Who is Samantha?

[AlphaSnake]

Okay, I was just playing Origins getting all the Wind Staff pieces.

While in the last Robot the one near the church I was listening to Maxis.

He said that he has no daughter. That he is losing his mind.

9Pg4AuL6qN8

Last Transmission. Thanks ZombieGK.

So this begs the question: Who is Samantha?

Well we know this map is the Origins of Modern Zombies.

Why is Sam trapped in the Aether in Origins in the first place?

It doesn't seem that she traveled back in time in this instance.

So what is going on here?

I don't think we are dealing with a little girl at all.

She is trying to get the team to release her by completing a task that was started along time ago.

How could she possible know this? Maxis is not her father so we can't trust what she says about Maxis.

I believe she has Maxis under her spell, this is the very reason Richtofen had to do what he did to Maxis. It was the only way to save his mind.

So how can Maxis be alive in 1945 Der Riese?

Well if Sam isn't who she says she is then what are we dealing with here?

I think Sam is the real demon, not just a child possessed by the Demon/Entity/Devil. But the actual Devil himself in the disguise of a little girl.

We're talking creepy horror style little demon girl here.

I think about 5,000-10,000 years ago the Agarthian high priests/Wizards trapped Satans/Lucifers/Devils essence in the crazy place under the mound.

Group935, Dr Maxis & Dr Richtofen released Sam into the Modern world.

Sam/The Devil has power over life & death, she can restore anyone at anytime she pleases.

Perhaps she escapes from Origins & brings Maxis back from the dead to use as her puppet.

Driven from France Sam plays a waiting game until she can get Maxis to replicate the dig site from Origns. That would be Der Riese.

Sam is an eternal child, she is fake.

This is how she knows of the other like the Tranzit crew, the JFK crew, COTD & MOTD crews.

Sam/Satan is Omnipresent.

As Richtofen followed the same path into Sams body then he takes the same powers as Sam.

Could he then have played the same trick of becoming a child to enter into Maxis inner circle as a mole of sorts?

Oh, this also proves that this is not really the true Origins of zombies as per finish something started a long time ago by Sam & also the ancient picture of the four holding staffs.

I think with the Templar crusader knights involved, we may be going to Jerusalem at some point, dome of the rock. The Templar's found something under the temple & removed it away to France, after they were attack by the king of France they relocated to Scotland, there is a church there with conspiracies around it. Rosslyn Chapel it is said that there are great vaults containing the power & wealth of the Freemasons who are the Templar's of old.

Also I was looking at their eyes they actually look blue to me. Can anyone confirm this for me? If so this could mean Aether Richtofen was also trapped in the mound/crazy place. If they are purple who is in control of them?

They don't cry Sam like the others, they simply growl at you.

Let me know what you lot think & where the leaks need plugging.

Finally get this:

Sam, where have we all heard that before?

Son of Sam.

'Upon questioning, Berkowitz explained that Sam was a 6,000-year-old man inhabiting the body of a Yonkers neighbor, Sam Carr, who supposedly transmitted commands to the killer via the family's Labrador retriever.'

The Son of Sam was a serial killer with Satanic cult ties.

4000 bc is Egypt/Atlantis/Hyperborea/Agartha/Lemuria.

At first I was thinking could the Demon that is Sam be Lilith. That puts us around at around 1894 bc or 3907 years ago.

Personally I don't think it is Lilith, who was the fifth wife of Satan.

Regards Alpha.

[FatedTitan]

Or Origins could all be the creation of a little girl and boy.

I mean we have the beginning cut scene of the Sam starting the story then the ending of her ending the story, or Origins at least. Not to mention all of the things inconsistencies within Origins.

I don't want to argue what we've had before is real or not. But I just don't see Origins as real in any way. If so, they gave a giant finger to a lot of previously established story.

[MysteryMachineX]

Good post, Alpha. Lots of thought-provoking stuff.

I think that this is Samantha from Moon, but that's just me. There's no direct evidence per say, but there is a lot of indirect evidence. For one, she knows a lot of stuff about the main characters that she shouldn't otherwise know. Two, she says she's been in there "a long time". She says she has seen the past and the future. And she talks often a loop.

But here's some things you might find interesting. Tank, Nikolai, and Maxis are eager to free her, although sometimes her anger can be off-putting to them. Takeo is apprehensive about her true nature. "Are you an angel? Or a demon?" (something like that) Richtofen out-right distrusts her, going as far as to say that Agartha is just a myth and isn't real (despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.)

The thing is, to me, any demonic traits she might have are indistinguishable from the Samantha we know and love, as Samantha was quite demonic herself.

