JZ Tweet

[FatedTitan]

You ever get that feeling that everything you thought was real....was.

https://twitter.com/ZielinskiJimmy/stat ... 3727068160

[MegaAfroMan]

I'm probably jumping to massive conclusions here, but this just screams to me:

"Guys, the cut scene does not mean the last 16 maps were just a child's imagined game."

However, JZ never operates in a direct manner, sooo, good luck CoDz.

[MysteryMachineX]

I'm probably jumping to massive conclusions here, but this just screams to me:

"Guys, the cut scene does not mean the last 16 maps were just a child's imagined game."

However, JZ never operates in a direct manner, sooo, good luck CoDz.

Lol. I agree.

[Dub Zee]

Its because everyone screaming because it was "all the imagination of a child"

Gotta love Jimmy

[AlphaSnake]

Why can't people see that we've just gone full circle from Black Ops?

This scene takes us to just before Kino does it not?

Now we know how it starts, will we be returning to the future in Black Ops 3?

Regards Alpha.

[InfestLithium]

Why can't people see that we've just gone full circle from Black Ops?

This scene takes us to just before Kino does it not?

Now we know how it starts, will we be returning to the future in Black Ops 3?

Regards Alpha.

If you can determine where prior to Kino der Toten, perhaps then it can fully be a cycle. A siren blares, the kids must go into the basement, and then what?

[Flammenwerfer]

But, the zombies story didn't START at Kino...

[TheBSZombie]

Haven't zombies been around since at least the Templar times? Just buried where no one knew about them or the people that did know about them were silenced by the zombies).

But yeah jimmy, thx for being clear for once :lol:

[MegaAfroMan]

I'm surprised this got buried so quickly. You'd think it'd be bringing about debate left and right...

[yourmapper]

Like Vahn said before, Origins is one person's take on what happened.

Origins is just Sam's exaggerated, fantasy-embelished recollection of what happened.

What really happened is Maxis was excavating 115 during WW1 and released some zombies. No giant diesel robots, no staves of power, no big daddies, he didn't get his brain removed by Eddie, etc.

[MysteryMachineX]

Haven't zombies been around since at least the Templar times? Just buried where no one knew about them or the people that did know about them were silenced by the zombies).

But yeah jimmy, thx for being clear for once

No, actually. The Templars weren't necessarily zombies back in medieval times but rather the 115 is reanimated the long-dead bodies of the Templars. However, then there's the Agarthan zombies which probably were zombies for a really long time...

[MegaAfroMan]

I really don't know if it's fair to take Vahn's quote at face value, as if I remember correctly, he got cut off immediately after saying that.

We have NO idea what followed that particular phrase. Context is everything.

The commonly known quote from Robert Frost

"Two roads diverged in a road, and I took the one less traveled and that has made all the difference"

Is usually associated with doing the right thing, and/or the harder thing, having to work for a better outcome.

This is completely wrong when you add in the rest of the poem.

Look it up. The first stanza and second stanza detail many times that both the roads were exactly the same, and that he was sorry he couldn't do both. Neither road was the "better" one or even less traveled.

In actuality the bit most commonly quoted is preceeded by:

"I shall be telling this with a sigh, somewhere ages and ages hence:"

Which basically says that this is what he thinks he will say decades from then as an old man.

Then, ages and ages after he first walked one of those two exactly identical roads, and only then, will he say "I-- I took the road less traveled, and that has made all the difference"

The moral isn't "do the right thing", it is "people want to look back, and believe they did the right thing, when in reality, things happen, and often they don't matter or make any difference."

THIS demonstrates the importance of context.

So if I'm wrong about Vahn being cut off immediately after uttering that controversial quote, then I'd like to be corrected, but if I'm right, then don't make any judgements off of a contextless quote.

[DeathBringerZen]

Why can't people see that we've just gone full circle from Black Ops?

This scene takes us to just before Kino does it not?

Now we know how it starts, will we be returning to the future in Black Ops 3?

Regards Alpha.

It cannot be taking us full circle, because the bedroom is strewn with map memorabilia. How can we go on to play as the O4 or N4 when they were in toy form in Samantha's bedroom.

