The Continuation of Zombies

[MaxisIsAlive]

So this whole thing happened in her head? I got the weirdest feeling treyarch has heard of "the rugrats theory"

[ETEl2NAL407]

I think Eternal is on the money. I think they're living with no electricity and sirens outside their door because they live in an actual zombie apocalypse. I dislike how Treyarch ended their story but all things have to end I suppose. At least now Treyarch can possibly start a new story about zombies. With the next gen consoles coming out soon, they can possibly up the amount of the shit they can do and possibly make a better story and game than ever.

Exactly!

All this talk about time-travel and parralel realities/universes doesn't matter! It was all in her head and then in her friend Eddie's head.

CotD and MotD were probably movies her Father was watching (A George Romero flick on day 1, mobster Alcatraz escape film on day 2) that the kids just kinda incorporated into their games. I think the kids were having a sleep-over and this was a weekend.

The sirens and the demand from Father to come to basement is the most intriguing thing because it sets the stage for more to come.

Now that the slate is clean because everything has been explained, Treyarch can write a story that will make sense because they can give it direction from the beginning. This ending is awesome!

[Caddyman]

I agree 100% with Eternal, and to expand with my thoughts.

They are living AT NTZ. That bedroom is in one of the 2 houses at Nuketown. The sirens are the same (I think) as you hear when a perk drops.

They are living in an infestation.

One could also think that maybe, just maybe, the O4 figures are there and being played with cause they were back in the day real life action heroes and people (like Mattel for instance) made action figures of them, and the N4 are the modern day heroes and a company made figures out of them.

So many years before this scene takes place the O4 lead a seige on zombies in real life* and are recognized and glorified for it, in the news, badges of honor, they are heroes etc and Action figures are made.

Later after that, closer to when the scene occurs the N4 do the same and the same happens to them.

*The O4 IRL may not have had the mystery box, perks, powerups, etc. They may have just survived with standard loadouts and skills, SAM and EDDIE are where all the magic happens, in their "game", that we, the gamers, played.

[LJx19]

l

.

1. The Maxis Drone is a huge red flag concerning this map's validity. Not only is Maxis' brain in a drone, which already makes me question what is happening, but this situation entirely conflicts with what is occurring throughout World at War and Black Ops. We know Maxis had a body. How could he beckon Samantha out of the MPD on Moon and be shot? How could he be locked into a teleporter with his daughter? Now I understand you're saying that these are both possible, but I'd say they are highly unlikely that she'd be emotionally attached to a little robot with just a voice. But there are more things.

2. Maxis claims that Samantha is not his daughter. This is just entirely far'fetched. We know that Samantha is Maxis' daughter. In Moon, Maxis beckons her out of the MPD and says "Your mother and I love you" and such. She is a part of their family. They are family. This doesn't add up at all.

3. Samantha is in Agartha...in 1918. This doesn't make sense at all. She isn't even born at this point. This doesn't correlate with anything in the maps we've had before.

So with just three of many inconsistencies, I'd say that Origins is the map that is being made up by Samantha in her room in the ending cut scene. Origins itself does not pertain to the true zombies storyline. The "Origins", as the devs want us to search for, are actually found in that ending cut scene as Maxis calls Samantha down to the basement. "My dad says he has a plan."

But we're getting ahead of ourselves. Let's look at the cutscene and notice key elements as to why these two children have not made up the rest of the zombies storyline.

"I told you before, their eyes should be blue."

The character, Eddie as we'd find out, believe the zombies eyes should be blue. Seems to remind us of Richtofen, correct? And the name would suggest relation or some link between the two. And as I stated, I could argue both ways at this point, so that could be what was intended, but for the sake of this argument, I'd state that Eddie is believing the eyes should be blue. But that also means that they aren't blue. And we know the eyes aren't blue in Origins. The real question is have they been blue before? Or better yet, has Eddie had a turn?

Well if the tally marks on the side of the bed are to indicate anything odds are Eddie has had quite a few turns (if blue eyes are his thing that means all the maps of the n4).

"It's my turn Eddie. I can do whatever I want."

Samantha is in control of the game. She gets to decide what happens within the zombie world of Origins. This kind of reminds me of Tiny Tina's Assault on Dragon Keep. She'd be telling her story of what was happening, then randomly change her mind and the world around you would adjust to her desires.

"But...you don't even know how to play properly! Girls don't know enough about zombies."

Key quote. Highlight, Bold, Italicize, 72 pt font size. This is huge. Girls don't know enough about zombies. If they had played many games before this, as some would suggest, wouldn't she know a good bit about zombies? She's not new to this. Yet he seems to believe she is new...like this is her first time playing with zombies. Very important quote here. If she had been doing this for every map, she'd know about zombies fairly well and her friend Eddie wouldn't be questioning her.

This now is assuming a lot based on a single quote so i'll go the complete opposite way. Saying sam should have a pretty good idea of what playing zombies is or should be like is a hell of a longshot, because and we should know, sam knows as much about zombies related stuff as the giant robots with no brain. Look back from the very beginnings, its always been richtofen whos had all the answers and knew exactly what to do. He knew all about the golden rod/focusing stones/vril generators/ 115/ etc etc and so on. But I'm going off track here I believe. Anyway she could be completely new to zombies and she only won 20 games because she's a little girl and little girls are always my house my rules, and him being the older kid is like *sigh* whatever you win this round.