[Stop Mocking Me0]

To be honest the whole thing is quite awful, not you alpha, (this is the 3rd most solid theory I've heard), the map.... To be frank, there is NO way for any of origins to make sense with the rest of the map... That's why many theories have to do with paradoxes and alternate universes.... The facts don't match up... I mean look: ALPHA has turned to the demonic basis that zombies was BUILT off of. And even THEN it's farfetched!

Trayarch COULD have just told us what happened AFTER the events of moon but NNNNOOOOOO.... Robots, paradoxes, and out-of-place-in-the-storyline map.... :roll:

[MysteryMachineX]

To be honest the whole thing is quite awful, not you alpha, (this is the 3rd most solid theory I've heard), the map.... To be frank, there is NO way for any of origins to make sense with the rest of the map... That's why many theories have to do with paradoxes and alternate universes.... The facts don't match up... I mean look: ALPHA has turned to the demonic basis that zombies was BUILT off of. And even THEN it's farfetched!

Trayarch COULD have just told us what happened AFTER the events of moon but NNNNOOOOOO.... Robots, paradoxes, and out-of-place-in-the-storyline map.... :roll:

Paradoxes are not unique to Origins. Time Bomb anyone?

[AlphaSnake]

@Fatedtitan. You still think Sam is just a little girl then.

If you believe that then everything is just in her head...

Sorry I just don't buy that.

No little girl has an imagination that vivid. If it was all sweet then yes maybe. But Origins is dark.

If you accept that Sam is Satan, everything starts to make sense.

Sam is only present after they break into the mound, she was sealed in an Agarthian trap made possible by the Ancient Staffs. They are the key to unlocking thus they were used to seal Sam in the mound in the first place.

Maxis was on to what she was, so she started to turning him.

Richtofen saved Maxis from Sam.

However as they are now using 115 they would start to lose their memories.

Sam takes advantage of this & turns the team to her own agenda.

Sam is not what she claims to be.

You can't trust her as the story teller.

Sorry MMX I'll get back to you I was writing this as you relied.

Regards Alpha.

[Stop Mocking Me0]

To be honest the whole thing is quite awful, not you alpha, (this is the 3rd most solid theory I've heard), the map.... To be frank, there is NO way for any of origins to make sense with the rest of the map... That's why many theories have to do with paradoxes and alternate universes.... The facts don't match up... I mean look: ALPHA has turned to the demonic basis that zombies was BUILT off of. And even THEN it's farfetched!

Trayarch COULD have just told us what happened AFTER the events of moon but NNNNOOOOOO.... Robots, paradoxes, and out-of-place-in-the-storyline map.... :roll:

Paradoxes are not unique to Origins. Time Bomb anyone?

Ay, but before they were obvious and resolved... The shangri-la one, the buried one, but... NOW!... It's quite hidden and in no way fixed to our understanding....

[Stop Mocking Me0]

@Fatedtitan. You still think Sam is just a little girl then.

If you believe that then everything is just in her head...

Sorry I just don't buy that.

No little girl has an imagination that vivid. If it was all sweet then yes maybe. But Origins is dark.

If you accept that Sam is Satan, everything starts to make sense.

Sam is only present after they break into the mound, she was sealed in an Agarthian trap made possible by the Ancient Staffs. They are the key to unlocking thus they were used to seal Sam in the mound in the first place.

Maxis was on to what she was, so she started to turning him.

Richtofen saved Maxis from Sam.

However as they are now using 115 they would start to lose their memories.

Sam takes advantage of this & turns the team to her own agenda.

Sam is not what she claims to be.

You can't trust her as the story teller.

Sorry MMX I'll get back to you I was writing this as you relied.

Regards Alpha.

In his deffence this IS a little girl who has:

Been subject to numorous murders and HUNDREDS of zombie deaths...

In an all-powerful vrill-device

has had her own father killed TWICE before right in front of her (der reise and moon, three if you count buried)

Was subject to richtofen's tests

and has had her soul swapped with her "uncle" richtofen....

That may be a BIT much of a negative influence on a child...

[AlphaSnake]

I point you back to the Maxis transmission.

She isn't his Daughter.

Why would she imagine that?

Regards Alpha.

[InfestLithium]

Good stuff - I love seeing the ties with Satanism and something far more sinister that a girl. While I don't follow suit with Samantha fully being some sort of demon, I will for the sake of argument in this thread.

What I find fascinating is how she is able to hit the core of each character. While you're in Zombie Blood, she talks to a character and basically puts them on a guilt trip along with their "mini biographies" that are supposed to make them feel superior of their persona while she mocks them for not releasing her. The one I always remember is Samantha telling Takeo that the way of the samurai, his culture, his heritage, his honor will diminish and fade to black while the traditions are being lost. He then says something along the lines of her speaking his soul.

