Does the Zombies team even take Zombies seriously anymore?

[DeathBringerZen]

I'd like to point out that there are some key differences between MotD and Origins. Especially in Map Layout. However weaponry and many other things differ too.

Origins is no more a MotD clone, than every BO1 zombies map was a clone of Der Riese.

Also, IT WAS NEVER STATED THAT THE CAMPAIGN TEAM MADE MotD OR Origns. That was a rumor that was started and never squashed. There is no official statements anywhere saying that our normal zombies team was not involved with the creation of these maps.

Not sure how accurate they are, but credit lists for each map can be found easily online, and the credit lists for say MotD and Tranzit have none of the same people doing the same jobs on either one.

Jason Blundell is also credited with head writer for the storyline for MotD and Origins. I also should note that Treyarch have themselves confirmed that maps have in the past been outsourced to other departments. If that is not enough proof that other people take on maps, then people are just not willing to be convinced.

[MegaAfroMan]

I'd appreciate links for the map credits, as well as the statement by Treyarch saying that they outsource maps to other departments. Saying evidence exists, and providing it are two entirely different creatures.

[Boom115]

You do realize origins is just a harder version of MotD right? That's where a good 70% of the mechanics came from...

People only seem to pick out the small similarities. The definitely floated some of the same ideas, but put there on twist on them. Which really can be said about every zombies map EVER.

Melee:

-Place a Spoon into a pool of blood an get kills with a specific weapon in a specific room.

-Fill chests up with zombies souls. Can also upgrade with elemental properties.

Tactical:

-Feed the heads of Cerberus; upgrade by getting kills on the golden gate bridge.

-Cleanse an ancient tablet in holy water

Special Weapon:

-Collect skulls using the previously acquired tomahawk. Upgrade using a buildable acid kit.

-Collect pieces scattered through out the map using several different methods. Solve various puzzles/challenges to upgrade.

Pack-a-Punch:

-Build a flippin plane!

-Keep six generators powered.

Hidden Areas:

-Build a plane and take the skies to only crash on a bridge.

-Locate a specific record to open a portal to another realm

Boss:

-Fast Zombie that can only be killed by headshots

-Fast Zombie that can only be killed by headshots; who can take way more damage and has a flamethrower and a scorpion claw.

True Similarities:

-Buildable screen

-Dynamic music

-Nolan North

Uhhh...

[83457]

Off topic: I'm a magic: the gathering player. And being a rules guru back during 5th edition and earlier, i can say the game got much better under 6th edition rules (adding the stack, eliminating interrupt windows). Some things get better with age.

On topic: i agree with tattoos point about the bank; 1. It just gets the tedious early stuff out of the way, 2. You don't have to use it.

Recently i set up buried on round 1, then stood in the courthouse from 2-40 with no downs, i think i was routed 3 times were i had to actually walk around the map and back to position.

But that isn't the only way to play.

--

Now i love playing origins, don't miss the bank. But what buried had that origins lacked was time saving.

I play solo usually. I have the first 3 steps to upgrading a staff done. Now i have to go to tcp, drop staff, just to head right back to the staff room, grab a staff, just to head back to tcp to begin upgrade. Holy tedium bat man.

Because of my obsessiveness, i refused to let round 3 end until i got the last wind staff piece. In just over 2 hours Thor came through exactly twice, both times, the wrong foot. That's really bad design.

The robots stepping on the zombies should not kill them, they should respawn. At first i thought: hey, the robot feet are a late game trap, but no, that strategy has proven to be crap, bringing us back to it being a bad idea, annoying, and tedious having your last zombie spawn in the footprint after you just tried so hard to keep him away from it.

Omg, zombies really need to stop respawning every 50 or less feet. I opine that they should never respawn while they are alive unless you teleport elsewhere. It has always been bad since it was first noticed. Terrible idea and executed about as badly as they could. I literally trained up round 4 yesterday, and as i was shooting them, the further ones were respawning right behind me and hitting me. That's terrible design. Coupled with the fact that the zombies are so quiet on origins, you can't even hear them behind you. This is different from every other bo2 map. Terrible, just terrible.

