JZ Tweet

[INeedVodka115]

Honestly I will just wait and see what happens. After the ending I don't even want to theorize what's going to happen anymore, i'm just going to wait and see what happens.

[DeathBringerZen]

Honestly I will just wait and see what happens. After the ending I don't even want to theorize what's going to happen anymore, i'm just going to wait and see what happens.

^This^

Everyone has their own interpretation of what the ending means, but no one can claim to know for a fact, so like you, I will bide my time.

I am not trying to stop people theorizing on it though. As I said, everyone has their own spin on it.

I am sure the next zombie outing will be amazing nonetheless.

[Shooter]

Honestly I will just wait and see what happens. After the ending I don't even want to theorize what's going to happen anymore, i'm just going to wait and see what happens.

For some of us deep into the Zombies story, waiting is simply not an option. ;)

[Dub Zee]

I really dont get why its such a huge thing, i mean, its ORIGINS, a precursor.

If it was the end they would have put the origins end cinematic on the end of Buried.

Regardless of alternate realities, mental instabilities, god complex psychopathic little children, it still comes down to it being just the start. As the map name suggests

[ETEl2NAL407]

Whoa whoa whoa, all of the storyline was just a girl's imagination? Origins was just a fake story being told by Samantha? Blasphemy!

It's become clear after playing Origins that the map, just like all the other ones, did occur. The story being told by Samantha is not from her imagination, but a story she has experienced first hand.

The ending cutscene does in fact end our story of Sam, Richtofen, Maxis, and the O3. The scene depicts what has happened after she is freed from Agartha in Origins. It's important to remember Mob of the Dead here. Just think of it like this, all the maps have been one long cycle, until we go back to the point in which it all started to break the cycle.

History has been changed. Richtofen never works in Group 935, he never betrays Sam and sends her to the Moon, the world is never destroyed, etc and we all live happily ever after.

At first I hated the ending cutscene, but now that I actually understand it, it's pretty badass.

Oh, and it looks like that rat Edward finally got what was coming to him.

This just creates a paradox.

You're basically saying that once Sam was sent to the Moon via MDT, she became omnipresent and decided to go back to the "Origin" and influence the O4+Maxis into freeing her from Agartha, then once that was done, she was transported back in time to a time prior to her being transported into Agartha via the MDT and that Richtofen also came back with her as a child?

But, if she was successful, she was never transported in the first place, thus she would have no way nor reason to influence people in the past to free her since she was never imprisoned. Also, how did Richtofen magically be transported as well?

Paradoxes abound whenever any other theory besides the "entirety of our story is a game between two children" theory is entertained.

[mmm chocolate]

Has this been mentioned anywhere?

I know theres better threads to add this to, but has anyone agreed that the zombies storyline, and the ending cutscene is a metaphor? (I did read someone post that on here)...

...but has anyone made the connection that its a metaphor for video games being 'for children'?

[Shooter]

Whoa whoa whoa, all of the storyline was just a girl's imagination? Origins was just a fake story being told by Samantha? Blasphemy!

It's become clear after playing Origins that the map, just like all the other ones, did occur. The story being told by Samantha is not from her imagination, but a story she has experienced first hand.

The ending cutscene does in fact end our story of Sam, Richtofen, Maxis, and the O3. The scene depicts what has happened after she is freed from Agartha in Origins. It's important to remember Mob of the Dead here. Just think of it like this, all the maps have been one long cycle, until we go back to the point in which it all started to break the cycle.

History has been changed. Richtofen never works in Group 935, he never betrays Sam and sends her to the Moon, the world is never destroyed, etc and we all live happily ever after.

At first I hated the ending cutscene, but now that I actually understand it, it's pretty badass.

Oh, and it looks like that rat Edward finally got what was coming to him.

This just creates a paradox.

You're basically saying that once Sam was sent to the Moon via MDT, she became omnipresent and decided to go back to the "Origin" and influence the O4+Maxis into freeing her from Agartha, then once that was done, she was transported back in time to a time prior to her being transported into Agartha via the MDT and that Richtofen also came back with her as a child?