But I will say this: she is not the same little German girl that we knew in the recordings prior to her residing in the MPD. What was in that pyramid that she claimed was so evil and monolithic that even made her fear it? Whatever it was, it became instilled in her.

Origins is not a separate reality but rather the past altered. She was never meant to have existed in that timeframe. Hence, why Maxis says he has no such daughter. It's not because he doesn't recognize her or he never had Samantha. Rather, it is because she became a part of a time period in which she was not born yet. That interference alone screwed up what once was into something that should have never been.

May I add a notation to the Zombie Blood reference once more? When in that, she will often say hints towards the steps of the Easter Egg in a very demonic voice. She never sounds like this outside of Zombie Blood. Ancient Evil being a part - or even a whole - of her? I do say yes. I would even go as far as saying that she became integrated with the Ancient Evil which forces me to assume that the insidious entity does dwell in Agartha. Because Samantha has apparently ended up in there, it could be very well possible that they inhabit the same soul; the Ancient Evil going into her or her going into the Ancient Evil.

This is what struck me though: why would Samantha talk in two different vocal tones yet consist of the same point of being released? Simple. While she wants to become free of Agartha and freely go back to a world where everything is okay and all this destruction is just a game to her, there is also another motive. Samantha uses the O4 to free her and the Ancient Evil does exactly the same. Who would not feel any need to help a little girl that "just wants to go home"?

That's what is has been all along. Samantha intervening in time is the catalyst. In easier terms, she was the key to the door. And now, the Ancient Evil has a way into control once more. But sharing power is a difficult task, so someone needs to be released. And we know for certain that Samantha just wants to make everything seem like a fictional tale to herself.

The Ancient Evil wants in on it too, though. It uses Samantha to be released. That being said, we aren't just releasing Samantha from Agartha - we are also releasing the Ancient Evil into our world. Could it be that even in Agartha, only one entity can have the power? With Samantha soon out of the equation, it looks like the throne belongs to the Ancient Evil.

But wait. That means the Ancient Evil would also retain its power over the zombies to some extent.

And would you guess what that Ancient Evil may have been?

Lucifer a.k.a. Satan.

Now try and look at Mob of the Dead. It was a cycle, but not just one.

It's far-fetched, but the arrows match up a little too perfectly. There are a great deal of conclusions on what can be made of Samantha.

[Stop Mocking Me0]

Perhaps this Samantha and the sam in the real world aren't the same...

maybe this is just the land of the dead of some sorts...

The ancient evil...

The sane richtofen...

The calm tank...

The wise nikolai...

The balanced takeo...

The recently-defeated-maxis...

Oh to hear Samantha get in a fight with american-Samantha!

[AlphaSnake]

Good post Lithium.

The only problem I have is that Richtofen is now in the Pyramid on Moon.

Does that not mean that Richtofen should technically be in control here? (Or is he now stuck in Samuel in Buried?)

The Black Pyramid would still be on the Moon even in 1918.

If whoever is in the body of Sam in the present should be in control.

How is Sam all sweet sounding?

The Sam on Moon is pretty twisted. A far cry from the Sweet little Sam we talk to in Origins.

I think the Entity that is Sam, is playing on the hearts of the soldiers by presenting herself as a little girl.

As you pointed out she says things that put some of the team off.

She has me thinking about paranormal activity 1,2,3 & 4.

I understand what your saying about Maxis not knowing his own daughter before she was born. However that means that Maxis would have to somehow be revived. Not quite sure how that would go down with the future Mrs Maxis, the mother of Sam.

Remember we never really found out who Sam's mother was did we?

Is it because she never existed in the first place?

Here is that Maxis Transmission;

"The Child's voice calls to me more frequently than ever, at first she spoke only of her imprisonment in a mythical realm known as Agartha, now she claims to be my daughter, even though I know no such child exists. I fear my sanity maybe slipping away from me"

At first she only spoke of her imprisonment...

If she was really Maxis' daughter freshly trapped in the Pyramid, don't you think if she some how managed to find her dad, that the first thing she would do is cry for her daddy to help her?

Only when her attempts to sway Maxis failed did she begin to say she was his daughter.

Also:

The names of the Ultimate Staffs are another clue.

Kimat's Bite Lightening. Kadaklan Dog Tribal myth Ancient source.

Kagutsuchi's Blood Fire. Japanese creation myth Ancient source. Jomon period 14,000 bc to 300bc, Yayoi 300bc to 300ad, Kofun 250ad+

Ull's Arrow Ice. 100bc Roman records on Germanic folk lore

Boreas Fury Wind. Northern wind Greek God Ancient Greece, 800bc - 600ad possible links to Hyperborea.

I struggled to find this info with two search engines & the whole internet.

How the F would a little girl know all this?

Did Maxis explain all this to Sam? When the hell did he get the time to do that then?

