The Partially Cyclical Omnipotent Samantha Theory

[ZombieOfTheDead]

I appreciate that. I would attribute that to simply the CIA being wrong, and that everything in their bios is fake. Their entire history is a lie, a fabrication based on existing individuals. So much so that they believe it. I just don't see how both those and the letters we've gotten can be true.

Just wanted to see what you thought, and so I'll agree to disagree. Like I said, I can understand why you think that way, it's just I can't personally see them as being fakes per say. There's not really much we can say about it because we won't get any new info for like a year. None the less, love that you found away around it being a total cop out.

[MysteryMachineX]

@IRurG: Maxis's soul went into the MPD. The MPD was hooked up to Griffin Station. So it would be more correct to say Maxis's consciousness is the hard drive of Griffin Station.

@Charles: You're going to say everything is pointless no matter what evidence is given to you. So I see no point in arguing with one devoid of faith in Treyarch. This is a Zombies forum after all.

@Zombieofthedead: I don't see them as total fakes. I mean, just look at Richtofen. Two separate characters. In one, he's clinically insane. In the other, he is POLITE. I was playing as Richtofen and got a War Machine. He said something like, "Strange box, could you please give me something better next time?" But yeah, not much is going to change in regards to data. So I say just ride full speed ahead with this theory, unless anyone thinks up a preferable one.

[Charles871987]

@IRurG: Maxis's soul went into the MPD. The MPD was hooked up to Griffin Station. So it would be more correct to say Maxis's consciousness is the hard drive of Griffin Station.

@Charles: You're going to say everything is pointless no matter what evidence is given to you. So I see no point in arguing with one devoid of faith in Treyarch. This is a Zombies forum after all.

@Zombieofthedead: I don't see them as total fakes. I mean, just look at Richtofen. Two separate characters. In one, he's clinically insane. In the other, he is POLITE. I was playing as Richtofen and got a War Machine. He said something like, "Strange box, could you please give me something better next time?" But yeah, not much is going to change in regards to data. So I say just ride full speed ahead with this theory, unless anyone thinks up a preferable one.

Devoid really?, you don't know me, again, a biased and bigoted attitude. You've given me no more evidence than I've given you and you have yet to acknowledge anything I've said as any sort of possible truth and stuck to your "guns" and that it's the way you say it is. I however have implied your theory could pan out, think about that.

Edit: Speaking of your attitude, I have further addressed it in my thread so that will be that, I'm done arguing this with you, good luck on your theory.

[MysteryMachineX]

good luck on your theory.

Thank you. I appreciate it. Good luck on yours.

[Ehjookayted]

Bravo. Incredible theory. Great work man. That's all there is to be said; I completely agree. Initially, I despised the cutscene; I thought it ruined everything for me. But with time came understanding, and this thread seals the deal for me.

I love how the MOTD hidden Easter Egg song quote ties into this, too: "Let go, and the beginning becomes an end." Maybe we really have broken the cycle. I just hope we get to find out.

[king of cold]

The only thing I don't understand is how the characters can exist as real people AND toys in Samantha's bedroom.

[MysteryMachineX]

Bravo. Incredible theory. Great work man. That's all there is to be said; I completely agree. Initially, I despised the cutscene; I thought it ruined everything for me. But with time came understanding, and this thread seals the deal for me.

I love how the MOTD hidden Easter Egg song quote ties into this, too: "Let go, and the beginning becomes an end." Maybe we really have broken the cycle. I just hope we get to find out.

Thank you. I appreciate it. I loved the cutscene. Mostly because of the last line.

Actually, I noticed that that line is used in Buried and (I think) Origins as well. The songs seem to pull from older songs.

The only thing I don't understand is how the characters can exist as real people AND toys in Samantha's bedroom.

Samantha created the toys modeled after the real characters which were erased from existence by her.

[Dub Zee]

Actually if you want to say about the MPD Vril route with Maxis then, Although the Theory is a good one, its flawed in a sense that Maxis was killed infront of it talking to Samantha correct?

Well also know from the Radios that any living souls when killed near it are converted to ENERGY (see where im going with this?) into Element 115 which in turns fully restores power to the pyramid and gives full control over to Samantha

It can also be debated with my own theory that Maxis wasnt murdered, but rather killed himself to give full control over to Samantha to exact his revenge (Hence why Goph is shouting out "NO!" AFTER the gunshot and not before

Maxis in turn then becomes pure electrical Energy and a me to traverse electrical currents, Thus my point about only hearing maxis from the machines

EDIT: having completed Origins now, there is something i noticed in the End sequence

Maxis is talking through a Radio, or intercom? (maybe because he is in the basement, who knows)

But again, its STILL communicating through electrical devices, Everything is there, linking it all, under Neath the cinematics it have all info we need

[Delta]

Ok people. In all honesty, you people are just sounding bipolar, and it's confusing me. First, you go and say/think you want the story to be real. And then you go and watch the ending and think "oh, it's fake, my life's ruined…" And here's MMX coming up with a way to explain how it actually is real, and you want to shoot it down.