-sirens-

"It began long ago...on the battlefields of The Great War."

I pull this quote because it tells us exactly when those sirens are going off in the Ending Cut scene. Before World War II, everyone referred to World War I as "The Great War." No one called it WWI because...there was no reason to. There was not a second world war to compare it to. This tell us that WWII is the war that is occurring during the ending cut scene. That puts us right in prime position for this to be the beginning of our story. Right at the beginning of World War II.

"Put the toys away children. Make sure the windows are locked before you head down to the basement."

Real life calls. Dr. Maxis calls the children down to the basement to protect themselves from bombs dropping in the area. The windows must be locked because you don't want someone breaking into your home while you are trying to remain safe in the basement.

"We better do what your dad says."

And this quote gives more confirmation of Origins being fake and the ending cut scene being the real "Origins." Eddie tells Samantha that Maxis is her dad. This flows with what we know to be fact from World at War and Black Ops.

"But I didn't even get my turn."

This is a HUGELY important quote. Why? Because Eddie never got a turn! Richtofen has been in control in many maps, but Eddie is saying he never got a turn to be in control. This means that it doesn't align with them making up those maps. Eddie was never in control.

Gonna interject again. For all we know (and as their room, how its decorated, the scoreboard, all the toys we see, eddie saying he didnt even get his turn could just mean that *tonight* he didnt get his turn but most previous nights he did. And that means yes im assuming this one night and one sided story is just that, tonights story. Other nights eddie tells the story and we get our tranzit 4, or even the moon and shangri la.

"My dad says he has a plan."

What plan does Maxis have? Could this be the plan of super soldiers, aka zombies, to help lead the Germans to a successful victory over the Allied Forces? Could this plan that Samantha speaks of be the beginning of our zombies storyline that we know?

It couldn't be the beginnng of our storyline. Thats physically impossible. BUT it could be the beginning of A zombie storyline. Reason being not ours is because our storyline does take place about WW2 and already Sam seems to be older than the 8 yr old girl trapped in the aether. Not to mention there is absolutely no evidence for richtofen ever having a child much less getting a woman to bear one for him, so with that I'll say Eddie is richtofen. (hey absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence works both ways) Then it adds another layer of impossibility to our storyline as they're quite close in age range.

A few other things I want to point out. Eddie looks very similar to Sloth from Buried. This striking resemblance could be of importance. Remember that the zombies never attack Sloth. What if Eddie was Richtofen's son? A father is likely to pass his name to his son. And Richtofen and Maxis were coworkers, which means their families probably knew each other. Eddie is far too young to be the older Richtofen, especially since Maxis is shown as being real in the cut scene. I would say Eddie is Richtofen's son. Some will argue that Richtofen has no son, but I'd say that there is no proof that he does not have a son.

Now let's just assume that Eddie is his son. Imagine tests being done on him at Group 935. He becomes this super solider, but loses his mental capabilities. He can only respond to certain stimuli. To keep him in safe keeping, they bring him down to where Buried is. Richtofen won't let zombies attack Sloth because it's his son. Would you let zombies attack your child if you were in control of them? I'd think not.

I stated it at the beginning and I want to state it again. I could go through this cut scene and argue the end of zombies just as solidly if I desired (and I may at a later date), but I guess, as Ehjookated has told me, I joined him in the "Denial" phase and don't want to accept an end. I'm looking for a way out, and I sure hope I've found it. But I don't know.

Let me know what you think of all this. Do I have some solid points? Weak points? Agree? Disagree? Give me your thoughts and opinions.

Thanks for reading!

And sloth being richtofens son who would be the Eddie Sam is referring too...? Come on man now your just in2deep.

My thoughts on the matter are pretty much settled that the storyline so far has been given the shaft. But it actually does a pretty clean job of setting us up for a possible fourth installment of zombies, hopefully this time in the real world. Even though the ending was half assed and piss offish, it was one of the cleanest ways they could have broken us from this storyline and start a potential second.

[LJx19]

The one thing that bothers me is that in no way shape or form could two little kids in 1917 could think of the Cia/cdc. No way could they think of the pentagon. No way could they think of space travel. Skyscrapers in die rise wouldn't have been thought of. Nome of the above could be thought of in the 1918 period that we think they are in. So they could possibly be in the future. No point in the cutscene is their a reference to time besides the use of a gramophone and an old clock. They could be way into the future after a couple generations have passed and these could be rictofens and maxis kids that are just given the same names.

Plus how would these little kids think up so many complex things like the mpd/ avocado/thundergun and other wonderweapons/ancient riddles/Agatha/the moon/and all these other things.

Plus why would Eddie let Sam make his character a complete psychopath. And why would richtofen let her.

Well by those standards there's no way h.g.wells could have thought up and wrote war of the worlds is there? There's no way Stephen king could have wrote all the horror fantasies he did either huh?