The only way for Sam to have this degree of ancient historical knowledge is if she was there herself when they were created & used to imprison her oh so long ago.

Personally I think we're looking at around 100bc-100ad.

If Sam was ever a real girl she was lost long ago.

Regards Alpha.

[Rissole25]

I had to keep rewriting this because I kept finding more questions. So I'll keep it short because I'll write a billion questions. I still think Samantha is Maxis daughter. But because he hadn't had her back than, obviously it would seem crazy to him. Somehow, her being trapped in Agartha in Buried, has gotta be linked to her being trapped in Origins.

So how exactly can Samantha communicate with us? I thought Agartha was a city within the earth's core. It seems like a realm or dimension. Is it left over power from when she was in the M.P.D. that causes us to hear her perhaps?

Ughhhhh Origins is a clusterbomb of confusion...

Just some things to note. The Announcer sounds like Sam's smoker voice in the first intro trailer before her voice was changed. I'm not sure if that means anything. If it means she's sending the zombies here. Just something to note. I'm not sure why they changed it if it is her. Perhaps to give a feminine touch perhaps?

Perhaps the voice change for Sam's actual voice is also something notable? Perhaps she lost her accent over time? Though the cutscene screws that if that takes place before all the maps.

Also something to note, the box moving laugh sounds like a distorted and sped up version of Richtofens laugh. I'm not sure why. Maybe I'm hearing wrong lol.

[Slade]

Great thread, Alpha!

Very very interesting.

Maxis is aware of the Paradox, I did not expect that. His Drone/Announcer quotes will be up shortly, will edit.

-Heather

[Naitrax]

Just some things to note. The Announcer sounds like Sam's smoker voice in the first intro trailer before her voice was changed. I'm not sure if that means anything. If it means she's sending the zombies here. Just something to note. I'm not sure why they changed it if it is her. Perhaps to give a feminine touch perhaps?

Perhaps the voice change for Sam's actual voice is also something notable? Perhaps she lost her accent over time? Though the cutscene screws that if that takes place before all the maps.

Also something to note, the box moving laugh sounds like a distorted and sped up version of Richtofens laugh. I'm not sure why. Maybe I'm hearing wrong lol.

This could be an alternate reality where Samantha's mother was American, and she was bought up in America. This would also explain Eddie having an American accent...

[Wooodd]

Excellent post Alpha,

I remember hearing Richtofen in Origins say something along the lines of "I know what you really are" to Samantha at some point in the game. I've heard it a few times, whilst in Zombie Blood as Richtofen. This does back up your theory quite well. ZombieGK, your a quotation machine, do you have this quote down? I'm pretty sure it was in Zombie Blood.

The different accents have got me though. Being around for several millennia you would witness countless different accents and dialects, however if you were a greater being such as Satan and are truly omnipresent there is no way such a fundamental part of your facade wouldn't be spot-on at all times.

My current thinking is that the Samantha in Origins is Satan, The Devil, Beelzebub, a Demon, Vonderhaar, whatever were referring to the greater evil as these days. Upon her/him/it encountering Maxis she/he/I/they (stuff it, for arguments sake I'll keep it as she and call her Satantha) saw an opportunity and attempted to persuade him to help her. After failing the O4 then came along and succeeded where Maxis could not, and freed Satantha, in a sense.

Satantha was able to place herself in a time-frame alongside Maxis as his daughter years later, after Maxis was re-implanted into a new body by Richtofen. The fact that we never hear of Samantha's Mother could well be because there is no Mother, in essence there is no Samantha.

With regards to the rest of the story from here I'm drawn to Satantha just happening to end up on Moon and just getting 'caught' by the MPD at the right time to enter it. This may not have been accidental, the MDP could hold the key to a larger plan for Satantha but not being corporeal before now she never had the means to enter it. If the MPD is the gateway to Agartha, could Satantha benefit from gaining access to it? We don't know that she is in Agartha in Origins, other than if we take her word for it, yeah right. Her plan could have been to escape "Hell" and gain access to Agartha all along.

I can see there are holes in this train of thought, such as why would she respond to Maxis from inside the MPD if he was of no use to her anymore, but its a work in progress.

Anyway, great thread Alpha, just as thought provoking as ever.

[FatedTitan]

Why Origins Doesn't Add Up

Shown to be a story told be Samantha to her friend Eddie.

Samantha has a body...How would she find a body if she was just a demon, or Satan even?

Maxis' brain is in a robot on Origins...not so much any other time

Maxis' recognition that Samantha is his daughter

I just can't see Origins, the map, being real. I'm still entertaining the possibility that the end cutscene is the actual beginning, but I'm still not positive. I'm still not completely against it all being made up, since we have the toys from all the maps, movie posters from maps, zombie action figures from maps, and the MPD is a metaphorical "talking stick" for who gets to tell the story. Is it a coincidence that Sam has two times as many hash marks as Eddie and she's been in control two times as many games? (WaW and BO vs BO2)

There's just too much in Origins that doesn't correlate with what we already know. Unless we're doing some heavy retconning, then I just don't buy much of Origins itself.