People, pick one. Make up your mind.

[LJx19]

The Partially Cyclical Omnipotent Samantha Theory

So the Side Mission for Origins has been completed, and we got a lot of juicy info about the storyline of zombies. For instance, for the second time in Zombies history (first being Mob of the Dead), the Side Mission ends the game, with closure being the only reward. And it has an ending cutscene, which is a first in itself, unless you count George Romero talking in Call of the Dead.

If you want to watch the video, go find one on this site somewhere. But we will start with the ending, because it has some important information. First of all, you see that Samantha is a normal little girl playing with toys, which are our characters. So the initial response is that this must just be a game, yes? Our characters are not just dead but never lived? But then look what happens, sirens go off. Bombings are going on. It's WWII. Maxis tells Samantha to come down to the basement to avoid the bombs.

Most important is the last few lines. "I wish the heroes in our stories were real, Sam." "I know what you mean, but we will make everything okay. My dad says he has a plan."

Woah, woah, wait a minute. WHAT. She says he has a plan? To do what? To make everything okay? Why are things not okay? Because they aren't real? So... there's a plan to make them real? It might seem like a stretch to some of you, but what else would the plan be for? Why would she say it in that matter unless she was saying the plan is to make the stories real?

What is the plan? It's WWII. The plan is to begin Group 935 again. The plan is create the technology that they had interacted with by using 115. The plan is to create test subjects that will be mirror images of their former selves. It is their fault that the world is safe, that Maxis is alive. The least that can be done is to repay the favor and give them life. But then things go wrong. Samantha ends up in the MPD, etc, etc, etc.

It's like Mob of the Dead, it's a cycle. And remember what Richtofen-in-Samuel's-body said in Buried?

"Nein! It cannot be like this forever! There must be a way to break the cycle!"

Samantha was last seen in Moon. We are told that 115 has the ability to pull things out of time and space. That's how the Mystery Box works in Origins (and the rest of the maps), as well as how the giant robots are there. If these things can be plucked, why not Samantha? We've all wondered where she's been since Moon, and it was the one place Richtofen could never see from the Aether, and that is Agartha. However, she didn't just get put into Agartha but into Agartha in 1918, back in time.

Samantha is sent back to the time of Origins, where she controls the zombies simply because no one else is present. We see Tank, Nikolai, Takeo, and Richtofen for the first time here. Samantha tried to explain to Maxis that she is his daughter, but this is before he ever knew about her.

At the end of the Side Mission, we free Samantha from Agartha. And we get immediate results. Maxis and Richtofen tried in Buried to master their power, but it worked against them. Maxis destroyed all he once held dear in vain for something he cherished much more. Richtofen destroyed all he cared not for to have fun, only to be imprisoned in Samuel's body, fighting zombies. But Samantha, because of Agartha, once being freed, managed to get full power. In other words, she became the closest thing to God. Mob of the Dead has the Devil. Origins has God. And her name is Samantha.

Once free, she uses her almighty powers granted from Agartha and/or Aether to rewrite time and space to her fitting, and she chooses... to be absolutely normal. She never wanted to be God. She chooses to make the whole thing nothing a but a game, wiped from history. She has a friend named after "Eddy", and she has her beloved father, and they're in WWII.

But Maxis has a plan. He remembers. After all, he was the one to grab and pull Samantha out of Agartha. (The drone goes first before the characters, which activates the gateway.) In WWII, he forms an organization, Group 935, this time with him as the leader. He gets four test subjects to be brainwashed and strikingly similar to the four heroes that had helped him so long ago. But there were unforeseen side affects. Tank was overtly angry. Nikolai was drunk. Takeo was more accepting. Edward... was a sociopath. Long story short, those four end up on the Moon with Samantha. Samantha gets trapped in Agartha in the past. The real heroes help her out. She recreates the universe. Maxis recreates them. And so forth.

So in essence, this is an issue of bending time:

WWI > WWII > Cold War > Earth Blown Up > Samantha disappears

Samantha reappears > Futuristic WWI > Samantha is rescued

Samantha plays games > WWII > Cold War > Earth Blown Up > Samantha disappears

Samantha reappears > Futuristic WWI > Samantha is rescued

Samantha plays games > WWII > Cold War > Earth Blown Up > Samantha disappears

Samantha reappears > Futuristic WWI > Samantha is rescued

Samantha plays games > WWII > Cold War > Earth Blown Up > Samantha disappears

Samantha reappears > Futuristic WWI > Samantha is rescued

Samantha plays games > WWII > Cold War > Earth Blown Up > Samantha disappears

And so forth.