But, if she was successful, she was never transported in the first place, thus she would have no way nor reason to influence people in the past to free her since she was never imprisoned. Also, how did Richtofen magically be transported as well?

Paradoxes abound whenever any other theory besides the "entirety of our story is a game between two children" theory is entertained.

Lol, have you not completed the Origins EE? Maxis says at the end that the paradox must be resolved before flying into the light. The paradox was solved.

[ETEl2NAL407]

This from the same brain that had no idea Samantha was his daughter? Alluva sudden he absolutely believes her and understands the paradox inherit with freeing her from Agartha at this time when she hasn't even been conceived yet?

If that's the case, Treyarch hasn't solved anything, they've just completely wrecked it all and it is a crap story that way, whereas if everything was in her imagination, it's beautiful and airtight. I suppose the question becomes, can the minds at Treyarch truly handle this story?

EDIT: Yes I have completed the EE, and please don't avoid my specific questions.

[AlphaSnake]

I really dont get why its such a huge thing, i mean, its ORIGINS, a precursor.

If it was the end they would have put the origins end cinematic on the end of Buried.

Regardless of alternate realities, mental instabilities, god complex psychopathic little children, it still comes down to it being just the start. As the map name suggests

Spot on.

I think in the next chapter we will go back to what happens after Moon. There is no closure from Moon.

Only more questions.

Since we have now seen the beginning we must continue forward.

There are still many places we haven't visited yet like Paris & Tunguska.

The option is always open to expand on the leads from past maps.

What happens to Samuel & Richtofen in the same body?

This is far from over.

Lessons have been learned for BO3.

Regards Alpha.

[FatedTitan]

I have to argue that I believe Origins is completely a made up story. I can see the end cutscene being the beginning of the zombies storyline, but Origins itself is a load of crap.

There's just WAY too many inconsistencies in Origins that don't make sense going into our other maps. We know Maxis had a child. He talks about Samantha being his child with his late wife on Moon.

I will give credence to the fact that Maxis seems to know of some power Samantha has, as he tells her to kill them all, but that doesn't deny the fact of talking about a mother and him being her father, which Origins denies.

We know Maxis had a body. How else could he do all of the things he clearly does in the radios? It's no coincidence the the first time we hear Maxis' voice as a robot is on Moon in the computer. Before that, he was NEVER seen as any part of electronics. I'll also use a radio from Moon to support this, as we can hear him walking and shutting a door near the end of the radio.

And to AlphaSnake, the voice that is heard in the trailer did sound like a chain smoker, but it was updated and changed to the little girl in the cutscene in game. I believe we have to take the in game cutscene for more worth than Treyarch's chain-smoking 9 year old.

At the end of it all, we have an opening cutscene, that has the voice of a little girl talking saying "Long ago..." as she is telling a story. Then we go into the map. Then we have an ending cutscene that has her concluding the story. Origins was all just a story her and Eddie played that day. It is NOT canon, besides the fact that they played that story out in their heads. And it is this fact that makes me question how much of the information in Origins can actually be taken as factual information. How much were the devs trying to give information for and how much was just for fun factor based on Sam's imagination?

It honestly makes complete sense. How do you bring the O4 back in the last map pack without starting an entirely new story arc? You give them a prequel. How can you do that? Well let's just set them in WWI and mess with fans a bit and make it a story told by Sam.

[ETEl2NAL407]

Origins was all just a story her and Eddie played that day. It is NOT canon, besides the fact that they played that story out in their heads. And it is this fact that makes me question how much of the information in Origins can actually be taken as factual information. How much were the devs trying to give information for and how much was just for fun factor based on Sam's imagination?

It honestly makes complete sense. How do you bring the O4 back in the last map pack without starting an entirely new story arc? You give them a prequel. How can you do that? Well let's just set them in WWI and mess with fans a bit and make it a story told by Sam.

I disagree with the underlined statements.

Why?

