his past deeds, I think it is important to note that Maxis is very far from good.

I think it's still fair to call him an antagonist, because he is screwing everyone over in that sense.

[Matuzz]

Richtofen's boss was Maxis. Maxis's bosses were the Nazis. Since Richtofen signed up for them, Richtofen also worked for the Nazis. The Nazis told Maxis to make an army of the undead. Maxis wrote in his personal files that he thought the undead army was going to be a massive failure.

Maxis did what he did because he had to.

So you are just ignoring all the acts because chain of command....

That's like saying every Nazi were good guy they were only doing what Hitler said. One reason why in trials after war the accused couldn't cover their asses by saying they were just doing what they were ordered to save themselves.

The Reishtag surely had no idea about zombies until Maxis presented the idea to them after learning about what 115 was capable of. Then he conducted more human tests, blew up earth and now is trying to finish the job.

[MysteryMachineX]

Many Nazis were in fact good guys. Keep in mind that the first country the Nazis invaded was their own.

Maxis took active steps to thwart Richtofen. He put him on busy-body projects. He told him to stop killing people. He purposefully never released the DG-2.

And no. You are wrong. Zombies were created as an accident of 115. The Reichstag found out and said to make more. Maxis always hated zombies.

Your hate blinds you.

[Matuzz]

Many Nazis were in fact good guys. Keep in mind that the first country the Nazis invaded was their own.

Maxis took active steps to thwart Richtofen. He put him on busy-body projects. He told him to stop killing people. He purposefully never released the DG-2.

And no. You are wrong. Zombies were created as an accident of 115. The Reichstag found out and said to make more. Maxis always hated zombies.

Your hate blinds you.

"Zombies were created as an accident of 115. The Reichstag found out and said to make more. Maxis always hated zombies."

Could you post some proof on that one? Yes zombies were an accident but how do you back up that The Reichstag was the one to first find it out?

You got any example on friendly Nazis? Please don't mix Wehrmacht with Nazis.

[MysteryMachineX]

Servant data entries detail 115 reanimating dead cells as a side-effect of the otherwise more useful attributes. Following entry states Reichstag want zombies.

Friendly Nazis? How about the fact I met one? Grandfather of a friend of mine. Seen the movie Valkyrie? Not all Nazis were evil. Thirteen times Hitler was almost assassinated by his own men.

[LJx19]

You know, this all dates back to the centuries old argument of what defines good and evil.

Immanuel Kant said the only good or moral actions relies on the motive. Hence, if your perform an action with a virtuous motive, collateral damage should be ignored. But if you guys are gonna side with maxis (and so by extension Kant) you should remember Kant was a Christian and his good/morals were based on the bible.

VS

Richard Mill another philospher who argued, no it is not the will, but the outcome that matters. In mill's definition, good is providing the greatest happiness to the greatest number of people. This side of course prefers richtofen. Richtofen was never even slightest bit interested in doing anything for anyone but himself, he craved power and he sear he'd for it relentlessly. He was honest through and through. And he wants to give humanity the fighting chance. And I highly doubt many people would be happy if maxis gave them a sudden swift end, no chance for survival.

In conclusion it is a fight about the lesser of two evils of which by any standards, Kant or Mill, richtofen is the winner.

[TheNathanNS]

I sense another twist coming in DLC 4.

[MysteryMachineX]

You know, this all dates back to the centuries old argument of what defines good and evil.

Immanuel Kant said the only good or moral actions relies on the motive. Hence, if your perform an action with a virtuous motive, collateral damage should be ignored. But if you guys are gonna side with maxis (and so by extension Kant) you should remember Kant was a Christian and his good/morals were based on the bible.

VS

Richard Mill another philospher who argued, no it is not the will, but the outcome that matters. In mill's definition, good is providing the greatest happiness to the greatest number of people. This side of course prefers richtofen. Richtofen was never even slightest bit interested in doing anything for anyone but himself, he craved power and he sear he'd for it relentlessly. He was honest through and through. And he wants to give humanity the fighting chance. And I highly doubt many people would be happy if maxis gave them a sudden swift end, no chance for survival.