These 2 kids look about 11 and 13 and kids that age normally have a pretty overactive imagination. Cia, CDC, the pentagon? Those things all existed if we're going with fated timeline where its the beginning of WW2.

[Charles871987]

Ljx19- everything you said, QFT

[Charles871987]

Ljx19- everything you said, QFT

Guys just need to realize there's no logical explanation that the story as we know it ACTUALLY happened, the closest we will get is that it was either based off events in the past or setting us up for a new "real" adventure.

Or simply over.

Edit: weird don't remember quoting myself lol

[ETEl2NAL407]

Guys just need to realize there's no logical explanation that the story as we know it ACTUALLY happened, the closest we will get is that it was either based off events in the past or setting us up for a new "real" adventure.

Or simply over.

This.

Plus...

Eddie is not Richtofen. Eddie is a friend of Samantha's and whereas Samantha likes to be the "God" of her story and take a narrative role, Eddie imagines himself as the Richtofen doll/character, so he puts himself in control during his turn (BO:2), and "kills" Samantha by putting her into the MDT.

At least she's a good sport and goes with it...Lol.

It really makes a lot of sense now because the maps/games that Samantha has seem to have her take a motherly role and try to help the characters survive, whereas when Eddie controls the game, there's an egotistical power hungry role and Eddie wants to be one of the characters so he can live vicariously through this action hero.

Samantha babies the O4, Eddie orders the N4 to do his bidding. I think the Maxis in BO:2 that interacts with our N4 is just Samantha trying to play along with Eddie's game, after all, if there's a power struggle there has to be conflict.

[Charles871987]

^ exactly, I think that's the first time I've seen someone say that Eddie is not Richtofen BUT IN SOME FORM IS RICHTOFEN Lol, that the action figure is simply an extension of who he thinks would be fun to play as.

[ETEl2NAL407]

You know, I think this makes so much sense to me because I had a sister growing up close to my age and we used to do the exact same things.

We'd play with figurines and create stories with them. The dialogue between our characters was just improvised by us. We had a hodgepodge of characters, too. GI Joes, Barbies, TMNT, Jurassic Park, Transformers, etc..

To make it seem more realistic, we'd make the dinosaurs pets, the TMNT's aliens, and the Transformers mech warriors. All the GI Joes and Barbies were the humans. It's probably lost on the younger audience here because I doubt playing with figurines is as common for kids to do as it was when I was growing up (during the 80's), but judging by the devs ages, I'm sure they probably did.

[Caddyman]

I played a lot of gi joes growing up, all day.

fwiw i still think this is set at nuketown, and the figures are there because at one point in time the heroes were real and made into dolls.

what messes me up is rick saying i wish our heroes were real, maybe he meant the dolls were the real life people though...

[Charles871987]

You know, I think this makes so much sense to me because I had a sister growing up close to my age and we used to do the exact same things.

We'd play with figurines and create stories with them. The dialogue between our characters was just improvised by us. We had a hodgepodge of characters, too. GI Joes, Barbies, TMNT, Jurassic Park, Transformers, etc..

To make it seem more realistic, we'd make the dinosaurs pets, the TMNT's aliens, and the Transformers mech warriors. All the GI Joes and Barbies were the humans. It's probably lost on the younger audience here because I doubt playing with figurines is as common for kids to do as it was when I was growing up (during the 80's), but judging by the devs ages, I'm sure they probably did.

Completelty agree lol. Honestly we are just going to have to realize that the zombie community is now split into two factions, 1 are the believers that somehow the story is still 100% real and can be fixed by certain hidden truths and it can be worked out, and 2 those like us that realize this all could have been a game and that it could go either way in terms of if it will continue or end, and if it does continue will it do so wirh our make believe heroes or new heroes?

I think we all should just be calm when realizing someone else has a theory that we may not agree with and understand we're all just trying to work this out for ourselves and come to a conclusion that makes us satisfied, there's nothing wrong with that. As much as I can applaud treyarchs decision to go this way, I do wish they would maybe make a statement on how they felt the ending should be interpreted since this particular storyline was already screwed from the start really and I really don't want to be in a debate for another year lol.

[Dub Zee]

origins Intro - Dr Edward Richtofen (and Dr ludvig Maxis)

Origins outro - Edward (Refered to by Samantha)

Der Riese - Eddy is a Liar - Teddy is a Liar. Edward (Refered to by Maxis in the Radio) Ed wants your Head! (Richtofen quote)

Moon - Uncle Edward (Samantha quote) Eddie im going to kill you (Samantha's quote while in Richtofens body) Next time, Uncle Edward will give you stronger legs! Edward! Give them stronger legs! (Samantha's quote)

"Drink it Eddy! You liar! (Samantha qoute)

These are just a few mentions of Edward, eddy, Edward and all directed at Richtofen.

Pretty obvious to me

[Charles871987]

I played a lot of gi joes growing up, all day.

fwiw i still think this is set at nuketown, and the figures are there because at one point in time the heroes were real and made into dolls.

what messes me up is rick saying i wish our heroes were real, maybe he meant the dolls were the real life people though...