The only problem with this is that Maxis remembers. If he remembered, he'd know there was a cycle. Richtofen seems to have gleaned this information in Buried. The solution is that the cycle is not an endless cycle. We cannot see how the cycle began, but the cycle ends by the "breaking of the cycle". We did this in Mob of the Dead. This cycle is not one to repeat hundreds of times, but rather a handful, and it could break at any time, in fact, we could've just broken it.

Does the cycle break now? It's up to Maxis. He has the plan.

Thanks for reading. Feel free to post questions and discuss. And before you think of posting "it was just a game that makes no sense", try to explain how a girl in WWII can know about JFK and Stalin. No, actually, don't. But thanks for reading this far, and have at it!

Credits:

Naitrax's alternate-reality note: viewtopic.php?f=155&t=35272

iRurG's original Samantha theory: viewtopic.php?f=155&t=35858

1) You're right. Its WW2 based on the complete fact of nothing. (its 2013 and the only tech I have in my room is my tv and Xbox, I don't have cable cuz I don't watch tv).

2) Okay so the plan is that Samantha god is gonna create 935 to trap herself in a time loop or maxis creates 935 to time loop themselves?

3) Samantha was last seen in moon. In richtofens body. Which maxis specifically asked if he doesn't want it back on buried. But no lets ignore that one because element 115 just suddenly decided its gonna pull her out that body, send her not only back in time but to a place of myth, to have an 8 year old girl control zombies. DAMN YOU QUANTUM MECHANICS FOR YOUR UNCERTAINTY THEORY!!!!!!!!

4) And here's the kicker, Sam, who just offhandedly became god has now decided, Ey, trapping yourself in time loops be fun dawg, lets do dat again.

-.- yep. Sheer brilliance. This also means that there would be no more zombies. So hey if there's no zombies in the next treyarch game I'll accept your theory.

[MysteryMachineX]

Actually if you want to say about the MPD Vril route with Maxis then, Although the Theory is a good one, its flawed in a sense that Maxis was killed infront of it talking to Samantha correct?

Well also know from the Radios that any living souls when killed near it are converted to ENERGY (see where im going with this?) into Element 115 which in turns fully restores power to the pyramid and gives full control over to Samantha

Are you going to argue about this thread or just try to dispute the entire storyline? Btw, electrical energy is what makes a brain and a hard drive tick.

It can also be debated with my own theory that Maxis wasnt murdered, but rather killed himself to give full control over to Samantha to exact his revenge (Hence why Goph is shouting out "NO!" AFTER the gunshot and not before

Maxis wasn't evil though. He'd have no reason to do that. There was nothing to avenge yet.

Maxis in turn then becomes pure electrical Energy and a me to traverse electrical currents, Thus my point about only hearing maxis from the machines

This game has souls in it. Maxis still has a soul to him.

EDIT: having completed Origins now, there is something i noticed in the End sequence

Maxis is talking through a Radio, or intercom? (maybe because he is in the basement, who knows)

But again, its STILL communicating through electrical devices, Everything is there, linking it all, under Neath the cinematics it have all info we need

I think it is because Maxis has a tradition of talking through radios. So just like the characters are dolls, the radios are just Maxis speaking through an intercom. That's the immediate implication, however. The true one I've laid out.

You aren't really even talking about this thread anymore. You're entire understanding of the storyline is completely different from anything I've ever heard. Discussion of that nature would better take place in a more appropriate thread.

Ok people. In all honesty, you people are just sounding bipolar, and it's confusing me. First, you go and say/think you want the story to be real. And then you go and watch the ending and think "oh, it's fake, my life's ruined…" And here's MMX coming up with a way to explain how it actually is real, and you want to shoot it down.

People, pick one. Make up your mind.

I... tend to agree with him on this one.

1) You're right. Its WW2 based on the complete fact of nothing. (its 2013 and the only tech I have in my room is my tv and Xbox, I don't have cable cuz I don't watch tv).

It's rude to quote the entire huge long post.

Ever heard of the London Blitz? No? Go look it up. Do you also have a gramophone and the need to casually go into the basement at the sound of a siren? No.

2) Okay so the plan is that Samantha god is gonna create 935 to trap herself in a time loop or maxis creates 935 to time loop themselves?

No, Maxis either continues the cycle or breaks it. His choice. No different than ours in-game.

3) Samantha was last seen in moon. In richtofens body. Which maxis specifically asked if he doesn't want it back on buried. But no lets ignore that one because element 115 just suddenly decided its gonna pull her out that body, send her not only back in time but to a place of myth, to have an 8 year old girl control zombies. DAMN YOU QUANTUM MECHANICS FOR YOUR UNCERTAINTY THEORY!!!!!!!!

She was in Agartha. It literally mattered not what body she was in. And when she became God she fixed everything anyway.

4) And here's the kicker, Sam, who just offhandedly became god has now decided, Ey, trapping yourself in time loops be fun dawg, lets do dat again.