In conclusion it is a fight about the lesser of two evils of which by any standards, Kant or Mill, richtofen is the winner.

I forgot about that. But you just reminded me. Yes, there is more than one way to determine which is evil. You can't say which way is "right" per say. But I define evil by intention and thus Kant. Anyway, you made an intelligent point but you undermined by the saying Richtofen was better. Richtofen's intent is awful, and his outcome isn't much better. Outcome v. outcome, stalemate. Intent v. intent, Maxis.

[Scoldon]

Our old planet Earth had to die, so a new world in the Aether would rise. At least Rich gets a playground. I'm happy for him.

[LJx19]

You know, this all dates back to the centuries old argument of what defines good and evil.

Immanuel Kant said the only good or moral actions relies on the motive. Hence, if your perform an action with a virtuous motive, collateral damage should be ignored. But if you guys are gonna side with maxis (and so by extension Kant) you should remember Kant was a Christian and his good/morals were based on the bible.

VS

Richard Mill another philospher who argued, no it is not the will, but the outcome that matters. In mill's definition, good is providing the greatest happiness to the greatest number of people. This side of course prefers richtofen. Richtofen was never even slightest bit interested in doing anything for anyone but himself, he craved power and he sear he'd for it relentlessly. He was honest through and through. And he wants to give humanity the fighting chance. And I highly doubt many people would be happy if maxis gave them a sudden swift end, no chance for survival.

In conclusion it is a fight about the lesser of two evils of which by any standards, Kant or Mill, richtofen is the winner.

I forgot about that. But you just reminded me. Yes, there is more than one way to determine which is evil. You can't say which way is "right" per say. But I define evil by intention and thus Kant. Anyway, you made an intelligent point but you undermined by the saying Richtofen was better. Richtofen's intent is awful, and his outcome isn't much better. Outcome v. outcome, stalemate. Intent v. intent, Maxis.

I feel it's the other way around, intent v intent ( lust for power by any means necessary vs lust for daughter (NOT SEXUAL OBVIOUSLY) by any means necessary) its a stalemate. Outcome vs outcome (all humans annihilated vs human survival and fighting chance) is rich.

[Shooter]

+1000 To everything MMX and Tac has said.

I'd rather be dead than be a mindless slave to some phsychopath.

Enjoy being slaves to that Rat.

[ZombieOfTheDead]

+1000 To everything MMX and Tac has said.

I'd rather be dead than be a mindless slave to some phsychopath.

Enjoy being slaves to that Rat.

Honestly, I don't think he would make everyone his slaves. That's probably too boring to him. Better to have a fighting chance. Even if everyone was a slave, there is always still a chance.

[brett307]

It all boils down to the intentions here: at least Maxis was trying to save his daughter, and has stated that he regrets the destruction of mankind as a result but as a father, he is willing to do anything to find Samantha.

Richtofen, on the other hand, simply wants the world as his little pet. The only reason why he keeps it alive is because of the power it grants him- if there were no zombies inhabiting it, surely he would dispose of it by now. Also, let's not forget the future presented to the N4 during his side of the Easter Egg- all four of them lay dead surrounded by invincible zombies. Clear proof he plans to leave them for death and find a new host to inhabit after completing his side of the Easter Egg.

+10000000 to MurderMachine, Tac and Shooter.

[Shooter]

+1000 To everything MMX and Tac has said.

I'd rather be dead than be a mindless slave to some phsychopath.

Enjoy being slaves to that Rat.

Honestly, I don't think he would make everyone his slaves. That's probably too boring to him. Better to have a fighting chance. Even if everyone was a slave, there is always still a chance.

Richtofen has made his goal very clear by now: He wants to control the living, not just the undead. N4 help Richtofen complete his goals, the Earth is healed, and Richtofen controls this new world. N4 help Maxis, Richtofen's "New World" is destroyed.

