The Partially Cyclical Omnipotent Samantha Theory

[nayrcraig]

@Delta

You are claiming confusion of the actions of people who want the story to be real but yet disagree with MMX's theory, well I'll try to explain. I personally want the story to be real but first and foremost I want the story to suit the facts we are given, if the facts suggest the story isn't real (witch I'm not saying they are just giving an example) then I will have to believe it is not real, in regards to MMX's post, yes he gives a solution that allows the story to remain reality but if that solution contradicts facts (witch I believe it does and will explain in a minute) then I must reluctantly point out the flaws I see. Just because I disagree with his idea doesn't mean that I believe the story is all made up I just believe I personally need a different explanation.

@IRurG

I believe some of the things you are bringing up, Treyarch themselves have forgot, they were options they created but chose not to follow up, but just because they forgot about them doesn't mean we have to, it is great to see your ideas but it is also possible to understand the current story without knowledge of certain aspects as Treyarch did not make them necessary in the recent maps. I think the best thing to do here is agree to disagree and you can discus your ideas further at a different time.

@MMX

This is a fantastic sounding theory and I admire the work put into it, but unfortunately I do have a problem with it, two things I have noticed really don't add up,

Firstly, I believe the opening lines of the intro to be said in the same setting of the ending scene, Sam talking to Eddie in her room, but she cannot be saying that if she gained the power to create the setting the the room after the events of origins. In my mind Sam is telling Eddie everything that happens in origins, from her speaking the opening lines to Eddie telling her she got it all wrong and unless I'm misinterpertating it, that cannot happen using your theory

[MysteryMachineX]

@MMX

This is a fantastic sounding theory and I admire the work put into it, but unfortunately I do have a problem with it, two things I have noticed really don't add up,

Firstly, I believe the opening lines of the intro to be said in the same setting of the ending scene, Sam talking to Eddie in her room, but she cannot be saying that if she gained the power to create the setting the the room after the events of origins. In my mind Sam is telling Eddie everything that happens in origins, from her speaking the opening lines to Eddie telling her she got it all wrong and unless I'm misinterpertating it, that cannot happen using your theory

That can surely happen. In the new timeline, everything that was to Samantha is nothing a but a toy game. So she does in fact tell Eddy about Origins, either secretly knowing, or blissfully unaware, that the events actually transpired.

[nayrcraig]

@MMX

This is a fantastic sounding theory and I admire the work put into it, but unfortunately I do have a problem with it, two things I have noticed really don't add up,

Firstly, I believe the opening lines of the intro to be said in the same setting of the ending scene, Sam talking to Eddie in her room, but she cannot be saying that if she gained the power to create the setting the the room after the events of origins. In my mind Sam is telling Eddie everything that happens in origins, from her speaking the opening lines to Eddie telling her she got it all wrong and unless I'm misinterpertating it, that cannot happen using your theory

That can surely happen. In the new timeline, everything that was to Samantha is nothing a but a toy game. So she does in fact tell Eddy about Origins, either secretly knowing, or blissfully unaware, that the events actually transpired.

But from what I understand is that in your theory at the end if origins Sam gains full power, becomes "GOD" and choses to become a normal girl who is just telling a story to her friend/brother Eddie. The reason that doesn't work for me is that se begins telling the story before origins begins.

[MysteryMachineX]

Before, after, such relative words in a multiple timeline scenario. I'm sure George Romero didn't un-zombify to tell us a story at the end of Call of the Dead. Just like in Mob of the Dead, Sal and Finn weren't talking about the plan AND enacting it at the exact same time. It's for dramatic effect. But you can still place when all of these things were said. For this one, it is when Samantha is telling Eddy the story of Origins in a game that she is playing based on real events. Reminds me of ring around the rosy.

[nayrcraig]

To try and help me understand this multiple time line thing I have a few questions.

1.Is the point in witch Sam decides to become a normal girl the point when the loop is created?

2. If so, when does she archive the power to to chose her reality

[TheRealMistyBriarton]

To try and help me understand this multiple time line thing I have a few questions.

1.Is the point in witch Sam decides to become a normal girl the point when the loop is created?

2. If so, when does she archive the power to to chose her reality

1. When we free her from Agartha.

2. When we free her from Agartha. she starts the cycle over, Group 935 forms in WW2, Nacht through Buried happens, then Origins happens, we free Samantha, cycle starts over, etc.

[nayrcraig]

To try and help me understand this multiple time line thing I have a few questions.