-.- yep. Sheer brilliance. This also means that there would be no more zombies. So hey if there's no zombies in the next treyarch game I'll accept your theory.

She doesn't know it will be a time loop. But she does know she doesn't want power. It'd be foolish to think otherwise.

"Only those who don't want power know how to use it."

And there can surely be more zombies. I specifically put a spot for that on the chart at the top of the post.

[LJx19]

Actually if you want to say about the MPD Vril route with Maxis then, Although the Theory is a good one, its flawed in a sense that Maxis was killed infront of it talking to Samantha correct?

Well also know from the Radios that any living souls when killed near it are converted to ENERGY (see where im going with this?) into Element 115 which in turns fully restores power to the pyramid and gives full control over to Samantha

Are you going to argue about this thread or just try to dispute the entire storyline? Btw, electrical energy is what makes a brain and a hard drive tick.

It can also be debated with my own theory that Maxis wasnt murdered, but rather killed himself to give full control over to Samantha to exact his revenge (Hence why Goph is shouting out "NO!" AFTER the gunshot and not before

Maxis wasn't evil though. He'd have no reason to do that. There was nothing to avenge yet.

Maxis in turn then becomes pure electrical Energy and a me to traverse electrical currents, Thus my point about only hearing maxis from the machines

This game has souls in it. Maxis still has a soul to him.

EDIT: having completed Origins now, there is something i noticed in the End sequence

Maxis is talking through a Radio, or intercom? (maybe because he is in the basement, who knows)

But again, its STILL communicating through electrical devices, Everything is there, linking it all, under Neath the cinematics it have all info we need

I think it is because Maxis has a tradition of talking through radios. So just like the characters are dolls, the radios are just Maxis speaking through an intercom. That's the immediate implication, however. The true one I've laid out.

You aren't really even talking about this thread anymore. You're entire understanding of the storyline is completely different from anything I've ever heard. Discussion of that nature would better take place in a more appropriate thread.

Ok people. In all honesty, you people are just sounding bipolar, and it's confusing me. First, you go and say/think you want the story to be real. And then you go and watch the ending and think "oh, it's fake, my life's ruined…" And here's MMX coming up with a way to explain how it actually is real, and you want to shoot it down.

People, pick one. Make up your mind.

I... tend to agree with him on this one.

1) You're right. Its WW2 based on the complete fact of nothing. (its 2013 and the only tech I have in my room is my tv and Xbox, I don't have cable cuz I don't watch tv).

It's rude to quote the entire huge long post.

Ever heard of the London Blitz? No? Go look it up. Do you also have a gramophone and the need to casually go into the basement at the sound of a siren? No.

2) Okay so the plan is that Samantha god is gonna create 935 to trap herself in a time loop or maxis creates 935 to time loop themselves?

No, Maxis either continues the cycle or breaks it. His choice. No different than ours in-game.

3) Samantha was last seen in moon. In richtofens body. Which maxis specifically asked if he doesn't want it back on buried. But no lets ignore that one because element 115 just suddenly decided its gonna pull her out that body, send her not only back in time but to a place of myth, to have an 8 year old girl control zombies. DAMN YOU QUANTUM MECHANICS FOR YOUR UNCERTAINTY THEORY!!!!!!!!

She was in Agartha. It literally mattered not what body she was in. And when she became God she fixed everything anyway.

4) And here's the kicker, Sam, who just offhandedly became god has now decided, Ey, trapping yourself in time loops be fun dawg, lets do dat again.

-.- yep. Sheer brilliance. This also means that there would be no more zombies. So hey if there's no zombies in the next treyarch game I'll accept your theory.

She doesn't know it will be a time loop. But she does know she doesn't want power. It'd be foolish to think otherwise.

"Only those who don't want power know how to use it."

And there can surely be more zombies. I specifically put a spot for that on the chart at the top of the post.

My bad I'm doing this on phone and its too much hassle to go back and cut quotes to what I want.

Interesting how you skipped over the how she got into agartha in the first place part, unless you're really gonna go with my quantum mechanics statement.

Also for the sirens, I'll let you have that as I've never been to Germany so idk what those things go off for.

Then if maxis is the one continuing the loop, why does Sam keep going along with it if she knows what happens?

[MysteryMachineX]

Oh okay.

She got trapped in Agartha because Maxis says the 115 can displace time and space, and she's sure had a lot of it. Apparently it displaced her into an entire other time and space.

Does Samantha in the ending look like she knows that they're real? Honestly, it's ambiguous. She may or may not. But Maxis does. Like I said, the loop hasn't repeated hundreds of times. But the story is impossible without Origins and Origins is impossible without the story. They are CURRENTLY in a loop. But that doesn't mean each time ends exactly the same. In fact, we could be breaking the cycle right now. Maxis could choose to lead 935 in a more profitable direction. He could choose to make Group 935 a pizza operation if he wants! It's Maxis's choice. He can try to change his fate or succumb to it.