Richtofen has been telling us since Tranzit what his intentions are.

"You will be the hero that has saved all of the Earth... FOR ME TO PLAY WITH!" - Richtofen. Tranzit.

[LJx19]

Better to die fighting with some hope for survival, than suffer a coward's death.

For the guy who said enjoy being slaves to a psycho (2 lazy to quote), need I remind you, either way you're submitting yourself to a psycho. In both cases maxis and richtofen both become "gods" of the world. Except one says just die and the other says, here take a crapload of guns, and go apeshit, and if you die, you die.

Richtofen > maxis. Forever

[Stop Mocking Me0]

Yeah the whole maxis doesn't really reward you was a big middle finger to the face... GLAD I DID RICHTOFEN!

[TheRealMistyBriarton]

Well I believe Richtofen is the lesser of two evils, I am doing Maxis's Side because I ended up doing Maxis for Tranzit so im just sticking to one path, in terms of the debate, I would rather life and try to fight, and have a even the slightest chance of living, at the mercy of Richtofen then die a cowards death at the hand of Maxis, I would want to live and fight.

Maxis is obviously the bigger of two evils here, but because he wants to commit Genocide on Humanity "To Save Them" from Richtofen's games, through a lot of it is just about besting Richtofen, along with saving Samantha his daughter of course, Maxis obviously thinks he has good intentions, and in a way has a point because, anyone who do anything to save there child, however he is the Antagonist, he wants to kill us all, and thus we must stop him.

As for the next map, I believe Maxis's ending will be the Canon Ending (in a way, I think Maxis will remain the announcer, but Richtofen will be in the Ather fighting for control with Maxis), and that the N4 will die, the O4 (O3/with Samtofen, or Richtofen if he somehow gets back into his body) will be back I believe, Richtofen I think will use whatever power he has left to get the O4 off the Moon to help him defeat Maxis

[Shooter]

Better to die fighting with some hope for survival, than suffer a coward's death.

For the guy who said enjoy being slaves to a psycho (2 lazy to quote), need I remind you, either way you're submitting yourself to a psycho. In both cases maxis and richtofen both become "gods" of the world. Except one says just die and the other says, here take a crapload of guns, and go apeshit, and if you die, you die.

Richtofen > maxis. Forever

Not to sound rude, but you have no idea exactly what either Maxis or Richtofen will do once we complete their goals, it's still very unclear what position Maxis will be in if he succeeds in his mission. It's also unclear how Richtofen will rule his new world, but I can promise you this it won't be pretty very the people under his rule.

Listen, I know every one likes Richtofen. It was everybody's favorite character to play as, I get it. He had funny quotes, everybody liked him. And people will continue to defend him because he was their favorite player in Black Ops. But if you had been following the actual story of Zombies since W@W (aka like Tac, MMX, and I have) you would look at the whole Richtofen vs Maxis with a much more open mind.

If you honestly think Maxis is bad and Richtofen is good, you need to go back and do your research. Sorry.

[TheRealMistyBriarton]

Better to die fighting with some hope for survival, than suffer a coward's death.

For the guy who said enjoy being slaves to a psycho (2 lazy to quote), need I remind you, either way you're submitting yourself to a psycho. In both cases maxis and richtofen both become "gods" of the world. Except one says just die and the other says, here take a crapload of guns, and go apeshit, and if you die, you die.

Richtofen > maxis. Forever

Not to sound rude, but you have no idea exactly what either Maxis or Richtofen will do once we complete their goals, it's still very unclear what position Maxis will be in if he succeeds in his mission. It's also unclear how Richtofen will rule his new world, but I can promise you this it won't be pretty very the people under his rule.

Listen, I know every one likes Richtofen. It was everybody's favorite character to play as, I get it. He had funny quotes, everybody liked him. And people will continue to defend him because he was their favorite player in Black Ops. But if you had been following the actual story of Zombies since W@W (aka like Tac, MMX, and I have) you would look at the whole Richtofen vs Maxis with a much more open mind.