The zombies catch the tank as you get to where you need to jump off. That's terrible design. They tend to spawn and die in front of the tank. That's terrible design. I must mention just how buggy everything about the tank is: hang feet off of side and you're dragged backwards off of it? That's terrible design. Jump off of it to hit an invisible wall and fall along side if it, quite common. Does this make it challenging? Or is it mindless annoying tedium, punctuated with poorly executed programming? The latter... Not to mention that it's almost impossible to get yourself run over to the point you think that it's impossible, then it runs you over one day.

The point is that i hope in the next installment, should there be one, bad programming and annoying tedium aren't confused for 'challenge' or 'fun'.

I wish that origins had a tedium-free mode: staves are in the box, upgraded in pap, shield is built, costs 500, maxis drone is built, cost 1000. And you just play.

Waw, you got guns, perks and fought zombies. In bo2 (which i am overall happy with, despite the negativity which was expressed in this post), it's so much busy work, coupled with easy maps, that high rounds are meaningless.

I hit 35 and died in Tranzit. Every other map i have quit because it simply went on too long. Sometimes it's nice to just hit town, start on 20 and go to...um...town.

Edit: i wanted to touch on this part that i feel is lacking. The melee in origins. It comes too late or didn't last long enough. I'll often get the 4 staves upgraded by 10, having them 1-hit through 15 is a little weak, but realistically, getting one upgraded by 7, isn't too bad for melee. But the brofists? All that work, usually not doable until mid teens (yes, you can get it by 10, but unlikely and frustrating, not rewarding). So, typically had by 14, it is good only until 18-19. That sucks. But you can upgrade it. Unless you play solo. Oh sure, it can be done with about the same ease as putting your elbow in your ear.

[Stop Mocking Me0]

Now lets switch this list arround a bit:

Melee:

-Place a Spoon into a pool of blood an get kills with a specific weapon in a specific room.

-Fill chests up with zombies souls. Can also upgrade with elemental properties.

Tactical:

-Feed the heads of Cerberus; upgrade by getting kills on the golden gate bridge.

-Cleanse an ancient tablet in holy water

Special Weapon:

-Collect skulls using the previously acquired tomahawk. Upgrade using a buildable acid kit.

-Collect pieces scattered through out the map using several different methods. Solve various puzzles/challenges to upgrade.

Pack-a-Punch:

-Build a flippin plane!

-Keep six generators powered.

Hidden Areas:

-Build a plane and take the skies to only crash on a bridge.

-Locate a specific record to open a portal to another realm

Boss:

-Fast Zombie that can only be killed by headshots

-Fast Zombie that can only be killed by headshots; who can take way more damage and has a flamethrower and a scorpion claw.

True Similarities:

-Buildable screen

-Dynamic music

-Nolan North

Uhhh...

Melee weapon MOTD: Get kills in a specific area with a specific weapon.

Tactical weapon Origins: Get kills with a specific weapon in a specific area. Then move to do the same thing again.

Tactical weapon MOTD: Kill zombies in a few specific areas marked by odd entities that will disappear when full.

Melee weapon Origins: Kill zombies in a few specific areas marked by odd entities that will disappear when full.

Upgrade weapon MOTD: Build a device to help you!

Obtain weapon in Origins: Build it

Obtain weapon in MOTD: Complete relative tasks to obtain your new WW for free!

Upgrade weapon in Origins: Complete tasks to charge your weapon to max capacity so it upgrade's it's self.

Bosses MOTD: Turn off perks, releases huge guy with a weapon to attack you up front, may disappear and re-appear if you're too far away.

Bosses OriginsL:Turn off perks, releases huge guy with a weapon to attack you up front, may disappear and re-apear if you're too far away...