Ya never know, I see your point on your belief; and Eddie could have meant that they were "the real deal" so it's all plausible, and as I said we all just have to stay calm and there's gonna be times where we don't agree or slightly agree or just think is ludacris, such as I feel with the theories some have that after the cutscene ends they go down to the basement and the teleporter warps them and it's all history from there lol. Seeing as how the paraphanelia in the room suggests knowledge of everything already I just can't get behind this one even just a little bit lol.

[Charles871987]

origins Intro - Dr Edward Richtofen (and Dr ludvig Maxis)

Origins outro - Edward (Refered to by Samantha)

Der Riese - Eddy is a Liar - Teddy is a Liar. Edward (Refered to by Maxis in the Radio) Ed wants your Head! (Richtofen quote)

Moon - Uncle Edward (Samantha quote) Eddie im going to kill you (Samantha's quote while in Richtofens body) Next time, Uncle Edward will give you stronger legs! Edward! Give them stronger legs! (Samantha's quote)

"Drink it Eddy! You liar! (Samantha qoute)

These are just a few mentions of Edward, eddy, Edward and all directed at Richtofen.

Pretty obvious to me

What's pretty obvious to you? That Eddie represents Richtofen or you believe Eddie IS Richtofen, meaning he was directly involved in the events of this entire series? If its the first one then of course, I don't think many are denying there's an obvious connection. If its the second one well that's debateable, seeing as how there would have to be more time fluxes and certain mind wipes to accomadate that Eddie is the actual person that was directly physically involved in all of these events.

Seeing as how the room is littered with information that hasn't come to pass yet, it's seeming more likely that the children had already invested some time in putting these stories together and it seems unlikely that Richtofen reverts in age to play a simple doll game with Sam basically reminiscing of their adventures together or that he forgets it all in the later maps.

[ETEl2NAL407]

origins Intro - Dr Edward Richtofen (and Dr ludvig Maxis)

Origins outro - Edward (Refered to by Samantha)

Der Riese - Eddy is a Liar - Teddy is a Liar. Edward (Refered to by Maxis in the Radio) Ed wants your Head! (Richtofen quote)

Moon - Uncle Edward (Samantha quote) Eddie im going to kill you (Samantha's quote while in Richtofens body) Next time, Uncle Edward will give you stronger legs! Edward! Give them stronger legs! (Samantha's quote)

"Drink it Eddy! You liar! (Samantha qoute)

These are just a few mentions of Edward, eddy, Edward and all directed at Richtofen.

Pretty obvious to me

Obvious, sure. That when Eddie played his make-believe game with Samantha, he was in control of the story and he made her get trapped (she's probably a little upset that he did this to her in the story), then he trapped himself (as a way to apologize for what he did to her character). So, she's playing along with his story that has him seeking power and she's throwing in friendly conflict so he actually has to be creative to figure out how he can make Richtofen gain the power he's seeking.

It's a fun cat and mouse game they're playing with each other.

"I'm in control of the story and I am going to kill you off, Sam! so Richtofen gets to control the world! Muahaha!!!"

"Ok, but now that I'm trapped here, I actually have control and I can transcend space and time!"

"Uh oh...well I better trap myself in there too and take over your body!"

Back and forth...It's an example of kids doing the whole, "I'm rubber you're glue, everything bounces off me and sticks to you!"

[Charles871987]

The whole pick a side for the strongest power in Black ops 2 eggs screams child behaviors when I think about lol maybe I'm just reaching though, idk

[Dub Zee]

origins Intro - Dr Edward Richtofen (and Dr ludvig Maxis)

Origins outro - Edward (Refered to by Samantha)

Der Riese - Eddy is a Liar - Teddy is a Liar. Edward (Refered to by Maxis in the Radio) Ed wants your Head! (Richtofen quote)

Moon - Uncle Edward (Samantha quote) Eddie im going to kill you (Samantha's quote while in Richtofens body) Next time, Uncle Edward will give you stronger legs! Edward! Give them stronger legs! (Samantha's quote)

"Drink it Eddy! You liar! (Samantha qoute)

These are just a few mentions of Edward, eddy, Edward and all directed at Richtofen.

Pretty obvious to me

What's pretty obvious to you? That Eddie represents Richtofen or you believe Edward IS Richtofen, meaning he was directly involved in the events of this entire series? If its the first one then of courses; I don't think many are denying there's an obvious connection. If its the second one well that's debateable, seeing as how there would have to be more time fluxes and certain mind wipes to accomadate that Eddie is the actual person that was directly physically involved in all of these events.

Seeing as how the room is littered with information that hasn't come to pass yet, it's seeming more likely that the children had already invested some time in putting these stories together and it seems unlikely that Richtofen reverts in age to play a simple doll game with Sam basically reminiscing of their adventures together or that he forgets it all in the later maps.

Ok let me put it this way then, People including myself believe origins is at the start of WW2 retelling a tale of her Father etc etc.

But what if its not during the start of WW2 at all.

What if it is the End of Buried? Maxis is looking for his daughter correct? Maxis clearly must be somewhere in the Aether too, Richtofen is in the Aether controlling the zombies, So all 3 are in different time space dimensions or floating a out Argatha as the story hits the end of Black Ops 2....