If you honestly think Maxis is bad and Richtofen is good, you need to go back and do your research. Sorry.

None of us think Richtofen is good, I think Maxis is the bigger evil of the two, Richtofen is more just bloody insane, and he is a bad guy, but Maxis is evil.

[LJx19]

Better to die fighting with some hope for survival, than suffer a coward's death.

For the guy who said enjoy being slaves to a psycho (2 lazy to quote), need I remind you, either way you're submitting yourself to a psycho. In both cases maxis and richtofen both become "gods" of the world. Except one says just die and the other says, here take a crapload of guns, and go apeshit, and if you die, you die.

Richtofen > maxis. Forever

Not to sound rude, but you have no idea exactly what either Maxis or Richtofen will do once we complete their goals, it's still very unclear what position Maxis will be in if he succeeds in his mission. It's also unclear how Richtofen will rule his new world, but I can promise you this it won't be pretty very the people under his rule.

Listen, I know every one likes Richtofen. It was everybody's favorite character to play as, I get it. He had funny quotes, everybody liked him. And people will continue to defend him because he was their favorite player in Black Ops. But if you had been following the actual story of Zombies since W@W (aka like Tac, MMX, and I have) you would look at the whole Richtofen vs Maxis with a much more open mind.

If you honestly think Maxis is bad and Richtofen is good, you need to go back and do your research. Sorry.

Not to sound ignorant but I honestly don't care. I've read the majority of theory threads on this site and I sadly do know what I'm talking about. Fact of the matter is richtofen has been painted as the bad guy all along and its hard for the "theorists" of the site to part with that now that rich and maxis have laid out their ultimatums. I mean we've all heard the quotes by now.

My opinion of maxis changed ever since moon when he attempted to destroy earth to stop richtofen. There's no actions to justify mass murder to stop one person.

Also my fave char was always Dempsey ._.

[TheRealMistyBriarton]

Better to die fighting with some hope for survival, than suffer a coward's death.

For the guy who said enjoy being slaves to a psycho (2 lazy to quote), need I remind you, either way you're submitting yourself to a psycho. In both cases maxis and richtofen both become "gods" of the world. Except one says just die and the other says, here take a crapload of guns, and go apeshit, and if you die, you die.

Richtofen > maxis. Forever

Not to sound rude, but you have no idea exactly what either Maxis or Richtofen will do once we complete their goals, it's still very unclear what position Maxis will be in if he succeeds in his mission. It's also unclear how Richtofen will rule his new world, but I can promise you this it won't be pretty very the people under his rule.

Listen, I know every one likes Richtofen. It was everybody's favorite character to play as, I get it. He had funny quotes, everybody liked him. And people will continue to defend him because he was their favorite player in Black Ops. But if you had been following the actual story of Zombies since W@W (aka like Tac, MMX, and I have) you would look at the whole Richtofen vs Maxis with a much more open mind.

If you honestly think Maxis is bad and Richtofen is good, you need to go back and do your research. Sorry.

Not to sound ignorant but I honestly don't care. I've read the majority of theory threads on this site and I sadly do know what I'm talking about. Fact of the matter is richtofen has been painted as the bad guy all along and its hard for the "theorists" of the site to part with that now that rich and maxis have laid out their ultimatums. I mean we've all heard the quotes by now.

My opinion of maxis changed ever since moon when he attempted to destroy earth to stop richtofen. There's no actions to justify mass murder to stop one person.

Also my fave char was always Dempsey ._.

You take the words out of my mouth, all of us know Richtofen and Maxis are evil, Richtofen has always been painted as a bad guy since Shi No Numa, Maxis used to be Richtofen's victim, however he has shown himself to be just a bloody insane as Richtofen, difference Maxis is doing it for the love of his daughter, while Richtofen is just mad for power, Maxis is the eviler of the two, he is the one who wants to commit mass genocide, and has already done it once when he blew up the Earth, and he won't hesitate to do it again.