Treyarch maybe realized they made a mistake.

[feedthemachine94]

With the N4, they seem to be done for. We see their demise with Richtofen and Maxis destroys the Earth and it's people. Now to me, it's pretty anti-climatic since we don't really experience this that much, it's more being said than anything.

My point is that, Treyarch knew we didn't like these characters, and they killed them off so they can bring back the O4. I personally believe the O4 could have easily telaported back to Area 51, and helped either Maxis or Richtofen instead of the N4. Wouldn't it be awesome if Samantha just started cursing out Takeo, Dempsy and Nikolai if we chose Richtofen for the Easter Eggs?

Also, I read a post last night about how Tank and Misty are related, and it blew my mind. Maybe Treyarch didn't make a mistake, but at the same time, they're similarities because it's the same writers, and it could easily just be their writing skills that just make it coincidental, all writers have a style and it doesn't really change much too often.

In the end, I just feel Treyarch knew we want the O4 back, and we will love any map that they're on. If Tranzit, Buried, and Die Rise had the O4, would you hate it as much? Most likely not, Tranzit wouldn't be such a bore if we had to listen to the same quotes by the N4 that weren't all that exciting. Tank always makes me laugh, same with Nikolai, so I would have some sort of fun playing Tranzit.

[Vyhl]

It's impossible for Tank and Misty to be related. That's common sense.

[TheBSZombie]

It's impossible for Tank and Misty to be related. That's common sense.

He didn't mean it like brother and sister, that should be common sense....

But I don't they changed the story to kill off the n4, I think it was already planned. I don't think that the zombie team makes up the story as they go. No great story is made up while its written. They usually brainstorm in the beginning and get am outline. That's why a teacher says to make an outline before you start writing an essay or some other form of writing.

Yea some small things are made up as they go, but the big pieces were probably thought about before bo2 was made. And yea I do believe that treyarch has saw some of the errors of the past and are going to try to avoid those. You can see that in buried. One of misty's quotes is "I'm on fire. Not literally, remember when we were, that SUCKED." That quote shows that they know that we really don't like fire that much and treyarch know that.

[DaPikmin]

It's impossible for Tank and Misty to be related. That's common sense.

He didn't mean it like brother and sister, that should be common sense....

But I don't they changed the story to kill off the n4, I think it was already planned. I don't think that the zombie team makes up the story as they go. No great story is made up while its written. They usually brainstorm in the beginning and get am outline. That's why a teacher says to make an outline before you start writing an essay or some other form of writing.

Yea some small things are made up as they go, but the big pieces were probably thought about before bo2 was made. And yea I do believe that treyarch has saw some of the errors of the past and are going to try to avoid those. You can see that in buried. One of misty's quotes is "I'm on fire. Not literally, remember when we were, that SUCKED." That quote shows that they know that we really don't like fire that much and treyarch know that.

Is it possible that they could have had two ideas ready, one if the N4 were to continue, and one if the O4 came back?

[TheRealMistyBriarton]

Personally I never liked the N4 (Except Misty, of course) and wanted the O4 back the entire along, so I am happy and content. :D

[TheNathanNS]

The N4 are dead?!?

Way to go out with a bang Treyarch. '-_-

Also Misty and Dempsey aren't related. Dempsey had a 5 year old daughter in 1945.... in 2025.... she'd be 80. Misty doesn't look 80.

It's like Samuel and Richtofen are related because they're German.

[TheRealMistyBriarton]

The N4 are dead?!?

Way to go out with a bang Treyarch. '-_-

Also Misty and Dempsey aren't related. Dempsey had a 5 year old daughter in 1945.... in 2025.... she'd be 80. Misty doesn't look 80.

It's like Samuel and Richtofen are related because they're German.

Both are stupid ideas, very much agreed.

[Slade]

I really don't get all this 'the N4 are dead' talk.

First of all, one argument many people use is that Richtofen tells them they're dead in the future so bam they won't come back.

Well that's kind of true, IF and if only you do Richtofen's side which may not even be canon.

The other argument is that well Maxis destroys the earth so there you go - they're dead either way.

This also is not exactly true, he specifically says 'once the gateway is open' meaning that the gateway is currently still closed and whatever Maxis needs to do to open it will take a considerable amount of time. Time that the N4 can use to foil his plans.

It's most likely that Zombies will return in Treyarch's next game.

[Of course we'll have to see how Origins ties in with the story], but chances are

the N4 story arc will continue in Treyarch's next game. With them of course trying to stop Maxis' plans from reaching fruition.