It WAS all a child's game, and this is Jimmy's way of trying to either troll us, or backtrack on the sequence after seeing the majorities response to it.

[MysteryMachineX]

Why can't people see that we've just gone full circle from Black Ops?

This scene takes us to just before Kino does it not?

Now we know how it starts, will we be returning to the future in Black Ops 3?

Regards Alpha.

It cannot be taking us full circle, because the bedroom is strewn with map memorabilia. How can we go on to play as the O4 or N4 when they were in toy form in Samantha's bedroom.

It WAS all a child's game, and this is Jimmy's way of trying to either troll us, or backtrack on the sequence after seeing the majorities response to it.

Yeah because a child's role model being a masochistic, homosexual, schizophrenic, homicidal, omnipotent, surgeon Nazi is the most realistic conclusion. =_=

[RDB]

Haven't zombies been around since at least the Templar times? Just buried where no one knew about them or the people that did know about them were silenced by the zombies).

But yeah jimmy, thx for being clear for once

Pssh, they've been around since the times where the Vril bros still dwelled at Shangri-La.

[KeredNomrah69]

I'm surprised this got buried so quickly. You'd think it'd be bringing about debate left and right...

I think the reason this and a lot of other things aren't getting discussed in detail is because of where they have led us. I myself focused on the game mechanics itself more then story but it kept me happy knowing there was this deep, intricate, realistic and historically-based story that tied everything together.

Yes Ray-guns aren't real, yes we don't have a moon base or teleporters. However, technology has a way of altering everything and if we HAD discovered something like 115 with all of it's properties then it was easy to imagine the research projects and weapon development especially by groups like the Nazi's who were completely into that back then.

Now we're watching two kids playing with dolls.....wtf? I don't really care what the explanation is for it or even if it ties in everything as some twisted alternate reality mental power crap. Instead, more confusion, less facts and an ending worse then Lost (which was loved but now made into massive jokes constantly). I seriously do believe in alternative realities now so I can hope that somewhere out there Treyarch might've got it right.

[PINNAZ]

The End Cinematic IS the "Beginning of the End"

[ETEl2NAL407]

This tweet doesn't necessarily have to be about Zombies...

Then again, I wouldn't put it past Treyarch to backpedal on this ending because of the initial reactions.

I was probably one of the only people that were sublime when I saw this ending because it meant to me, "Now I don't have to worry about the holes in the story that make it seem like it was all thrown together and made up as it went along."

Most people had the reaction that this ending was a slap in their face due to all the theorizing and compiling they've done.

I can understand that feeling, but ultimately this is Treyarchs story and I think they made a great choice in ending it this way to wipe the slate clean and explain all the holes (basically blame it Samantha's imagination). Now they can make an airtight story from this point.

This is why I was so happy about the ending and also why I think trying to explain things further is futile. I just want this to be the ending, but again, I wouldn't put it past Treyarch to scrap this ending because of the feedback they're receiving...*sigh*

[DeathBringerZen]

Yeah because a child's role model being a masochistic, homosexual, schizophrenic, homicidal, omnipotent, surgeon Nazi is the most realistic conclusion. =_=

Yeah, I am as confused about the ending as most people, but I am not going to try and convince myself that there is more to it just so I can keep debating until the next game comes out.

Most people take it for what it is, and the only thing that gives us hope is Samantha's last sentence she utters before leaving the room.

Still though, the figurines, toys and memorabilia was there for all to see, so are you telling me to just ignore all of that?

[MysteryMachineX]

Yeah because a child's role model being a masochistic, homosexual, schizophrenic, homicidal, omnipotent, surgeon Nazi is the most realistic conclusion. =_=

Yeah, I am as confused about the ending as most people, but I am not going to try and convince myself that there is more to it just so I can keep debating until the next game comes out.

Most people take it for what it is, and the only thing that gives us hope is Samantha's last sentence she utters before leaving the room.

Still though, the figurines, toys and memorabilia was there for all to see, so are you telling me to just ignore all of that?

If you want to take it for what it is AND explain the toys, then click the link in my signature.