And to MAM who said every map is like der reise... You know what I mean, there is a significant diffrence between der reise and moon, unlike MOTD and origins...

[AwesomeSauce117]

I have tried to follow this discussion, but I struggle with it.

For me Origins is the absolute ultimate zombie map. From a mechanics point of view.

I don't know who made it, but they did an incredible job.

Maybe the story wasn't as good, I don't know. If it was the original team, they hit it out of the park with Origins. If it wasn't, then whoever they are they are needed for Bo3.

You do realize origins is just a harder version of MotD right? That's where a good 70% of the mechanics came from...

Yeah. Completely agree with you there. Practicly the same boss, (this is debatable, but panzer is like Brutus 2.0. Plus, it's the same way to kill him.) Same feel, same look, same perk. They just really tweaked it. Retexture, new characters, new quotes,and boom, origins.

[Rissole25]

Mocking if you're going to say Origins is just like MotD, than you may as well do that for Ascension which is just like Der Riese.

3 Teleporters/Lunar Landers that take you back to Spawn.

^ Said Teleporters/Landers must be used to open Pack-a-Punch.

Once PaP is open, it always stays open in the same spot.

Wonder Weapons that take out a full horde.

Tactical Grenades that attract and kill zombies.

Boss Rounds.

Similar layouts.

There's a reason most people consider both these maps the best.

Also, when you simplify BoomByeYeah's list like that, of course you're going to get similarities. But not just those maps, nearly every map involves a variation of go there, kill in this spot/with this weapon, roaming boss, rinse and repeat.

[Stop Mocking Me0]

Mocking if you're going to say Origins is just like MotD, than you may as well do that for Ascension which is just like Der Riese.

3 Teleporters/Lunar Landers that take you back to Spawn. Note: Teleporters only take you back to spawn, Lunars are more random

^ Said Teleporters/Landers must be used to open Pack-a-Punch. Viable point

Once PaP is open, it always stays open in the same spot. Same can be said for buried, and origins

Wonder Weapons that take out a full horde.Can be said about any map with a good WW

Tactical Grenades that attract and kill zombies. -Can be said about any map with monkeys

Boss Rounds. -Custom tranzit survival, die rise, five, shinonuma, kino

Similar layouts. Not at all, ascension contains many more larger areas, but I can't use this as a valid point in my argument for the fact origins's layout is the same in comparison with MOTD...

There's a reason most people consider both these maps the best.

Also, when you simplify BoomByeYeah's list like that, of course you're going to get similarities. But not just those maps, nearly every map involves a variation of go there, kill in this spot/with this weapon, roaming boss, rinse and repeat.

Yeah, but most maps are mis-matched, there may be in (made up map: Mock) Mock: a roaming boss, traps, and disabling zombie types which relate to COTD,verrućt, and shangri la for example, but it's new because it's a combined sourse of all these maps...

Origins relates DIRRECTLY to MOTD in too many ways IMO to not be called out on...

[Rissole25]

The Lunar Lander always goes back to Spawn unless you take it from Spawn itself or if someone calls it somewhere else while you're on it.

I'll agree there are some similarities. But it's not just solely from MotD. TranZit plays a big part as well.

Buildable Wonder Weapon/s, Zombie Shield, Vehicles, "Seperate" Areas, Multiple Enemies than just a Zombie and Boss, stuff on the ground that affects you (Lava/Mud), Semtex.

But all that doesn't necessarily mean a bad thing. They might've liked past ideas from maps and thought of re-using them or improving on them. Evidently it's just the eye of the beholder. You think Origins is 70% Mob of the Dead, I think it's a culmination of everything they've learned so far with Black Ops 2, stuck it together, and add it's own unique thing.

[MegaAfroMan]

I'm sorry Mocking, but you are using examples that are sketchier than the one's you're claiming don't work.

I really can't take you seriously. Yes there are similarities, no not anywhere near enough to claim origins is MotD 2.0.

