Origins' Easter Egg Ending Discussion

[XLORDXSITHX]

all i gotta say is

"STANDALONE"!!!

Yeh, i said that.

Proof you say?

Notic the few small Tweak's in map development and also the buildables/parts? From my knowlage of game creation, develports always TEST things publicly to see how people react to them. So if treyarch gets a postive reaction to all the "NEW" things introduced in BO2, then we will get a standalone.

To those that think treyarch wont make a standalone because their is not demand for it. Well im sorry but you are wrong. All zombies fans will buy this game. Other fan's of other zombie games MIGHT buy this game depending on what they do "layout" wise in the nexgen. With all the new developments in BO2(custom games, leaderboards, Indepth EE's, Multi map EE's, buildables, rideables, and cliffhangers) how can you not see that they where planning this standalone along side of all the BO2 Map pack release's?

Do most of you know that BO2 began development officaly as soon as BO1 was released to the public? So this standalone has already been in development for a year now. Give it another year to 18 months and we will see an AD for it.

Also if non of that convinces you, my buddie Domino Told Me in a way of saying without saying, COD: Zombies (he works in the art department, and part time server maintence)

I mean sersouly? Black ops 3? comeon........

and yes i know i suck at spelling and grammer, get over it.

Dont bother quoting my thread or rebuttling it. I trust his word, as he has not been wrong yet. Also i realy dont care to argue, if it come out. Cool. If it dont, jokes on me.

See ya in 2 years :D

[Stop Mocking Me0]

Saddly in the world we live in, most fans of cod are only interested in the repetitive multiplayer mode... As much as WE would like to see a full zombies installment, it likely will not happen...

[Charles871987]

Ok, last try... So did anyone actually see a Misty doll? Some are saying they have but I need visual aid here, or is Samantha suppose to represent Misty?

[Critikal_Damage]

On last try... So did anyone actually see A misty doll, some are saying they have but I need visual aid here, or is sam suppose to represent misty?

No there was no Misty doll but there was one of Sthulingher Russman and Marlton

[AndrewA17]

I think I understand the meaning of this ending. Yes Origins is a game, and it is played by Samantha and Eddie. I think this because the map seems to imaginative, not realistic at all. The robots and dr. maxis having his brain chopped out and turned into a robot? I definatly think this is a game that Samantha and eddie are playing, thats why we see all the symbolic stuff in samantha's room. BUT at the end we here the alarms and maxis calling samantha downstairs and they talk about wishing it were real and that her dad, maxis, has a plan. I think this is taking place during WW2, the begging of when zombies takes place,I think this because of the alarms. Then her dad could have had the plan that made there game a reality and maxis successfully created the zombies!Then as we know Samantha Actually ended up controling them! and eddie could have grown up with samantha and he is edward, maybe. so now we come to what we have know about zombies previously and its a fight between samantha and edward for control of the zombies. so yes this is the origins and after their "game" maxis made it a reality. This is just my Thought.

[Charles871987]

I think I understand the meaning of this ending. Yes Origins is a game, and it is played by Samantha and Eddie. I think this because the map seems to imaginative, not realistic at all. The robots and dr. maxis having his brain chopped out and turned into a robot? I definatly think this is a game that Samantha and eddie are playing, thats why we see all the symbolic stuff in samantha's room. BUT at the end we here the alarms and maxis calling samantha downstairs and they talk about wishing it were real and that her dad, maxis, has a plan. I think this is taking place during WW2, the begging of when zombies takes place,I think this because of the alarms. Then her dad could have had the plan that made there game a reality and maxis successfully created the zombies!Then as we know Samantha Actually ended up controling them! and eddie could have grown up with samantha and he is edward, maybe. so now we come to what we have know about zombies previously and its a fight between samantha and edward for control of the zombies. so yes this is the origins and after their "game" maxis made it a reality. This is just my Thought.

Sure, but if this started within a five year or less period of the "incident" at Der reise, then explain how Eddie aged 25+ years, then after that explain how their dolls came to life, and lastly how they lost their memories because they obviously knew about every action we the players would be taking.