Because it seems that you believe Origins is an isolated event and this is the only thing that was imagined.

You're close to understanding the truth, but have you forgotten the dialogue of the cutscene between Samantha and Eddie?

Eddie alludes to all the elements we've seen in the other maps. If Origins is isolated, how did Eddie "predict" those elements in other maps?

The Tranzit bus is a toy, the N4 are toys, a zombie from MotD and Buried are there. In a literary sense they're foreshadowing with this cutscene, but we've already seen what they're foreshadowing, thus they are instead explaning where those maps came from and in this case, Eddie's Turn. If the bulk of BO:2 maps are confirmed to be imagined by Eddie and we can surely know that Origins was imagined by Samantha, doesn't it make better sense to include it ALL as imagination? After all, how could some maps be real and others be imagined?

[FatedTitan]

Origins was all just a story her and Eddie played that day. It is NOT canon, besides the fact that they played that story out in their heads. And it is this fact that makes me question how much of the information in Origins can actually be taken as factual information. How much were the devs trying to give information for and how much was just for fun factor based on Sam's imagination?

It honestly makes complete sense. How do you bring the O4 back in the last map pack without starting an entirely new story arc? You give them a prequel. How can you do that? Well let's just set them in WWI and mess with fans a bit and make it a story told by Sam.

I disagree with the underlined statements.

Why?

Because it seems that you believe Origins is an isolated event and this is the only thing that was imagined.

You're close to understanding the truth, but have you forgotten the dialogue of the cutscene between Samantha and Eddie?

Eddie alludes to all the elements we've seen in the other maps. If Origins is isolated, how did Eddie "predict" those elements in other maps?

The Tranzit bus is a toy, the N4 are toys, a zombie from MotD and Buried are there. In a literary sense they're foreshadowing with this cutscene, but we've already seen what they're foreshadowing, thus they are instead explaning where those maps came from and in this case, Eddie's Turn. If the bulk of BO:2 maps are confirmed to be imagined by Eddie and we can surely know that Origins was imagined by Samantha, doesn't it make better sense to include it ALL as imagination? After all, how could some maps be real and others be imagined?

Yes it does, but JZ seems to be pointing that it isn't all fake.

And something else I thought about after I posted last night. If you disagree about Origins being made up, look at the end cutscene. Eddie says "That's not how it goes!" She's obviously telling a story. She's not recollecting on an event she experienced.

[ETEl2NAL407]

I think taking as fact that this tweet is related to the specific issue at hand is stretching a bit too far.

The quote by Eddie is this "You're getting everything wrong. Their eyes should be blue."

He states shortly after that "...Girls don't know enough about zombies."

He doesn't know more about the story than what Samantha has told him, so he can't be stating that what she's saying isn't factual, instead his disagreeable statements are illustrating that he would perceive the game/story to go a different way. He's just generally speaking.

If you were to replace zombies with cars, it makes more sense.

Imagine Samantha tells the story of the pixar film, "Cars", but Eddie would tell the story of the film, "Fast and Furious". Both are about cars, but one is a bit more fantastical than the other and seems more feminine. That's really all his statements are saying...

"You're a girl, you don't know about zombies and warfare, you know about barbies and gossip."

[Shooter]

This from the same brain that had no idea Samantha was his daughter? Alluva sudden he absolutely believes her and understands the paradox inherit with freeing her from Agartha at this time when she hasn't even been conceived yet?

If that's the case, Treyarch hasn't solved anything, they've just completely wrecked it all and it is a crap story that way, whereas if everything was in her imagination, it's beautiful and airtight. I suppose the question becomes, can the minds at Treyarch truly handle this story?

EDIT: Yes I have completed the EE, and please don't avoid my specific questions.

I'm sorry I thought I answered your initial question.

You're basically saying that once Sam was sent to the Moon via MDT, she became omnipresent and decided to go back to the "Origin" and influence the O4+Maxis into freeing her from Agartha, then once that was done, she was transported back in time to a time prior to her being transported into Agartha via the MDT and that Richtofen also came back with her as a child?