What if the End sequence is All three in The Aether and THAT is what the end sequence is about, THAT right there is what would be the reason for all the play sets in the end sequence. And would feature everything from past maps as it already has happened

Before you jump down my throat, in Kino the Aether Projectionist Show Samantha's room proving that it IS possible.

Maybe Being in Argartha makes you godlike....hmmm gods...

Where have we seen that before

Thor, Odin and Freya

Maxis, Richtofen and Samantha

Two males 1 Female, coincidence? I Think not...Considering the other Norse gods that could have be used

[ETEl2NAL407]

The whole pick a side for the strongest power in Black ops 2 eggs screams child behaviors when I think about lol maybe I'm just reaching though, idk

You're right it is.

...But since Eddie did what he did to Sam during Moon (the firs game they played "tomorrow") she had to be creative in finding someone to battle Richtofen (Eddie's favorite character).

Enter her father: Maxis. He loves his little girl, so he's going to do everything he can to stop Richtofen. Now what Eddie? How can Richtofen gain control when Maxis is trying to stop him? Thus, the N4 receiving orders from them both.

[RdJokr]

The one thing that bothers me is that in no way shape or form could two little kids in 1917 could think of the Cia/cdc. No way could they think of the pentagon. No way could they think of space travel. Skyscrapers in die rise wouldn't have been thought of. Nome of the above could be thought of in the 1918 period that we think they are in. So they could possibly be in the future. No point in the cutscene is their a reference to time besides the use of a gramophone and an old clock. They could be way into the future after a couple generations have passed and these could be rictofens and maxis kids that are just given the same names.

Plus how would these little kids think up so many complex things like the mpd/ avocado/thundergun and other wonderweapons/ancient riddles/Agatha/the moon/and all these other things.

Plus why would Eddie let Sam make his character a complete psychopath. And why would richtofen let her.

Well by those standards there's no way h.g.wells could have thought up and wrote war of the worlds is there? There's no way Stephen king could have wrote all the horror fantasies he did either huh?

These 2 kids look about 11 and 13 and kids that age normally have a pretty overactive imagination. Cia, CDC, the pentagon? Those things all existed if we're going with fated timeline where its the beginning of WW2.

Their imagination must exist outside the boundaries of space and time then. How in the world would they just "imagine" JFK, Nixon, McNamara, Castro, and real life film actors fighting zombies?

Five and CotD alone are enough to put the whole "everything's a game" theory to rest.

[ETEl2NAL407]

Ok let me put it this way then, People including myself believe origins is at the start of WW2 retelling a tale of her Father etc etc.

But what if its not during the start of WW2 at all.

What if it is the End of Buried? Maxis is looking for his daughter correct? Maxis clearly must be somewhere in the Aether too, Richtofen is in the Aether controlling the zombies, So all 3 are in different time space dimensions or floating a out Argatha as the story hits the end of Black Ops 2....

What if the End sequence is All three in The Aether and THAT is what the end sequence is about, THAT right there is what would be the reason for all the play sets in the end sequence. And would feature everything from past maps as it already has happened

Before you jump down my throat, in Kino the Aether Projectionist Show Samantha's room proving that it IS possible.

Maybe Being in Argartha makes you godlike....hmmm gods...

Where have we seen that before

Thor, Odin and Freya

Maxis, Richtofen and Samantha

Two males 1 Female, coincidence? I Think not...Considering the other Norse gods that could have be used

Yes this makes more sense, but it's still a stretch.

The ending scene, could be an imagined reality shared by all 3 of them: Sam, Richtofen, and Maxis.

Sam hit the Aether first, so she has the most power. Maxis was next, but he didn't directly enter the same way Sam and Richtofen did, so he is not as directly tied to it as they are. Then Richtofen came in and he melded with Sam.

Sam is recreating reality for all three of them, but she keeps Richtofen close and he takes the role of her playmate. Maxis is still a father figure, so she lets him continue his research and keeps them all going with the threat of impending danger (the siren).

This is also a possibility, but it's not as easy to digest as it all just being a kids game.

[Charles871987]

The one thing that bothers me is that in no way shape or form could two little kids in 1917 could think of the Cia/cdc. No way could they think of the pentagon. No way could they think of space travel. Skyscrapers in die rise wouldn't have been thought of. Nome of the above could be thought of in the 1918 period that we think they are in. So they could possibly be in the future. No point in the cutscene is their a reference to time besides the use of a gramophone and an old clock. They could be way into the future after a couple generations have passed and these could be rictofens and maxis kids that are just given the same names.

Plus how would these little kids think up so many complex things like the mpd/ avocado/thundergun and other wonderweapons/ancient riddles/Agatha/the moon/and all these other things.

Plus why would Eddie let Sam make his character a complete psychopath. And why would richtofen let her.

Well by those standards there's no way h.g.wells could have thought up and wrote war of the worlds is there? There's no way Stephen king could have wrote all the horror fantasies he did either huh?

These 2 kids look about 11 and 13 and kids that age normally have a pretty overactive imagination. Cia, CDC, the pentagon? Those things all existed if we're going with fated timeline where its the beginning of WW2.