I firmly would say there are no more similarities between Origins and MotD, than there are between Most BO1 Maps, and Der Riese.

Quite frankly, until BO2, all the zombie maps had nearly the exact same mechanics.

-Super WW available in Box

-Super Tacticals in Box (2 for all maps after Ascension)

-Some form alternate zombie (hellounds, Theif, Monkeys, or, george, astro, napalm)

-A few traps (Most, but not all)

-A few transports (teleporters, landers, ziplines, minecarts, launch pads)

- the O4 Perks + Mule kick, then adding IN ORDER, Stamin-up, PHD, and Deadshot. (Ascension as the exception without Double tap)

-A pack a punch (All though it varied between the maps as a whole, several maps individually are very similar: Kino is similar to FIVE, it is a room teleported to, where you have about 30 zombie free seconds. Der Riese and Ascension are practically identical. Activate the 3 transports to unlock the pack-a-punch for the remainder of the game, Shangri-La and moon are similar, as they require all players to stand in a designated spot, to go to the pack-a-punch, where they are still in some danger.)

-Practically the same wall weapons. Other than losing the MP40 in some maps, I'm pretty positive BO1 maps all basically have smg's, one burst rifle, one assult rifle, olympia, stakeout, and M14.

-A power switch. (Shangri-La having 2 right next to each other I believe, without any actual difference.)

BO1 really only changes the unique zombie slightly, replaces the WW (sometimes), replaces a tactical (Some times), and gives a different map layout.

Moon, was the only one to truly add new features with NML as a seperate game mode, and the hacker/excavators as an additional objective.

BO2, kept most of this, sure, but each map has had more radical changes than what happened for any BO1 map (Besides Moon)

Tranzit was MASSIVE. The Bus is unique. Completely. No equivalent exists in zombies. The tank is close, but not close enough.

Die Rise, more droping than previous maps. The elavators introduced a form of uncontrolable short term travel and moving perks. No equivalent exists.

MotD. Plenty. New method of downing. Completely unique tactical. Convertable weapon. Secret Meele weapon.new method of powering perks, and a few door ways.

Buried, Flying WW. Time bomb. These are unique in arguable ways. Are they more unique than previous WWs? I'd say so. They affect the way you play and move about the map to a large degree. Also, chalk outline positioning is big here. The idot, is really just an AI version of Hacker, so I don't count him, gut he does add some features hacker didnt have. This map however gave up the move mobility. There arent any other maps where jumping is so useful. In BO1, I don't recall ANYWHERE Jumping could get you, that walking couldnt get you in practically the same amount of time. In TranZit, there was maybe 1 required jump. Die rise had some, but they were more drops. Except for the cross map flings with trample steam. MotD didnt have any that I can think of.

Origins, unique transporter. The tank is a hybrid between the lander/minecart, and the bus. semi-equivalents do exist. 4 WW, all upgradable through a non-PaP means is completely unique.

In fact a weapon upgraded without pap is unique. The Acid Gat is aconverted form of the blundergat, because you can still have the sweeper as the PaP bluder. The Sweeper and the Vitrolic are completely different beasts. They are Not at all similar. Origins also has a rather 7nique buildable system for the staffs with the records and the phonograph, but it is similar to building the sliquifier I suppose. The Generators are unique. The crazy place is unique. We haven't had a dimension with 4 different entraces and exists before. It's like a teleporter that wyou chose the exit point for. The Maxis Drone is unique. The melee is unusual, as I do believe it can strike mulitple zombies, but that is minor. The method of obtaining the Melle is unusual. The Challenges are unusual and unique. The robots, are completely unique. we haven't ever had recurring map hazards, let alone ones that you can climb inside for a brief break from attack. Digging is unique. Wunderfizz is semi-unique. box weapons being wall guns with attachments is unique.