[sh3baproject]

this is interesting my friend. i personally believe zombies was a cycle that we broke. it explains a lot for me,and i am content with being a cycle. to me,until we chose to help sam,the cycle keeps going. of course this idea has flaws,but no idea is flawless.

I see why many people assume origins does not correlate. to me,until we get a direct answer from trollarch or someone explains it so well the majority will agree with him,then we should count origins as part of the story. just me though,you dont have to,but ask yourself this: why make a finale that makes no sense or has no connection to the story? that would make less sense then selling something valuble to you,like your's grandfather's rifle. :|

[AlphaSnake]

I'll answer more fully later.

For now, think about it like this if you believe it it all just a story a little girl is telling to Eddie, then please explain how Sam knows of JFK, Nixon, Mcnamara & Castro?

Did she just make that up?

What about Call of the Dead? Did she make that one up also.

Sorry I'm not being harsh.

The fact is all the theories are full of holes.

The fun lies in trying to make some kind of sense to it all.

If your not having fun figuring things out I really don't know what to say.

I don't want to waste my time flogging a dead horse.

I believe Sam isn't what she says she is.

The other possibility is that Sam is actually a powerful psychic, born from a mother who was a member of the Vril society. She could be a remote viewer.

Let me try to broaden your mind a little:

Lets take a look at Paranormal Activity 3 for a second.

Paranormal Activity 3 is a 2011 American supernatural horror film, directed by Henry Joost and Ariel Schulman. It is the third installment of the Paranormal Activity series and serves as a prequel, mostly set 18 years prior to the events of the first two films.

In 2005, Katie delivers a box of old videotapes to her pregnant sister Kristi, and her husband Daniel. A year later, Kristi and Daniel's house is ransacked and the tapes are missing.

The tapes hold footage of a young Katie and Kristi with their mother Julie, and her boyfriend Dennis, in 1988.

Kristi begins interacting with an invisible friend named Toby. Dennis notices that since Kristi's friend appeared, strange things have been happening in the house.

Dennis and Julie try to make a sex tape, but are interrupted by an earthquake. The camera shows dust fall from the ceiling and land onto an invisible figure in the room. While reviewing the footage, Dennis notices the strange incident. His friend Randy suggests that Dennis place cameras throughout the house to capture any other incidents.

That night in the girls' bedroom, Kristi wakes up and talks to someone off-camera. When Dennis questions her the following day, Kristi tells him it was Toby. After more strange occurrences, Dennis discovers a strange symbol in the girls' closet. He finds the same symbol in a book about demonology.

When Kristi falls ill, Julie and Dennis take her to the hospital. Katie is left home with Randy, and they play Bloody Mary in the girls' bathroom. When nothing happens, Katie insists they try again. Randy is attacked and discovers a large scratch on his torso. They try to leave the bathroom but a black figure moves past the door.

When they try to leave a second time, furniture is violently flung across the room. After Julie and Dennis return, Randy hurriedly leaves, stating that whatever they're dealing with is dangerous.

Dennis tells Julie that the symbol belonged to a witches' coven that brainwashed girls of child-bearing age into having sons, forcing them to give up their sons; they would not remember anything afterward. Julie dismisses his claim, instead arguing with Dennis.

The invisible demon terrorizes Katie and Kristi, harming Katie until Kristi agrees to do what it asks. The next day, Kristi asks her mother to take them to her grandmother Lois's home, but she refuses.

After Julie encounters frightening activity herself, she agrees to go to Lois's home. Dennis sets up another camera in their new bedroom. At 1am, they are woken and hear disturbances. Julie goes to investigate; when she fails to return, Dennis goes to look for her.

He calls for Julie and the girls but there is no answer. Downstairs, Dennis notices a human silhouette behind a curtain, but when he looks there, no one is present. He finds strange imagery on the walls, including the symbol from the girls' room, which had been concealed behind paintings.

Dennis enters the garage and discovers several women, including Lois, all dressed in dark clothing. He flees back to the house, with the women in slow pursuit. In the house, he finds Julie at the top of the stairs.

As he approaches, he sees that her limp body is levitating above the floor. Her body is thrown at Dennis, knocking him down the stairs. He gets up and sees Kristi, hiding with her in a closet. Something growls and bangs on the door, but eventually leaves.

Dennis and Kristi leave the closet and walk through the **** please report this topic, post ****. In the window, Dennis sees the women outside in the garden, circling around a bonfire. They find Katie crying by the stairs near Julie's body. Dennis approaches Katie from behind, and places his hand on her shoulder.