The only explanation I personally see that would continue the zombies storyline would be that every map we've played was all a game and that the end cutscene tells us that there's a chance we will be experiencing the real thing for the next installment. To me it's either that or it's like they said "This is one possible view on how zombies all started" meaning that origins is just a "for fun" type of thing.

I would be fine with either two of those, but honestly I feel there's just too much unexplained things to try and rationalize this whole story. Would it be possible to explain it and be relatively believable? Sure, and I'd be cool with that. I just see it the other way is all.

[InfestLithium]

I agree with Charles. The quote by Vaughn was that it is a perspective from Samantha. This may very well mean that Origins is what she imagined (although the framework of the audio logs, ciphers, and backstory are consistent). At the same time, however, the events of later maps become a reality some time after the cutscene. Consider it being everything that she toyed actually does happen later down the road.

MMX crafted a beautiful explanation behind Samantha's control and actual action before control here. This is a great theory on the subject at hand and it's hard not to create a reason without connecting to this in some way.

[PaulOfTheDead]

If the bedroom scene was set during WW2 then Treyarch would at least have had it look like it was set there, rather than late 20th century. There is no way kids would have pajamas like that in the 40s, or decorate their rooms in that way, and most obviously have the sort of detailed plastic-moulded action figures you see them playing with.

And if Origins is the only map that is part of their game, why would Sam and Eddie have action figures of zombies and characters (the bus etc) that don't appear in Origins?

[Stop Mocking Me0]

If the bedroom scene was set during WW2 then Treyarch would at least have had it look like it was set there, rather than late 20th century. There is no way kids would have pajamas like that in the 40s, or decorate their rooms in that way, and most obviously have the sort of detailed plastic-moulded action figures you see them playing with.

And if Origins is the only map that is part of their game, why would Sam and Eddie have action figures of zombies and characters (the bus etc) that don't appear in Origins?

Because theyre both demonic anouncer's who have control over the entire universe, not just this one period of time...

[BlackOpsTiger]

I'm not sure if anyone had brought this up yet, but in the cutscene it looks like Samantha is filming this cutscene on a handheld camera, notice how she puts it down. This kind of device did not exist until near modern times...

I don't think we've seen the last of these "handheld camera" custscenes. I think they may just be the backbone to the next series of maps... or storyline in a game... but one can only dream.

[Jonnyo567]

I'm not sure if anyone had brought this up yet, but in the cutscene it looks like Samantha is filming this cutscene on a handheld camera, notice how she puts it down. This kind of device did not exist until near modern times...

I don't think we've seen the last of these "handheld camera" custscenes. I think they may just be the backbone to the next series of maps... or storyline in a game... but one can only dream.

I was thinking that we were seeing out of the eyes of another doll. I don't think anyone can doubt zombies won't be back, it's pretty much the selling point of about 80% of the DLC, but how it will expand now beyond what we've seen is very interesting. Can't wait for Treyarch's next game.

[RdJokr]

I'm not sure if anyone had brought this up yet, but in the cutscene it looks like Samantha is filming this cutscene on a handheld camera, notice how she puts it down. This kind of device did not exist until near modern times...

I don't think we've seen the last of these "handheld camera" custscenes. I think they may just be the backbone to the next series of maps... or storyline in a game... but one can only dream.

She was holding an action figure, most likely Dempsey. I mean, why would she use a camera to knock over the zombie figures? Doesn't make sense.

[GameChanger]

I'm probably dead wrong as many other brilliant people here have come up with better and more sound theories with actual proof, but I may as well give it a shot.

Guys, open your peepers! Don't take it as face value, look at the underlying themes of it. Isn't something... different? Maxis is the one who goes insane instead of our Ricky! The characters are... calm. Specifically speaking, Takeo is more fierce than honorable. There's so many things in Origins that contradicts the other maps, it's like someone just made it up. It somewhat follows the REAL story, but it's like a fanfiction of sorts. The question is though, who and why would they write this? The adults that know about this stuff and the dangers Element 115 presents wouldn't write out a story for fun. As described in the Ending, it's actually the work of kid(s). A child, and her imagination. What if this is all Samantha's young mind interpreting ultimate power? It's like a game where she makes the rules, but Eddie wants to play too. He's going (or maybe he already has his turn?) to get his turn soon, whether she likes it or not. Even though SaMaxis's vernacular is well beyond her years, her mind still needs to find a way to her to handle omnipotence. This is the way. While real events play out, Sam plays a make believe game where she can play out her fantasies of the O4 saving her instead of overthrowing her.