1.Is the point in witch Sam decides to become a normal girl the point when the loop is created?

2. If so, when does she archive the power to to chose her reality

1. When we free her from Agartha.

2. When we free her from Agartha. she starts the cycle over, Group 935 forms in WW2, Nacht through Buried happens, then Origins happens, we free Samantha, cycle starts over, etc.

I'll assume they are the answers, and correct us if we are wrong MMX.

So I'm guessing you believe when Sam decides to return to being a girl then you don't believe that she changed reality during the white flash, but that she has been loving in the world a little while and is now telling the story of origins. Ok I can get that. I'll have to think about this a little more then

[MysteryMachineX]

To try and help me understand this multiple time line thing I have a few questions.

1.Is the point in witch Sam decides to become a normal girl the point when the loop is created?

2. If so, when does she archive the power to to chose her reality

The very definition of a time loop necessitates that you don't know exactly how it started. We were lucky in Mob of the Dead because he told us. Otherwise we would've never known.

For example: My future self on my 30th birthday gives me the plans to build a time machine. I work on the time machine for the next 20 years until I finally complete it. As soon as I am done building it, I use it to go back in time to give the plans to my past self.

Who invented the plans for the time machine? The answer is someone and no one. That's the paradox that is inherent in a time loop.

As for 2, that'd be when she is freed from Agartha, in the alternate reality, in 1918.

So I'm guessing you believe when Sam decides to return to being a girl then you don't believe that she changed reality during the white flash, but that she has been loving in the world a little while and is now telling the story of origins. Ok I can get that. I'll have to think about this a little more then

Can you try to word this another way?

[nayrcraig]

So I'm guessing you believe when Sam decides to return to being a girl then you don't believe that she changed reality during the white flash, but that she has been loving in the world a little while and is now telling the story of origins. Ok I can get that. I'll have to think about this a little more then

Can you try to word this another way?

Sure, that is a little unclear and I'm sure the typos don't help (I'm on a mobile device )

Maybe if I phrase it as another question it would make more sense, when Sam choses to go back to being a normal girl at what point in time does she chose to become human again?

(For example is it during the white flash after the game over screen, she creates the world and immediately appears talking the story to Eddie (but this wouldn't work because of the point I brought up)

If the bit in brackets doesn't make sense then ignore it and just answer the question, what I am trying to say just about makes sense in my head so it is hard to type it out

[MysteryMachineX]

So I'm guessing you believe when Sam decides to return to being a girl then you don't believe that she changed reality during the white flash, but that she has been loving in the world a little while and is now telling the story of origins. Ok I can get that. I'll have to think about this a little more then

Can you try to word this another way?

Sure, that is a little unclear and I'm sure the typos don't help (I'm on a mobile device )

Maybe if I phrase it as another question it would make more sense, when Sam choses to go back to being a normal girl at what point in time does she chose to become human again?

(For example is it during the white flash after the game over screen, she creates the world and immediately appears talking the story to Eddie (but this wouldn't work because of the point I brought up)

If the bit in brackets doesn't make sense then ignore it and just answer the question, what I am trying to say just about makes sense in my head so it is hard to type it out

Oh okay. It's at the white flash. But when she creates a new reality, it is a new timeline, forwards and backwards. She was still born at one point. She doesn't just pop into existence. But let me elaborate:

At the end of Origins, Samantha creates. Let's call that point A. At the beginning of the ending, she was in a new timeline, or old, depending on your perspective. Let's call that point B. There's still a lot that could've happened in between point A and B. At point B, she is doing the toy reenactment of point A. In short, the cutscene is not necessarily the exact moment when she popped into existence.

[nayrcraig]

Alright I think I get it better now, sorry about all the questions like that, I stated to feel like I was interragating you I just want to believe this idea is as airtight as you do if I am to believe it and esspecially if you are going to incorporate it in to you trilogy thread,

Since I now think I understand it and my point doesn't seem particularly valid any more I'll leave any further disscusion on this topic to when you are writing it for the trilogy thread. There are still lots of other things to disscus

[TheRealMistyBriarton]

Alright I think I get it better now, sorry about all the questions like that, I stated to feel like I was interragating you I just want to believe this idea is as airtight as you do if I am to believe it and esspecially if you are going to incorporate it in to you trilogy thread,

Since I now think I understand it and my point doesn't seem particularly valid any more I'll leave any further disscusion on this topic to when you are writing it for the trilogy thread. There are still lots of other things to disscus

It's alright man, I think we are all a bit confused right now. :lol:

[MysteryMachineX]

Definitely, nayrc and Misty. I do appreciate it though. :D

[TheRealMistyBriarton]

Definitely, nayrc and Misty. I do appreciate it though.