Katie turns and unleashes a demonic scream that throws him to the other side of the room, injuring his leg. Katie flees and Dennis tries to crawl toward Julie's body. Lois blocks him, and Dennis's body is suddenly violently contorted, snapping backwards, killing him. Lois then beckons to Kristi and Katie. As they head upstairs together, Kristi calls to Toby to come join them. The camera goes static and cuts to black.

The Demon that possesses Katie then becomes dormant over the next 18 years.

Katie returns to being a seemingly normal woman in the early part of Paranormal Activity 1 the next film in the series.

Only after the strange events begin again does the evil force manage to repossess Katie.

My point is these sort of events can come & go.

Sam is very much like Katie.

Not sure that makes sense now.

Regards Alpha.

[FatedTitan]

I understand what you're saying. How about this though. I talked with some people right when Origins came out and this always was an interesting theory I heard.

What if the cutscene at the end, Samantha and Eddie in her room, was in the Aether. Samantha, being a god of sorts, contorted this sphere to be exactly how she wanted it to be. She's the god of it. She controls what happens. So when she's playing with her action figures, as we see in the cut scene, it's like she's actually playing in the real world what is happening. She's causing it. The MPD is like a talking stick, where the one who is given control takes over what happens in our story.

So in a way, is what is happening from WaW through Buried actually happening? Yes. But it's still being persuaded by this little girl playing with her toys. It's not in her mind, per say. It's actually happening. It's just like she's in another dimension(Aether) affecting everything that is happening in our dimension.

How much knowledge she would have that she is actually effecting it is debatable.

And sadly, while that sounds really good(at least in my mind), I could substitute Aether as the real world and our dimension as her imagination and that explanation would be the exact same thing.

I'll be honest I really don't have a good answer. Origins just doesn't add up for me with so much of what they introduced not correlating or working with what we've previously known(retcon?). I don't know if everything is real or if everything is fake. But I do know this.

What happens to the T4 after Buried? What happens to the O4 after Moon? Will we see them in their older forms again? Will the T4 die or will Richtofen/Maxis use them in some way as Maxis attempts to enter Agartha and Richtofen is all powerful?

We have so many plotlines left unanswered. We have so much that has been left with a cliff hanger. So whether it's real or not, there is still more to our story left to be told. And I'm okay with that.

[AlphaSnake]

I understand what you're saying. How about this though. I talked with some people right when Origins came out and this always was an interesting theory I heard.

What if the cutscene at the end, Samantha and Eddie in her room, was in the Aether. Samantha, being a god of sorts, contorted this sphere to be exactly how she wanted it to be. She's the god of it. She controls what happens. So when she's playing with her action figures, as we see in the cut scene, it's like she's actually playing in the real world what is happening. She's causing it. The MPD is like a talking stick, where the one who is given control takes over what happens in our story.

Yup I feel this, like in Jason & the Argonauts/Clash of the Titans/Wrath of the Titans/ the Gods playing with chess pieces that are titans & Humans.

So in a way, is what is happening from WaW through Buried actually happening? Yes. But it's still being persuaded by this little girl playing with her toys. It's not in her mind, per say. It's actually happening. It's just like she's in another dimension(Aether) affecting everything that is happening in our dimension.

I can see your point, she has the ability to control her reality to a degree, but she is still trapped showing that her power do have certain limits. Sort of like the Q from Star Trek (Man I'm such a geek :?)

How much knowledge she would have that she is actually effecting it is debatable.

I believe there are quotes indicating that Sam had a window into Richtofen's mind. She could have gain all his knowledge this way, possibly Maxis too. Anyone she has killed & becomes a zombie, she is there chipping away at their minds. Tormenting them as we hear when in Zombie blood. How many souls has Sam taken? Thousands? Millions over the centuries? She would be a Rosetta stone of information.

And sadly, while that sounds really good(at least in my mind), I could substitute Aether as the real world and our dimension as her imagination and that explanation would be the exact same thing.

Or she is reading a kick arse comic book about zombies.

I'll be honest I really don't have a good answer. Origins just doesn't add up for me with so much of what they introduced not correlating or working with what we've previously known(retcon?). I don't know if everything is real or if everything is fake. But I do know this.

I know how you feel, I've been here many many times, just give it time. Answers will come eventually. We need to hear all the quotes, I'm waiting on all Maxis drone quotes & Sam's/the announcers full dialogue, Zombie blood quotes.

What happens to the T4 after Buried? What happens to the O4 after Moon? Will we see them in their older forms again? Will the T4 die or will Richtofen/Maxis use them in some way as Maxis attempts to enter Agartha and Richtofen is all powerful?