But, if she was successful, she was never transported in the first place, thus she would have no way nor reason to influence people in the past to free her since she was never imprisoned. Also, how did Richtofen magically be transported as well?

Well, sort of. We know the events leading up to Richtofen and Sam switching bodies during the events of Moon, and that was the last that we saw her. From there she ended up in Agartha, but how still remains unclear. Perhaps when she died her soul traveled there, or maybe something they did on Moon caused her to travel there, who knows. What we do know is that Samantha ended up in Agartha, she was trapped there, and that Maxis wanted to get her out.

And the only way to get her out was to open the dimensional gateway itself. But that would not be possible without going back to 1918 in Northern France, where 115 and the gateway was first discovered by Maxis and Richtofen. And if Maxis is to go back to 1918 free her, he must gain the power of the Aether to do so. That's what all of the BO2 easter eggs were about. He needed pawns to power the towers, manipulating the ethereal energy of the earth in order to take control. We saw that he accomplished this at the end of the Buried, and gained this energy to open the gateway.

The next map after Buried, we have Samantha talking to us directly about opening up the gateway, telling us to follow the steps that she heard from her father. This is no coincidence. This is because Origins directly follows Buried, which followed Die Rise, which followed TranZit. Although the time periods of the maps have been erratic, the timeline of events have directly followed the maps release dates: TranZit, Die Rise, Buried, Origins.

So to sum up your question, it is not exactly Samantha going back in time to Origins to contact the O4, but more Maxis bringing us back to the point where it all began. I know , it's complicated, but it all comes down to how the connection between Aether and Agartha works.

I know, everyone's confused. How could Maxis just be some drone? We know he was a human being during the Der Riese time. Well, Mob of the Dead. The key is Mob of the Dead. Recall MotD. It was New Years Eve 1933, and we had 4 mobsters who were trying to build a makeshift plane to escape Alcatraz. Yet while completing the EE, we learned that in reality the mobsters never escaped and that Ferguson was never killed. There was in fact TWO timelines: one where they don't build the plane and Al dies, and the one we play during the map. It is the events of the EE that broke the cycle, and rewrote history. Al lives, escapes the island, write the comic book, so on.

Now apply this same reason to Origins. We had the original reality: Maxis and Richtofen go on to work in 935 the 40's, go to the Moon, Sam gets stuck in Aether, Richtofen takes over the world, etc. And we have the new reality, taking place during the events of Origins as we rewrite history to stop those things from happening in the first place. The question is where did the break in the cycle begin from the original reality and the new reality being written during Origins.

I've been saying this forever, but I can't stress how crucial it is to follow the chain of events of the time travelers, and not try to follow historical dates.in the original 1918, Samantha never contacted Maxis to get her out because she had not yet been born, right? Right, but after she is born, trapped in the pyramid, sent to Agartha, etc, she goes BACK to 1918 France and starts contacting Maxis, eventually leading to his death and switch to a robot.

Original timeline - 1918 France happened, but Maxis is never contacted by Sam, he isn't turned into a robot, gpes onto start 935 up again in 1940, and all the events as we know it take place, Sam ends up in Agartha

New timeline being written - travel back to France 1918, but Sam contacts Maxis this time to get her out, Richtofen thinks maxis is going crazy, maxis brain is removed and put into a robot etc., O4 take over helping free Samantha, she escapes and maxis reunites with her, fixes the massive paradox that they have caused and travels back to a point in time, which end up being 1942. We know for sure it's 1942 because of the presence of Fluffy and Samantha's estimated age.

So why travel back to this point in time? Well, we've all picked up on the importance of the last few sentences of the cutscene. If it were not for these last couple sentences, I would be sold on "it's just a game."

"I wish the heroes in our story were real Sam". What interests me about this is Eddie doesn't say I wish our STORY was real, but that our HEROES our real. But why? I'm under the impression that zombies are actually real in this final cutscene, which is why Eddie was wishing that the heroes were real so there could be someone to kill all the zombies.