[feedthemachine94]

Personally I never liked the N4 (Except Misty, of course) and wanted the O4 back the entire along, so I am happy and content.

I understood that they wanted to create a new atmosphere with different characters, but it just didn't work.

[Rissole25]

There's no proof the N4 are dead.

The way I see it (and am hoping) is that this map is just there because "everyone" loves the O4 and thinks they're the greatest thing since sliced bread. With the negative reception the N4 got, Treyarch just thought "oh we'll just bring back the O4 and make everyone happy".

In reality, I think they wanted to continue the story forward with the N4. Have a climatic finale with the N4 and Maxis/Richtofen. A great final chapter to Black Ops 2. Instead they gave into pressure and gave us the O4. Instead of moving the story forward, they gave us a prequel. To give us backstory and not ruin the plan they had set in motion.

With the next Treyarch game, I definitely think we will start off with the N4 and the events that followed Buried. Maybe not exactly as it would've been had it been the finale, as I'm sure there will be changes story and gameplay wise to suit a first map rather than a finale map.

Anyway, that's what I think happened.

[feedthemachine94]

There's no proof the N4 are dead.

The way I see it (and am hoping) is that this map is just there because "everyone" loves the O4 and thinks they're the greatest thing since sliced bread. With the negative reception the N4 got, Treyarch just thought "oh we'll just bring back the O4 and make everyone happy".

In reality, I think they wanted to continue the story forward with the N4. Have a climatic finale with the N4 and Maxis/Richtofen. A great final chapter to Black Ops 2. Instead they gave into pressure and gave us the O4. Instead of moving the story forward, they gave us a prequel. To give us backstory and not ruin the plan they had set in motion.

Exactly why I said Treyarch made a mistake, or it's too soon to replace our favorite heroes.

[DaPikmin]

The N4 are dead?!?

Way to go out with a bang Treyarch. '-_-

Also Misty and Dempsey aren't related. Dempsey had a 5 year old daughter in 1945.... in 2025.... she'd be 80. Misty doesn't look 80.

It's like Samuel and Richtofen are related because they're German.

Imagine if he could hear Richtofen AND be the one who he takes over only because he was German as well.

[Vyhl]

It's impossible for Tank and Misty to be related. That's common sense.

He didn't mean it like brother and sister, that should be common sense....

But I don't they changed the story to kill off the n4, I think it was already planned. I don't think that the zombie team makes up the story as they go. No great story is made up while its written. They usually brainstorm in the beginning and get am outline. That's why a teacher says to make an outline before you start writing an essay or some other form of writing.

Yea some small things are made up as they go, but the big pieces were probably thought about before bo2 was made. And yea I do believe that treyarch has saw some of the errors of the past and are going to try to avoid those. You can see that in buried. One of misty's quotes is "I'm on fire. Not literally, remember when we were, that SUCKED." That quote shows that they know that we really don't like fire that much and treyarch know that.

I know he didn't mean it like that obviously. I assumed he meant a father daughter relationship which is also impossible. The only way I can see this is the slim chance that Tank is Misty's great great great uncle or something.

[Vyhl]

I really don't get all this 'the N4 are dead' talk.

First of all, one argument many people use is that Richtofen tells them they're dead in the future so bam they won't come back.

Well that's kind of true, IF and if only you do Richtofen's side which may not even be canon.

The other argument is that well Maxis destroys the earth so there you go - they're dead either way.

This also is not exactly true, he specifically says 'once the gateway is open' meaning that the gateway is currently still closed and whatever Maxis needs to do to open it will take a considerable amount of time. Time that the N4 can use to foil his plans.

It's most likely that Zombies will return in Treyarch's next game.

[Of course we'll have to see how Origins ties in with the story], but chances are

the N4 story arc will continue in Treyarch's next game. With them of course trying to stop Maxis' plans from reaching fruition.

Why does no one realise both sides of the EE are canon to the story. Campaign has 4 different possible endings that are all canon. Zombies always has subtle ties to campaign whether it's locations or story drive. Campaign has 4 different endings. Zombies has 2 different endings.

Jimmy Z even said we make the decision. The power is in our hands. We get to choose who wins in this tale of ours. Both Maxis and Richtofen Buried endings are canon.

EDIT: Sorry for double posting :(

[BriggzyJ97]

Although I'm not sure, I think the argument that the N4 are dead because of round infinity is a moot one, because of how the N4 cross their timelines rather than just going forward in time. Plus do we not remember that the controller of the aether can bring people back to life. Ala Die Rise intro

[TheBSZombie]

It's impossible for Tank and Misty to be related. That's common sense.