No problem MMX, ;)

[Dub Zee]

Im going against my own character and im going to help you with your theory and Samantha by giving you something else to add

The loading screens that form a book, children's comic book? Self made? is it where she gets her ideas for her "game"?

Your thoughts on the matter?

[MysteryMachineX]

I don't think a children's comic book would consist of an image of the black sun (Shangri-La). The comic book loading screen is an artistic style. Does it relate to the storyline? Maybe, maybe not. There's a bunch of theories on that. I'd prefer to stay neutral at this point. It could, it could not.

[captinslog]

Hey great thread here MMX & everyone , I'm getting some good reading here . Anyone have a picture of the figurine way off to the side that the dog knocks over ? Is he the *nod to (for example) the faceless or shadowy figure in most of the cut-scenes ?

Anybody seen the American TV show fringe ? The Watchers were an evolved race of humans from the future earth that observed key events in history and eventually wound up intervening in the matters of the past to ensure the future they knew remained intact .

They even had one episode where a physicist lost something dear to him , and he turned his body into flesh and machine and was able to move himself through time . Some of the details are fuzzy to me but I wouldn't put it past treyarch to use some of those fringe elements in their game .

Again I just wanted to spotlight if not for just a second, the unknown figurine in the room the rest is spit ballin thanks !

[Dub Zee]

Hey great thread here MMX & everyone , I'm getting some good reading here . Anyone have a picture of the figurine way off to the side that the dog knocks over ? Is he the *nod to (for example) the faceless or shadowy figure in most of the cut-scenes ?

Anybody seen the American TV show fringe ? The Watchers were an evolved race of humans from the future earth that observed key events in history and eventually wound up intervening in the matters of the past to ensure the future they knew remained intact .

They even had one episode where a physicist lost something dear to him , and he turned his body into flesh and machine and was able to move himself through time . Some of the details are fuzzy to me but I wouldn't put it past treyarch to use some of those fringe elements in their game .

Again I just wanted to spotlight if not for just a second, the unknown figurine in the room the rest is spit ballin thanks !

Great ideas, unfortunately ive freeze framed and that figure that gets knocked over is actually the moon astronaut zombie, that was why i can up with the idea of Samantha holding tank Dempsey, as i thought it was him who was knocked over originally

[MysteryMachineX]

Hey great thread here MMX & everyone , I'm getting some good reading here . Anyone have a picture of the figurine way off to the side that the dog knocks over ? Is he the *nod to (for example) the faceless or shadowy figure in most of the cut-scenes ?

Anybody seen the American TV show fringe ? The Watchers were an evolved race of humans from the future earth that observed key events in history and eventually wound up intervening in the matters of the past to ensure the future they knew remained intact .

They even had one episode where a physicist lost something dear to him , and he turned his body into flesh and machine and was able to move himself through time . Some of the details are fuzzy to me but I wouldn't put it past treyarch to use some of those fringe elements in their game .

Again I just wanted to spotlight if not for just a second, the unknown figurine in the room the rest is spit ballin thanks !

Thank you very much. I actually haven't watched Fringe. (Should I?) I often use references to other things to try to explain my thoughts, and those things are typically sci-fi in nature. I've done Bioshock, Fallout, and Doctor Who the most as analogies.

[captinslog]

Great ideas, unfortunately ive freeze framed and that figure that gets knocked over is actually the moon astronaut zombie, that was why i can up with the idea of Samantha holding tank Dempsey, as i thought it was him who was knocked over originally

Awe really ? Well that busted my conspiracy bubble, thanks for clearing that up for me . So he is wearing a space suit? lol I thought it looked like a dancing suit hahaha

Thank you very much. I actually haven't watched Fringe. (Should I?) I often use references to other things to try to explain my thoughts, and those things are typically sci-fi in nature. I've done Bioshock, Fallout, and Doctor Who the most as analogies.

Yes MMX it is right up your alley if sci-fi and such is your knack. There are elements that feel similar in nature to me in comparison to the Zombies story .