My second and prominently shorter theory is that in order for Maxis to reach his daughter, he has to go through timelines to reach Agartha. The problem with this theory is that we have no idea why she is in Agartha when back in Black Ops 1 she was fighting the Zombies with O3. What happens to her in this timeline that requires Maxis to go to alternate-reality WW1 to save her?

Feel free to criticize this. It's always good to be corrected and possibly even spark a discussion.

[Stop Mocking Me0]

I'm probably dead wrong as many other brilliant people here have come up with better and more sound theories with actual proof, but I may as well give it a shot.

Guys, open your peepers! Don't take it as face value, look at the underlying themes of it. Isn't something... different? Maxis is the one who goes insane instead of our Ricky! The characters are... calm. Specifically speaking, Takeo is more fierce than honorable. There's so many things in Origins that contradicts the other maps, it's like someone just made it up. It somewhat follows the REAL story, but it's like a fanfiction of sorts. The question is though, who and why would they write this? The adults that know about this stuff and the dangers Element 115 presents wouldn't write out a story for fun. As described in the Ending, it's actually the work of kid(s). A child, and her imagination. What if this is all Samantha's young mind interpreting ultimate power? It's like a game where she makes the rules, but Eddie wants to play too. He's going (or maybe he already has his turn?) to get his turn soon, whether she likes it or not. Even though SaMaxis's vernacular is well beyond her years, her mind still needs to find a way to her to handle omnipotence. This is the way. While real events play out, Sam plays a make believe game where she can play out her fantasies of the O4 saving her instead of overthrowing her.

My second and prominently shorter theory is that in order for Maxis to reach his daughter, he has to go through timelines to reach Agartha. The problem with this theory is that we have no idea why she is in Agartha when back in Black Ops 1 she was fighting the Zombies with O3. What happens to her in this timeline that requires Maxis to go to alternate-reality WW1 to save her?

Feel free to criticize this. It's always good to be corrected and possibly even spark a discussion.

No no, this is right, everything you've said so far is the generally accepted theory at this point:

That THIS is a world where everyone was born early, maxis became insane, Samantha was never born and thus was "created" when the leaks in the universe via 115 bound part of her soul to this world. The O4 never received their madnesses from the 115 treatment or the MPD, and this ENTIRE universe is just a plaything of sam's, while richtofen is controlling the REAL universe. Basically the entire event of origins has no point other then highlighting how 115 can cross dimensions and how the O4 would be if they weren't driven to their social disorders...

There are two outcomes to this:

1: Origins has zero point at all storyline-wise

2: We're beginning a whole new storyline which is MORE dreadful IMO,

Or

3: A little of both: This universe and the "real" universe will link together and combine in some way... I have no idea HOW or WHY but... Meh...

I actually would be OK with this idea of linking worlds... Normally I would oppose but it would do MANY things to the storyline:

Could bring the O4 back into the main story, the say O4 Mark 2, in the future.

It could also bring into play a duel-diminsion thing where half the map is in "world Original" and the other in "world 2".

EVERYTHING in the "World 1" could be in some way, in the "world 2" which would explain the return to nact, and verruct in BO1... This may also mean key elements like the towers, the button, and the MPD could exist in this new world as well....

We should be able to tell which world we're in by the perk machines and the box... so far there are 3 worlds...