[LJx19]

Oh okay.

She got trapped in Agartha because Maxis says the 115 can displace time and space, and she's sure had a lot of it. Apparently it displaced her into an entire other time and space.

Does Samantha in the ending look like she knows that they're real? Honestly, it's ambiguous. She may or may not. But Maxis does. Like I said, the loop hasn't repeated hundreds of times. But the story is impossible without Origins and Origins is impossible without the story. They are CURRENTLY in a loop. But that doesn't mean each time ends exactly the same. In fact, we could be breaking the cycle right now. Maxis could choose to lead 935 in a more profitable direction. He could choose to make Group 935 a pizza operation if he wants! It's Maxis's choice. He can try to change his fate or succumb to it.

well ok not bad but I'll add this lastly.

Has there ever been an instance where 115 just suddenly displaced time and space? All I can remember is it being used intentionally for a specific purpose but having other adverse effects. Check all the stuff. Gersch devices were for teleportation but adversely is a black hole for zombies. The teleporters overshoot the mark sometimes and send them to different locations (ex. CoTD).

I just really need an explanation as to how she would have up and moved from the moon to agartha. Not only that but completely leaving richtofens body behind. Which means he could have used his body again. But didn't.

[Dub Zee]

Are you going to argue about this thread or just try to dispute the entire storyline? Btw, electrical energy is what makes a brain and a hard drive tick.

Im providing an extremely valid alternate theory to yours that is backed by well over 10 maps worth of information that some of it you claim to know nothing about, things that have always been there and been giving us clues all along, clues that have ALWAYS been consistant.

I have read over everyones theory so far and they are all extremely plausible and have said so, so dont dismiss mine when ive got ALL ingame evidence to back it up, Im not just going off Origins

. Maxis wasn't evil though. He'd have no reason to do that. There was nothing to avenge yet.

Have you missed every map before Tranzit/Green run? Evil doesn't come into it, He is being a father and protecting his daughter and would do anything including sacrificing his own life for her, as a father i can fully understand that.

He apologises to Samantha for not knowing what was going on and he DOES have a bloody reason because RICHTOFEN locked Maxis and Samantha in a teleporter with a hellhound and left them to die, I'd say that is cause for revenge wouldn't it

. This game has souls in it. Maxis still has a soul to him

Yes there are souls, however I like to remind you of the radio transcript of Richtofen experimenting on Takeo, Nikolai and Tank, instead if turning into zombies after coming into contact with Element 115, they had something different happen to them and as a result lost their memories.

So who else has come into contact with element 115

Maxis - not dead but as an electric current

Richtofen - not dead - controls Argatha now

Samantha - Not dead, switched places with Richtofen

Tank - Didn't Turn into a zombie like everyone else

Nikolai - as above

Takeo - as above (but slowly remembering)

Gersh - worked with element 115 to create a multi dimensional teleporting device (The Gersh device)

Yuri - working with Gersh and Element 115 Yuri soon starts to hear a demonic voice telling him what to do

Brock and Gary- while hunting for Mewtwo find themselves in the new region of Shangri la, and get caught in a everlasting time loop. THAT time loop isn't infinite and can be changed As the Easter egg steps get further on

Samuel J. Stuhlinger - after his cannalism, he are zombies which are empowered by element 115, its how they exists, proved throughout countless maps

I've miss some people but meh, my point is ALL the people who come into direct contact with Element 115 have "Side effects"

Maxis, Samantha and Richtofen also have been inside the MPD pyramid and is why they can still be alive after death so to speak

.think it is because Maxis has a tradition of talking through radios. So just like the characters are dolls, the radios are just Maxis speaking through an intercom. That's the immediate implication, however. The true one I've laid out.

You aren't really even talking about this thread anymore. You're entire understanding of the storyline is completely different from anything I've ever heard. Discussion of that nature would better take place in a more appropriate thread.

Traditional. Theres something that IS consistent, maxis talking through a radio....

Intercoms would only be TRUE if maxis is the one experimenting on Samantha and shes in some sort of mental institute

I have kept completely on thread and and are putting my views up there

Because you don't seem to know half of what i have mentioned in previous map indicates you ARE just taking origins on face value, go back through the other maps or better yet i will compile the items i have stated in detail for you, if you still think my theory doesn't have merit than great, even better if you can disprove it because we would be closer than ever to finding the real Truth.

As i said before everything I ever post is backed up by real facts taken from i game, actual evidence, my theories come from those facts.

[DragonGJY]

Um, wait, i think i am missing something.

Question 1: Is Agartha a physical dimension/place or an abstract one like Aether?

Question 2: How exactly Sam enters Agartha?

Question 3: Maxis in buried end game claims to save her from Agartha but how exactly..? Is he failed? ( Kinda cant understand buried end game of Maxis )

Ps. Very, very fantastic post!