Black Ops 3 is all I can say. If it is the last chapter in the Black Ops Trilogy then BO3 is the perfect place to end this story once & for all. Don't get me wrong I think the next COD title Treyarch do after BO3 should have Zombies, but with a new Era & console platforms they should do a full reboot of the Zombies storyline.

We have so many plot lines left unanswered. We have so much that has been left with a cliff hanger. So whether it's real or not, there is still more to our story left to be told. And I'm okay with that.

All the more ways to take the story. Zombies is a mystery in itself, I've never been able to fully explain everything. If I could I would have become bored with it a long time ago. Its the twists that keep you on your toes.

That's me in red above.

Just give it a little time, the answers will come.

Regards Alpha.

[PINNAZ]

I apologize in advance for not being on topic, but this post is mainly directed at AlphaSnake. I didn't want to create a thread, so I thought this was the best place based on the following quote.

I think with the Templar crusader knights involved, we may be going to Jerusalem at some point, dome of the rock. The Templar's found something under the temple & removed it away to France, after they were attack by the king of France they relocated to Scotland, there is a church there with conspiracies around it. Rosslyn Chapel it is said that there are great vaults containing the power & wealth of the Freemasons who are the Templar's of old.

These are some of things that Iv'e been looking into . Most of this can be found from hints in Buried. I actually started backtracking from the "Black Sun Symbol" & came across most of this before Origins came out, but I thought I was way off the mark.

Links are in the title's.

Jacob Grimm - Teutonic Mythology

Runes

Runestone

Poetic Edda

Prose Edda

Yggdrasil - Grimm's Fairy Tales has a single tree on the cover

Rosslyn Chapel

Author Henning Klovekorn has proposed that the pillar is representative of one of the roots of the Nordic Yggdrasil tree, prominent in Germanic and Norse mythology. He compares the dragons at the base of the pillar to the dragons found eating away at the base of the Yggdrasil root and, pointing out that at the top of the pillar is carved tree foliage, argues that the Nordic/Viking association is plausible considering the many auxiliary references in the chapel to Celtic and Norse mythology.

Tacitus

These next links must have a lot to do with where we are going.

Christian Rosenkreuz

Rosicrucianism

Ancient Mystical Order Rosae Crucis

Rosenkreuz's crypt, according to the description presented in the legend, seems to be located in the interior parts of the Earth, recalling the alchemical motto VITRIOL: "Visita Interiora Terrae Rectificando Invenies Occultum Lapidem ("Visit the Interior Parts of the Earth; by Rectification Thou Shalt Find the Hidden Stone.")

The metaphorical nature of these legends lends a nebulous quality to the origins of Rosicrucianism. The opening of Rosenkreuz's tomb is thought to be a way of referring to the cycles in nature and to cosmic events; and as well, to the opening of new possibilities for mankind consequent on the advances of the 16th and early 17th centuries. Similarly, Rosenkreuz's pilgrimage seems to refer to the transmutation steps of the Great Work.

Similar legends may be found in Wolfram von Eschenbach's description of the Holy Grail as the "Lapis Exillis", guarded by the Knights Templar, or in the Philosophers' stone of the alchemists, the "Lapis Elixir".

Philosopher's stone

The theoretical roots outlining the stone’s creation can be traced to Greek philosophy. Alchemists later used the Classical elements, the concept of anima mundi, and Creation stories presented in texts like Plato’s Timaeus as analogies for their process. According to Plato, the four elements are derived from a common source or prima materia (first matter), associated with chaos. Prima materia is also the name alchemists assign to the starting ingredient for the creation of the philosopher’s stone. The importance of this philosophical first matter persisted through the history of alchemy. In the seventeenth century, Thomas Vaughan writes, “the first matter of the stone is the very same with the first matter of all things”.

Prima materia

Prima materia, materia prima or first matter, is the ubiquitous starting material required for the alchemical magnum opus and the creation of the philosopher's stone. It is the primitive formless base of all matter similar to chaos, the quintessence, or aether.

Alchemical emblem depicting the omnipresence of the philosophical matter. "The Stone that is Mercury, is cast upon the Earth, exalted on Mountains, resides in the Air, and is nourished in the Waters."

PRIMIS = FIRST

Chaos (cosmogony)

Chaos (Greek χάος, khaos) refers to the formless or void state preceding the creation of the universe or cosmos in the Greek creation myths, more specifically the initial "gap" created by the original separation of heaven and earth.