1: The normal world: Crate box, Normal perks

2: The second world: Tomb box, rock pack-a-punch

3: The hell world: Chest box, flashy-interdimintionated-perks

[PaulOfTheDead]

I am still utterly blown away by the way they ended this - and spending too much time thinking about what it might mean for the "next Zombies" when I really should be doing more important stuff...lol

[Stop Mocking Me0]

I am still utterly blown away by the way they ended this - and spending too much time thinking about what it might mean for the "next Zombies" when I really should be doing more important stuff...lol

Really? The blown away part about this, not the more important stuff, I've been subject to that too, but this ending was a huge downer for me and honestly has very little reason as to why they did it too... Mater of opinion i guess....

[PaulOfTheDead]

Did anyone here play Monkey Island 2 back in the day?

Without wanting to spoil one of the greatest adventure games of all time for anyone who hasn't (everyone should!) played it - there is a very similar ending. It's actually even greater and seems more shocking that Origin's ending - but that's maybe because I was just a kid when I saw it, and it's been done before, now.

Everyone was outraged at the time.There were two more sequels, and the original designer (Ron Gilbert) wasn't involved with them, so the new writers "ret-conned" the story so that the "It's all a game" ending from two was basically ignored.

But now, like 20 years later - everyone acknowledges that the MI2 ending is one of the most memorable and clever pieces of video game storytelling of all time - and not many people like the sequels that came after - they are mostly ignored in "All time top adventure game" lists and the like (The Curse of Monkey Island and Escape from Monkey Island).

The fact is, it doesn't matter if it's "All a game" or not - we know it's a made-up story so why are you concerned if it's a story made up by a game designer at Treyarch, or a story made up by a little girl, who is made up by a game designer at Treyarch?

This ending opens up so many possibilities, multiverses of different worlds where our games become reality - the next map could be set on a planet on the other side of the universe where we battle flying elephants - literally anything - because it can all fit into a story made up between two bright, imaginative children.

Think about the link from Der Reise to Kino -where everyone thought that the Zombies story was at it's peak - what's the actual storyline there? "They overload the teleporter using the Wonderwaffe and that somehow turns it into a time machine". It's not exactly Dickens, is it?

The Zombies storyline has always been ridiculous, over-the-top, completely deranged - that's why it's been so much fun! They just cram as much ridiculous stuff as they can into each map - zombies, aliens, nazis, time travel, ancient temples, conspiracy theories, space-age weapons - and then come up with something dumb to link it together with.

This ending gives us an explanation for the biggest question of all - WHY IS IT SO DUMB? Most writers (books, films, tv, comics - whatever) would never dare try and provide an explanation for that question.

Sorry if this feels like a rant, I am just trying to explain why I feel quite passionately that this is a fantastic ending! I hope I got some of that across.

[Stop Mocking Me0]

Do not get me STARTED on drawn to life... Damn that game... Creeped me the hell out then killed everyone... It was a CHILD'S game for Pete sakes....

[killallzombies]

So we can discuss how bad the ending was now? Good. Hopefully the ending was just a metaphor for how Sam controls the zombies, otherwise I'm pretty sure this will sit well with no one.

99.999% of the time I agree with you ZotD, but this time, I'm going to have to disagree.

If this is our ending to the zombies storyline (which I don't think it is)Then I'm pretty content with it just being two kids playing a game. It explains why some things in the storyline don't make sense.

But I do hope it's not the end

[GameChanger]

I saw a fantastic theory on reddit.com that is NOT ME, but /u/thewandering way. Here is the link for it. The transcript goes like this:

I'm not sure if anyone else put forward this theory yet, but what if Origins is non-canon and the ending cinematic isn't Richtofen and Samantha, but proxies for the Campaign team and the Zombies team. Please correct me anywhere my logic is wrong.

First I want to bring your attention to the lines from the end cinematic.

Eddie: You're getting everything wrong. I told you before, their eyes should be blue!

Samantha: It's my turn, Eddie. I can do whatever I want.

I realized that of the maps for BO2, Tranzit, Nuketown, Die Rise, Mov of the Dead, Buried and Origins, can be seen as those maps with zombies with blue eyes and those without.

Maps w/Blue eyes are Tranzit, Nuketown, Die Rise and Buried, all maps which were created by the Zombies development team. MotD and Origins were done by the Campaign team. Interestingly enough, you can also see game play elements which separate the maps created by the two teams. Both maps created by the Campaign team have bosses, a large assortment of new and varied Wunderweapons, custom mystery boxes, and jump scares.