[TheBSZombie]

Sirens go off ALL the time in certain towns of the U.S. curfew wise/emergency tests/an actual emergency. And maybe it was time for family fun night in the basement :roll:

But I do actually believe this theory. Good job mmx. One thing that I really question is this. Why would Samantha bring back all these posters and have a huge staff in her bedroom. And the markings on her bed, how would they have gotten there.

[DeathBringerZen]

Ok people. In all honesty, you people are just sounding bipolar, and it's confusing me. First, you go and say/think you want the story to be real. And then you go and watch the ending and think "oh, it's fake, my life's ruined…" And here's MMX coming up with a way to explain how it actually is real, and you want to shoot it down.

People, pick one. Make up your mind.

I would actually love the story to be real myself, and think MMX is one of the most intelligent people on this board, but I am not going to suddenly change my mind on the ending based on the line...

"Samantha created the toys modeled after the real characters which were erased from existence by her."

I personally feel it IS just a game being played by Samantha and Eddie.

Eddie even says the zombies should have Blue eyes, confirming he is the one playing the role of Richtofen. When we play the game and the zombies DO have Blue eyes, this is only because it is Eddies turn to play, and he get's to make the rules up, and when the eyes are Orange, it is Samantha's turn.

This does not actually mean that I am right though, but the evidence pointing towards it being nothing more than just a game of make believe is very, very strong.

I really am just butt hurt with the ending though, and really want it to be something completely different to what I am thinking it is.

I put 4+ years into this game, taking everything I found from the maps and attempted to piece it all together to find out everything I could, and it all feels like it was for nothing.

[GRILL]

very nice theory, Murder. Gives me hope for the future.

The only "hole in your theory" question I have for you is - if it's WW2, how does Sam have a video camera? She clearly uses it as the "eye of the beholder", because she knocks over zombie action figures while making sound effects - and then carefully sets it down so it's a double shot of her and Eddy. Later, it is clearly illustrated that the device is a camera by the dog, Fluffy, knocking it over - skewing the angle. I'm unsure if they had a handheld version of the video camera so early in history.

EDIT: TheRealMistyBriarton pointed out to me that the POV is actually from the Tank Dempsey action figure's view, not a video camera. Disregard the above paragraph!

I think that the gramaphone is a great point in regards to what time period it would be - but I would argue that perhaps it was just used for aesthetic purposes, such as all the other items in the room (chalk drawings, fake perk bottles, posters, etc.)

so - were Sam and Eddie both in control for ORIGINS? Considering that there are both yellow eyed, and blue eyed zombies? (regular zombies = yellow, templar zombies from the crypt = blue).

Another thing I wanted to point out was the specificity of the zombie/enemy action figures. We have a zombie from Buried (cowboy hat), a zombie from MotD (barb wire wrapped around him), the Panzer Soldat from ORIGINS - all very detailed toys, yes? Well, let's have a look at our O4:

Those are the WaW-BO era O4. One would think that the toy company making these action figures would have made younger figurines as well, as I can attest that in my childhood days, there would be multiple versions of the same character (i.e. Tank Dempsey, young Tank, Ascension Blood Splattered Tank, Astronaut Tank). I'm not sure what it could mean, but I figured that it was an oversight worth pointing out.

[Dub Zee]

"Samantha created the toys modeled after the real characters which were erased from existence by her."

I could believe in MMX theory and everyone else's about how its a game, in fact if it was true it wouldn't be a new idea, Someone said in BlackOps one on a rival zombies site that This could all be in Samantha's head years ago.

However the quote above and a few others contradict everything these kind of theory's stand for, For instance Samantha didnt erase anything, the characters were left on Moon, bodies switch and their fate not yet known. Origins IS a Beginning, it says so countless times in references and directly at us the player.

Otherwise why call it origins, might aswell call it grand finale, screw you community or HaHaHaHa we rolled you good

Secondly people bringing up children's imagination etc that is why there is Eddie and Sam written.

However What father in his right mind would let a BOY friend stay over? I dont want to hear its war time because i stated they are WW2 sirens in the first place, But even so, Richtofen and Samantha being related is far more possible than just a random child who takes on the persona of Richtofen.

TBH im done, im making real headway with the secret code and what it shows so far backs up my theory 100%, waffles is also working on the code too so hopefully all will be revealed soon

Although i dont people will accept that either way even when the truth is right in front of you

[TheRealMistyBriarton]

The only "hole in your theory" question I have for you is - if it's WW2, how does Sam have a video camera? She clearly uses it as the "eye of the beholder", because she knocks over zombie action figures while making sound effects - and then carefully sets it down so it's a double shot of her and Eddy. Later, it is clearly illustrated that the device is a camera by the dog, Fluffy, knocking it over - skewing the angle. I'm unsure if they had a handheld version of the video camera so early in history.