This list isn't including that each map had more than one unique non Wonder weapon, and often different wall weapons as well. (Die Rise and buried had the most similar weapon-set with only the Pyton v Remmington Army I believe as unique)

I willi admit Origins is the least unique, but it is still many time more unique than all BO1 maps prior to moon. Origins is basically the culmination of everything they think they did right, plus a few added features they thought we'd like too. And they did a damn good job of it. it's layout is near perfect. A little bit of everything is available. it is fun, it has many objectives, yet it can be very tough. It isn't a cakewalk to get to fifty, and it certainly isn't easy to get to 100. It has the best of everything (or so I believe).

Quite frankly, I just don't think you're willing to open your eyes and let go of this one (percieved) point of complaint. I don't think any argument could sway you, and as such, I really don't think it is fair for you to engage others on the topic.

[Stop Mocking Me0]

It's my opinion I will express it as such... And it's harly close-minded to say that two maps are umbeleivably similar...

Most of your argument is just non-squiter and red-herring, not relating anything to the topic btw... Comparing non-topic maps to origins and tranzit maps to nothing to do with origins...

We're seeing this as two diffrent things:

-The two maps are umbeleivably similar -(me)

-The maps are all similar-(you guys)

-but these particular two are the same in many more ways then normal (me)

-The maps are all similar!-(you guys)

And to say I shouldn't engage others is almost the compleate opposite point of this thread: To discuss and argue if the zombies team is "even trying" anymore...

[MegaAfroMan]

It isn't non sequitar, because of course the two maps are similar. The point is, ALL the maps are similar. You have been given many reasons why these two particular maps are no more similar than any other maps.

If you believe "that the zombies team isn't even trying anymore", based on the similarities between Origins and MotD, the why didn't you hold this belief two years ago with Ascension? Because clearly they weren't trying there. Der Riese and Ascension are extremely similar maps. At least as similar as MotD and Origins.

So either, they weren't trying at all after World at War was finished, or they are trying now.

You cannot logically ignore one, and preach the other when looking at those two pairs of maps.

To make a point on that which map am I talking about?

You spawn in a room with 4 barriers and two potential exits, each going down slightly different paths until converging at the power location. Speaking of power, we have to get there. But be careful! once every 5 or so rounds, a different type of enemy will come and wreak havoc, but if we survive we'll get a max ammo! So after the power, a few other objectives might include unlocking the packapunch by using 3 different stranports around the map to go back to spawn. If you're lucky, by this time you'll have gotten the always insta kill WW out of the box, so you can upgrade it. I'm so glad I'm Nikolai, I love hearing about his drunken misdeeds.

The Zombies team did the exact same thing twice.

Sadly, I actually think there are fewer nit picky details here, than in yours. Because yes you get a weapon for killing zombies, but a melee and a tactical are two etirely different things. Yes there is a strong boss, and a shutdown boss, but they aren't combined into one guy anymore. The panzer is similar to a mech brutus, but the agarthans that shut down the generators only share the region lock effect with him. To claim that they are the same, or even similar based off of this, would be like saying the Jumping Jacks and George are they same, because both can give you a perk bottle drop.

As I said, either, the zombies team never was trying, or they are still trying now. If you decide that they never were trying, then why do you play the games, and come here exactly?

[Stop Mocking Me0]

Look, I'm doing the opposite of that, if anything Im showing how the so-called camp. team isn't trying...

And look at ascension vs der reise, its a completely different game. In both the metaphorical and literal sense.

This argument is going nowhere, all Im getting here is throwing: These maps are the same vs all maps are the same, like tossing soap into acid.... I still firmly believe that MOTD and Origins are practically just the same map but harder, which one may be able to pull of between games, but not only two DLCs apart....

It's the difference between repetitiveness and nostalgia... But, Im done arguing, good night....

[Tasha]

I do have to say that I like this more 'serious' approach to the characters & overall story (ala Mob and Origins) a lot more than the 'comic' approach we've seen in TranZit / Die Rise / Buried.

- Heather