If you take this into consideration, than the conversation between Eddie and Sam makes a lot more sense and one could see why the scene exists. It’s not canon, but a means of looking back over the maps in BO2 and each teams feelings.

Eddie: But... You don't even know how to play properly! Girls don't know enough about zombies. Is basically the Zombies team stating how Origins story (by the Campaign team) makes no sense in the overarching story of the Zombies mythos. Note: MotD also makes no sense in the overarching story either as it is very much a stand alone story.

Eddie: I didn't even get my turn... The Zombie team was probably supposed to have full run of the BO2 zombies map, but somewhere in pre-production it was probably decided to split some of the work between the zombies team and campaign team. This could be the Zombies team lamenting how they weren't given a full “turn” at running zombies development.

Samantha: Tomorrow, Eddie. You get to make the rules. I promise. Basically the campaign team saying next time it’s all yours.

As for Maxis’ lines during the end, I have a feeling this is a huge teaser. If my theory of Eddie and Sam being proxies for the teams is correct, than Maxis would represent a power over them, most likely Activision. If this is taken into consideration, then things get exciting. Eddie states he wishes the “heroes in our stories were real” and Sam responds “…we will make everything okay…My dad has a plan.” This could be interpreted in that the next BO will be on next gen and Activision has plans for BO.

Awhile ago Activision showed off a new game engine. Despite being the first next-gen CoD game, Ghosts does not seem to be running on said engine mainly because it has to be cross generational (both 360 and One/PS3 and PS4). My guess is that the next BO or possibly a stand alone Zombies game will be running on the new game engine and be the first true next-gen CoD.

TL:DR-Origin's ending isn't Richtofen and Samantha but a very elaborate metaphor for the Zombies team and Campaign team.

ONCE AGAIN, NOT ME, check the top for proper source.

[Stop Mocking Me0]

Oh I love it!

Let's just hope activation's plan isn't as "grand" as black ops 2... SUCH a let-down...

[InfestLithium]

Small problem: the Zombies team makes every map. There is no indication from anyone whether one team made more of the map than the other. People have forgotten that while the Campaign team does give their input and help into a few of these maps, they don't assume control over it. That's the very reason why people are jumping around nowadays saying "oh all the good maps were done by the Campaign team and all the sucky N4 ones by the Zombies team".

It's fallacious and not presentable. Every map is done by the Zombies team regardless who put more effort into what.

[GameChanger]

Small problem: the Zombies team makes every map. There is no indication from anyone whether one team made more of the map than the other.

Great point of course. Obviously, Campaign aren't going to twiddle their thumbs on the off-season before the next game production begins. While I do agree that Zombies dev team has a large influence on EACH map, I won't deny the idea members of the C team came up with some large-scale gameplay ideas, some of them maybe being elements the fans are really liking (Actual "objectives", game ending EE etc.)

[Stop Mocking Me0]

The point across, two different sets of maps are here... And AmeriSAM could be making these type-B maps while Eddy controls the real world's aether... Perhaps as a tactic to keeping inside the aether, he lets her think she's in charge for a while...

This would also explain the demonic announcer in MOTD!

[Ooka]

First of all forgive me if I'm way off, I'm by no means an expert on the zombie storyline.

The Legend of Zelda storyline really comes to mind when I think about zombies due to one thing. In OoT, the storyline got split into two. When Link traveled back to warn Zelda of what would happen, it became it's own sort of dimension, while the one that Zelda remained in as an adult stayed intact.

Maybe something like that happened here, and we're actually experiencing two timelines. The one that's being referred to as imagination, and the other that runs through a majority of the maps. Perhaps when you teleport at the end of the Origins EE, that's when it actually splits, or maybe even during Der Riese.

Again just an idea, I'd love to figure out what's actually going on. I like to think Treyarch wouldn't leave us with something as simple as "It's all just two kids playing with dolls".

I also really like the theory about it being both sides of the development team, very interesting. ^.^