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I think we are supposed to be looking through the POV of the Tank doll, as we never see Tank's doll during the end cutscene, while we see WaW-BO Era, Richtofen, Takeo and Nikolai (along with Samuel and Russman under the bed), so I think what seems like a video camera is supposed to be us looking through the PoV of the Tank doll (aka, us as the players) while Samantha plays with "us"

[GRILL]

The only "hole in your theory" question I have for you is - if it's WW2, how does Sam have a video camera? She clearly uses it as the "eye of the beholder", because she knocks over zombie action figures while making sound effects - and then carefully sets it down so it's a double shot of her and Eddy. Later, it is clearly illustrated that the device is a camera by the dog, Fluffy, knocking it over - skewing the angle. I'm unsure if they had a handheld version of the video camera so early in history.

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I think we are supposed to be looking through the POV of the Tank doll, as we never see Tank's doll during the end cutscene, while we see WaW-BO Era, Richtofen, Takeo and Nikolai (along with Samuel and Russman under the bed), so I think what seems like a video camera is supposed to be us looking through the PoV of the Tank doll (aka, us as the players) while Samantha plays with "us"

Ah yes, I think you are right. Well, disregard my comment about the video camera then lol. Good catch Misty.

[TheRealMistyBriarton]

Ah yes, I think you are right. Well, disregard my comment about the video camera then lol. Good catch Misty.

Thanks Grill, anytime man. ;)

[ZombieOfTheDead]

So I'm guessing to break the cycle, Maxis has to win the easter egg on buried? I can see no other reason for having two outcomes. The cycle just continues until he wins. After all, Maxis seems to know alot about agartha, and wanting to free her in that time.

[MysteryMachineX]

I'm sorry IRurG. Arguing with you is not going anywhere, so I really don't see the point. I'd rather not turn this thread into some sort of flame war. I mean no offense, but you aren't going to agree with me, and I don't agree with you. So let's just leave it at that.

well ok not bad but I'll add this lastly.

Has there ever been an instance where 115 just suddenly displaced time and space? All I can remember is it being used intentionally for a specific purpose but having other adverse effects. Check all the stuff. Gersch devices were for teleportation but adversely is a black hole for zombies. The teleporters overshoot the mark sometimes and send them to different locations (ex. CoTD).

I just really need an explanation as to how she would have up and moved from the moon to agartha. Not only that but completely leaving richtofens body behind. Which means he could have used his body again. But didn't.

Yes actually. Maxis told us that is what it does, and it explains so much. The guns are displaced. The Perks are displaced. The Pack-A-Punch is displaced. Marlton even says, "This machine seems to be a constant wherever we go!" The giant robots, generators, Panzer Soldats, Wunderfizz, nearly all of the technology in Origins is displaced. As Richtofen says, it would not be possible without 115. In fact, it is probably how the Buried town got buried.

And she didn't necessarily leave Richtofen's body behind. She could've taken it with her. But you never physically see her until she fixes everything.

Um, wait, i think i am missing something.

Question 1: Is Agartha a physical dimension/place or an abstract one like Aether?

Question 2: How exactly Sam enters Agartha?

Question 3: Maxis in buried end game claims to save her from Agartha but how exactly..? Is he failed? ( Kinda cant understand buried end game of Maxis )

Ps. Very, very fantastic post!

1: Both, kinda. It's another dimension that we have never been to. We can only imagine what it is like.

2: 115 displaces many things. Why not her? It seems she was displaced too.

3: He is above our "mortal minds". I don't think we are supposed to know how he intended to do it.

And thank you.

Sirens go off ALL the time in certain towns of the U.S. curfew wise/emergency tests/an actual emergency. And maybe it was time for family fun night in the basement :roll:

But I do actually believe this theory. Good job mmx. One thing that I really question is this. Why would Samantha bring back all these posters and have a huge staff in her bedroom. And the markings on her bed, how would they have gotten there.

And for curfew in a random town you must go lock the windows? Sorry there isn't a WWII sign on the wall, but they have all the signs of it.

Thank you. It is no different than the toys. She remakes the world so that it never happened. All that's left is her imagination (that's really how it all began anyway). This manifests itself in the form of toys.

I would actually love the story to be real myself, and think MMX is one of the most intelligent people on this board, but I am not going to suddenly change my mind on the ending based on the line...

"Samantha created the toys modeled after the real characters which were erased from existence by her."

I personally feel it IS just a game being played by Samantha and Eddie.

Eddie even says the zombies should have Blue eyes, confirming he is the one playing the role of Richtofen. When we play the game and the zombies DO have Blue eyes, this is only because it is Eddies turn to play, and he get's to make the rules up, and when the eyes are Orange, it is Samantha's turn.

This does not actually mean that I am right though, but the evidence pointing towards it being nothing more than just a game of make believe is very, very strong.

I really am just butt hurt with the ending though, and really want it to be something completely different to what I am thinking it is.