Zombies have always been about theories. The moment you stop, you aren't a true fan and don't even deserve to play it.

[DeathBringerZen]

If you want to take it for what it is AND explain the toys, then click the link in my signature.

Zombies have always been about theories. The moment you stop, you aren't a true fan and don't even deserve to play it.

I will check out your thread and add a contribution were viable.

I think your last paragraph is debatable though. The ending definitely seems to be a foregone conclusion, that the Dev's are trying to put an end to this current storyline, by drawing a line under it, and now realizing their mistake, are trying to backtrack on the whole fiasco.

Of course, this is just my opinion on it, and I do not really want to put much time into debating on this ending, as I have taken it for what I believe it is.

This does not mean I am a true fan though. I have been playing this game mode since I first completed W@W, and have invested just the same amount of time and money into it as most of the users on here, so to be told I am not a true fan is a little insulting.

The ending can be taken either way, and if some choose to take it as a 'child's game', so be it. It does not mean they are not true fans. It means they are realists.

[ETEl2NAL407]

Zombies have always been about theories. The moment you stop, you aren't a true fan and don't even deserve to play it.

This is only your opinion and honestly, a very arrogant one.

The hidden story within Zombies is what it's truly all about and yes because of how cryptic this story was, it demanded theorizing, but to say fans that don't theorize or stop are not deserving of being fans is such an elitist and snobby attitude, it really makes me sick.

It's the same type of thinking as a billionaire who condescends to someone as being less than them because they don't drive a maserati or because they don't eat caviar. Tastes are different from individual to individual. Just because I have different tastes than you does not at all make one of us better or worse than the other, it purely makes us different.

[AlphaSnake]

Right.

Kino der Toten predates Der Riese.

This is where Sams room can be seen.

This is where Maxis worked on 115 projects during WWII.

This is where we enter the story from Black Ops.

Sam is playing with her toys when the first out break of WWII starts.

Once she ended up in the MPD her ideas from playing zombies are now becoming a reality as she is in control of the zombies.

The story of Origins must have been told by Maxis as it is impossible for Sam to have experienced this first hand right?

The MPD was not intended for Samantha.

It was meant for Richtofen.

What we are seeing is Sam imagination given form.

Then again once Sam is within the MPD she shares Richtofen's mind, she knows everything he knows.

Also once inside the MPD Sam becomes omnipotent & omnipresent, everywhere at all times. So she could in theory go back to that time herself.

Also please remember the perspective of the story:

TS701bMxmSI

The voice in the beginning is the Demonic Sam. It is from her perspective, not the Sam we see in the final cut scene.

I refuse to believe all this is in the imagination of a child.

Regards Alpha.

[MegaAfroMan]

Agreed.

I believe to poor Samantha, real and imaginary aren't easily distinguishable anymore.

I mean, when you're omnipotent and everything you want to make happen, happens, it's got to be tough separating what's real and what might still just be a thought.

I hold that if the cutscene isn't a litteral loop to the beginning of the cycle, it still doesn't mean this was just a kid playing dolls the whole time.

I mean, human existance is what a God playing with dolls would look like, wouldn't it?

Real people, real places, real zombies, they all seem like dolls or play toys to a Child-God.

[Shooter]

Whoa whoa whoa, all of the storyline was just a girl's imagination? Origins was just a fake story being told by Samantha? Blasphemy!

It's become clear after playing Origins that the map, just like all the other ones, did occur. The story being told by Samantha is not from her imagination, but a story she has experienced first hand.

The ending cutscene does in fact end our story of Sam, Richtofen, Maxis, and the O3. The scene depicts what has happened after she is freed from Agartha in Origins. It's important to remember Mob of the Dead here. Just think of it like this, all the maps have been one long cycle, until we go back to the point in which it all started to break the cycle.

History has been changed. Richtofen never works in Group 935, he never betrays Sam and sends her to the Moon, the world is never destroyed, etc and we all live happily ever after.

At first I hated the ending cutscene, but now that I actually understand it, it's pretty badass.

Oh, and it looks like that rat Edward finally got what was coming to him.