Some people that relate to Zombies associated with Rosicrucian

Edward Bulwer-Lytton - First mention of the Vril-ya

Michael Faraday - His Picture is found multiple times in Buried

Pigpen cipher

The pigpen cipher (sometimes referred to as the masonic cipher, Freemason's cipher, Rosicrucian cipher, or Tic-tac-toe cipher)

Cipher in Buried

Leon Battista Alberti

Alberti was active in Italian Freemasonry. This led him into a relationship with the Knights Templar that remains unclear. Historians speculate that he designed the Templar Cipher Disk and taught the Knights how to use it to secure their clandestine communications. Both devices work using the same principals.

Alberti cipher disk - Notice the use of "Runic letters" aswell

After Starting the Side Quest in Origins & in "Zombie Blood", you will see the "Runic" writings hinting at which Staff should go in which holder

MrRoflWaffles decoded Origins Ciphers Thread

Search for Agartha & Rosicrucian Order (Order of the Rose Cross)

Most things I search for always come back to

- Esotericism

(Examples of esoteric religious movements and philosophies include Alchemy, Astrology, Anthroposophy, early Christian Mysticism, Freemasonry, Gnosticism, Kabbalah, Neoplatonism, Magic, Merkabah mysticism, Mesmerism, Rosicrucianism, Taoism, Numerology, Swedenborgianism, Spiritualism, the Alawites, the Theosophy of Jacob Böhme and his followers, and the Theosophical revivalist movement associated with Helena Blavatsky.)

- Theosophy

- Theology

- Helena Blavatsky

I think these are the underlying lesson in Zombies.

That will do for now.

[Phat130y69ps4]

short and sweet I think same is his daughter but he has not had her yet. Once she goes to argatha she can be in any time. There fore be freed from any time as well. He says he dont have one because he does not YET. just my opinion I dont post much so dont kill me......KEEP SLAYIN!

[AlphaSnake]

Hmmm, I'm doubting myself a little on this one now.

Maybe it is our Sam.

I don't know, there is just something I can't put my finger on.

She just seems to know too much for just having been trapped in the Pyramid.

Is the knowledge gained over time or is it like a matrix upload?

The seal also bothers me.

Did the ancients go to all the trouble of sealing poor little Samantha inside the tomb that sits below the seal?

I think that this early on in Sam's story she may not be fully in control of herself.

I think maybe the entity is at it's strongest in terms of the influence it has over Sam. Then over time Sam gets mentally stronger being able to take back control.

Just for the sake of my own sanity, let me recap this.

The paradox starts in Der Riese 1945? Right.

Sam get transported to Moon & trapped in the pyramid.

At this point she becomes non linear in the timeline, having access to anywhere there is 115 (So it appears, also could be down to where ever or whenever a teleporter node is present Ancient or otherwise).

So with this power Sam takes herself to 1918 finds her dad, drives him insane to the point of almost dying. Enough that a young Richtofen had to remove his brain to save his mind.

SO, the paradox should be broken right here, but it isn't.

With Maxis' brain in the Maxis drone which then flew into the Aether.

The cycle should be broken if that is the case.

As we now have both Sam & Maxis in Aether the events of Der Riese will not come to pass.

This means no rocket attack from the Moon on Earth.

Everything from Nacht to Buried is contained within the now redundant timeline that is WAW, BOZ & BOIIZ.

The only exception is Mob of the Dead due to it happening before 1945, yet even MOTD isn't happening in what would be reality, I truly believe that MOTD is hell incarnate for the MOTD crew.

So back to origins then.

From what we know Maxis is back at work in Der Riese/Verruckt/Kino Sam is playing in her room telling the story of Origins to Eddie. As per the ending.

For this to be happening Maxis had to return to the real world in order to father Sam. He would then have had to tell her in great detail the story of Origins...

The big question this raises is, did Maxis tell Sam of her future self?

Again I problems here, the only way for this to be happening is for Maxis to have been successful in saving Sam from the Aether.

Where did she go to from there? Back to her old body trapped on the Moon?

Which I might add has been destroyed as per the asteroid field orbiting the Earth in the Zombies menu for BOIIZ.

.........

Great post Pinnaz.

A few pieces fell into place thanks to your contributions here, thank you for the info.

So far I've seen a Teutonic knight & Templar in the tunnels & the mound.

The mound dates to around 1350 ad based on the knights we seen in origins.

Plus that scroll of the four & the word Primis.

Some how I don't think this is the first not by a long shot.

Origins = Samantha's Origins, not the zombies.

The knights eyes are confirmed 100% blue = Aether Richotfen is back in 1096-1307 ad causing something to happen way back then.

The Agarthian Knights eyes are purple like I've said before that puts us way back to around 100bc-100ad & somebody we haven't seen is in control.

Right I'll stop rambling on.

Regards Alpha.

[Stop Mocking Me0]

Hmmm...

Purhaps this has to do a bit with pandora's box...

"And all that remained at the bottom of the box was... Hope..."

Purhaps this embodiment of hope is samantha, wanting to be released from her "box" ....