I put 4+ years into this game, taking everything I found from the maps and attempted to piece it all together to find out everything I could, and it all feels like it was for nothing.

I'm not going to suddenly change mine.

Again, saying "It doesn't count; it's just a game; it doesn't make sense" is NOT a theory. It's giving up on the game. You can do this at any time. Many people did this exact thing in TranZit. And to be honest, those people aren't of any use to the story. The story will not be developed by people who choose to just throw their hands in the air. Analyzing the ending objectively gives you some final words that do not make sense with the view that nothing matters. Especially considering the WWII time.

And if Samantha can make a world perfectly normal, she can make herself a friend modeled after her old "uncle". There is NO evidence saying it is just a game.

Treyarch intended to pull something akin to Bioshock Infinite or Inception. The ending makes you come to one conclusion. but then the final words turn your whole world upside down. Sadly though people got too upset by the first part to ever really think about the last.

very nice theory, Murder. Gives me hope for the future.

The only "hole in your theory" question I have for you is - if it's WW2, how does Sam have a video camera? She clearly uses it as the "eye of the beholder", because she knocks over zombie action figures while making sound effects - and then carefully sets it down so it's a double shot of her and Eddy. Later, it is clearly illustrated that the device is a camera by the dog, Fluffy, knocking it over - skewing the angle. I'm unsure if they had a handheld version of the video camera so early in history.

It's not a camera. It's the perspective of the Tank Dempsey action figure. Got this from bagel:

The first thing is the actual perspective we're seeing this through. I don't believe Samantha is playing with a camera, but instead, an actual figurine. After thinking on it for a bit and analyzing the cutscene, I noticed that all of the N4 are there, but only three of the O4 are there. We see Nikolai, Richtofen, and Takeo. But no Dempsey. With this in mind, rewind a bit. Sam is holding us close to her face, then makes shooting sound effects as she rams us into the zombie figurines, as if we were shooting them. This is almost enough proof for me to say we are at least supposed to be seeing through the eyes of one of the protagonists. Dempsey was notorious for breaking the fourth wall in our game, particularly in Moon, saying things directly to the player like "Hey player! Drop the chips ad get me some ammo!" We also heard things like this from Misty, but we actually see her in the scene, not to mention we've been with Tank sense the beginning. The only question I have is this: Why? I feel as though there must be something behind this that needs to be explained. Why have we been looking through Tank's eyes this whole time?

I think that the gramaphone is a great point in regards to what time period it would be - but I would argue that perhaps it was just used for aesthetic purposes, such as all the other items in the room (chalk drawings, fake perk bottles, posters, etc.)

You could say that. But it's like I've said, the whole atmosphere together comes off as being WWII, even if there are other alternatives, WWII is the most likely. It's like looking at Shangri-La. It COULD be a modern-day ritual site made out of stone. But we know it isn't.

so - were Sam and Eddie both in control for ORIGINS? Considering that there are both yellow eyed, and blue eyed zombies? (regular zombies = yellow, templar zombies from the crypt = blue).

I didn't touch on that much. But Samantha was in control I say, but she was really limited because of being trapped in Agartha. She didn't have a Mystery Box and she didn't control all the zombies. The blue-eyed ones are a bit of mystery. The explanation I back for that is that they aren't blue-eyed. The intro sequence clearly shows white surrounded by purple. But in-game they appear blue. Why the difference? I suggest it is the literal blue atmosphere of the game giving ambient coloring to the eyes, and that they are supposed to be purple, like a default color. Whether you believe that or not though doesn't affect this theory

Another thing I wanted to point out was the specificity of the zombie/enemy action figures. We have a zombie from Buried (cowboy hat), a zombie from MotD (barb wire wrapped around him), the Panzer Soldat from ORIGINS - all very detailed toys, yes? Well, let's have a look at our O4:

Those are the WaW-BO era O4. One would think that the toy company making these action figures would have made younger figurines as well, as I can attest that in my childhood days, there would be multiple versions of the same character (i.e. Tank Dempsey, young Tank, Ascension Blood Splattered Tank, Astronaut Tank). I'm not sure what it could mean, but I figured that it was an oversight worth pointing out.

I don't think they were made by a toy company at all but a fabrication of the reality Samantha placed herself within.

Ah yes, I think you are right. Well, disregard my comment about the video camera then lol. Good catch Misty.

Thanks Grill, anytime man.

Sorry, already commented on it guys. But thanks Misty.

So I'm guessing to break the cycle, Maxis has to win the easter egg on buried? I can see no other reason for having two outcomes. The cycle just continues until he wins. After all, Maxis seems to know alot about agartha, and wanting to free her in that time.

No, it literally doesn't matter who wins Buried. It's the end of the timeline before time is changed. Imagine having a rope. You tie the end of the rope to the beginning, but you overdo it. You end up having a string hang off and untwine. One of the untwined ends is the Maxis ending, the other the Richtofen ending.