Their imagination must exist outside the boundaries of space and time then. How in the world would they just "imagine" JFK, Nixon, McNamara, Castro, and real life film actors fighting zombies?

Five and CotD alone are enough to put the whole "everything's a game" theory to rest.

Sorry but no, there's posters on the wall in the cutscene that depict the same color and font used for CotD, Signaling the acknowledgment of these maps, and a few other posters with the rest. There's no telling What year this particular scene takes place in, but if I had to guess it would be post 2025 seeing as how their latest game is taking place in that year, so ya see the "everything was a game" is more plausible than the ones that are trying to give meaning to how "this all could still be real" theories,

[FatedTitan]

Wow this blew up overnight. Let me see if I can address a few of the questions raised. Remember that I can see both sides of it and I know that some of the points I argued are a stretch(you're shocked after my other theories? )and some have evidence against them within the end cut scene as well. I'm just trying to give some form of argument to continuation. As stated, I'm in that "denial" area still I believe. Don't mistake that for not wanting to believe it's over. I've accepted that theory from the moment I saw it. But part of me wants to see if there's another way it could work and this is the way it could work.

She only calls them Hero's. I think the O4 were put in their because of Sam's history with them all. By History I mean them trying to stop her in WaW and Black Ops. If its her view point I honestly believe things were changed in her image to try to tell a more better story to Eddy.

But she couldn't have history with them if this was truely "the beginning." To say they have history is to say it's all a fantasy world. I'm trying to argue differently.

OK, ignore my last post. Now to talk about the inconsistency in Origins:

1. The drone.

Yes, Maxis' brain is used to operate the drone. However, who's to say that Maxis doesn't get a new body to use after that? If Richtofen somehow can create a quadrotor drone controlled by a single human brain, then brain transplant isn't all that hard to him. It's a possibility.

2. Maxis claiming Samantha to not be his daughter.

As I said before, I came up with a theory that Samantha may not be Maxis' legitimate daughter. However, it is very possible that after Origins, Maxis adopted her. That clears up the whole confusion. That is, assuming that Maxis' wife is still alive in 1918.

3. Samantha present in 1918

Here's the biggest question of them all. Now answer this: how could a mere child possibly end up in Agartha? And how is she capable of controlling the zombies? Samantha remains a mystery to us all. Even when we thought we knew her, we still don't. Is she related to the ancient evil in any way? Is she a child of the devil? Seems likely, otherwise she wouldn't be able to control all this.

Those reasons I stated above should be good enough to connect Origins to the rest of the zombies storyline. As for the kids not making up the rest of it, no arguments there. You nailed it.

Once again, I'd state that Moon radios don't seem to indicate that whatsoever. And I strongly believe that it's stupid to throw out all that we've known because of information we receive from a map that WE KNOW is told in fantasy format from Samantha's perspective. There's no argument there. And if I'm wanting to argue that it is the ONLY map told from her perspective, then the inconsistencies between fantasy and reality just don't correlate.

Pretty solid read, the only thing I'd have to disagree on is your strong view on Eddie "not having his turn yet" and "their eyes should be blue" and that its stating that its possible that the "real events haven't occurred yet" which is possible yes, but this cutscene could just have easily been depicting what happened the first time they played their game just as well which of course he wouldn't have had the time to craft their eyes blue.

Also take into account you can see the N4 characters under the bed and they only knew of Richtofen being in control so obviously the kids have been playing their game a while now and that statement from Richtofen was simply a statement by a disgruntled child not getting his turn, along with all the etch marks on the bed leg showing that Sam won 20 games and Eddie only 10 lol

Yes I understand this completely. You can argue a lot from hash marks and presence of items throughout the end cut scene. As stated, I'm just trying to make things connect in any way possible, while not COMPLETELY ignoring "duh" things in the cut scene. So I'll pull the weak argument of "we don't know what those hash marks are for."

I can totally understand that you want more...you've put time and effort into these theories and you deserve better.

Clutching/straws.

*facepalm*

Accept it bro, it's not easy - but we've been had.

Yes...I know. I'm just trying anything at this point. On a side note, it's a poor move by Treyarch because I only buy their games for zombies. Sucks to suck they aren't getting my money next time.

Going against my own theory thread for a minute.

Maxis quotes keeping Samantha close ever since Samantha's mother died, and even brought her on base to a top secret R&D site known as Der Riese. As for the link between Richtofen is as follows so read carefully.

Richtofen quotes having a sister and tormenting her toys

Richtofen is Samantha's Uncle (Samantha's quote)

Samantha has a mum

Maxis is Samantha's Father.

Richtofen Says to Samantha YOUR Father in origins

Richtofen is alot younger than Maxis

This concludes to the possible following outcomes.

Richtofens mother is Samantha's Mother hence why Richtofen is having a sleep over with Maxis And Samantha and why Richtofen DOESN'T call Richtofen his dad but does for Samantha (and also Why Samantha calls him uncle) due to Richtofen refuses to acknowledge Maxis as a father figure (age gap is too great to be "friends" as Richtofen calls him) and would also explain why Maxis choose to Bring Richtofen into Project Der Riese despite his wishes against it (quotes)

The other outcome is

Richtofens Sister is Samantha's Mum Hence the Uncle part, Although Richtofen used to pick on his sister as a very you g boy, He Blames Maxis for her death and seeks revenge.