The Premise:

Fringe follows the casework of the Fringe Division, a Joint Federal Task Force supported primarily by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, which includes Agent Olivia Dunham; Dr. Walter Bishop, the archetypal mad scientist; and Peter Bishop, Walter's estranged son and jack-of-all-trades. They are supported by Phillip Broyles, the force's director, and Agent Astrid Farnsworth, who assists Walter in laboratory research. The Fringe Division investigates cases relating to fringe science, ranging from transhumanist experiments gone wrong to the prospect of a destructive technological singularity to a possible collision of two parallel universes. The Fringe Division's work often intersects with advanced biotechnology developed by a company called Massive Dynamic, founded by Walter's former partner, Dr. William Bell, and run by their common friend, Nina Sharp. The team is also watched silently by a group of bald, pale men who are called "Observers"

Funny now I see the two Doctors once colleagues similarities ,Walter Bishop ,William Bell , and our Edward Richtofen , Ludvig Maxis

FRINGE has Cortexiphan like Zombies Element 115, only made in a lab with unforeseen side effects: Capable of moving a person through parallel universes and other abilities

Cortexiphan is a nootropic drug developed by Walter Bishop and William Bell designed to enhance the mental abilities of the host. Initial exposure to the drug as an adult can be lethal, so trials were performed on children in at least two locations, including a day-care center in Jacksonville, Florida. A young Olivia Dunham was a part of the Jacksonville trials while she was in the care of her mother and abusive stepfather.

The exact response to Cortexiphan varies from child to child. Manifested psionic abilities include telepathy, mind control, pyrokinesis, telekinesis, and the ability to cross between universes. It is later shown that it also has slight regenerative abilities. Walter's tests, shown in the flashback episode "Subject 13", often required coaxing the child to demonstrate their powers through emotional stimuli; in the case of Olivia, he found it necessary to frighten the girl to bring about her powers.[5]

So yea without throwing this thread off too much there it is in a nut shell.

[MysteryMachineX]

Sounds very interesting captinslog. I'll watch it sometime. :)

[Infected115]

Great thread MMX, i first seen the End to Orgins.. i felt my brain fall out of my head.

after seeing your theory and reading this i understand it. the time loops reminds me of this episode of family guy where stewie and brian were blown out of existence to before "the big bang". he had to cause an explosion with his timepad, which turned out to be the big bang itself.

stewie later explains to brian that if the universe didnt create him, he couldnt have been blown out of existence to create the universe. thats kinda like wat happen in Orgins right?

[MysteryMachineX]

Great thread MMX, i first seen the End to Orgins.. i felt my brain fall out of my head.

after seeing your theory and reading this i understand it. the time loops reminds me of this episode of family guy where stewie and brian were blown out of existence to before "the big bang". he had to cause an explosion with his timepad, which turned out to be the big bang itself.

stewie later explains to brian that if the universe didnt create him, he couldnt have been blown out of existence to create the universe. thats kinda like wat happen in Orgins right?

Lol. Thank you. And that's got to be one of the wackiest analogies I've ever heard, but yes, it is like that. Actually there's a term for it. Ontological paradox.

[ETEl2NAL407]

I am checking out of this theory, MMX.

I don't want to poke holes or anything, because if I spend my time on this forum continually doing that, I would never be satisfied, since my theory of this storyline is basically that no more needs to be said. Since I don't want everyone to just stop, I'm going to be primarily focused on gameplay instead of story. (This actually frees my mental energies for the Olympics, so it's a good thing)

However, I will make one last statement since I feel I must refute this new theory you have which seems to try and cap things.

Ontological Paradox, better known as, "The Grandfather Paradox", but fits better for this theory as "The Chicken and The Egg".

Because there exists a theory that holds no paradox in explanation, I adopt that theory. If Samantha and Eddie are just playing a game with each other of make-believe, regardless of what's really going on in their reality, and that's an explanation of all Zombie maps we've experienced, there is no need for any further theorizing.

Though your theory is the most concise and evident, it has one fatal flaw that the "Make-Believe" theory does not...A Paradox. Although you may argue that the paradox spawns a cycle, we still end up with the question, "What came first? The Chicken or the Egg?" (The story as we knew it, or the story as Sam tells us)

I don't expect you to stop theorizing, nor do I even want that to happen...Any of you, not just MMX (though he usually has the best because he uses evidence to support his thoughts), but I did want to mention the core reason the "Make-Believe" theory works so well. It's simple and it leaves no time-loop, no paradox, and only speculation for what the children are going through at the end of the scene. It gets us back to a linear sense of time, where we can expect the future to have not ocurred yet and the past to remain as we remember it.

[MysteryMachineX]

Explain the last few lines of the ending.

[Waits]

No?

Okay then. I'll be getting back to work.