He didn't mean it like brother and sister, that should be common sense....

But I don't they changed the story to kill off the n4, I think it was already planned. I don't think that the zombie team makes up the story as they go. No great story is made up while its written. They usually brainstorm in the beginning and get am outline. That's why a teacher says to make an outline before you start writing an essay or some other form of writing.

Yea some small things are made up as they go, but the big pieces were probably thought about before bo2 was made. And yea I do believe that treyarch has saw some of the errors of the past and are going to try to avoid those. You can see that in buried. One of misty's quotes is "I'm on fire. Not literally, remember when we were, that SUCKED." That quote shows that they know that we really don't like fire that much and treyarch know that.

I know he didn't mean it like that obviously. I assumed he meant a father daughter relationship which is also impossible. The only way I can see this is the slim chance that Tank is Misty's great great great uncle or something.

He didn't even mean that. When he said related I'm assuming he didn't mean like a family relation. More along of the lines as saying that they are related like that the resonator is related to the thunder gun because they both kill with a burst of air. Related may have been the wrong word. Maybe similar would have been a better choice.

[Rissole25]

Exactly why I said Treyarch made a mistake, or it's too soon to replace our favorite heroes.

But that's where our opinion differs. I actually really liked the N4. They brought something fresh the O4 could not provide. Were they replacing the O4? Defiantly not. It just that this portion of the story was told through their eyes. I don't think it was a mistake to tell the story through a set of different eyes. A different perspective, a fresh view on things, and a chance to provide fresh side-stories that had nothing to do with Group 935 or the Vril-Ya. It was well needed to have a set of new characters to co-exist along with the O4, as they were getting repetitive and stale. Could the N4 have been better? Yes, and so could the maps to reflect them (Die Rise could've been made Broken Arrow's HQ, much needed backstory on Russ and Stuh would've been given, but nope). But they weren't as bad as most people made them out to be.

[Slade]

But that's where our opinion differs. I actually really liked the N4. They brought something fresh the O4 could not provide. Were they replacing the O4? Defiantly not. ~~ Could the N4 have been better? Yes, and so could the maps to reflect them (Die Rise could've been made Broken Arrow's HQ, much needed backstory on Russ and Stuh would've been given, but nope). But they weren't as bad as most people made them out to be.

This.

They were actually fine characters, much better written than the O4.

Furthermore Treyarch 'killing the N4' just to bring back the O4 because "we" don't like the N4 seems illogical. As any good writer will tell you once you've established a good cast of characters that people love and can relate to, as soon as you replace them with a completely different set of new characters, people will always get pissed off. Treyarch knew this and still went with it, I'm sure they won't switch back to the O4 'just because a part of the community' dislikes the N4.

[feedthemachine94]

Exactly why I said Treyarch made a mistake, or it's too soon to replace our favorite heroes.

But that's where our opinion differs. I actually really liked the N4. They brought something fresh the O4 could not provide. Were they replacing the O4? Defiantly not. It just that this portion of the story was told through their eyes. I don't think it was a mistake to tell the story through a set of different eyes. A different perspective, a fresh view on things, and a chance to provide fresh side-stories that had nothing to do with Group 935 or the Vril-Ya. It was well needed to have a set of new characters to co-exist along with the O4, as they were getting repetitive and stale. Could the N4 have been better? Yes, and so could the maps to reflect them (Die Rise could've been made Broken Arrow's HQ, much needed backstory on Russ and Stuh would've been given, but nope). But they weren't as bad as most people made them out to be.

Oh no, I'm not saying they weren't bad characters, they did bore me in Tranzit, but they got better developed in Die Rise and Buried. I don't mind them, but the amount of people who are almost revolting that the O4 need to be back are being noticed by Treyarch.

[Eib Moz]

Well, the whole two ending paths confused me and threw me off for the N4 along with the storyline. :shock:

Richtofen's leads to their survival and him in power of the Aether. Maxis's leads to his final push to reach his daughter Samantha and possible death of the N4. :cry:

The final question remains; Do the N4 really die? For all we know since Die Rise, they can be brought back to life. :?:

What happens to Samantha's body on Moon which is possess by Richtofen? Is it a lifeless vessel or destroyed body of Richtofen? Why is Samantha in the Aether world since Maxis is heading there to retrieve her? Did the 04 died on Moon? Resulting their souls in the Aether.