Quotes prove he didn't always hate Samantha, looking out for her, creating teddies for her and so the quotes continue, this may be due to the fact that Samantha Looks like Richtofens sister and wants to protect her

(Until that moment when everything changes)

I just don't see Richtofen and Maxis having any relation.

I don't think there's any connection to Eddie and the Big Guy though. Probably may have both been based off the same

model.

This was a grasping at straws moment I'll admit haha. But I will say that their faces are the same, which could mean something. But who knows.

The one thing that gets me is the "My dad has a plan" I am not sure if this implies that in the future at this point (1918), maxis will indeed create the zombies, however I doubt it would be similar to whatever they had in mind.

I don't know for sure if we're in World War II or not, but I do know we aren't in 1918. It just doesn't add up at all for this. Samantha is telling a story. The map itself is in 1918, but her story telling is far after that. I argue World War II because it would be a great place to start the zombies story from that we know, but also the use of the term "The Great War", which was used before WWII was over.

I'm not going to speculate on family ties between Richtofen, Sam, and Maxis.

As a matter of fact, the names Maxis, nor Richtofen are even mentioned in the cutscene. The voice of the Father surely sounds like Maxis and we know Richtofen's first name is Eddie, but factually those names are not directly spoken during the scene.

Here's the transcript I've produced and it's 100% accurate.

Samantha: As the gates to Agartha were opened, the four heroes were rewarded with riches beyond their wildest imagination. From that day forward, they knew that Samantha would keep them safe...Forever.

Eddie: You're getting everything wrong. I told you before, their eyes should be blue.

Samantha: It's my turn, Eddie. I can do whatever I want.

Eddie: ...But, you don't even know how to play properly. Girls don't know enough about zombies.

(Sirens sound in background)

Father (Maxis?): (Shouting from a distance) Put your toys away, children. Make sure the windows are locked before you come down to the basement.

Eddie: You better do what your dad says.

(Samantha closes and locks window)

Eddie: ...I didn't even get my turn.

Samantha: Tomorrow, Eddie, you get to make the rules...I promise. (beckoning to her dog) Come on, Fluffy!

Eddie: I wish the heroes in our stories were real, Sam.

Samantha: I know what you mean, but we will make everything OK. My dad says he has a plan.

So, initial reactions are that the entire story and all of our gameplay across several maps was just the imagined world of two children playing with toys. This is a fair assumption, but the implications that this is how it ends I think are false. Here's why...

The siren in the background and Sam's father's instructions to lock the windows and head to the basement shortly after implies they're living in some dangerous world, possibly zombie infested? Eddie states that "girls don't know enough about zombies" and this could imply that zombies are a huge part of life and not just a fictional ocurrence that only fans have knowledge of. Sam states that, "tomorrow, eddie, you get to make the rules" to imply that there's more to come. Sam also states that her "dad has a plan" and that "we will make everything ok" to imply there is more to come.

Based off those key quotes and the storyline so far, I am theorizing that these two children are playing make-believe and that imagined world is what we've been experiencing throughout the 3 Treyarch titles. This much is pretty solid in my mind and it fills all the gaps in the storyline because it's imagined so it doesn't have to be perfect. However, for a child to imagine certain things we see during our gameplay, there would have to be some real-world knowledge they're pulling from.

I think the world these two children live in is infested by zombies and this is where they get their inspiration for their game from. This is why Eddie desires the heroes to be real. Their world has no zombie slaying heroes, so the children make them up as a hope that heroes like the O4 would truly exist and help cleanse their world of the infected.

If that's the case, it's quite possible that the true origins of the zombies in Samantha & Eddie's world were created in some other way. This is a clever way for Treyarch to wipe the storyboard clean and start anew, so I'm excited.

On the other hand...

Let's suppose that everything we've gone through was real. Samantha was trapped inside the Aether, Richtofen is also there within her body and Maxis has a presence there as well, perhaps not directly connected to Rich/Sam. Maybe they've been there for ages, after the entire world has been destroyed. Their only communication is with themselves and this scene depicts the imagined world they've created for themselves in order to perpetuate their existence. We all do the same thing. Quantum theories suggest our perception actually creates the reality we live in, so it's not difficult to suggest that a person trapped within some other dimension, alone and isolated, could recreate their reality as they saw fit. Having lost all connections to their pre-conditioned world that the rest of humanity would call "real", Sam would most definitely have had to recreate her reality out of necessity.

Richtofen and Maxis seem to have suffered a similar fate, Richtofen being more directly connected to Sam, would have to appear as a closer entity in Sam's imagined world. Therefore, Sam has given him the role of her playmate and they continually "play" together.

In conclusion, I think either these are children living in a zombie infested world and the real story is just beginning...

OR

Sam, Richtofen, and Maxis are trapped within another dimension, immortal, and share the same imagined reality: Sam and Richtofen playing together, Maxis continuing his research.