"I know what you mean, but we will make everything okay. My dad says he has a plan.". So what plan? Well, the plan he originally devised in the first place, a group of super soldiers that could be brainwashed and follow commands at will: Takeo, Nikolai, and Tank. The plan is to end the zombie outbreak from occurring in the first place.

But wait, wouldn't that just result in the same thing happening, with Richtofen taking over the world, trapping Sam, etc. Well, this time around, Richtofen has been taken out of the picture, sorta. In this new timeline, Richtofen's body is much different. He is now back to an young, uncorrupted "Eddie". When Origins finished, the O4's souls were sent back to the same point in time, 1942. But while the O3 got placed in the right bodies, Richtofen got placed in a different body to stop his plans from ever occurring.

     The fact is, the events of Origins directly follow Buried in terms of the EE. It is hard to ignore this fact and say it never happened. At least for me, it's just too obvious to not pay attention to.

Personally, I think you can take the ending cutscene one of two ways: it was all real, or it was all fake. There is no inbetween really.

And I'll say right now it's totally possible it was all just a story told by Samantha. It could all just be a little girls imagination.

But I ask you this, so what? Are we still not storytellers? We are now simply retelling the story we once heard, by a sick and twisted little girl with a wild imagination. In the end, it is irrelevant if the story is true or not, but rather how good the story was. And in the last 3+ years, we have told one incredibly badass, and highly complex story.

Whatever the final cutscene means, we all deserve a pat on the back for the story we have written over the last 3 years. It's been one hell of a ride.

[InfestLithium]

Shooter, you could not have better summarized what was exactly running through my head the last couple of days. Even wrote a small theory on the events of such a cycle occurring.

A million brains to you, friendo.

[ETEl2NAL407]

That does make sense, Shooter. Another million brains for that "summary".

Maybe I could offer a bit more to the Richtofen/Eddie ocurrence.

We know that Richotfen inhabited Sam's body, therefore he acquired youth. When Sam was freed from Agartha, Richtofen came with her. She simply separated herself and basically created a fraternal twin with Richtofen's mind securely fastened inside the other body.

This could explain Eddie and why he exhbits mental characteristics of Richtofen (blue eyes), but also, the 1918 Richtofen would have vanished because as the O3 were placed back into their 1942 bodies basically with brand new minds, Richtofen would not have that as a possibility since his future timeline ended with him in Sam's body. The 1942 Richtofen, spawned from the 1918 Richtofen, would have simply vanished, which is exactly what ended up happening to him anyways.

This is why the new vessel for Richtofen's mind (Eddie, the Sam twin) still has some characteristics of Richtofen, but hasn't truly experienced the path of Richtofen post-1918.

This could very well work...

I want to take this time to set the record straight about my thoughts recently. I am in no way upset about the cutscene, as it's been brought to my attention that many think I am, but I have been vehemently defending it because that theory had very few damning holes. I want to poke holes in theories brought up by other users when I feel it's necessary because without someone to condemn your thoughts, you won't have different ones. So, it's not that I am upset with the story or with any of you, I just want us to get this right and that has meant that I have to take the unsavory position of denying everything until it fits together better.

So far, Shooter's last comment has been the only one I've seen that was close to nailing this. There are still some unanswered questions about Maxis and his physical self vs. the mechanical drone we last saw him inhabit, but Grill has actually discovered that he was speaking through electronics in the cutscene, so it's very possible he has not been reanimated into a body and those questions are answered as a result.

I've born the brunt of many users' feelings over the last couple weeks and it was disconcerting, but my ultimate hope is that we all unite to figure this out entirely, thus the reasoning behind me seeming to condemn every theory offered so far. Discovery doesn't happen without a disbeliever to make the theorists work harder. I've taken that role recently and though it has upset some of you, I can't abandon it.

Thanks Shooter for explaning this clearly and to the everyone else, though you may have had the same thoughts, unfortunately they were lost to me in trasnmission. It's becoming a bit clearer now, though.