(Also, it gives us a "what the heck" happens next for both Easter eggs. If Richtofen is part of the N4, where does he go next? I'll stop here. :mrgreen:

[TheRealMistyBriarton]

Exactly why I said Treyarch made a mistake, or it's too soon to replace our favorite heroes.

But that's where our opinion differs. I actually really liked the N4. They brought something fresh the O4 could not provide. Were they replacing the O4? Defiantly not. It just that this portion of the story was told through their eyes. I don't think it was a mistake to tell the story through a set of different eyes. A different perspective, a fresh view on things, and a chance to provide fresh side-stories that had nothing to do with Group 935 or the Vril-Ya. It was well needed to have a set of new characters to co-exist along with the O4, as they were getting repetitive and stale. Could the N4 have been better? Yes, and so could the maps to reflect them (Die Rise could've been made Broken Arrow's HQ, much needed backstory on Russ and Stuh would've been given, but nope). But they weren't as bad as most people made them out to be.

Oh no, I'm not saying they weren't bad characters, they did bore me in Tranzit, but they got better developed in Die Rise and Buried. I don't mind them, but the amount of people who are almost revolting that the O4 need to be back are being noticed by Treyarch.

I personally found them to be really crappy characters (besides my girl Misty), they were all under developed, boring, annoying to listen too and had no substance, they were just, bleh, bland and lifeless, Zombies hasen't been the same for me since the O4 were replaced by the N4/T4 (Not that I didn't like Tranzit, Die Rise and Buried, I do, but I DESPISE THE N4) I hate pretty much everything about the N4, so I am a happy camper with Origins.

[feedthemachine94]

Oh no, I'm not saying they weren't bad characters, they did bore me in Tranzit, but they got better developed in Die Rise and Buried. I don't mind them, but the amount of people who are almost revolting that the O4 need to be back are being noticed by Treyarch.

I personally found them to be really crappy characters (besides my girl Misty), they were all under developed, boring, annoying to listen too and had no substance, they were just, bleh, bland and lifeless, Zombies hasen't been the same for me since the O4 were replaced by the N4/T4 (Not that I didn't like Tranzit, Die Rise and Buried, I do, but I DESPISE THE N4) I hate pretty much everything about the N4, so I am a happy camper with Origins.

Marlton just can't shut up sometimes, it gets annoying. But I liked Stu, he had the best quotes I believe. "There's no I in team, but an I in PIECE OF SHIT!" "Scratch my back, and I'll fucking snap yours!"

Those lines cracked me up the moment I first heard them. Russman, eh he can be just boring but he's interesting. I think he was a much more sophisticated being before he was fired from Broken Arrow, and I'm curious to what he did there.

[Shooter]

If the N4 really are dead...

But seriously, I think we'll see the continuation of the N4 in Black Ops 3. That, or we'll see a whole new group of characters altogether. I just don't see the O4 returning as our main characters as much as it saddens me to say. There's only so much we can do wit the O4 before we need to lay their book to rest.

And personally, the N4 really grew on me over time. In TranZit I thought they were blah, but I started coming around during Die Rise. They all have their unique character traits that defined them individually, but what I really liked was the group dynamic between the four. The group reminded me of four random people that you might actually see during an apocalypse in a movie or on a show.

I think the problem is that everyone compares them to the O4, and in that case there's just no comparison. No matter what characters we'll get in Zombies, nothing will compare to the characters we knew when we first fell in love with Zombies. They hold a sentimental value more than anything else, and I think it's a bit hard for some people to move past that. The N4 were great in their own way, just like the O4 were. We've just got to stop comparing them.

[MysteryMachineX]

I think the problem is that everyone compares them to the O4, and in that case there's just no comparison. No matter what characters we'll get in Zombies, nothing will compare to the characters we knew when we first fell in love with Zombies. They hold a sentimental value more than anything else, and I think it's a bit hard for some people to move past that. The N4 were great in their own way, just like the O4 were. We've just got to stop comparing them.

+1 Well said.

[ThrowAmonkeyBomb]

I think the problem is that everyone compares them to the O4, and in that case there's just no comparison. No matter what characters we'll get in Zombies, nothing will compare to the characters we knew when we first fell in love with Zombies. They hold a sentimental value more than anything else, and I think it's a bit hard for some people to move past that. The N4 were great in their own way, just like the O4 were. We've just got to stop comparing them.

+1 Well said.

Agreed.Very well said. :D