I think the only two realities we have at this point are Samantha's fantasy world and the real world. Either it's all made up or only Origins is made up. I don't see alternate realities, timelines, or anything like that anymore. I also don't see a zombie apocalypse being what's occurring in the cut scene. It just doesn't seem to fit, but I could be wrong.

The one thing that bothers me is that in no way shape or form could two little kids in 1917 could think of the Cia/cdc. No way could they think of the pentagon. No way could they think of space travel. Skyscrapers in die rise wouldn't have been thought of. Nome of the above could be thought of in the 1918 period that we think they are in. So they could possibly be in the future. No point in the cutscene is their a reference to time besides the use of a gramophone and an old clock. They could be way into the future after a couple generations have passed and these could be rictofens and maxis kids that are just given the same names.

Plus how would these little kids think up so many complex things like the mpd/ avocado/thundergun and other wonderweapons/ancient riddles/Agatha/the moon/and all these other things.

Plus why would Eddie let Sam make his character a complete psychopath. And why would richtofen let her.

The children aren't in 1917.

I think Eternal is on the money. I think they're living with no electricity and sirens outside their door because they live in an actual zombie apocalypse. I dislike how Treyarch ended their story but all things have to end I suppose. At least now Treyarch can possibly start a new story about zombies. With the next gen consoles coming out soon, they can possibly up the amount of the shit they can do and possibly make a better story and game than ever.

They have electricity. There's a chandelier above them that is powered. The candles may be there because you never know when power might go out.

Exactly!

All this talk about time-travel and parralel realities/universes doesn't matter! It was all in her head and then in her friend Eddie's head.

CotD and MotD were probably movies her Father was watching (A George Romero flick on day 1, mobster Alcatraz escape film on day 2) that the kids just kinda incorporated into their games. I think the kids were having a sleep-over and this was a weekend.

The sirens and the demand from Father to come to basement is the most intriguing thing because it sets the stage for more to come.

Now that the slate is clean because everything has been explained, Treyarch can write a story that will make sense because they can give it direction from the beginning. This ending is awesome!

It's hard to argue this point, though I'd state that you'd have to argue it from a zombie apocalypse scenario and not a WWII scenario. So if I wanted to argue my theory, I'd just say this doesn't add up because no one had home movies in the early 1940s. But if you argued WWIII/Zombie Apocalypse, I could see this.

They are living AT NTZ. That bedroom is in one of the 2 houses at Nuketown. The sirens are the same (I think) as you hear when a perk drops.

\

This is tough to argue. And I know I edited out some of your post, but still hard to argue. The houses at NTZ were all destroyed by the nuke. There was no place they could live.

@LJx19 (sorry couldn't quote your post too big haha)

Yes I know there are some holes in my theory. I'm just trying to put SOMETHING together, however easily argued some points are or aren't.

This is all I've got for now. I'm still on the fence of what I believe. I could make a strong case for it being the end of our zombies story as well, but that's a post for a different day.

[Charles871987]

Ok let me put it this way then, People including myself believe origins is at the start of WW2 retelling a tale of her Father etc etc.

But what if its not during the start of WW2 at all.

What if it is the End of Buried? Maxis is looking for his daughter correct? Maxis clearly must be somewhere in the Aether too, Richtofen is in the Aether controlling the zombies, So all 3 are in different time space dimensions or floating a out Argatha as the story hits the end of Black Ops 2....

What if the End sequence is All three in The Aether and THAT is what the end sequence is about, THAT right there is what would be the reason for all the play sets in the end sequence. And would feature everything from past maps as it already has happened

Before you jump down my throat, in Kino the Aether Projectionist Show Samantha's room proving that it IS possible.

Maybe Being in Argartha makes you godlike....hmmm gods...

Where have we seen that before

Thor, Odin and Freya

Maxis, Richtofen and Samantha

Two males 1 Female, coincidence? I Think not...Considering the other Norse gods that could have be used

Yes this makes more sense, but it's still a stretch.

The ending scene, could be an imagined reality shared by all 3 of them: Sam, Richtofen, and Maxis.

Sam hit the Aether first, so she has the most power. Maxis was next, but he didn't directly enter the same way Sam and Richtofen did, so he is not as directly tied to it as they are. Then Richtofen came in and he melded with Sam.

Sam is recreating reality for all three of them, but she keeps Richtofen close and he takes the role of her playmate. Maxis is still a father figure, so she lets him continue his research and keeps them all going with the threat of impending danger (the siren).

This is also a possibility, but it's not as easy to digest as it all just being a kids game.

I concur with his response as I was about to give a similar reply.

[RdJokr]

Sorry but no, there's posters on the wall in the cutscene that depict the same color and font used for CotD, Signaling the acknowledgment of these maps, and a few other posters with the rest. There's no telling What year this particular scene takes place in, but if I had to guess it would be post 2025 seeing as how their latest game is taking place in that year, so ya see the "everything was a game" is more plausible than the ones that are trying to give meaning to how "this all could still be real" theories,

If it's post 2025, then why the hell are they still using gramophones? Samantha has one in her room, right next to the window and teddy bear.